Your Latest and Greatest Red Mage Accomplishment!!Follow

Maybe use hq body, and nq legs?

Yes, there are things all jobs can equip, but how anal are we going to be about maximization? As I can pretty much guarantee the "best" stuff won't be funneled off to melee RDMs. Hell, PLDs and BLUs likely wouldn't be a high priority, either.

For simplicity's sake, let's say they're all using the same waist (Warwolf), back (Cuch), rings (Strigoi/Rajas), earrings (Flame/Brutal), and a gorget. I get +22 STR, +15 DEX, +3 ATK, and +5 ACC before converting STR/DEX to their respective perks, too.

Now, if you wanted to pimp out STR, give them all Varingian Helm (+12) and Heafoc Mitts (+13). Not very likely, though. For head slots, PLDs can use Heca (+11) as an alternative. BLUs can use Aias Bonnet (+8). RDM's is reasonable alternative is Gnadbhod (+6), with Maat's Cap (+7) for the hardcore (which we know you're not), and Voyager Sallet (+4) for the average. The poor PLD will always have Perle (+5). Some of these have other mods like DEX, ATK, or ACC, but hey, I'll play your game and call ACC a wash. Overall, I'd say PLD's the winner in the head slot.

Moving on to bodies. RDM's STR options here are miserable. It's Nara/Vishnu only for +3/4 respectively. BLU has Aurore (+4), Enkidu (+5), AF(+1) (+3/5), Mirke (+5), and Nara/Vishnu again. In comes PLD to kick ass again. I won't list them all, but plenty have +5, Perle is +8, some have +11 and +12, Grim is +15/16. Only thing an average PLD may lose out on is a BLU who augmented Mirke with +10 ATK/ACC.

Hands are a fair fight with Heafoc ruled out. All three can use Alky's for +11.

STR in the leg slot doesn't see too many options for both RDM and BLU. Even for PLD, it's more likely they'll use it to shore up ACC. All 3 jobs can use some subligar with +8 STR, but they carry -10 ACC. PLD pulls ahead with options having both STR/ACC with Bahram Cuisses (5/12) while BLU's brother would be their AF3 pants (+8 STR) and their relic pants their little brother (3 STR/5 ACC). RDM? Well, you could use Dusk for ATK, Oily for ACC, or maybe you could've modified ASA pants with ACC, which isn't a shabby idea paired with the Haste option.

Feet for BLU has a number of +3/4 options. RDM's best is +3. PLD gets +5 from Perle as the poor man's. Clout boasts +9. Heca has +6 and they also have numerous +3 options.

Now, I dunno about you, but I see a lot of situations where you "average" RDM is gonna be in last place here against average others. As gear improves, PLDs pull further ahead on physical WS. RDM's physical WS options above don't exactly boast much DEX to help with Vorpal's crit rate if you're even subbed to use it while Perle/Heca carries that in modest amounts and BLUs can get their own share via Enkidu, Aurore, and others.

My claim is that physical WS don't exactly play to our strengths as healthy balances of stats are more difficult for us to achieve. We've seen Zaf talk about CDC and saying it's better than DB. That's cool. I don't doubt that. I'm glad, even. However, until he fiddles with gear (most likely DEX heavy) to see how it may differ to the set up I know he has, it stands to reason that PLD and BLU will outperform us on physical WS that aren't otherwise quirky. I know he's trying to get Razed Ruin Atma, too, which is a good move and something I've been trying to push my LS toward, as well.

If you wanna over-dramaticize my choice of "suffer" as a word to compare our gear to others, by all means keep doing so. All those little stats we don't get add up, though, and is more than enough fuel to get the parser crowd chirping while others just continue the blanket assertion that RDM melee offers nothing. If anything, consider my word choice an unspoken desire for better gear for us... which isn't a new request on my end, either.

Atonement PLD on high-end targets.

^this

In other news

Razed Ruin: Mine

So, for the purpose of your argument, BLU spells count as magical damage (even when they don't), but enspells don't? That's some good analysis, there.

I just use Assault Jerkin for WS piece. On BLU or RDM. +18 attack is a pretty good chunk of attack, and I really think +18 attack would do a hell of a lot more then +3 or +4 str would.

RDM has BLU beat meleeing. When it comes to overall damage, BLU would win, naturally. We have access to the same exact swords they do, plus we get enspells. There is really nothing they have on us at all when it comes to melee. They also do not get a haste body as far as I know, where RDM can wear goliard.

edit

nvm, BLU can wear nashmira body. Goliard's still better though.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 11:41pm by Zafire

Have fun.
Of course, that's all irrelevant.
Mavi Kuvak. :(

Nope apparantly taking things like that into consideration isn't fair, especially when you completely ignore that BLU has a lot more melee boosting factors than RDM but don't take my word for it....



By which of course I assume means Haste, Enspells, Composure, which is the same thing as saying Animating Wall, Spell Traits: ATK and DA, and of course Acc bonus, but fancier.

Sorry I just don't buy into the woe is us gambit. We are mathematically superior in melee because we have better gear options, with the same weapon options. In practice we lag behind but thats cuz DD BLU's and DD PLD's don't know what a Cure spell is, and if someone dies its the RDM's fault, not the PLD or BLU that each have a (Cure 3+ equivalent).

Just saying, we are fine by comparison we will out melee damage our nearest competitors, they balance it out with better damage elsewhere, in the case of PLD with Weaponskills (physical) and BLU spell damage. Thus we become one big ball of mediocre Damage.

So like, I press the button to get into the "What is our purpose" thread and I see a long discussion about RDM vs BLU melee and people occasionally calling each other names.

I decide I've had enough of that for now and want some cool pics of drops or w/e and so I press the button to get into the "Your Latest and Greatest Red Mage Accomplishment!!" thread, and lo and behold... here you guys are again. Was a bit confused there for a minute thinking I'd accidentally gone into the same thread again, but after double checking... no, no I didn't lol.

Not my forums or anything, but can't you at least try to stick to one thread when derailing? >.<

Soloed Bastok 9-2.

Obtained AF+1 hat and Goliard Saio.

Apparently I got sage too.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 11:36pm by StylinOfGilgamesh

How difficult were those to get.

I am convinced Chant du Cygne ignores level and does damage based entirely on mob defense. Chant du Cygne does 1100-1250 on level 60's, Death Blossom does 900-1k. Then I fight IT Lizards in Misraeux(sp?) where my Death Blossoms do 400~, and my Cygne's are doing 700-1.1k without a double attack. That makes absolutely no sense. I fought about fifty IT lizards or so too. Later that night I was doing VT Tonberry's in Konschtat to help my friend with her key item, and every cygne was in the 750-1.2k range on the BLM mobs, where Death Blossom was 500-600. There is absolutely no reason for that other then it simply ignores level difference. Maybe i'm wrong, idk. It sure as hell feels that way though.

I'm an abyssea gimp too, only +10 stats for the enhancements, and no atma's yet. Really need to finish ASA.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 4:22pm by Zafire

or just spend 10 minutes in ballista areas with a friend.

you don't need exact numbers all you need to determine is if the WS changes based on the DEF of the mob. a RDM/BLU would be a good test target for pro 5 and cocoon.

To me it sounds like the WS has a wonky stat boost to it. Thats the only reason I can think it logically can maintain a high rate of DMG by comparison. Something like a 1.5x ATK value. Would explain the almost 2:1 damage difference at high levels vs low levels (where you likely capped out the total D.)

In both cases you would see them close on level 60 mobs as it would cap the pdif most likely why you see a damage difference of only about 200 (over 3 hits that is only 70DMG or so. 50/hit if you are DW.) If it does provide a 1.5X attack mod, then that would explain why it still peaks very high as you move up in level of mob while DB drops.

I think that is more likely than an ignores def other wise you should see the same damage on all mobs regardless of level as your pDif would always be capped.

Which would explain the likely difference as the levels progress. I put my money on an ATK multiplier not a def avoidance.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 11:36pm by rdmcandie

I just think it ignores the level correction. Your PDIF takes a 0.05 hit for every level the mob is above you. I'm saying that Cygne ignores that. So you'd do the same damage to an EM crab that you would to an IT Lizard (Similar defense). It doesn't ignore attack or defence.

I did a quick test on Wajaom bee's. My attack on RDM isn't capped on them without food or dia III. Death Blossom was in the 800-900 range, Cygne was in the 850-1k range. Dia III and DB is 950-1k again, and cygne is 1.1-1.2k. If it had an attack or defense multiplier my attack would've been capped on Cygne.

I'm doubting it myself, but the numbers I was putting up on *IT* Lizards last night was just insane. I did a few Death Blossoms just to see what the numbers were like too. 400-450 compared to 750 minimum? And it's only a 150~ dmg difference on level 60's? That just doesn't make any damn sense. And cygne and DB both seem to take a hit just as equally on weaker stuff when I don't use Dia III or eat food. Was helping my friend with some trials earlier. Just did a few quick bee check's to make sure. I know exactly what my I need to cap attack on them.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 3:24am by Zafire

Ya sure. I'm doing WoE right now, i'll vert and keep my hp at like 200 and pop it and see what it's like.

This WS has potential to do well over 2k if you got 2 crits and a double attack. One crit or DA puts me at 1475ish on lvl 60's.

I'll edit the result in this post in an hr or so.

nah, did a Cygne with 93hp and it was 660 damage to a WoE crab. Nothing unusual

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 5:28am by Zafire

Could be that it ignores mob level, never thought about that. IT i think is 8 levels above us which is -.40 with lvl correction or so. Which means on a three hit+1 DW that would give you a 1.6 increase in Damage. Adding Crits would give a near perfect 100% increase which would explain the huge change at IT.

EDT just for clarity 100% implies a 100% increase over DB thus resulting in the 2x damage effect Zaf has seen.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 11:54pm by rdmcandie

Estoqueur's Fuseau +1: O

That fat galka can now go find someone else to mooch off of.

Finally got my cape.

Wherwetrice stopped dropping WHM only finally? Grats! =D

It's easy. Had around 12 people when i got it, but awhile ago i tried it with rdm/nin, brd/whm, blm/rdm, and it was easy, other than the terrorga->thundaga that wiped us at 4%. We would have won np if the brd was further away.