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#77 May 07 2004 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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>2. I am wondering have you done any BCNM's as rdm and would you say they are a good choice for it? BCnm 40 mainly but info about 50,60, BCNM's (if you have done them of course) would be useful also. In-game I am mainly told that rdm is not part of an ideal party setup for it (rather like drk).

I've done dozens myself and a rdm is just fine. For 40, we usually act as the BRD's healer, with backup in mind. In one of the 50s we are practically essential to keep the other mobs busy since they won't sleep. In the 60 we are also near essential mostly for refresh.
BTW, whoever said DRK is not good in BCNM is a twit. DRK are very good in the BCNM, bringing in 2 interrupts (stun and weapon bash). Mostly the tanks are the unnecessary ones in the 40, but can still contribute. Really, if you want the ideal BCNM 40 party, get 6 SMN's together, and every one of them blow their 2hr and nuke the mobs into oblivion. My server had one such party do bcnm 40 in 1 minute 14 seconds.


>4. I know you have to kill Maat for the last genkai, and you said that as an elvaan (or galkan) rdm it would be impossible to win. Is this really true?

No, it isn't. In fact, look down the forum a bit and you will see one of the Maat topics has a strategy from a successful Elvaan RDM to do it. As a galkan you're going to have to blow that much more money doing it, but I would bet it is still possible, but frankly you've made your life very tough.

Edited, Fri May 7 12:17:44 2004 by Derekloffin
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Subs: BLM 40, NIN 37, SMN 37, DRK 37, THF 37,
WAR 37, BRD 40, BLU 41
Other: MNK 17, RNG 5
ZM13, CoP 8-2
#78 May 07 2004 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to add a suggestion for training various skills that lag as we progress, and I apologize if anyone has brought this up (too much to read thoroughly).

If you have a LS, and you should, you will be spending a good chuck of time hanging out in Eldieme as people progress to 50. Before and after you get your papyrus, always come back to assist them. First of all, that's nice of you (don't be a jerk). Second, it is the single best opportunity to practice skills I've come across in ages.

Basically, since we had plenty of manpower, I advised my shellmates to consider practicing a lagged skill rather than really tearing into the Liches. Reason being - we'd kill too fast, run out of liches, and find ourselves sitting around or beating up Mummies just for kicks. And no matter how you play it, you know you're going to be there a LONG time.

Now that you have a monk with a staff, and your paladin and dark knight friends are working up their greatsword skills, and the BLM is debuffing while the WHM is nuking, the mobs are living slightly longer. You have plenty of time to work on dagger, dark magic, and even healing - I personally gained 10 in my shamefully lagged healing skill in an hour by making a /ma "Cure" <t> macro and nuking the liches silly with regular Cure1, which is amusingly decent damage with the short cast time (I even hit a magic burst on accident for 35 dmg :P).

Tonight, I go at it with Bio to raise my dark skill (soon I'll have Aspir with my sub, so this will be important), as 2 more LS mates need a paper. All the while, of course, I'll have my ratty old Decurion's Dagger out, and it is approaching cap. Also, I'm keeping blink, stoneskin, and phalanx on continuously to prevent Blood Saber from prolonging the fight, so my Enhancing magic is capped (which I consider extremely important), save for the fact that I just levelled. I already have my papyrus, but I'm very happy to go back for some free, safe practice.

And yeah, excellent guide. It's everything I've ever wanted to say to all of those cowering, swordless pink mages and the misguided enspell warriors out there.
#79 May 07 2004 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Whacking NMs for money is most efficient with a 15 THF sub. That is why I suggest doing it later to make your farming more efficient.

Maat is a MP endurance match. While doing it with Elvaan is possible (I can't imagine how a Galka could succeed), it requires an immense investment in gear to bring them up to par with other races and their INT penalty will hurt alot in nuking. Incidentally Tarus have it made during this fight since they are little MP balls anyway.

For all the strategies I've seen, it amazes me that nobody ever suggested a Blue Cotehardie for it ... the extra 40 MP, 5 INT, and other benefits should be very helpful in whacking that ****. I'll add in a strat guide for humes once I whack him, and I don't anticipate it'll take more than a few tries with a good strategy in place. Many people that fail alot early do so out of bad luck (I hate luck battles) or lack of advice on how to win, though even with a good strategy Elvaan will have it rough.
#80 May 07 2004 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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this is a very nice guide. but has managed to scare me. im sittin at 40RDM/20BLM right now with 1800tnl. from reading most of your guide i realized i cant afford this classes expenses.i got the PS2 version when it 1st came out and to this day i have no source of income at all. its a wonder how i afforded dispel and my current(crap) gear. i really do like RDM alot but i this rate i might have to give up on it. your guide was a great read tho. i can see how it has helped you become the seeked RDM on your server.keep up the good work
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#81 May 07 2004 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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In order to get my finances together I took off a month of levelling in the 40s and did nothing but fish allowing me to start putting together the gear I needed to do things properly. The only jobs more expensive than red mage is ninja and ranger, assuming they use proper ammunition and tools. Not easy, but doable if you take the time to make money.
#82 May 07 2004 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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thats my other problem. i have this thing where taking time away from EXPin is hard. i dont wanna fall behind ya know? if i could get over that then ya i could find a wa to make money. its hard tho. i wanna keep up with the others :(
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#83 May 07 2004 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Every job starts getting expensive if you want to play it will. All switching would do is put it off for a bit in the time it would take to get your other job up to 40.
#84 May 07 2004 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
thats my other problem. i have this thing where taking time away from EXPin is hard. i dont wanna fall behind ya know? if i could get over that then ya i could find a wa to make money. its hard tho. i wanna keep up with the others :(



are you in a race or something? i havn't exped for over 2 months now i think, while i was leveling fishing up to 50.
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#85 May 07 2004 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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It only makes sense that the jack-of-all-trades race is the best for the jack-off-all-trades job. ^_^ Good job.
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#86 May 07 2004 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Good FAQ but I have played all the races as a RDM and I find that Hume is no different than Mithra....if anything they are lower cuz they have no distinct advantage where as the only disadvantage of a Mithra is there CHR and unless your gonna be a BRD then it doesn't matter. Plus the Dex and Agi bonus helps alot more than other people maked it out to be.
#87 May 07 2004 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Mithra look better in AF too ^_^
#88 May 08 2004 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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This guide is helpful, but you can't try to do everything at once. You just have to take one step at a time. I have about zero money, and don't really have the patience to synth (I've tried it, and it bores me; I started playing this game to have fun, so if something's boring me, I'm not going to keep doing it), so I get most of my money by selling items I've picked up at AH. I manage to keep ahead of curve, but just barely.

As for the rest, I just set goals for myself and try to accomplish them; if I find myself coming up short, I investigate and learn what I can to accomplish the goal. For instance, I recently tried to do some damage to the Emissary mission out of Bastok at level 17, and got killed in Giddeus, dropping me back to level 16. Went back in and tried again, and got killed again. Obviously, I wasn't ready, so I went back to leveling up, got some new armor and scrolls, and will go back to kick Evy Mon's *** when he's unlucky enough for me to come into Windhurst again.

I don't look at this guide as something to accomplish in itself, but rather something to help me accomplish my other goals. If I looked at this list as something I had to accomplish, it would drive me nuts. I do want to be the best RDM I can be, but ultimately I just want to have a good time.
#89 May 08 2004 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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3,019 posts
I wouldnt push it too far into details.
Your debaiting on a few points that, at the end of the day, can be easily juggled using cheap gear easily found in any auction house.
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#90 May 08 2004 at 1:14 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
so i shouldnt let this guide drive me crazy? cause it is. i wanna be a good red mage but if it takes this much work i dunno if i can. im just here to have fun. right now after reading this guide i have hit a wall. i spent the last 5 hours standing in Windy looking at the text scroll up onmy TV screen. i dont know where to go from here.
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#91 May 08 2004 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent
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just so ya know i think the guide is great.im learning things about RDM that i didnt know. what scares me is the price of it all. other than that this guide has mademe appreciate my job more :)
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#92 May 08 2004 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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well, I hate you because I am 31 levels into being an Elvaan rdm and now I am ****** because it would be better to play as a Hume. I enjoy the class quite a bit, but was unaware that the Elvaan were hampered when I chose it. Fudge. Oh, to start another character....

I can make it "work" but I would much rather excel. Fudge. Although, I hate my linkshell and have only one good friend on my server.
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75brd 53rng 41rdm 38whm 38mnk 37nin
#93 May 08 2004 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Elvaan RDM isn;t that bad, once u hit lv41.
As and elvaan rdm i hit hard on frontlines (not as hard as melee jobs thou, but better than hume PLD) and is able to participate in SC and MB as well.
#94 May 08 2004 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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wow man thats awesome info im only lvl 31 now but soon ima be a lvl 60 ^_^
#95 May 08 2004 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
39 posts
There is a lot of good information in the post and the Author seems to have good intention but my beef is over the fact that a lot of the information in this post is (as has been mentioned before) very very biased. There have even been some people sounding off and saying that reading the guide makes them want to start over because they feel that thier race/sub isn't good enough after reading the author's opinions. Stickied posts are meant to contain good solid factual information and there is just too much bias in Airspirit's post to make it a good sticky.

As far as Hume being the best race for RDM this is just totally untrue.

As an ELV RDM/WHM @ lvl 60 you will have 7 more MND than a Hume RDM/WHM. ELV RDM with a WHM sub you have the HIGHEST possible MND/Enfeeble out of ANY other race/job combo in the game. It means that this combo is bar-none the BEST white magic debuffer in the game. An ELV RDM/WHM's paralyzes and slows have been proven to be significantly more potent and stick more often and last longer because of the higher MND stat. The author mentions none of this. Most elv's drop RDM by the time they hit 50? That's news to me, on my server a good 25% of the RDM's past lvl 70 are ELVs.

The author's claim that a Taru RDM's inability to "last on the front lines" limits their effectiveness. This is just plain wrong. At lvl 60 a Taru RDM/BLM will have 11 more INT than a Hume RDM, I don't know if the author realizes this but 11 INT is a HUGE DIFFERENCE when it comes to nuke damage. As a 60 RDM I gain maybe on average 40-60 TP per battle, which translates to about 12-20 dmg per hit hitting about 6-10 times per battle. This can range from 74-200 DMG per battle from my RDM melee. A taru with 11 more int will probably nuke about 300 more than me assuming there are 2 magic bursts in the battle. (which there usually is) Not to mention the fact that as a tarutaru, your HP and MP will both be very close to even @ 60 (about 750ish each) meaning you will get the MOST out of convert that you possibly can. As a Hume with maxed MP gear at my level I lose about 300 MP assuming I convert with full HP and low MP. Again none of this is mentioned by the author.

As far as the whole melee issue goes, All the people who are pro-melee advocates have yet to ever address the issue of monster TP gain? If your paltry melee is causing the mob to do lots of extra AOE or self buff that YOU are gonna have to dispel at the cost of your own mana is it gonna be worth it? Why is it that whenever you see JP parties, thier RDMs are always standing back with wands casting? Why is it that many other job thats not RDM prefers to have RDM's in thier PT's not meleeing?
#96 May 08 2004 at 10:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Notice how I mentioned that Tarus are probably going to be more back line types? Guess you missed that part.

As for TP gain this isn't an issue. On mobs with extremely strong WS just use a beestinger: you'll still do free enspell damage but since you're hitting for 0 they gain no TP. What is so hard to understand about that? Most mob's TP skills are a joke anyway and can be controlled by stuns in a good group.
#97 May 08 2004 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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why does everyone make such a huge fuss about his opinion of race. I prefer taru myself.. he prefers hume obviously, and he put that opinion in the FAQ. I play as a pure caster in back line with all caster gear on.. that's how i chose to play.. and is why i chose taru for a race. People need to realise you can still choose for yourself...

I strongly disagree with his choice for race, but that's my opinion, and hume does not fit my playstyle. If you see yourself as playing as a pure caster than hume/mithra wouldn't fit you either. But that's what, 3 paragraphs out of the whole post? and that's pretty much what i see everyone complaining about. Give him a break, there is a ton of useful information in this thread, which is why i requested it get stickied.. And you people complain as if he was trying to rape you or something.

If you can't choose some things for yourself and rely on a guide to run how you play your game then why bother playing anyways. I wanted this stickied because of all the great info, i could look past how he was biased towards melee rdm and look at all the facts in the thread.. all the info about subs, and how to effectively play as a rdm while meleeing. (altho i'd like to see him add to that and describe how to play the oppostie way as well.. maybe i'll start working on a part 2 to this containing how to play a rdm as a pure caster.)

you people complaining or questioning your choice in just race makes me wonder if you even thought about rdm before looking at this guide... if just the info he put in here is enough to make you question yourself, have you ever just sat down and thought about your character and plan ahead?

sigh.. /rant off
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FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#98 May 08 2004 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
39 posts
"Notice how I mentioned that Tarus are probably going to be more back line types? Guess you missed that part."
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No I didn't, you are implying that because Taru RDMs are back-line types that they are less effective overall and a "3rd choice behind Hume and Mithra".

I merely pointed out that they are just as effective if not more because of thier nuke ability. How about acknowledging the rest of my post about the specific benefits of Elv and Taru RDMs now? Or are you conceding that I am right about this?

I don't think your post is BAD per-se I just think it's too opinionated which causes some of your point to be misleading. I just personally don't think it deserves to be stickied until it is edited more to consider different effective playstyles. You are making it seem like your playstlye is inhenently superior to that of somebody who chooses to be a backline caster or a Elv RDM.



"(altho i'd like to see him add to that and describe how to play the oppostie way as well.. maybe i'll start working on a part 2 to this containing how to play a rdm as a pure caster.)"

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Well you see smurv, from how he writes the guide, he makes it seem like being a backline caster is not a proper way to play RDM. See this is what I mean when I say this post is MISLEADING.

"Once again, at 55 your job will change again. With the benefit of more powerful weaponry you now have the ability to do 2/3 the melee damage of primary melee characters on mobs depending on whether or not you levelled your melee abilities. You will find that you almost never use nukes at all anymore if you are doing your job properly since your elemental skills are so relatively low that they will rarely pay off what they cost in MPs. Your melee skills will always do more damage to mobs than you would if you wastefully chain nuked from the back lines."

Wow really? That's news to me I was MBing for 350 on Armet beetles in Ranperres tomb @ lvl 56. Hmmm, so you're telling me 350 dmg for 77 MP isn't worth it?

"Always have your weapon out if you are standing. Regardless of what anyone might tell you, any damage you contribute to a mob is GOOD damage and helps your group kill it faster. Meleeing does not in any way get in the way of casting the spells you need to use. Further, if your tank is doing his job you should rarely if ever get aggro from the mob. Even AOEs are easily handled if the members of your party are doing their job (i.e. STUN). Don't ever be fooled by the hordes of terrible red mages out there that avoid melee like a plague that you will be ineffective at it: their issues are bad equipment and lousy skill"

Hmmm, doesn't seem like he approves much of people who like to play caster RDM. It actually seems like he downright disapproves of that particular playstyle, when in actuallity most RDMs past 60 tend to play that way including most 70+ JPs.
Interesting.
#99 May 09 2004 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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The difference is I can do 20-30 damage a hit with a sword and enspell. Even if I just score 10 hits, thats 200-300 damage for 15mp. (and with a hasted beestinger, youll score ALOT more than just 10 hits)

This is some of the most efficient spell damage in the game, and can be done aloneside an organized burst or even wasteful chain nuking.

People who play caster rdm arnt there to do damage. Their effectivly not on scene in redmage capacity.
A body to enhance your casting alone, for a job that has a meele role, is not ideal.

Edited, Sun May 9 10:01:01 2004 by MaxCaitsith
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#100 May 09 2004 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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1,249 posts
This guide has got to be one of the most complete guides Ive seen on how to effectively handle the RDM class. I must admit I learned alot from this, I have spent hours apon hours of research on how to effectively handle and manipulate this class, and yours has pretty much taken all of that and condensed,refined, and elaborated on all of it(excuse me if that sounds contradictary).My lvl is only 20 but my research does help alot. I would like to personally thank you for creating litteral refrence source, what you have put down here is by all means worthy of any guide.
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#101 May 10 2004 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
32 posts
Yes, finally someone says that a RDM can Solo. Everywhere I have seen it states after lvl 15+ you must party to gain lvls.

Happy Hunting..

Queo
17 RDM
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