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Quick gear question (Melee)Follow

#1 Jan 04 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Chiv chain vs. Spectacles.

martial knife/Joy/ nothing useful in ammo =(
AF hat/-spaceinquestion-/suppa/moldy or fang or something not relevant.
scorp harness/wise gloves/snipers/snipers
NQ amemet/life belt/vendors slops/wise feet

Feel free to tear me apart, it's educational. I have evis and savage blade, but not death blossom. I'm currently using spectacles.

I love you all. =D
#2 Jan 04 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends on whether you get fstr+1 from chiv.
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#3 Jan 04 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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is there any reliable way for me to tell when i would have that +1 against the majority of monsters?
#4 Jan 04 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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Not without knowing how much vit the mob has.
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#5 Jan 04 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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If you have the ACP mini-expansion, don't even bother with spectacles. It's a little tedious, but still possible to get an augmented coeurl gorget with Acc+8. (I got one within a day of getting an augmented Beak Mantle with Acc+6, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually very common.)

Couldn't tell you about one vs the other though. Situational, etc etc. Go listen to Rog, he likes talking.
#6 Jan 04 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Depends on whether you get fstr+1 from chiv.
If you don't know the target's VIT you could just assume that each point of STR has a 25% chance of raising fSTR, meaning that 75% of the time you will get fSTR+1 out of chiv. chain. 75% of DMG+1 is estimated at .75 damage (hold on you preemptive twats, that's estimated), which is still going to wind up better than acc+2 unless your hitrate is utterly horrible (and if it is, stop meleeing).
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#7 Jan 04 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Xauna wrote:
Couldn't tell you about one vs the other though. Situational, etc etc. Go listen to Rog, he likes talking.

I actually hate talking.
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#8 Jan 06 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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Pure DD (No Relic)

Main: Blau
Offhand: Joy
Head: Turban
Body: SH +1
Neck: PCC/Chiv
Ears: Suppa/Hollow
Rings: Lava's/Kusha's
Hands: Dusk
Back: Forager's/Amemet +1/Chucu
Waist: Swift
Legs: ASA Pants with Acc 7 Haste 3
Feet: Dusk

Something to shoot for. No end game required.

Still gonna need sushi and possibly swap haste for acc vs anything high level.

PS
swap the snippers for woodsmans. you need the def, not the eva.
Edited, Jan 6th 2010 4:02am by TheSeated

Edited, Jan 6th 2010 4:04am by TheSeated
#9 Jan 11 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the feedback everyone~ =)

Quote:
swap the snippers for woodsmans. you need the def, not the eva.


Well, i'm also leveling ninja, which is currently 58. Would you say the same holds true for that job?
#10 Jan 11 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Default
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OK I'm going to take a step back, what are you fighting?

If we are talking about campaign (which is about the only place I would recommend RDM melee) then you accuracy should be capped (assmune capped skill and composure) so:

* Sell the martial knife and just use the joyeuse.
* Use Genbu's Shield or Sentinel Shield depending on how confident you are of your defence survivability
* Sub Warrior and spam Vorpal Blade
* Using phalanx and Stoneskin you can tank any of the NQ mobs found in campaign
* Aim for max haste

My 'dream' campaign build would be something like:

Joy
Sentinel
Smart grenade
Turban
Bull necklace (4-6 fSTR :D)
Brutal
Merman's
Goliard Saio
Dusk (+1)
Rajas (reduces the number of hits to reach 100TP)
Patronus (a little help for tanking)
Foragers
Swift (V.belt)
Nashira
Dusk (+1)

This only really works in Campaign, but its good fun. Near to capped gear haste (depending on how many whiteboxes you have) another 15% from the spell combined with 15% DA and Joyeuse's naturally high DA rate makes for some awesome DoT and Vorpal Blade is far better than anything RDM gets natively.
#11 Jan 11 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aiyl wrote:
Thanks for the feedback everyone~ =)

Quote:
swap the snippers for woodsmans. you need the def, not the eva.


Well, i'm also leveling ninja, which is currently 58. Would you say the same holds true for that job?


I doubt you'll miss the EVA, especially since you have a career of Colibri ahead of you. Pecking Flurry says hi, etc..

Honestly, the -DEF isn't why I made the swap to Woodsman's long ago. It's the -Dark Resist letting sleeps land easily and Drains from spells or undead being much more brutal.
#12 Jan 11 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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I'll make the ring swap then~ =3


What I Fight?
I have a tendency to fight the statues in sky solo. I actually solo alot, really... >.> other than that, I do campaign and i help friends push through ZM fights and suchlike. I tend to be in hella low man situations, and occasionally i even melee in nyzul isle.

Uh... I also kill test dropping mobs of all varieties as the need arises~ *shrugs*
#13 Jan 11 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Honestly, the -DEF isn't why I made the swap to Woodsman's long ago. It's the -Dark Resist letting sleeps land easily and Drains from spells or undead being much more brutal.
Or the price. You can get 2 Woodsmans for the price of one Sniper's on my server.
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#14 Jan 12 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
If we are talking about campaign (which is about the only place I would recommend RDM melee...)


Ok I'll just go ahead and state you're already on shaky ground with me with that statement, (If anyone knows me they know why.) but that's not what I want to talk about it. The venomous hatred towards anything RDM melee is a cold and dead subject to me.

I've been pretty teed off with how horrible Red Mages have been playing in campaign and you've just hit some things I want to comment on.

Quote:
* Sell the martial knife and just use the joyeuse.


You can main hand Joy and shield if you wish but do not get rid of Martial until you have Blau. With /nin Energy drain is just far too much if a life saver when you're straining your mana (And if you're contributing enough, Mana does become an issue in the long haul.)

Quote:

* Use Genbu's Shield or Sentinel Shield depending on how confident you are of your defense survivability


You seriously won't miss 1% haste in campaign. The +12 attack from Valk's Shield beats out the damage difference performance wise and assists in your weapon skills. If you insist in single wielding, it's Genbu's and Valk
Quote:

* Sub Warrior and spam Vorpal Blade


If you want to eat dirt constantly and have your sub pretty much wind up being worthless, sub Warrior. In the end Defender, offers very very little to the table compared to Cocoon. Provoke isn't needed or really desired. DA does little when using Joyeuse.

For Vorpral Spamming, sub Blue Mage. It has better survivability as you gain cheap heals in addition to a better defense buff, as well as Auto Regen and the ability to equip Undead Killer for those times Shadowhand shows up.

Alternately you can also sub Paladin to much the same effect. Plus flash for focused evasion and some hate gathering.

An interesting trick, if you're wanting to attract less attention to yourself yet still provide a strong impact, is to sub Dancer. Dia III + Box Step really cranks up the overall damage, and can be done quickly. Enspell II line works well with Joyuse and a Samba of your choice (even more so in a party.) and the TP related cures work much in the same way Energy Drain would for Mana return and conservation to larger effect.

Quote:
* Using phalanx and Stoneskin you can tank any of the NQ mobs found in campaign


I personally however sub Ninja most of the time. The ability to focus evade most attacks, including magic. Is incredibly helpful. It can provide the breath you need to regain you stoneskin in tight situations, and can easily allow you to tank certain bosses and off-take others, making you the ideal paladin partner. To say nothing in how it extends your Stoneskin longevity.

It also allows you to main hand a dagger if you so wish, providing you with Evisceration and Energy Drain both for usage in which both in terms of spike damage and utility in Mana restoration.

But it's costly in terms of Shihei. So unless you have a pocket crafter or like spending money on consumables, I don't recommend it to everyone. But there is something to be said for chainspell-shadows when you're in a tight spot and low on mana.

Quote:
* Aim for max haste


In the end it's plainly apparent you were going for a DD build, which really isn't the point of Red Mage in campaign, IMO. Granted, you can do whatever you want, but you contribute the most simply by being a survivalist and taking control of the battlefield. 2-3 Red Mages playing this way can easily turn the tables on almost any Campaign fight. (2-3 RDMs and a Survivalist WHM is ideal.)


To that point, there's just better survivability options to Warrior, especially when you intend on sleep/grav/binding additional targets when you're dealing damage on one. That tends to attract some attention your way. And sub Warrior just doesn't hold up in those situations in my experience.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 1:57am by Hyrist
#15 Jan 12 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Quote:

* Sub Warrior and spam Vorpal Blade


If you want to eat dirt constantly and have your sub pretty much wind up being worthless, sub Warrior. In the end Defender, offers very very little to the table compared to Cocoon. Provoke isn't needed or really desired. DA does little when using Joyeuse.

For Vorpral Spamming, sub Blue Mage. It has better survivability as you gain cheap heals in addition to a better defense buff, as well as Auto Regen and the ability to equip Undead Killer for those times Shadowhand shows up.


Actually, I've had great success going RDM/WAR in campaign. It's a fun way to mix it up from my usual RDM/PLD (I rarely use RDM/BLU in campaign these days), and Provoke is sweet for telling everyone "Yeah, I want hate on this mob, stop trying to pull it off me".

Although, it's probably not for people without good -PDT% builds. I currently use Genbu/Cheviot/Jelly/Patronus (started using Shantotto pants instead of Goliard once I got them) for -30% PDT and -35% at night. I have a Louhi's Mask, but rarely bother to pull it out of storage for campaign. If you don't have a strong -PDT% set, /WAR probably isn't for you, but if you do, give it a whirl! You may find you like it quite a bit.

In the end, though, RDM/PLD is where it's at. It takes more attention than RDM/BLU, but the hate-holding improvement is totally worth it. On top of that, being able to Sentinel->Convert under fire without any real danger to yourself is pretty sweet.
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#16 Jan 12 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I am not interested in the RDM melee debate, I personally don't melee on RDM in any group situation. I have meleed a few mission fights while solo (WotG dragon fight for example) and in that sort of situation I sub NIN. I know some RDM do melee, and some of them do it well, but that's not a discussion for now.

My set was aimed at campaign, and aimed at tanking 1 mob most of the time, but with the capability of tanking 2-3 for shorter periods.

I aim to let the Fort 'super tank' the mobs and then pull them off 1 at a time and kill them.

By subbing WAR I get DA (which as you mention isn't great with a joyeuse, but very nice if you are using any other weapon) but I also get Warcry and Berserk both of which are great buffs to your WS and DoT damage. I use Berserk nearly every time it is up and never need defender. I also do have a ~30% PDT set (day/night blah blah) for real oh shi moments (but they are very rare)

The only times I ever die is when I pull a link of 4+ mobs or try tanking the boss. I am not sure why I need more survivability? Maybe if I needed to consistently tank 3+ mobs or the Boss; but all the mobs will be on the fort, so it 'holds' them and I am not interested in tanking the boss, they aren't fun.

By using enspells I am able to work towards capping Melee and Magic Damage given, Damage taken and HP cured all at the same time. At the end of the day, I am there to get EXP, not 'turn the tide of war'

I can (if needed) hold hate off of nearly any other player (through damage and spamming dispel/sleep etc) so I act as a solid tank for the lower level players to work with. I also throw out a few cures and hastes for the people around me, so I am not being 'selfish'.

As for the shield comment, you are right, I didn't think about that one (I only have the 2 rare/ex shields I listed as I am not too worried about meleeing).

@ The RDM's in general:
You can gear RDM melee as a DD/DoT job or as a Tank job in campaign (or a combination of both), I am sure both would make good exp, but please don't be one of those RDM that sub nin, wear full AF and call themselves a RDM melee.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 4:47am by Argettio
#17 Jan 12 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know I prefer SAM/DNC for campaign, but when I did go on RDM, I'd basically /NIN and rock the swordchucks with my Fencer's active and 301 Enhancing on En1s. My /NIN style never really did emphasize hiding behind shadows, instead holding Ni to recast Stoneskins when needed. So, while I kept Phalanx up mainly as an MP longevity tool, using Stoneskin itself actually diminishes your EXP gain in the short term paired with high -PDT. However, with a solid Haste/DD build, odds are you'll cap out damage EXP in a few minutes of steady fighting with high haste. Only debuff I'd actively cast is Slow (again MP longevity, and mob TP moves will probably be seen more than actual swings with a lot of people whacking it), while Ice Spikes would cover Paralyze. Dia may be nice for upping damage, by Campaign's something we want to last longer as opposed to shorter thanks to its EXP system.
#18 Jan 12 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
Although, it's probably not for people without good -PDT% builds. I currently use Genbu/Cheviot/Jelly/Patronus (started using Shantotto pants instead of Goliard once I got them) for -30% PDT and -35% at night. I have a Louhi's Mask, but rarely bother to pull it out of storage for campaign. If you don't have a strong -PDT% set, /WAR probably isn't for you, but if you do, give it a whirl! You may find you like it quite a bit.

In the end, though, RDM/PLD is where it's at. It takes more attention than RDM/BLU, but the hate-holding improvement is totally worth it. On top of that, being able to Sentinel->Convert under fire without any real danger to yourself is pretty sweet.


This is basically what I do. I still rock RDM/BLU though. I found the following build to be excessively effective against normal mobs and I can still swap to full PDT-%(and cast Cocoon) and effectively tank most NMs:
Joyeuse Genbu         Blank   Sturm's Report 
Turban  Shield Collar Suppa   Brutal 
Goliard Dusk Gloves   Jelly   Patronus 
Cheviot Swift Belt    Goliard Dusk +1
There's a few upgrades possible yet (Umbra cape, Dusk Gloves +1, Speed Belt, ASA pants Haste/Acc) but that build rarely loses hate with just normal swinging. I usually get enhanced food duration and pop Mithkas. I love Shield Collar btw, that 25 Vit destroys incoming damage. I don't even bother with stoneskin unless I'm fighting 4 or more mobs at once.

ETA: I'm not sure if you do this or not, but since you go /WAR there is a trick I use that you might find useful. If you don't like riding berserk up all the time, you can berserk + WS then pop defender to cancel out berserk. When you get TP again, cancel defender, then WS and finally cancel berserk. You can get 2 Berserked WS (per 5 minutes) this way.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 4:10pm by Ranzera
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#19 Jan 12 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I think this is the longest thread to ever result from me posting. ;3 thanks for all the interest!

For the record, when i'm not subbing ninja, i go /PLD for the most part. I don't actually have warrior leveled to 37 yet, although it's getting there. slowly. I've actually been focusing my energy on leveling Dancer (when i'm not leveling ninja, which will be my second 75 someday :D ), having read some other threads featuring Hyrist. >.>

I do not yet have a Genbu's shield, i've had bad luck with sky shells in general.


Also, I think it's -somewhat- safe to say that most people reading threads like this aren't meleeing in full AF.



#20 Jan 12 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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Aiyl wrote:
I think this is the longest thread to ever result from me posting. ;3 thanks for all the interest!

For the record, when i'm not subbing ninja, i go /PLD for the most part. I don't actually have warrior leveled to 37 yet, although it's getting there. slowly. I've actually been focusing my energy on leveling Dancer (when i'm not leveling ninja, which will be my second 75 someday :D ), having read some other threads featuring Hyrist. >.>

I do not yet have a Genbu's shield, i've had bad luck with sky shells in general.


Also, I think it's -somewhat- safe to say that most people reading threads like this aren't meleeing in full AF.





It's pretty easy to farm Genbu's pop items with 1 or 2 friends. Genbu himself is even easier. Bring a couple friends just to speed up the fight. Keep Bio on him, it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too. Throw in nukes with extra mp. Sub NIN for shadows and bring an RR item just in case he gets lucky at some point.
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#21 Jan 12 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Ranzera wrote:
It's pretty easy to farm Genbu's pop items with 1 or 2 friends. Genbu himself is even easier. Bring a couple friends just to speed up the fight. Keep Bio on him, it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too. Throw in nukes with extra mp. Sub NIN for shadows and bring an RR item just in case he gets lucky at some point.


Genbu is easy, but you're going to have a difficult time landing Poison without Elemental Seal (he might resist even with it, I've never tried), since he's Water-based. I think he's straight-up immune, but I've never bothered to verify it, since I rarely do sky anymore (and usually only ever come help my LS with Byakko or Kirin).
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#22 Jan 12 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Ranzera wrote:
it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too.

All sky gods have over 9000 resistance to the element they are strong to. Not even with ES will poison land more than 5% of the time.
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#23 Jan 12 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too.

All sky gods have over 9000 resistance to the element they are strong to. Not even with ES will poison land more than 5% of the time.


*crushes his scouter* well that answers that.
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#24 Jan 12 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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Ranzera wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too.

All sky gods have over 9000 resistance to the element they are strong to. Not even with ES will poison land more than 5% of the time.


*crushes his scouter* well that answers that.


Smiley: lol

Seriously, Rog, I love ya, but cut that over 9000 thing out already.
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#25 Jan 13 2010 at 5:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Solrain wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too.

All sky gods have over 9000 resistance to the element they are strong to. Not even with ES will poison land more than 5% of the time.


*crushes his scouter* well that answers that.


Smiley: lol

Seriously, Rog, I love ya, but cut that over 9000 thing out already.

Honestly, to have floored land rate with ES, they very well may actually have over 9000 resistance.
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#26 Jan 13 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Solrain wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Ranzera wrote:
it's been a long time since I fought him but I think Poison will stick too.

All sky gods have over 9000 resistance to the element they are strong to. Not even with ES will poison land more than 5% of the time.


*crushes his scouter* well that answers that.


Smiley: lol

Seriously, Rog, I love ya, but cut that over 9000 thing out already.

Honestly, to have floored land rate with ES, they very well may actually have over 9000 resistance.


That's actually a very good point.
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#27 Jan 15 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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I suppose at this point all i can really ask is how hard it is to solo the winterstone and gem of the north, and what the optimal subs are. I don't really have many friends with sky access these days (the awesome people who'd duo/trio this with me have quit, remainder don't have the balls to do anything with less than a full party) so i'd appreciate whatever information you can lend me.

I did look over the wiki, but it's always alot better to get the information first hand, and compare.
#28 Jan 15 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose at this point all i can really ask is how hard it is to solo the winterstone and gem of the north, and what the optimal subs are. I don't really have many friends with sky access these days (the awesome people who'd duo/trio this with me have quit, remainder don't have the balls to do anything with less than a full party) so i'd appreciate whatever information you can lend me.

I did look over the wiki, but it's always alot better to get the information first hand, and compare.


Ola Grand is pretty annoying. Ro'Maeve Water can be an annoying drop on its own. My own drop rates are like between 1/25 and 1/100 kills, and because the pots are RDM, you have to pay a little more attention when you melee them. (If you intend to Melee, that's my preferred method for Aura Statues and Pots)

Ola Grand itself is not a fun solo on RDM. It's easy to kite since it stops to cast a lot, but there's magic agro all over so you'd have to find a place to stop and cast on the mob out of Magic Agro range then return to running laps. It would pretty much take forever.

iirc Rog did it on his 71?RNG using bolts. It's likely much easier on a job like RNG or THF spamming bolts, but either way having to kill 3 versions of Ola with ranged attacks only is going to take 2~3 hours.

Zipanca on the other hand is a pretty easy solo.

Here's a link to a youtube video of the fight someone linked to on these forums a while back. RDM Zipanca solo

tl;dr Get a group for Ola, and Zip's easy prey.
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#29 Jan 15 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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SingBismark wrote:
iirc Rog did it on his 71?RNG using bolts. It's likely much easier on a job like RNG or THF spamming bolts, but either way having to kill 3 versions of Ola with ranged attacks only is going to take 2~3 hours.

72. Took me about 1.5 hours, with horrible gear.

I've done it on rdm as well, which took around 3 hours.
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#30 Jan 15 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the video, that does look easy~ =3 It also mostly disuaded me from trying to go /sch, like i was considering, seeing how often his binds decided to not hold for full duration.

As for olla, i guess i'll just have to dig through my friend list and linkshells until i find a couple people willing to help. ^^
#31 Jan 18 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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In campaign, can't you just full time Bull necklace instead for the +25 str?

#32 Jan 19 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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HadesDoink wrote:
In campaign, can't you just full time Bull necklace instead for the +25 str?


You certainly can.
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