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#1 Mar 09 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Default
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who is the best rdm solo player, in your opinion? avesta pioneered solo rdm, rog refined it, and so many others put their own twist on it. it doesn't matter if your nomination is based on originality, style, knowledge, practicality, or skill with a keyboard. go ahead and state your reasoning if you want to, but more importantly, cast your vote!
#2 Mar 09 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Xenith RDM/BLU

(also wtf @ Rog refining it? He did what everyone else did in a bit better gear. Honestly dieing 4-5 times to a mob is not reinvention. He was good but I would hardly credit him with being on a similar level as Avesta was.)

Edited, Mar 9th 2011 8:22am by rdmcandie
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#3 Mar 09 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
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also wtf @ Rog refining it?
rog's rdm/sch zerg on zipacna (and his playstyle in general) redefined kite-nuke solo efficiency. for me at least.
#4 Mar 09 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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isnt avesta on ps2/ps3 ? Doing any soloing on a console blows me away ....cause you are limited to the amount of things you can do at once and definately have to concentrate harder. PC i would say Xenith is **** good. So is this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSKy7_2bQaE

although i dont think he plays anymore.

Rog is definately good too...but I would give a side shout out to Kaeko who although didnt get to rdm till later in ff pioneers some insane strats for kiting (not rog) and nm soloing.


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#5 Mar 09 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Default
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xeniths melee seems slower than kite strategies... is it really worth gearing and meriting so specifically?
#6 Mar 09 2011 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Nukeynukey wrote:
xeniths melee seems slower than kite strategies... is it really worth gearing and meriting so specifically?


Its no different then gearing or meriting specifically for nuking, and while they may be slower, they are not really any less effective. The most important fact when soloing is wining.
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#7 Mar 10 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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they may be slow but **** they are hair raisingly awesome!
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#8 Mar 10 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
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Deadus wrote:
they may be slow but **** they are hair raisingly awesome!


Ya i like melee soloing so much more. Nuke solo's are so 2005. But I prefer /DNC to /BLU. Cuz im effing badass like that.
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#9 Mar 10 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
I've personally never met a better soloist than Rog, he made me feel like crap about my ability, and I tend to win.
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#10 Mar 14 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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You're basically asking people to decide something entirely subjectve when they have incomplete information. Most vocal on community sites does not equal best soloist, or anything else other than 'loves to hear themself speak.' I guarantee you there's dozens of soloists on every server that are as good, if not better, than the (loud) ones you know of from sites like this one.

In other words, next time just title your thread 'Let's pat our solo community's loudest members on the back' and be done with it, instead of aspiring to some loftier goal.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#11 Mar 14 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Speaking of Rog, where is he? I haven't seen him post in awhile which seems weird I guess.

As for my pick, I stick with Avesta because he has the best skills of any RDM. He is a master tactician who plays on the PS2 which has to be very challenging in itself. All the copycats can't touch him.

I'll pick Xenith as a runner-up because I really enjoy watching a melee solo approach. It was because of Xenith that gave me the idea to try it for myself watching his solo videos like the scorp KS30 fight.
#12 Mar 14 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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You're basically asking forcing people to decide something entirely subjectve when they have incomplete information.
fixed, lol (THE FORUMS ARE COMING!)
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Most vocal on community sites does not equal best soloist
i dont remember saying anything remotely similar to this.
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I guarantee you there's dozens of soloists on every server that are as good, if not better, than the (loud) ones you know of from sites like this one.
i made this thread to hear who those dozens are.

instead, some dingdong informs me "well you see... there are dozens".
#13 Mar 14 2011 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
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There are two reasons to solo: need and bragging rights.

They're not mutually exclusive, but frankly, most anyone who records and publicly shares their exploits is leaning more toward the latter. Just posting about it is a lesser form of bragging, and sometimes it leads into the inevitable POIDH goading for proof.

On some level, the solos were all pretty much the same, bind/pin and DoT/nuke. Some would up it a notch and demand a phalanx of reraise items to just spam DoTs and repeatedly die. Others involved zoning a mob repeatedly, which could get it stolen from you or even MPK unsuspecting people.

I have two beefs with the braggarts. The first being that it's basically been a glowing neon sign against RDMs for the advancement of the job. Here are, 3 cap increases in, and quite possibly suffering because people got the impression RDM was "too strong" without considering other jobs could also solo, sometimes better in both speed and safety. You will very rarely see people ******** about a NIN/DNC, though (aside from maybe them killing a mob they were looking to). The second beef is the simple assumption that if they can do it, anyone else can. Gear varies. Connection quality varies. Platform use varies. There's some element of luck when it comes to resists and TP moves. In Rog's (Who got banned, Shadow) case, he admitted to using 12% movement speed hacks, and pinning itself is a debate against bug/exploit or working as intended.

Regardless of motivation, not everyone who solos posts here or documents it. Some blur the line and consider multi-boxing soloing. Some can only solo if they can pin. Some are averse to the idea in general. Lots goes on that we'll never see as we're never everywhere 24/7. And honestly, what some might consider a rough solo would be easy peasy for someone else for varying reasons. sh*t, as they say, is situational.

Edited, Mar 15th 2011 12:49am by Seriha
#14 Mar 15 2011 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would like to add fun to your list there Seriha. I'll admit that soloing Genbu sounded like a better idea than it was (From a fun-perspective), but aside from that I really enjoyed all the solos I did. Even those where I died the first few times.

I agree that the soloing some people have done have, since the cap raise, held RDM back. Right now it doesn't feel so fun in that sense, but at the same time seeing Avesta's videos was what first got me interested in RDM. I leveled RDM because I wanted to solo and I had a lot of fun with it, even starting with my RDM AF hat long before I was 75.

I guess there were people actually complaining about RDMs being "too strong", but quite honestly I can't say I've met a lot of those and most of those I did meet were not actually talking about RDMs solo ability.

On the topic of best soloer I would have to say that from all the soloers I've seen/heard of Avesta is probably the best coupled with (like someone mentioned) Kaeko even though he mostly used BLM. Reason being it feels like they were both on the frontlines of figuring things out and working out tactics for how to solo the more difficult NMs.
#15 Mar 15 2011 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'd kinda lump fun in with need. If you're not having fun playing a game, why play?
#16 Mar 15 2011 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I think soloing is only truly satisfying if it's challenging. In the case of NIN/dnc, people are suggesting it's not very difficult to do. I remember soloing quite a bit BEFORE /dnc even came into existence. Is it easier now? probably. BST is another job where some solos are **** hard and then you have others that are simply chuck mobs at the NM until it dies. BST is a very challenging solo job IF conditions are right which is why I brought it up. RDM is a very easy job to exploit using 3rd party cheats or kiting strategies using pinning or other methods.

I agree with the reasons why people solo. I also think RDM's solo more because the job never gets credit for doing anything. There is no glory to the job. You just didn't whip out your sword and do a 5k Gekko and save the day. Nobody give props to that RDM who saves the day by healing or sleeping a link or problem mob. We are usually unnoticed unless we are slacking on a specific duty and that's about the only time when people take notice of you. So it's no big surprise why so many RDM's are attracted to the soloing lifestyle.
#17 Mar 15 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the reasons why people solo. I also think RDM's solo more because the job never gets credit for doing anything. There is no glory to the job. You just didn't whip out your sword and do a 5k Gekko and save the day. Nobody give props to that RDM who saves the day by healing or sleeping a link or problem mob. We are usually unnoticed unless we are slacking on a specific duty and that's about the only time when people take notice of you. So it's no big surprise why so many RDM's are attracted to the soloing lifestyle.


This on so many levels. RDM is imo the most thankless job in the game. No one ever commends you on your Slow being capped, or your Para being capped, no one ever thanks you for buffing the party with Dia, or Haste, or Refresh. Healers seldom get the credit they deserve. We are seldom wow'd at when we drop a nuke, or a WS (although sometimes some people are shocked when they see numbers we can put out because they think RDM sucks so bad at it). Really all RDM has to have a WOW factor is its soloing, WoE, and ease of capping in campaign.

It is a thankless and non-glory job. It doesn't surprise me when people just solo for fame, because you can heal/buff bot for ever without notice (unless a buff drops for a few seconds and you get spammed to reapply it yesterday).

*Just to explain WoE. With the way it works it really shows RDM's who play the job in a universal way how much they really contribute. Whenever I do WoE I am usually #1 unless there is a BLU or DNC present, who can do the same amount of "point" earning and make it a tight run for the top.

Edited, Mar 15th 2011 11:24am by rdmcandie
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#18 Mar 15 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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There is no glory to the job. You just didn't whip out your sword and do a 5k Gekko and save the day. Nobody give props to that RDM who saves the day by healing or sleeping a link or problem mob.
That's because there's nothing glorious about a RDM casting spells or swinging swords.

When partying as RDM, the most glorious thing you can do is communicate your observations (which RDM makes a lot of, by nature).

Talk.
Keep the vibe up.
Send a smartass /tell to the BLM that just casted Sleep II on an already-slept mob.
Get excited!
Be engaged!
Make it contagious!

Red Magery's only limit is attitude...
If there's anything your party needs out of you (as a RDM), it's attitude.
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#19 Mar 15 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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IcookPizza wrote:
That's because there's nothing glorious about a RDM casting spells or swinging swords.

When partying as RDM, the most glorious thing you can do is communicate your observations (which RDM makes a lot of, by nature).

Talk.
Keep the vibe up.
Send a smartass /tell to the BLM that just casted Sleep II on an already-slept mob.
Get excited!
Be engaged!
Make it contagious!

Red Magery's only limit is attitude...
If there's anything your party needs out of you (as a RDM), it's attitude.


Exactly, there is no way to showboat unless you're soloing. I'm still conflicted about returning to RDM just because how often we are taken advantage of. That moron SAM who can't even manage his hate and keeps dying or becoming a HP sink earns more respect than the RDM who enfeebles and provides support. I remember this particular incident a long time(2004) ago when a LS mate(PLD) who felt that RDM shouldn't have any type of priority for W legs. I rejected his claims and fought hard to remain next on the list for them. He was basically claiming that all RDM would use it for was A) town gear and B) soloing, which wasn't helping the LS cause. I explained that even if I needed/wanted it just to keep up with his dumbass to refresh him on kited stuff, W. legs were indeed valid for a RDM to own. I wasn't about to touch the issue that I could kite better than him on his PLD. It was at that time it finally clicked in my head how others think of our class. We were "Refresh whores" and the job known to be "broken" for soloing certain NMs.

Now that I have returned to the game, I might just watch your videos Xenith and leave RDM retired for everything else. I don't need to explain my reasons as you guys already know.
#20 Mar 15 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Okay and don't forget to subscribe.
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#21 Mar 15 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Default
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i made this thread to hear who those dozens are.

instead, some dingdong informs me "well you see... there are dozens".


And, as expected, all you've got so far are the usual Alla suspects + Kaeko and Avesta. Hardly revelatory. My point is that you're not going to find out who they are, because the majority don't need approval from these forums to do what they do, and as such remain essentially unknown to the community. And as for Avesta, Kaeko, Rog... the only accomplishments one can really attribute to them is a willingness to spend their time making videos, writing blogs, or bragging incessantly about their exploits, respectively. With a few exceptions (mostly concerning Kaeko's enmity testing, which isn't really related to the topic at hand), all they've done is broadcast to the masses the sort of things that are common knowledge amongst most soloers. If you want to commend them for that, then by all means go for it, but as is you're just overreaching.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#22 Mar 15 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
i made this thread to hear who those dozens are.

instead, some dingdong informs me "well you see... there are dozens".


And, as expected, all you've got so far are the usual Alla suspects + Kaeko and Avesta. Hardly revelatory. My point is that you're not going to find out who they are, because the majority don't need approval from these forums to do what they do, and as such remain essentially unknown to the community. And as for Avesta, Kaeko, Rog... the only accomplishments one can really attribute to them is a willingness to spend their time making videos, writing blogs, or bragging incessantly about their exploits, respectively. With a few exceptions (mostly concerning Kaeko's enmity testing, which isn't really related to the topic at hand), all they've done is broadcast to the masses the sort of things that are common knowledge amongst most soloers. If you want to commend them for that, then by all means go for it, but as is you're just overreaching.


Somebody jealous?
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#23 Mar 15 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
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..jealous of what, exactly? I prefer to spend my time online actually playing the game, as opposed to telling everyone how good I am at it on various forums; I was merely pointing out the futility of the OP's stated goal.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#24 Mar 15 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
..jealous of what, exactly? I prefer to spend my time online actually playing the game, as opposed to telling everyone how good I am at it on various forums; I was merely pointing out the futility of the OP's stated goal.


Yep you jealous. Its ok I am jealous of Rog and Xenith too. But Im not going to take away their respective feats because they posted about them in a gloating fashion or not. I think you should go back to tirelessly advocating what ever it was you advocated the last time you came to =2.
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#25 Mar 15 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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Read harder; I'm not trying to diminish anyone's accomplishments. The only point I'm making here is that the few names brought up in this thread are but a small percentage of the players capable of soloing on their level, and most prefer to remain anonymous rather than spend their time grovelling for approval from the likes of you, therefore making the OP's question an exercise in futility.

As for me? When people /check me in town and see my completed sets of +2 armor, my full complement of Magian Staves, or my Kannagi, and refuse to believe me when I tell them I don't even have a LS, that all of my gear came from solo/duoing? The fact that 95% of players simply cannot believe it's possible is enough for me, thanks.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#26 Mar 15 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Read harder; I'm not trying to diminish anyone's accomplishments. The only point I'm making here is that the few names brought up in this thread are but a small percentage of the players capable of soloing on their level, and most prefer to remain anonymous rather than spend their time grovelling for approval from the likes of you, therefore making the OP's question an exercise in futility.

As for me? When people /check me in town and see my completed sets of +2 armor, my full complement of Magian Staves, or my Kannagi, and refuse to believe me when I tell them I don't even have a LS, that all of my gear came from solo/duoing? The fact that 95% of players simply cannot believe it's possible is enough for me, thanks.


Meh im not going to argue with you over it. He asked a question and people gave their answers. The ones who remain anonymous about it won't factor into the discussion because well....they are anonymous. Considering that this is the Allkhazam FFXI board is it really all that surprising that its community members are the ones that are referenced. I don't understand why you think an Opinion Question is Futile. He didn't ask who was the best soloer, he asked who we think is the best in our opinion.

IMO it is Xenith because not many people do RDM/BLU melee solo's, and I would answer the same if this question was posed anywhere. It just so happens that Xenith is a member of this community. Not to take credit away from anyone else who solo's on RDM but the vast majority do it RDM/NIN or RDM/SCH and nuke, which has been done to death. (not that it is bad a win is a win.) But how you can claim an open opinion question is futile is beyond me.


In regards to your second half......who is being the braggart now?

Edited, Mar 15th 2011 8:14pm by rdmcandie
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#27 Mar 15 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Default
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Its no different then gearing or meriting specifically for nuking, and while they may be slower, they are not really any less effective.


It is completely different, actually.

-RDM has access to much better nuke gear than melee gear.
-RDM's weapon choices, outside Relic/Mythic/Empyrean, pale in comparison to Magian DMG staves.
-Meleeing feeds exponentially more TP than nuking, making a large number of targets unfeasible or downright impossible.

The only time that meleeing is superior is when you're killing trash mobs, or fighting something that takes zero magical damage. Given that these mobs are quite rare, it's niche at best, redundant/counterproductive at worst.

I am quite sick of your nonsense on this subject; there's a reason why everyone uses /nin or /sch and nukes. If you were a PLD you'd probably advocate using Staff or something equally retarded. Would be right up your alley, troll, get to it.

Quote:
In regards to your second half......who is being the braggart now?


Yep, you jealous. As for Rog and Xenith... no offense intended Xenith, but forcing a square peg into a round hole isn't my idea of a good time. And Rog? Don't make me laugh. You said it yourself best here:

Quote:
(also wtf @ Rog refining it? He did what everyone else did in a bit better gear. Honestly dieing 4-5 times to a mob is not reinvention. He was good but I would hardly credit him with being on a similar level as Avesta was.)


And what about you, sir troll? From everything I'm led to believe from your multitude of posts here, you're a ******** RDM who thinks /DNC is useful (lol) and tries his best to avoid the 'Mage' in 'Red Mage'. Enough said.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#28 Mar 15 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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no offense intended Xenith, but forcing a square peg into a round hole isn't my idea of a good time.

'Offend me again, you'll pay the toll...
Same square plug, different hole'
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#29 Mar 15 2011 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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And what about you, sir troll? From everything I'm led to believe from your multitude of posts here, you're a gimpsh*t RDM who thinks /DNC is useful (lol) and tries his best to avoid the 'Mage' in 'Red Mage'. Enough said.


Did I upset you? You have a soft spot for being put in your place and told to shut up. I honestly could give 2 sh*ts if you think I am gimp...big @#%^ing deal. I stopped caring about gear grinds a long long time ago, and decided I would have fun with the game instead of slaving away to get a couple % more on a parse. Imagine that playing a game for fun.

As for being jealous of you, don't make me laugh, look at you. All bent out of shape because someone asked who this community thinks the best RDM soloer is. All bent out of shape because people picked Rog, Xenith and Kaeko. All bent out of shape because people don't want to play just like you and the other 9000 RDM's around. I can't think of a valid reason to be jealous of someone who gets their knickers twisted up over a harmless question.

You so mad and I don't know why, but it is going to be fun watching you explode over nothing.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 12:47am by rdmcandie
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#30 Mar 15 2011 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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As for me? When people /check me in town and see my completed sets of +2 armor, my full complement of Magian Staves, or my Kannagi, and refuse to believe me when I tell them I don't even have a LS, that all of my gear came from solo/duoing? The fact that 95% of players simply cannot believe it's possible is enough for me, thanks.
Nice gear.
If I was naked and in a PvP session with you, my money would still be on me.

That's not meant to serve as an argument for anything... I'm just sayin'.
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#31 Mar 15 2011 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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IcookPizza wrote:

If I was naked and in a PvP session with you, my money would still be on me.

That's not meant to serve as an argument for anything... I'm just sayin'.


I'm just curious, is silence free game in PvP with you? If so, I really, really hate the battle of the echo drops. :P
#32 Mar 16 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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I remember back in the day a bunch of friends and I would spend hours 1v1ing in there. Or 2v2 stuff like that. But they always made a rule that I couldn't silence anyone (was the only RDM). I found it unfair to begin with then I realized I don't need silence, I have para, slow, gravity, bind, Ice Spikes (for lol mnks), Melee strikes for the casters, Nukes for the the NIN's and /NINs (after wonderfully placed Diaga's).

Only job I ever had trouble with was BLU, and for obvious reasons they are the same freaking class. DNC is kind of tough too since they can get TP without actually having to hit you with weapons. NIN/DNC can also be tricky but nothing a quick Diaga spam into nuke spam gravity kite wouldn't solve.
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#33LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 12:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If I seem mad, it's likely due to the fact that I'm sick of you trolling every post I make here. Dealing with idiots is tiresome.
#34 Mar 16 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:


Only job I ever had trouble with was BLU, and for obvious reasons they are the same freaking class. DNC is kind of tough too since they can get TP without actually having to hit you with weapons. NIN/DNC can also be tricky but nothing a quick Diaga spam into nuke spam gravity kite wouldn't solve.


DNC's can't get TP without meleeing though. Reverse flourish and abilities like that require you to have used moves like Box step already which requires TP. So between Stoneskin and Utsusemi, a good RDM should never give any TP to a DNC and thus they're harmless. The same goes for MNK and NIN Dot damage. If they can't score damage(Phalanx, SS, and shadows) they get zero TP. Every melee in the game is destroyed by Para/Slow combo and Icespikes just owns Dot jobs DNC, MNK, NIN, THF, and BLU(melee). Composure makes keeping on buffs super easy so there isn't any reason why you wouldn't have on buffs full-time. NIN's only dangerous if they can enfeeble you and that's it. I'm curious why you felt DNC was a challenge for RDM though. They hit weaker than THF's and for all 0's on top of our buffs. Icespikes alone shuts them down. Curing waltz and the Esuna-ish move share the same time so even if they took off para real quick with their TP, they couldn't heal right away(timers) and chances are if they lived that long, the next attempt would be eaten by para.
#35 Mar 16 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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If I seem mad, it's likely due to the fact that I'm sick of you trolling every post I make here. Dealing with idiots is tiresome.


Then stop posting stupid sh*t. Honestly why do you care who people think the best soloer is? Why do you care how people choose to play the game? You can call me a troll yet come in here and start ragging on an innocent OPINION question then rag on me for how I choose to play (which isn't even relevant to the thread topic). I find more satisfaction standing in my MH chatting in LS then I do farming gear, so what. My gear race died with ToAU and I have no ambition to start again, especially considering that there is still 9 more levels of gear, and a potential plethora of endgame related stuff. But if a couple more % on a parse turns your crank then by all means enjoy it.

Also lolumad.



Edited, Mar 16th 2011 3:55pm by rdmcandie
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#36 Mar 16 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:


Only job I ever had trouble with was BLU, and for obvious reasons they are the same freaking class. DNC is kind of tough too since they can get TP without actually having to hit you with weapons. NIN/DNC can also be tricky but nothing a quick Diaga spam into nuke spam gravity kite wouldn't solve.


DNC's can't get TP without meleeing though. Reverse flourish and abilities like that require you to have used moves like Box step already which requires TP. So between Stoneskin and Utsusemi, a good RDM should never give any TP to a DNC and thus they're harmless. The same goes for MNK and NIN Dot damage. If they can't score damage(Phalanx, SS, and shadows) they get zero TP. Every melee in the game is destroyed by Para/Slow combo and Icespikes just owns Dot jobs DNC, MNK, NIN, THF, and BLU(melee). Composure makes keeping on buffs super easy so there isn't any reason why you wouldn't have on buffs full-time. NIN's only dangerous if they can enfeeble you and that's it. I'm curious why you felt DNC was a challenge for RDM though. They hit weaker than THF's and for all 0's on top of our buffs. Icespikes alone shuts them down. Curing waltz and the Esuna-ish move share the same time so even if they took off para real quick with their TP, they couldn't heal right away(timers) and chances are if they lived that long, the next attempt would be eaten by para.


and how exactly do I kill him if I am not giving him TP?. All it takes is one nuke and no foot rise and they have a cure 4 with a single step. Or reverse flourish into a WS and by by stoneskin. Have you actually fought a DNC in PVP or are you basing this entirely off of what the paper says?

I guess I could use poison, but that will take forever.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 3:51pm by rdmcandie
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#37 Mar 16 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry man, not a chance. I've seen your gear, and your videos give me no reason to think you'd have any sort of advantage in the strategy respect. (Hint: your PDT swords and Cocoon spam aren't gonna save you from my magic) If you wanna put money on it though, I'm down anytime.
Ah, because I would totally sub /BLU, melee, and wear a PDT variation in PvP.
Especially vs a mage.
Seriously.

Just from hearing you talk, I know (in regards to PvP):
-The 36 things I'd do to you while subbing /SCH
-The 46/47 things I'd do to you while subbing /BLM
-The first 20 things I'd do to you while subbing /NIN.
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#38LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 2:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're right, it's an opinion thread. I made one post, in which I made my OPINION of 'None of the above' known, after which you showed up and commenced trolling. Explain to me again why I'm the one in the wrong here?
#39 Mar 16 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're right, it's an opinion thread. I made one post, in which I made my OPINION of 'None of the above' known, after which you showed up and commenced trolling. Explain to me again why I'm the one in the wrong here?
Yyou didn't state your opinion. You immediately came out and blasted the OP for asking a subjective question, and then followed suit by more or less calling us who replied close minded because we only chose people from the alla community.
You not once stated your opinion on the question. Only bagged on it for being asked and bagged on those who replied.

Quote:
Ragging on you for how you choose to play is simply an observation into how little credibility you have regarding anything that isn't sitting in your MH chatting with your friends.


Right because the game mechanics themselves change because I happen to not participate. The game mechanics change because I choose not to play the Gear UP! version of FFXI. Id wager a good 25% of my post have been credible, and that isn't including the ones on RDD. (if you do the math that is 50% more informative posts than your entire post count.)

But is ok, you are in self destruct mode, so Ill take your petty insults with a smile, and continue to watch you blow up. But if I were you id go back to the SCH forums and rag on people who necro post threads, or argue about who's mostly useless 2 Hour is least useless. Or perhaps find someone who cares about you being a tireless advocate of efficiency. (give ya hint, it doesn't require RDM any more at all, period.)

But this is fun too. Mad? Umad.





Edited, Mar 16th 2011 6:27pm by rdmcandie
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#40 Mar 16 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:


and how exactly do I kill him if I am not giving him TP?. All it takes is one nuke and no foot rise and they have a cure 4 with a single step. Or reverse flourish into a WS and by by stoneskin. Have you actually fought a DNC in PVP or are you basing this entirely off of what the paper says?

I guess I could use poison, but that will take forever.


Well you could use ceremonial daggers and en-spell him to death. Honestly, I'm not even sure if that would work on a PC character, never tried that. I leveled DNC and soloed most of the way so I know how to enfeeble them most efficiently. Plus /dnc is my solo default sub for COR, NIN, and BST. One of my best friends is a DNC main and she was quite unsuccessful at gaining any "useful" TP against me in PvP.

Now as for No Foot Rise, I could wait until icespikes proced at least once before meleeing at all. I'd just use my shield and keep up buffs. Now the major weakness of DNC and /dnc is the recast timers. No Foot Rise is at a 3min timer. If Para were to eat it, well the fight would definitely be over very shortly. Let's say the DNC got off the move, but then attempted to convert it using reverse flourish. As you propably already know, the odds of getting off No Foot Rise, then Reverse Flourish, and finally a Curing Waltz is very unlikely with para on the DNC. Curing Waltz III is 50%tp. For the sake of argument, let's assume the DNC somehow beat the odds and got off Waltz III. All their TP is now gone and with no TP to remove para, it's going to be a downhill battle. In the meantime, the RDM has taken no damage, lost very little mp(buffs), zero health, and is ready to take down DNC for the 1,2,3. It really doesn't matter of the RDM were to melee at this point "feeding tp" to the DNC, but with para locked on, it's going to be a pain in the **** to cure themselves.

Lastly, you might want to gear up more defensively in PvP. I've survived Hundred Fists with a crazy Black belt MNK without losing Stoneskin going down and no shadows used. Phalanx/Stoneskin and good defense gear is the key. This was long before /blu even came out too. My default sub at that time was /drk for PvP. Any other questions?
#41 Mar 16 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just throwing this out there but you can /quarry Daedalus Wings >.>
#42 Mar 16 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
I'm just throwing this out there but you can /quarry Daedalus Wings >.>


You can also run away the entire fight avoiding the pending death. Or a RDM can use Poison and Bio and kite their opponent from a distance. If you start allowing quarries and hordes of purchased items, the fight just lasts forever. In the a toe to toe fight, RDM clearly is the odds on favorite. If people start using quarries to extend the PvP fight, you're going to see people fleeing away to stall the victory.
#43LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 8:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'd be lying if I said I could walk into PvP right now and win against you for certain, as I've paid about the same amount of attention to that as, ionno, Pankration? That, and you appear to have spent an inordinate amount of time on PvP, given the massive amount of **** you're talking here, so I'd be at a disadvantage for sure. That being said, give me a few days to prepare and i guarantee you lose every match.
#44 Mar 16 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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RCD, you're a petulant child. My new policy is to set your posts to Ignore, effective immediately. Find someone else to troll.


Why so serious?
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#45 Mar 16 2011 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Confirming DNC is a poor subjob choice for RDM in PvP...

or in almost any other situation.

Edited, Mar 17th 2011 2:25am by K1n371x
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#46 Mar 17 2011 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Xenith wrote:
Ah, because I would totally sub /BLU, melee, and wear a PDT variation in PvP.
Especially vs a mage.
Seriously.


I hope you are serious. I actually like this combo in this situation. /BLM and /SCH are also solid but /NIN is a horrible choice. Shadows become useless and dual wield allows them more time to complete spells between attack rounds.

Edited, Mar 17th 2011 2:29am by K1n371x
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#47 Mar 17 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I actually like this combo in this situation. /BLM and /SCH are also solid but /NIN is a horrible choice (vs mages).
At its simplest, Utsusemi is an MP-less way of forcing a mage opponent to lose time, focus, and in most cases, MP.

Many mages work around it just fine.
Some still struggle against it like you cannot believe.
Some of them squeal...
Quote:
Coming from a person that is known for taking RDM/BLU into situations where another strategy/subjob combination tends to be superior?
/BLU was red mage's fastest-possible sub for soloing:
Lindwurm @75cap
Lord of Onzozo @75cap
Crimson-toothed Pawberry @75cap
Voluptuous Vivian @80cap
Bune @80cap
Charybdis @80cap
Byakko @90cap
(my videos aren't good examples for killspeed; I was trying to record as many successful NM solos as my ever-improving gear would let me)

/BLU was red mage's ONLY subjob option for soloing:
Operation Desert Swarm @75
A Thief in Norg!? BC @75
ToAU 'Black Coffin' BC @75 (was also do-able with /WHM)
San'doria 7-2 @75 (was also do-able with /BLM)
San'doria 9-2 @80
Omega/Ultima @80
Shadows of the Mind ISNM @80

I only play for 1-3 weeks at a time, with 4-7 month breaks in between (I'm only 2 and a half months into this current break). But everytime I come back and recap my RDM, regardless how rusty I am, there's always something new to record. And there's always someone new I can dupe into entering Diorama Abdhaljs - Purgonorgo Isle.
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#48 Mar 17 2011 at 2:28 AM Rating: Decent
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IcookPizza wrote:
At its simplest, Utsusemi is an MP-less way of forcing a mage opponent to lose time, focus, and in most cases, MP.

Many mages work around it just fine.
Some still struggle against it like you cannot believe.
Some of them squeal...


Haha ok it works vs noobs but with 12mp diaga, refresh II will replace that way before your utsu timers are ready again.

I guess shadows are useful when you see "starts casting Blizzard IV" in the log, but thats about the only time I can think of, and we have other options in that situation. (Flat Blade, Stun, Silence, Sleep...)

Edited, Mar 17th 2011 4:47am by K1n371x
#49 Mar 17 2011 at 2:57 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not a big fan of /nin either unless you're setup to melee. The only thing it's really good at is blinking a single non AoE spell such as a nuke, but that's hardly reason enough to sub it. In a situation between RDM vs RDM PvP, there needs to be ground rules otherwise it's going to be a draw. Any enfeebled RDM that isn't asleep should be kiting as they have no chance if para/slow/silence is plaguing them. Gravity is usually a difference maker too. I'm not sold on nuking other mages either unless it's a chainstun kill. That is unless you plan to be cheap and sleep and nuke. It's funny how difficult it is to face off against an equally competent RDM. It's too bad we can't enter a coliseum and challenge any player.
#50 Mar 17 2011 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
In a situation between RDM vs RDM PvP, there needs to be ground rules otherwise it's going to be a draw..........It's funny how difficult it is to face off against an equally competent RDM.


My wife is also RDM. Sometimes we play without silence or sleep, but even then, it's always a very close fight, sometimes lasting the whole 30 minutes without a winner! Some of the most fun I've ever had playing FFXI.
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#51 Mar 17 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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I guess shadows are useful when you see "starts casting Blizzard IV" in the log, but thats about the only time I can think of, and we have other options in that situation. (Flat Blade, Stun, Silence, Sleep...)


I like /BLM for PVP against /NIN for sleepga. Especially against RDM's. Sleepga Dispel then go in and melee the **** out of them. Unless they have a spell interrupt set they are generally fubar. /BLU is pretty good to for headbutt +knock back effect as it will stop casting. Magic DMG isn't a huge issue with native MDB, Shell V, and -MDT gear we can pretty much take several nukes.

RDM/BLU i think is the best for PVP, but /BLM, /NIN are equally as effective. /DNC has some merit (especially in RDM vs RDM or RDM vs BLU RDM vs NIN fights as it is really about MP longevity and removing enfeebles.)

Easiest way to beat a RDM is make them use convert first then lay on the hurt, they are really restricted in options at this point because they must choose to keep defending or try and kill you. Nuking RDM's in RDM v RDM generally lose because of how much MP they cost and how little damage they end up doing.

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