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#1 Jan 04 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm a /nin type of meleein rdm currently with Blau/Joy.

I'm at the point of deciding between building towards a Badelaire +2 or a Khanda 2-4.
Would either be a poor choice? Or what sort of circumstances would make one a better choice over the other?
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#2Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 6:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Both are a poor choice. Stop meleeing if you're going to use that crap, nuking would do more damage.
#3 Jan 04 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Both are a poor choice. Stop meleeing if you're going to use that crap, nuking would do more damage.

So what would be good choices?
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#4 Jan 04 2011 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
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SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Both are a poor choice. Stop meleeing if you're going to use that crap, nuking would do more damage.
So what would be good choices?
Something with cdc.
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#5 Jan 04 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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At this point in the game if you are subbing something that lets you Dual Wield don't even bother main handing a sword unless you can CDC.

Evisceration(Blau Dolch) and Aeolian Edge(Martial Knife and MAB gear) are going to do much more then any other option.

This might be another story if they game us Sanguine Blade natively, but they didn't and our best WS being a 3 hit non crit is a joke. Nearly every other job in the game has better WS options the Rdm does main handing a sword without native sword WSs(including plenty that frankly shouldn't).

also...

Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Both are a poor choice. Stop meleeing if you're going to use that crap, nuking would do more damage.
So what would be good choices?
Something with cdc.


Chriustwo wrote:
I'm at the point of deciding between building towards a Badelaire +2 or a Khanda 2-4.


Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:07pm by SlashAnonymous
#6Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 9:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) meh, thought that was something else. My bad.
#7 Jan 04 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Sanguine is the only WS that I've wholeheartedly invested gear into... so I'm still very new at this kinda stuff!

Which of the following is normally "better"?

+2MAB
...or...
+5INT +5MND

(yes, I know percent mods aren't very comparable to attribute mods)
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#8 Jan 04 2011 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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At least for me iirc Teal beats Morgana's for Sanguine. It's pretty hard to argue MAB vs Int when each point of Int adds 2 damage especially on a WS with a somewhat low base damage. Maybe in abyssea (which I haven't tried yet) where you have a TON of int the MAB might be more valueable, but at least for me outside abyssea when I was testing Sanguine and Aeolian 6 Int + 6 Mnd > 4 MAB. (the opposite for Aeolian though since Aeolian has **** mods and dInt).
#9 Jan 05 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Chriustwo wrote:
I'm a /nin type of meleein rdm currently with Blau/Joy.

I'm at the point of deciding between building towards a Badelaire +2 or a Khanda 2-4.
Would either be a poor choice? Or what sort of circumstances would make one a better choice over the other?



Ignore Rog, he is a moran.

Blau/Joy is fine it is going to be your highest damage output source in Abyssea before getting CDC. CDC is a game breaker because it is a Crit WS that RDM can get naturally without having to sacrifice the **** that is an off hand MA weapon, while keeping a decent damage MH.

Badelaire should be your first sword upgrade. The Joyeuse is still a very strong weapon as far as DPS application and TP gain rates are concerned. (it is .5% less potent than the khanda 2-3*, and likely 2-3% behind the 2-4*.) Once you have CDC you are laughing and can either choose to get the Khanda 2-4 (please see the note) or not worry about it the difference in the end will be barely noticed however.

Another option in the mean time is to work to getting the Dagger that has the 40D Latent: Mercy Stroke, or the new Twilight Dagger (i think) which is also 40D. Which is a nice increase to a 5hit crit WS like evis. But currently in Abyssea CDC is king.


* Note the ToTM MA weapons 2-3, and 2-4 only come out ahead of the joyeuse when WS damage is factored in at a 100% constant rate, this means if you hold TP at the tail end of a mob, or because you are aiming for certain !! they both begin to lose ground to the joyeuse. This is due to the **** low delay (224 vs 262) during the TP phase.


In regards to Rogs second half statement, you will likely out damage your melee via nuking, but since this wasn't your question It is kind of a redundant point. This is due to the scaling of T4 spells vs the scaling of melee damage. However the largest factor in the argument is the bottomless MP factor and the need to never need to rest. However in situations (which are usually rare for a RDM melee because it is still frowned on for some reason, yet DRK's and SAM's still get party sots) where you have 2x March a good melee set with RR atma at the least will give a nuking RDM a run for its money.
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#10 Jan 05 2011 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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#11 Jan 05 2011 at 3:10 AM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Chriustwo wrote:
I'm a /nin type of meleein rdm currently with Blau/Joy.

I'm at the point of deciding between building towards a Badelaire +2 or a Khanda 2-4.
Would either be a poor choice? Or what sort of circumstances would make one a better choice over the other?



Ignore Rog, he is a moran.

Blau/Joy is fine it is going to be your highest damage output source in Abyssea before getting CDC. CDC is a game breaker because it is a Crit WS that RDM can get naturally without having to sacrifice the **** that is an off hand MA weapon, while keeping a decent damage MH.

Badelaire should be your first sword upgrade. The Joyeuse is still a very strong weapon as far as DPS application and TP gain rates are concerned. (it is .5% less potent than the khanda 2-3*, and likely 2-3% behind the 2-4*.) Once you have CDC you are laughing and can either choose to get the Khanda 2-4 (please see the note) or not worry about it the difference in the end will be barely noticed however.

Another option in the mean time is to work to getting the Dagger that has the 40D Latent: Mercy Stroke, or the new Twilight Dagger (i think) which is also 40D. Which is a nice increase to a 5hit crit WS like evis. But currently in Abyssea CDC is king.


* Note the ToTM MA weapons 2-3, and 2-4 only come out ahead of the joyeuse when WS damage is factored in at a 100% constant rate, this means if you hold TP at the tail end of a mob, or because you are aiming for certain !! they both begin to lose ground to the joyeuse. This is due to the **** low delay (224 vs 262) during the TP phase.


In regards to Rogs second half statement, you will likely out damage your melee via nuking, but since this wasn't your question It is kind of a redundant point. This is due to the scaling of T4 spells vs the scaling of melee damage. However the largest factor in the argument is the bottomless MP factor and the need to never need to rest. However in situations (which are usually rare for a RDM melee because it is still frowned on for some reason, yet DRK's and SAM's still get party sots) where you have 2x March a good melee set with RR atma at the least will give a nuking RDM a run for its money.
Your post basically went from ignore me, then to i'm right.
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#12 Jan 05 2011 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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CDC is a monster. I do 2.8k average, and if I use a TA atma I often hit 4.5k-5k fairly often. I have several pics of me breaking 5k.

I don't even use triple attack atma's because i'm afraid of one shotting things for ruby light.

So, to answer your question, Badelaire+2.
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#13 Jan 05 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Badelaire +2 it is. Thanks for the nuke tip though. Maybe if I didn't have blm leveled I would have asked something like "Should I buy spellz?"
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#14 Jan 05 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Just out of curiosity what set do you use for CDC?
#15 Jan 05 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Your post basically went from ignore me, then to i'm right.


You lost your right to an opinion when you confused Badelaire for something else.

Yes, Badelaire is the better option if you already have a Joyeuse. Blau/Joy will suit you just fine for anything not Abyssea related. Upgrade to that if you ever get the chance.
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#16 Jan 05 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Chriustwo wrote:
I'm a /nin type of meleein rdm currently with Blau/Joy.

I'm at the point of deciding between building towards a Badelaire +2 or a Khanda 2-4.
Would either be a poor choice? Or what sort of circumstances would make one a better choice over the other?



Ignore Rog, he is a moran.

Blau/Joy is fine it is going to be your highest damage output source in Abyssea before getting CDC. CDC is a game breaker because it is a Crit WS that RDM can get naturally without having to sacrifice the **** that is an off hand MA weapon, while keeping a decent damage MH.

Badelaire should be your first sword upgrade. The Joyeuse is still a very strong weapon as far as DPS application and TP gain rates are concerned. (it is .5% less potent than the khanda 2-3*, and likely 2-3% behind the 2-4*.) Once you have CDC you are laughing and can either choose to get the Khanda 2-4 (please see the note) or not worry about it the difference in the end will be barely noticed however.

Another option in the mean time is to work to getting the Dagger that has the 40D Latent: Mercy Stroke, or the new Twilight Dagger (i think) which is also 40D. Which is a nice increase to a 5hit crit WS like evis. But currently in Abyssea CDC is king.


* Note the ToTM MA weapons 2-3, and 2-4 only come out ahead of the joyeuse when WS damage is factored in at a 100% constant rate, this means if you hold TP at the tail end of a mob, or because you are aiming for certain !! they both begin to lose ground to the joyeuse. This is due to the **** low delay (224 vs 262) during the TP phase.


In regards to Rogs second half statement, you will likely out damage your melee via nuking, but since this wasn't your question It is kind of a redundant point. This is due to the scaling of T4 spells vs the scaling of melee damage. However the largest factor in the argument is the bottomless MP factor and the need to never need to rest. However in situations (which are usually rare for a RDM melee because it is still frowned on for some reason, yet DRK's and SAM's still get party sots) where you have 2x March a good melee set with RR atma at the least will give a nuking RDM a run for its money.
Your post basically went from ignore me, then to i'm right.


I stand by my initial comment that you are a moron. You didn't answer the question, let alone were oblivious to the items within the question. While your premise may have been correct that nuking currently is likely to out damage an unbuffed melee build (outside of personal buffs), you still fail hard when discussing matters pertaining to melee and RDM. But anything for a +1 right.
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#17 Jan 05 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Default
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Oh sorry, i'll go back to studying the names and stats of every item again, so i never make that mistake again.
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#18 Jan 05 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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thank you. Hey you'd have done the same to anyone else.
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#19 Jan 05 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Oh sorry, i'll go back to studying the names and stats of every item again, so i never make that mistake again.


**** straight.
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#20 Jan 05 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Just out of curiosity what set do you use for CDC?


You're going to have to elaborate a little. Do you mean atma's? Gear?

I gear for attack/DEX for Cygne. I tend to focus more on DEX though. I have +32 at the moment, i'd have +36 if I ever finish MKD, and i'd have +39 if I ever got RDM AF1+1 hands. Don't think it's likely i'll ever get it higher than that unless I offhand a ToM DEX sword, or something.

Razed Ruins beef's Cygne more than it does most weaponskills because DEX is it's mod, and it's a pretty huge DEX mod.
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#21 Jan 06 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Sure, what 3 Atmas do you use or would like to use for CDC?
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#22 Jan 06 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Sure, what 3 Atmas do you use or would like to use for CDC?


I use Razed Ruin/Gnarled Horn/Sanguine Scythe usually. Sometimes i'll use Voracious Violet over Sanguine Scythe depending on my mood. SS and GH make pretty consistent CDC's. I average about 2.8k on IT's.

The most powerful setup would be offhanding a ToM STR or DEX sword (The attack would help overall, but the DEX would help spike Cygne's numbers, so whatever I guess) and using Razed Ruin/A&O/Apoc. This would give your offhand and mainhand a 1.5 attack rate which would surpass any multi hit weapon you could use. Your WS's would also average higher because you'd be using a much much higher damage offhand. You'd one shot things a lot though, so unless you didn't care about ruby light's I wouldn't do something like this.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 10:48am by Zafire
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#23 Jan 06 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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I'm wondering if Scorpion Queen would be better then Gnarled Horn. I know in general Store TP isn't that amazing of a stat for sword but even still +20% is a lot, especially when you have as beastly a WS as CDC.
#24 Jan 06 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Scorpion queen is listed as 10% Crit rate while Gnarled horn is 20%. I don't think 20 Store TP would be better than 10% more crit rating. Gnarled horn also has the benefit of agility which is now a stat which acts like subtle blow, and that's always a good thing.
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All SJ's capped for LVL99!

#25 Jan 06 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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If you take a look at my screenshots above, I have (almost) capped crit rate with rr/gh/dd.

When you take into account AGI affects TP feed now, it's pretty hot for low manning nms

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 6:08pm by Logiks
#26 Jan 06 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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Logiks wrote:
If you take a look at my screenshots above, I have (almost) capped crit rate with rr/gh/dd.

When you take into account AGI affects TP feed now, it's pretty hot for low manning nms


...Atma caps at + 50% critical hit rate
#27 Jan 06 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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Well poop.
#28 Jan 07 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
...Atma caps at + 50% critical hit rate


Might not be 100% verified.
#29 Jan 07 2011 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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It's statistics, nothing can ever be 100% verified lol.
#30 Jan 07 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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It can if you just eyeball it right Fyn.
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#31 Jan 07 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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It can if you just eyeball it right Fyn.


That would require me having the 3 appropriate atma to eyeball it with.
#32 Jan 13 2011 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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Just a clarification, Atma caps at + 95% critical hit rate
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