New RDM GearFollow

Oh look, DD pants finally!

Numen Staff and Strendu Ring looks interesting. The rest is same-old, same-old though.

Hyksos Robe
[Body]All Races
DEF:46 INT+12 CHR+12
Enhancing magic skill +10
Elemental magic skill +10
Summoning magic skill +10
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv.90 WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/PUP/SCH

Hyksos Robe +1
[Body]All Races
DEF:47 INT+13 CHR+13
Enhancing magic skill +11
Elemental magic skill +11
Summoning magic skill +11
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv.90 WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/PUP/SCH

Anhur Robe
[Body]All Races
DEF:48 INT+14 CHR+14
Enhancing magic skill +12
Elemental magic skill +12
Summoning magic skill +12
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Sphere: "Magic Atk. Bonus"+5
Set: Magic Accuracy+5
Lv.90 WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/PUP/SCH


These caught my eye as upgrades for enhancing magic in the body slot of Glamor Jupon's +3. The last two are also an upgrade over Augur's Jaseran for nuking, with more INT on the latter, but better accuracy overall. I'm gonna assume they're trialed through the VW system in some way.

As for the melee pants, while I wanna say FINALLY with not needing to blow an add-on item, -ACC is not something we need with our lower skill caps and otherwise lesser martial prowess. Probably workable in Abyssea just fine, but if there are things of difficulty elsewhere later, these won't really help our cause. I suppose now I need to weigh redoing ASA pants depending on how hard they are to get, but the Tatsus are also useful for me on SCH, BLM, and SMN.

Edited, May 9th 2011 6:12pm by Seriha

I missed a few juicy all jobs items:

Genesis Locket Rare Ex
Neck
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+5 Increases magic critical hit damage
LV 88 All Jobs

Impatiens Rare
Ammo
Spell interruption rate -10% Occ. quickens spellcasting +2%
LV 86 All Jobs

Oneiros Grip Rare Ex
Sub
Adds "Regen" effect Latent effect: Adds "Refresh" effect
LV 88 All Jobs

Roller's Ring Rare
Finger
HP+11 Latent effect: Adds "Refresh" and "Regain" effects
LV 86 All Jobs

Veisa Collar Rare
Neck
Physical damage taken -4%
LV 87 All Jobs

Edited, May 9th 2011 11:10pm by K1n371x

My only issue with



Is that every THF DRK BRD RNG DRG and most likely DNC will try to lot them, just for sh!ts. Getting melee gear on RDM is rare as is, it sucks when you have to compete with tons of other jobs that have better alternatives but still want to have it.

I'm just curious, are you suggesting ACC means nothing because of Abyssea atma's? Or just saying ACC has diminished returns and all jobs that have low skill in a weapon can wield it just fine? I'm seriously hoping you're not using Abyssea's uber buffs to argue this point.

As for what RDM needs, it's not more melee gear. You have to look at the game as a whole. Look at the useful mage classes in the game right now. BLM and WHM. The rest are just lost and useless. RDM can't nuke better than a SCH or BLM, can't heal better than a WHM, and our enfeebling skill is useless. As a matter of fact, we've done so many mega-bosses and even outside Abby stuff with no RDM enfeebles without missing a stroke. This is just sad and the answer to making RDM useful again isn't melee gear. Look at how many melee classes we already have, SE isn't going to add us to the ranks of hybrid classes DNC, BLU, PUP, etc just because the RDM forums want to melee.

This isn't about being against those that choose to melee, this is about what RDM needs as a whole. I'm hoping everyone that reads this thread understands this. The useful melee/mage ratio is terribly balanced right now. RDM was the jack of trades and SCH was the jack of all magic trades. This style of plan no longer works well. I'm sure some of you will say "But Shadow, me and my friends low-man this or that". Well guess what, if you could low-man on RDM while meleeing, you could do it on any job now. That's my point here.

For the record, I don't mind RDM meleeing in Abyssea because it doesn't matter. Most people are leeches anyway so I'd rather have a melee RDM than an afk melee. Fair and balanced is the key.

edit: I got rated down for being honest. Oh nooesss.. what will I ever do. C'mon speak up if you you don't agree. Quit being a coward. Grow some balls and say something.

Edited, May 11th 2011 1:45pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

Edited, May 11th 2011 1:46pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

So because we were one of the original jobs, in your mind, that means we can never be forced off the line. Well we don't need anymore hybrid jobs, we have enough already. We need backline casters that support the group. Doesn't strike you as odd how few mages people take nowadays? They'll take a WHM and BLM, but the rest are melee.

The course in which RDM should head is the backline casting duties. I'm happy that WHM has healing locked down, but what if SE released some useful enfeebles or other spells that made RDM viable. It would be nice to have a back-up healer too just in case. RDM was always the back-up... tank, healer, nuker etc. It just makes no sense to pursue a melee front when it's already covered in spades by like 15 jobs. Would it not make more sense to be a sensible back line caster? Give us more magical spells that aren't just rehashes of BLM spells now like Tier IV nukes. Addle was a good start, but how about some ancient enfeebles. Give RDM a terror spell that works on Abyssea mega-bosses and other HNM caliber mobs. Or how about a /ja called Rune which absorbs magic with our sword and gives us MP returns. This would work great eating those GA's and other nukes especially if stunning isn't viable. I have ideas how to make us useful again, but I don't think most of you care unless it means you get to auto attack blindly.



You seem confused here so let me help you. RDM's job has changed and that means it's not the same class it once was. It now needs a niche to fit in, not more "jack of all trades" crap. RDM melee was fine in 2003-2004. BLU replaced RDM as the hybrid melee class. As you know, RDM was stuck as a healer, refresh cycles, and enfeebling duties at the time BLU came out. Now the game has changed to low-man everything and you want SE to improve our meleeing when there are so few mages that can heal/support? How can you possible expect SE to take that seriously? This is NOT a matter if they can or not, this is a question of what sense would it make to do so.

Have you not seen for yourself how SE low-man NM/HNM's are fought? For the moment, let's address your concept that it would be nice to have some backup. The community doesn't respond to "it would be nice to have" anymore. I think that ended back when we used to main heal bird parties. We could of had 2 healers, but that was overkill in most people's eyes. Why do you think people actual bring BLM/brd if that wasn't the case? They want to do more with less which means "niche" slots are not required. This isn't about what "your friends" do, this is abut what we as a class need to do.

Honestly I don't see a way to make RDM useful again unless they give us over-powered enfeebles like I mentioned. I shouldn't say over-powered as nothing could trump how broken atma make us. I have to ask though why do you want to hybrid knowing full well how mobs are fought now? Like I said, go auto attck in an Abby party, nobody will care. Get it out of your system there. I don't see the point though in having RDM at the front lines for anything else. If you do, we're just going to take damage from AoE or get silenced aura or something. I really don't understand what you expect here.

I don't think you see the big picture. This isn't about just Abby here. Nyzul is being done with 3. Salvage, Assault etc. All future content is being done with those best jobs because there the game is dying in a matter of speaking. Those alliances you referenced are going the way of a dodo and SE's plan to make FFXI more casual isn't going to help. Shinryu and other Abby mobs isn't the Alpha and the Omega of RDM's fate. The truth is people are using less and less and a n extra healer/hybrid class isn't required anymore. This isn't 2004 anymore. This game isn't about huge alliances and tons of people waiting on the sidelines waiting to be rotated in. It's like you haven't read any of the Dev notes. RDM must fill a low-man role and sadly I think it must be a healer. NA/EU groups aren't going to shout for another mage if WHM and BLM can cover everything. This isn't about procs, this about feeding another mouth. If you take that RDM who offers "support", then you must give him shiny too. The only way this game has ever worked was to have a feasible job that is a workhorse. RDM was the #1 workhorse over the years, but now it's general all purpose tool set is just out-dated.

Ok, I'll start with your comment that SE should delete all the other jobs if alliances are a thing of the past. I'll respond to this by saying how can you lump the core jobs of Abyssea(for triggers mostly) and say the other jobs don't have merit? Most of the problems of other DD jobs is the crit advantage(RR atma on single weapons) and the lack of triggers. That isn't going to be problem with most EG content so it's a moot point. As for mages, yes I think both SCH and RDM need Cure V. That will fix(put a bandage) on those 2 jobs for awhile outside Abby. BST is a monster DD job(no pun intended) and if it could do more triggers, it would be a solid Abby job. COR and BRD will become more useful once atmas and brews are taken out of the picture. You should know the rest already.

I just don't understand why you want to hybrid against these uber bosses in Dynamis or any new content. I know you didn't really say that word for word, but you did make this statement. "If you can't bring yourself to contribute ideas to make the hybrid style work, as far as I'm concerned, you're not welcome to the discussion." I think we should stick to hybrid in our Abby parties and low-man if RDM can handle the group. According to most pro-melee RDM's over the years, they never were asking to melee Gods and harder stuff anyway. This includes Starfox's views who seemed popular here. Abby XP parties is what we always asked for, so why must you now ask the unreasonable?

Our real problem as a class is we don't serve much of a purpose during any of the events now. Link control isn't important when you can burn everything down super fast. I'm referencing events like Dynamis prior to the patch. Now because of those NM's and high tier mobs, maybe RDM will find a home again. The problem I see here is that most people myself included are done with Dynamis. I don't really have a answer honestly. I'm open to suggestions at this point. Like I said above, Cure V will only be a bandage to a much greater problem. I supposed SE could swarm us with more Dynamis inspired high tier mobs and make us a link controller again. But that approach would kill off the casual element that SE is aiming for. The old days you needed a monster alliance to take down stuff like Dynamis Lord or AV/PW. SE doesn't seem to want that anymore. As the game gets older, it makes more sense to do stuff with 6 people max. I see fewer and fewer people doing Salvage and Nyzul and those that do are in smaller groups. Those old fashioned alliances would require too many resources and people would get stuck on hated jobs like BRD full-time. Again show me a solution and I'll sign off on it.

Shadow isn't for RDM melee anything, he's proven that several times over the years.

Shadow you probably didn't notice but ~all~ skills of C or higher got increased by the same amount from 76 to 90. Everyone gained 85 skill points equally, meaning you have the exact same skill difference at 90 that you had at 75. Composure is +15 acc or 16.5 skill worth of acc, that puts RDM at 2.5 acc behind native BLU or 12.5 if you include acc bonus (RDM can get that through /DNC but I'd prefer /NIN). There is virtually no base acc difference between the two, BLU just has access to better melee gear.

My point was that pizza is a set percentage increase, prior to the big 76+ upgrade a RDM could reach 350+ acc with gear but before food. 350 * .11 = +38.5 acc from Pizza +1. Now we add a direct 76.5 increase do that number from the 85 skill we've since received. 426 * .11 = 46.86, or 8.35 free accuracy. Honestly that is at lv 75 equipment, we've since received a few better pieces and there is yet nothing outside Abyssea we can't cap / near cap acc with meat. Inside abyssea accuracy is craptacular unless your target is a THF mob (Tunga as example). I'm eating bison steak on every job now. Prior to abyssea we didn't have issues hitting stuff once we threw in food, the acc argument is a refuge for the ill-informed.

I have to ask, if you think instead of me asking to be able to cure decently I should go level WHM, then why don't you go level BLU or another pure melee instead of asking for RDM to be more melee? Neither of them makes sense, we want different things for RDM, no use telling each other to go level another job just because you don't want the role of this job to go in a certain direction.

I should say that personally I like what RDM has been, I like healing and don't want RDM to go in towards more melee. Like Shadow I think we could do something more, something more fun (I know people don't agree) and also I think more than 1 healing job is needed more than 1 more melee/hybrid or w/e you want to call it.

Edited, May 12th 2011 12:50pm by Belcrono

I agree with in regard to not homogenizing the mage classes. Although your ideas for fixing the other jobs isn't going to resonate with the playerbase. First of all, I don't care how potent REGEN you might have, it's never going to replace a Cure V or VI for that matter. This is because when a tank usually takes massive damage, it's not a matter of nickel and diming their health back. You need them out of the red and near full HP asap. Without Cure V minimum, you just can't accomplish this. So again, you're just a back-up to WHM which won't earn you a slot unless your group is taking a gang to overkill. PUP's auto has Cure V, but the poor thing has no brains to use it right. If our PUP's could go see the wizard and get a brain for their Auto, PUP could be a good healer. It doesn't make a lick of sense why RDM shouldn't get Cure V, but we get the tier IV nukes below BLM. I think some of you guys are so concerned that if RDM learns Cure V that will force us into more healing roles so you're not thinking logically here. I have to wonder how logically it makes any sense that any job can sub /WHM and have Cure IV access.

As for melee, we won't ever get more damage. I think my idea of giving RDM Runic would prove more useful. The ability to absorb most magical blasts with our dagger/swords would be a huge bonus for us and a reason to keep our weapons equipped.

Cure IV doesn't suddenly stop existing when paired with a potent regen. Other games have had an ability where, based on the damage you receive, you regenerate parts of it. That's basically my idea for the concept on RDM. You take 1000 damage, every 3 seconds you regen 250 of that back. Ideally it'd be 83ish every second, but I dunno if the tick system can be worked around. Regardless, 250 recovered plus 500 or so from the Cure IV, 750 HP recovered. Workable outside Abyssea, and not the total freakin' end of the world inside. Even with more normal hits around 150-200, getting 37-50 is like triple regen atma stacking potent. More than sufficient for most scrub mobs. Make it last 10m with a possible recovery ceiling and you also give RDM more time to do other things than camp Cure IV.

This is something I just can't wrap my mind around.

Healing is as basic as DDing when it comes to MMOs. So why the big discrepancy between DD's and healers. Cause as it stands right now, we only have 1 true healer in the game. That's pretty stupid in my opinion. And show me any spell, jt, ja, or anything where the #1 job is TWO FULL TIERS (and by Tier, I mean roughly double the power from one to the next, not a measly 5% or so increase) ahead of the supposed next best. And that's just based on the spell alone, not even taking into account the myriad of other advantages WHM has when it comes to being a healer.

There's no doubt WHM should be the best healer, but not by such a huge margin. Right now, WHM is Michael Jordan, RDM and SCH are junior college benchwarmers.


Edited, May 13th 2011 12:33am by Fermion

Seriha, you're overlooking an important part of healing. Sure, you've got your ideas about regen type spells, PDT spells, and they're pretty good. They're well thought out, and you seem to have a good grasp on making them balanced. But efficiency isn't always the answer.

You're totally overlooking hp restored/time. What do you propose if/when your tank/dd goes into critical hp? While WHM can just cast Cure V & VI and everything's all better just like that, we're (SCH & RDM) in quite a bind. To a WHM this situation is just ho-hum hit two macros and business as usual, for us, it could potentially lead to a wipe.

That's where I have the problem. One job, I don't care if it is the pinnacle of whatever, shouldn't have such ridiculous advantage over the healers right after it. Cure V is a relatively simple way to help close the gap, and simple is just the way I'd like to see this issue addressed. SE has weird ways of convoluting job balance issues.

As we stand now, our healing in comparison to theirs (2 tiers apart) is "kinda" like DRK nuking vs. BLM nuking.



Edited, May 13th 2011 4:04am by Fermion

My biggest issue with RDM melee currently (this is both in an out of abyssea) is the restriction on certain weaponskills, in combination with restricted use on Daggers. The fact that we don't really have a solid sword WS before CDC sucks, with our better WS being on dagger before then (evis) but lack of any good daggers (outside of I think 2 that drop in aby and 1 requires lots of luck to get.)

Our gear isn't to to far behind (yet) we can still cap haste, break 500+ATK on a WS, boost our stats. But we are beginning to get to the end of that rope. Enspells I don't overly see as an issue, outside of aby, they are a solid chunk of added damage. Its still like adding on 200 or so ATK.

I think a good step would be for SE to lift restrictions on EX weaponskills (not just for RDM but for all jobs) I still find it odd a class that is a Sword Class (in SE's eyes and based on a skill level comprison by all jobs that can use swords) That RDM is locked on certain skills, when we have a higher skill level (be it slight) than DRK and WAR (both who likely have merits spent elsewhere as well). Then we could make use of the Esword+1 and still have a decent sword WS.



Oh and give us some dagger love.....

This would be the point where I also point out that if you're in a situation where no WHMs are available, yet seemingly absolutely needed, you can utilize a second healer to help pick up the slack. Or that a PLD could cure themselves, too, if you're using one. Pairing a RDM and SCH, in my given examples, would also provide a pretty durable "tank party" team in the event larger-scale party events make a return to the game.

Overall, if you're not working with a WHM, then the party might need to shift tactics some, even if it means everyone else within common damage range subbing NIN instead of WAR or SAM. The herpderp engage and AFK style people have gotten used to with easy mode WHM has kind of negated this need for thought.

It's glad to see that in my retirement from this game, nothing's really changed. Really is helpful in keeping me away.

Shadow's still the same Melee-hatting moron he's always been. Gear for RDM melee is pretty much scraps, and the mechanics of the game basically rule out the entire utility that always made RDM shine as more than a pigeon hole healer. Thank goodness RDMs do not have Cure V or it might never get an identity of its own.

But I wanted to throw a bone out here that's old and dusty, but might be oddly appropriate in this case, an alternative to getting Cure V.

I've been digging through various games and for years I've been pondering over the iconic "Double Cast" ability that's missing from Red Mage. In this instant I think that Doublecast as an activated JA on approximately a 45 sec to 1 minute timer that allows a Healing or Elemental damage spell to occur twice instead of once, in trade for additional MP cost or cooldown would be helpful for the lack of Cure V woes, without pigeon-holing RDM back into pure healer.

This in no way will solve RDM's current 'Role' crisis. Though, honestly, I don't believe any thing simple such as gear or higher tiers of what is available to RDM will ever solve that. RDM has always been a middle of the road job to be focused the way the RDM desires anyways, in both single player games and this one. But this ability should bring the casting side back to a more recognizable state without taking away from what makes any other job unique.

AS far as anything else to help out the role? That's always been up to SE, who seems to be quite content in keeping us middle of the road. It would only be a personal desire to see RDM's front line aspects to be a touch more unique and viable than it is now (or was at the time I left.)

Though I doubt even that would get me to come back. Personal events have pretty much ruined the game, and MMOs in general, for me. And I don't think I could come back and face all that again. I figured it was appropriate for an old relic to chime in another old relic idea.

GL guys.

Why does the fact that White Mage gets 2 tiers of cures above us JUSTIFY that we should get C5. Shouldn't we be giving buffs based on performance and not silly semantics?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying our curing potential is where it should be atm, but if you give Rdm Cure 5 you eliminate any possibility of making a different type of cure. Part of being a healer and balancing a healer are your cure's recasts.

I mean the reason we are a terrible healer isn't as much that we don't have C5 as much as we ONLY have C4 and can only cure as fast as C4s timer.

Simply put our HPS is pathetic.

The reason Blue Mage is the second best healer in the game atm isn't because they have a Cure 4.5. It's because they can get Cure 4 with their 4.5 essentially letting them heal nearly twice as fast as us.

Cure 5 isn't necessary to make us into a better healer.

There are other options that are plenty capable of that, and I'd rather have an option that creates a new style of healing then just another spike spell.

If your concern is that cure 5, because it's a spike spell, is safer then any other option, well...that's not necessarily true. Cure 5 is just more herp derp.

Food for though. Is restoring a tanks HP to full immediately after a severely damaging attack the only way to protect him from death?

Edited, May 14th 2011 11:25am by SlashAnonymous

The more and more I think about it I find myself agreeing that instead of Cure V to RDM, SE should instead create a new type of Regen that's effect is based on enhancing magic. It should be a short duration Heal over Time (HoT) that lets us flex our high native enh skill. That and relax all the restrictions on Accessioning buffs on party members. Nearly all PT member target-able spells should be accession-able.

You know I'm not against any regen upgrade in addition to Cure V. As you know, enhancing regens have limitations. The worst limitation by far is healing OUTSIDE of party. A good RDM should be healing everyone a WHM is healing 2nd on their priority list. I've already proved several times that Cure V won't make us a Pink mage again, but it will improve our use in all types of situations to include hybrid play. It's always been my belief that a RDM and WHM should be a tag team. This belief goes all the way back to FF1. WHM will always be the main healer, but it's nice and relaxing to know that they don't have to spam whack-a-mole cures on all people if you have a RDM there. WHM has a tool set that far exceeds Cure V and VI. In order to make RDM, middle of the road like others have mentioned, we need Cure V. Cure IV is the low road, Cure VI is the high road, obviously Cure V is the middle road. I'm well aware most of you guys who play RDM main are just worried that you'll be lumped into WHM's slot should the group be unable to find one. I believe SCH will find themselves in that role, not us. It doesn't matter what your preference is of what RDM should be. Cure V is coming so get ready for it. Without a shadow of a doubt & Lv95, we will have it.

You know that's not a limitation inherent with regens themselves but is a developers conscious decision.



Agreed, but a powerful regen like we are talking about would actually help assist the Whm more then C5. First off, the White Mages first priority is generally the guy getting curbed meaning anyone who is second on the priority list isn't in immediate danger of dying which means a regen will work fine unless the monster is literally spamming AoEs in which case the Whm is probably spamming Curaga anyway. In addition even if we do heal the same target Cure 5 + Strong regen works better then 2 Cure 5s. 2 Cure 5s will likely cause a waste in HP healed, but the first combo, while some HP might be wasted, will have the majority of it heal the next few hits from the monster instead.

The issue with Cure 5 is it won't make us the middle of the road, assistant to a white mage, healer. White Mage will always be a better healer even if we get C5, I agree with this, but you have to realize for like 95% of fights all a White Mage needs is cure 5. Adding cure 5 to Red Mage doesn't make him an assistant to a White Mage, it makes him the substitute for when you can't find a White Mage. That is too much power for a hybrid class.

(Tbh the real solution is to just design harder monsters that require more then a Mnk and a Whm and from what I've heard of some of the new Voidwalkers they might have done that.)

The regen would only be uber powerful if it was designed that way. What's more important is the concept behind the idea then the numbers of the idea. I mean the regen we are proposing is something not currently in XI yet commonly found in other MMOs. It's that type of regen that only lasts like 10-20 secs but ticks much more HP then a standard regen. Something like 100-300 HP/tick.

In fact one of the main benefits of this as well is that the development team can in fact balance it with what they feel Rdm should get. They don't really have that much of a luxury with Cure 5.



This is where hybridization comes in. In theory how hybrids work is if you can't find that one specialist like a White Mage what you can do instead is drop one of your DD specialists and invite 2 hybrids instead.
If balanced properly DD + WHM = 2x Hybrid.

This is why we are so insistent for a melee buff (and a minor healing buff). Because 2 Red mages don't even COMPARE to one specialized DD. If that DD is pimped out not even an army of pimped out Rdms could compete with the DDs damage.

The same is true for healing atm. 2x Rdms don't compare to 1 whm. If you gave Rdm cure 5 though 2 Rdms would be quite a bit more then 1 whm, and that ruins our chance to be any sort of hybrid role since the can't boost our damage since is 2 Rdms could equal 1 DD then no one would even bother inviting Whm + DD anymore since 2xRdm would do the same damage but have way more defensive power.

Now this is just how it theoretically works. In the real game there are other things preventing this from happening such as economies of scale and diminishing returns between jobs, but the point stands that it we get cure 5 we won't be able to be developed as well in another field because our healing will be stronger then a generalist should have. It's the reason we virtually went stagnant since the big Rdm change. Because our healing was so strong that they couldn't realistically buff us.



This is an issue of needing more HPS. Not needing cure 5.



You say this, but I'll be honest. Rdm and Whm are one of the WORST job combinations to have in the game simply because too many of our things can't stack. We have the same haste spell. We can't use both of our refreshes. Many of our other enhancement spells are the same or don't stack with each other. Our enfeebles don't stack. I mean think instead if you had Whm + Brd instead of Whm + Rdm.

Whm + Rdm will both have 6-7 MP/tick from the Rdm.
Whm + Brd will both have 8-10 MP/tick from both jobs

Whm + Rdm will give the DDs 15% haste
Whm + Brd will give the DDs 35% haste

Whm + Rdm will give the monster a 35-40% slow (70-80 with Sab)
Whm + Brd will give the monster 80% slow

And, at the moment at least, a Brd can heal just about as well as a Rdm, and probably melee better to if he gets a good set of Hetacomb augments. (The whm already stomps rdm melee)

The majority of RDMs need to hop their monkey asses on WHM, then.