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#252 May 23 2004 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a level 18 RDM who just got her subjob today (BLM of course). I'm by no means as far along as probably anyone else on this page, and I probably haven't gotten a taste of "real fighting" beyond Valkurm Dunes. But I just want to thank Airspirit for creating by far the best RDM guide, and possibly the best job guide on the net, period. I printed it out (all 15 or so pages of it) and am almost completely following it, save for leveling dagger skill or other endeavors that aren't possible considering my limited playing time.

Right now, I'm finding myself valued by groups in a way that I never experienced being a Mithra MNK before. I love being a RDM because anything and everything is possible...I can melee, I can cast spell after spell, I can take on the role of main healer, I can power-level another player, I can Cure II ghouls to death and Enthunder water mobs to death, and a million other things. Sure, it's a lot to handle, but being the jack of all trades is extremely fun and diverse. Thanks for telling it like it is, Airspirit!
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#253 May 24 2004 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Updated with RDM 201 ... a nice primer on macro optimization that can raise your performance quotient up by around 3-5 levels easily. Enjoy!

BTW, this section will particularly help those about to face Maat ... nothing like making sure all of your spells stick :D
#254 May 24 2004 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
46 posts
Post 41, are rdms pretty much main healers? I just turned 42, and the last 2 levels I was the main healer for the party. Having the responsibility of keeping everyone healed, casting a few debuffs and dispel on mobs, magic bursting, and keeping pt members refreshed is a bit of work. I dont mind really, as I like to be busy, but Im wondering is this going to be how it is throughout the rest of my rdm career? I felt so burned out from last night's adventure as a main healer, so today I had to take a break and fish instead.
#255 May 24 2004 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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The only time you'll be doing that is when it is a BRD/RDM/BLM mage line ... your debuffs become so critical later on that you literally won't have time to be primary healer as well. Co-healer: yes ... Primary: no.
#256 May 25 2004 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Absoultely Excellent! Wow I had no idea what my job truely was about! Thanks alot man! Rate Up!!
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Jobs:BST 75|RDM 41|NIN 40|{Rank 7}
Crafting: WW-98:|:Fishing-93:|:Cloth-60:|:Cook-61:|:GS-56:|:SM-56:|:Bone-52:|:
Maat Defeated 10-18-2005 3:00am
Lu'Shang Obtained
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#257 May 26 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Another Rate up. (The guide is excellent, but mostly for counter attacking your troll)

I printed your first version and I just printed the second version. I've been a much better RDM since I read your guide... I'm only 22 now, and while before I used to beg for Party, now I'm actually being invited for people who know me, even when I'm in another PT already.

I haven't been able to level everything that takes time (like dagger and dark skills) but I'm working on it.

Following your guide actually works very good.. yesterday I soloed my first IT without even using my 2hr. (a worm, I know it isn't really that much... but I wouldn't say a lot of people around at my level have even attempted it).

Thanks airspirit!
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#258 May 27 2004 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Airspirit, would you recommend I be a little more picky when joining parties with no main healer, i.e whm or another rdm?
#259 May 27 2004 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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It depends on the level, really. Pre-Ballad II a RDM/BLM/BRD mage line can work as long as the BLM is casting the BLM debuffs to help you save your MPs. Post-Ballad II you probably won't even need that in order to do very well. If, however, it is just you without additional MP regeneration then you should consider looking for something else. Honestly: if they want you to debuff, heal, refresh, and dispel all out of your MP pool then chaining is going to be impossible.

A BRD/BLM/RDM mage line, however, if it includes people that aren't muppets, will do outstanding and is honestly one of my favorite combos.
#260 May 28 2004 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I was wondering what spell order you (experienced RDMs use). In a pt I cast:
En-spell Slow -> paralyze -> blind En-spell (if I did not have time to cast before) -> gravity (if needed) -> shock... (I only have 2 elemental enfeebles @lvl 36) <I know I should cast dia but I have almost given up telling the blm in every party not to cast bio....>

Soloing if I get jumped I cast:

Slow -> blaze spikes -> paralyze (if applicable) -> regen -> en- spell

Soloing if I am taking on a harder target:

blaze spikes -> enspell -> blink -> pull with slow -> paralyze -> elemental spell -> elemental spell -> repeat elementals till mob is dead

yes I am a taru: 36rdm
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<tarutaru> semi-retired
Main Jobs: 75RDM (sept? 05) - 75BLM (July? 06) - 75WAR (feb ~14 07) 75 PLD (may ~2 07) 75 BLU (jan 08) 75 DRK (~feb 08)
Full Subs: 62WHM/38THF/42NIN/51BRD/RNG37/SAM37/44COR/37BST/37SCH
In Progress subs: 16MNK/21SMN/21DRG/30DNC
I do not have pup unlocked.
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Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
#261 May 28 2004 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Your spell list should change somewhat mob-to-mob, obviously.

In general, I toss Refresh as soon as it has cooled down (and assuming someone like a whm or pld, NOT a drk or blm, needs it).

In between and after Refreshes I generally lay down Paralyze, Dia II (Bio II once in a while, like when the healer can't keep up with the dmg), Frost or Choke (evasive mob, use Frost to lower AGI, tough mob use Choke to lower VIT), and Gravity, for the -5% eva.

Once in a very rare while I'll throw down something else like Slow or Blind (mostly when soloing or when lacking a pld tank).

Mage types obviously get regular doses of Silence (it unfortunately seems to get resisted quite a lot, even with a capped enfeebling skill and a Solid Wand (I wasn't 48 long enough to get a Rose +1, I dinged, went to help a friend with an AF1, got killed, and donged right back to 47), so that's a "do my best" kinda spell that gets an Elemental Seal in a pinch)

On the whole Dia (and Dia II) are FAR more useful than Bio (and Bio II) and if some idiot blm in your pt insists either on lvling their dark skill or that the two spells stack, calmly ask the pt leader to instruct him to not cast Bio, or find either a new blm or rdm, his choice (especially post 41 when you're in very high demand).

The elemental debuffs are really handy, and the only reason I don't use more of them is a matter of balancing MP use and the fact that I can never remember which stack, which overwrite, and which will have no effect in a pinch. I need to memorize that and the SC -> element correlation for every lv 1 and lv 2 SC, but have thus far been too lazy to.

As long as you have a blm sub, I strongly advocate using said elemental debuffs, even if there is a blm in the pt. In my experience, most have little to no understanding of debuffing or how stat changes affect a mob, outside of Burn and the -INT from that. So most will only cast Burn if they cast any at all, leaving you to pick up the slack. The additional side benefit of using them is that since they use your elemental skill, you can keep it capped or nearly capped (or at the very least at a respectable level) just by doing your primary job and debuffing.

There is no "perfect" line of debuffs, as every rdm thinks different ones have more or less merit, different party configurations require different debuffs, and some may or may not stick on a mob you're fighting, no matter how much you'd like them too (i.e. sticking Rasp on Spiders (earth based mobs) just isn't going to happen reliably on high-xp mobs no matter how much you dream).

As long as you use your head and judge whether a debuff will be useful or not, you'll be fine, no matter what you cast. Don't do dumb things like silence pugils to stop their "special spells" like Screwdriver (a TP move, which silence will do nothing to, and pugils don't have mp to cast with anyway). Use your noggin and really think about which debuffs are useful on a given mob, and which are worth your MP to cast. RDM requires more thought to play than just about any other job in the game, as you have more tasks to juggle and more situation-dependant spells.


For the record, I'm a rdm47/blm23, Mithran, with about 500 mp (changes based on weapons, and goes considerably higher with food), so I don't quite have the mana lake that taru have, but I have a fairly large supply. Even so, it is still painfully finite, so it takes some finesse to get the most out of my MP (only once, due to a massive clusterfvck have I ever run OOM before Convert was up (and often well past its 0:00). Pre-41 it wasn't difficult to run a couple battles in a row without resting by only using the debuffs that were absolutely necessary, and not just tossing random ones about for fun, and to say that I used everything in my ******* on a mob.
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Amastacia || Asura server
RDM 75 / NIN 75 / PLD 47 / BLM 37 / WHM 37 / WAR 37 / DRK 37
Windurst 10 / RoZ Complete / CoP Complete / ToAU Mission 33
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#262 Jun 01 2004 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
25 posts
Great, a great post. I found a lot of info that will help my Tarutaru RDM.
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Ikatsui
Server: Cerberus
Lvl 19 BLM, 4 WHM, 2 THF
Crafting Skills: Fishing 3, Alchemy 1
The Taru Mafia, once your in you can't get out...
#263 Jun 02 2004 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
It is a good post.
However, I must say it is both biased and can be a bit inaccurate. In my humble opinion, a Elvaan RDM works great. I have THF subjob, which makes up for dex and makes me a GREAT addition to melee. I wear a brass hairpin with a nice +10 mp bonus and -4 hp, which is nothing. So basically I average about the same damage as melees, plus enfeebling and backup healing.
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Level 18 RDM/9 THF ELVAAN
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-Goal: RDM/NIN-
#264 Jun 02 2004 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Fantastic post.

Being only a lvl 28 RDM i'm still pretty much a n00b to many and I'm still learning. This post has really helped though (first time posting but been reading since i started the game).

I always knew melee was a part of the class that could be ignored or not ignored. How I wanted to approach melee was what I was trying to figure out. This post solved that problem for me about 8 lvls back. ;)

I haven't had one pt complain about my meleeing. I still do the debuffs and back up healing and other support that is part of my job. I've even dumped hate to myself once or twice now thanks to blink giving the whm time to save the tank from eating dirt.

How do you keep your macros straight though? I mean I saw that you talked about how you keep certain ones in certain places. But there are just so many macros to create. Especially when you talk about swapping out equipment left and right.

Skull
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75RDM 75NIN 37BLM 37WHM 37WAR 37DRK 15THF 10MNK
Leathercraft 100+3
Clothcraft 60.0
Alchemy 60.0
Smithing 21.7
Bonecraft 8.0
Caitsith Server
#265 Jun 02 2004 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
However, I must say it is both biased and can be a bit inaccurate. In my humble opinion, a Elvaan RDM works great. I have THF subjob, which makes up for dex and makes me a GREAT addition to melee.


thanks i needed a good laugh... thf subjob so your elvaan rdm will have more dex, haha. i'm crying.
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75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
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#266 Jun 02 2004 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smurv wrote:
Quote:
However, I must say it is both biased and can be a bit inaccurate. In my humble opinion, a Elvaan RDM works great. I have THF subjob, which makes up for dex and makes me a GREAT addition to melee.


thanks i needed a good laugh... thf subjob so your elvaan rdm will have more dex, haha. i'm crying.


Smiley: lol
#267 Jun 02 2004 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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airspirit, can you email me@ davenportbilly@hotmail.com what your char name is in game? or just do a /befriend smurv, i left my char logged in when i left for work so you could do that.

Edited, Wed Jun 2 19:49:01 2004 by Smurv
____________________________
FFXI : Valor LS
75 blm / 68brd / 38whm / 30rng / 75 mnk / 37war / 53 thf / 37nin / 12rdm rank 7
WOW
85 rogue 85 hunter 85 shaman 85 priest 85 mage
#268 Jun 03 2004 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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I honest to god feel the urge to cry when I read this thread, especially when I hear people saying that they're following it exactly, or almost exactly.

I know I'll get bashed over the head for this, and probably lose scholar, but I don't care.

This post is completely useless. It creates RDMs that I cringe in fear of partying with. It creates RDMs that insist on meleeing to raise skill, it creates RDMs who insist on meleeing because "every bit of damage counts", it creates the RDM that focuses on the melee aspects of a mage job.

If you want to level up dagger, or sword, or club, or whatever, do it in a skillup party. I took my dagger up 200 levels in 5 hours of skillupping on coffer mobs in Oztroja without wasting my time on getting a Hornetneedle.


Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I know that just becuase an RDM wants to melee doesn't make them a bad RDM, but every bad RDM I've partied with has decided to melee.

I saw a VERY specific encounter of this right before I quit RDM. There was no WHM around, and we had been trying to put together the party for 7 hours, so we took another RDM. He had just used convert, and I had cured him back up to full, and he changed to melee equipment, and decided to go try and solo a VT. While he proceeded to get us killed, as the PLD had 20 mp, I had 37, and no convert, I asked him WTF he thought he was doing. He said he found a guide on the net that had info on how to be able to be a good melee RDM and take on stuff. Now, I can't prove that it was this guide, but all of the others I have read, helped write, or browsed, have discouraged that kind of behavior.


Airspirit, I remember your fiasco with the fishing, and your credibility was already torn to shreds with that ordeal, as some have cared to recount. So, you'll excuse me if I say that this guide isn't just sub-par, but actually hurtful to someone who needs guidance on playing RDM. I also doubt you've been helpful in the groups that, and I dare say it, carried you to 65, due to little of your own skills.

Am I bitter? No, not really. I had decided to go BST before I was killed, and I got a raise 3, so it wasn't a matter of EXP, but I still think RDM is a great job, and it pains me to see such misinformation around.


And honestly, the part in your sig is so self serving. I've got a karma stalker on me, and I make no mention of it. That's been in your sig since the fishing ripped cap thread, hasn't it? I doubt someone is still doing it after all of this time.
____________________________

So I wander on, asking where you might have gone
From what I knew before, some things are worth fighting for
Night road leads me to a town because
I'm beckoned by the glow of kerosine and tumbleweed
They're calling out, forevermore worth fighting for
#269 Jun 03 2004 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
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You seem to assume that everybody who reads this will turn into the idiot that was in your party.

Yeah I read it. I've probably read it 3-4 times completely to be sure I didn't miss anything. Will I use it all? Probably not. Will I use some of it? Yeah you bet I will. I already do and it's made me a better player.

I don't take this as the be all of how to play a RDM because it's not. This is just one way to play it that works for airspirit.

Anybody who blindly follows any writeup on how to "play" a character in a RPG probably shouldn't be playing in the first place because it's apparent they don't want to learn.



Edited, Thu Jun 3 09:59:40 2004 by SkullLeader
____________________________
Skullone Male Hume -- Retired
75RDM 75NIN 37BLM 37WHM 37WAR 37DRK 15THF 10MNK
Leathercraft 100+3
Clothcraft 60.0
Alchemy 60.0
Smithing 21.7
Bonecraft 8.0
Caitsith Server
#270 Jun 03 2004 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I honest to god feel the urge to cry when I read this thread, especially when I hear people saying that they're following it exactly, or almost exactly.

Ahh, dry your tears. I am an FFXI newbie, and my first choice of Job was RDM. I stumbled upon this guide whilst looking for some strategies, and I am thankful for it, though not for the reasons you might expect. I'm thankful that the guide is so obviously biased that I can't help but be suspicious of everything I read, particularly since the author goes to great lengths to reinforce the idea that his way is the only right way. In my experience, those are the people you want to give a wide berth. Especially when they start using words like "apologist".

I know I'll get bashed over the head for this, and probably lose scholar, but I don't care.

At least whining about karma/status/whatever isn't relegated to Slashdot.

This post is completely useless...

That's being disingenuous. The post has a ton of great information. I like the lists of equipment and some of the strategies, I can see a few I'd like to try or modify. Most of the opinionated stuff can be flushed down the toilet, of course.

I think min/maxing taken to an extreme is boring, personally. I like getting good equipment as much as the next person, but when I start counting tenths of seconds and crunching formulas, the game ceases to be a game, and becomes work. For example, I am never going to make macros to swap equipment for different spells: I think it's completely asinine.

It's easy for me to say that, because I have a group of friends I play with. I don't have to worry about impressing some strangers, I'm satisfied with being mostly efficient instead of 100% efficent, and I don't care if it takes me three years to get 75 as long as I have fun bashing heads with my buddies along the way.

That said, the post is still useful to me. I'll simply take what I want from it to avoid common newbie mistakes. I don't want to be an idiot RDM any more than you do. But as for the people yammering at me that doing $strategy$ makes me kill 3.423% slower... /dismiss.
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#271 Jun 03 2004 at 4:41 PM Rating: Default
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Well, I will take back the "Compeltely useless" part, and replace it with "large amounts of useless material", instead.


Anyway.... At least no AC here!
____________________________

So I wander on, asking where you might have gone
From what I knew before, some things are worth fighting for
Night road leads me to a town because
I'm beckoned by the glow of kerosine and tumbleweed
They're calling out, forevermore worth fighting for
#272 Jun 03 2004 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
I think the key point here is to realize that the goal isn't to satisfy some 'stupid' urge to want to swing a sword around and pretend to be a melee god, it's to optimize the ability to contribute as much as possible to a party's battles, both magic and melee. Melee is secondary, period, and the game nicely allows that to happen seeing as all you have to do is move into position and click Attack. The game takes care of the rest, while you sit there and watch the status messages and the party's HP and MP. Setting up effective macros is crucial, and having appropriate gear is good for any job. Thus, an excellent guide.

That being said, I can look ahead (am only lvl38 right now) and see that in the future it's very possible there will be many mobs I will stay away from, or there might come a day when even my fancy new sword won't be doing any damage. But I think if a RDM can't handle doing their job, whether or not their in melee isn't going to make a difference. A moron who grabs a VT mob alone when the party is unprepared is a moron no matter what their style of play is.

Of course, none of this really matters if you don't have an effective party to begin with.

To share my casting order, selected items from this list are done depending on how tough the mob is and what things the other mages are casting:

1. Dia - always a good opener.
2. Shock - if the BLM doesn't.
3. Silence - if necessary.
4. Slow - always.
5. Paralyze - if the mob is really tough and/or Silence fails. Most WHMs I've been with do this anyway.
6. Gravity - if the party has a history of trouble keeping the mob in place.
7. Bio - depending on damage given and taken, and the BLM hasn't.
8. Blind - if the BLM hasn't.
9. En-spell - almost always.
10. Melee. Watch the info scroll by. Cures for those in the red. Dispel. Recast Dia/Bio and crucial enfeebles if the mob's still going strong. Or, recast things that didn't stick in the opening moves.
10a.Danger mode: Back off and focus on Cures and crucial enfeebles (Silence, Dispel, Sleep). Phalanx+Stoneskin and take the job of zoning the mob if necessary, or (maybe with the help of a MNK or NIN) keep its attention while others flee.
11. Post-battle. Run back to join the WHM & BLM, listen to Mage's Ballad, cast crucial Cures, rest.
#273 Jun 03 2004 at 6:00 PM Rating: Default
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Let me tell you, with capped sword skill, me meleeing was worthless. Even if I would go viking shield/wise wiz anelace, I would do crap damage. Giving TP to a mob is a bad thing. It may not matter for one hit, but if you continue to hit, it builds up over time. One extra sickle slash, one extra bomb drop, one extra spore, and you cause the death of your party.
____________________________

So I wander on, asking where you might have gone
From what I knew before, some things are worth fighting for
Night road leads me to a town because
I'm beckoned by the glow of kerosine and tumbleweed
They're calling out, forevermore worth fighting for
#274 Jun 03 2004 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
22 posts
Good guide, though melee is rather wasteful, and the equipment switching and purchasing is alot of effort to do the amount of damage during an entire battle that a damage dealer can do in one hit.
#275 Jun 03 2004 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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I don't rate people down for contrary posts: that is what forums are for. That kind of crap is juvinile to say the least.

Any red mage that forsakes their duties to do nothing but melee is an idiot. I never recommended that anyone do that. Read it again carefully.

TP? Do you realize that it would take around 40 non-0 hits from a red mage to cause one extra mob WS? 40. 2.5 TP per hit, just like what your Paladin gets ... you don't see them shooting off weapon skills like crazy do you? If you're really that absurdly concerned get yourself a beestinger and you'll almost never add any TP to the mob. Most WS the mobs use are not TP based: gather yourself a herd of ultra-low level mobs and let them swing at you. Even if they never hit they will occassionally use weapon skills on you. These are not TP related ... but their scarcity of use is just a characteristic of lower level mobs: they are easy because they don't use them as often. Ever seen a goblin throw three bombs back to back? I have. Try telling me that is TP based.

What I advocate is using all of your skills. Your magery comes first. Melee comes second. This was made plain to those who didn't read this with a jaundiced eye. Is your party fighting skeletons that spam drainga? Don't melee! Are they fighting lizards? Chop em up! It's called common sense, something many people lack.

Here I am at 70 and I find myself the equivalent of 1/3 of a primary melee in my parties (on suitable mobs ... some such as skeletons, bombs, or cats I will not melee against anymore since their WS are dangerous to our magery or party) on top of flawlessly doing my mage duties. Is swapping gear more difficult than sitting back lazily? Of course it is! That is what excelling is all about: if it was easy everyone would do it.

Granted, some people shouldn't ever melee. Some, like Smurv, are more frail than others since he is a Taru. He needs to pick his battles if he melees at all. Some, like many on my server, are too thickheaded to do their mage duties without adding any more thinking to the mix. I would scream bloody murder if one of them rushed in with a sword when they couldn't take care of anything else properly.

Your line of thinking is akin to blaming the gun manufacturers for murder: they provide tools and information that others misappropriate and abuse. It is not their fault that other people are idiots, now is it?

I take pride in seeing Red Mages start to blossom into better mages due to good information. I have seen many on my server now start farming for equipment that they never would have bothered with earlier thinking they could skate. I have seen others incorporate melee into their repertoire without sacrificing their magery for added damage bonuses. This does me good to see this: they are becoming better mages. If some take my post wrong and think that they are some kind of melee god then they obviously are a bit dull-witted and need to take some reading comprehension courses. Never was it said that they could do this.

If you are bitter because my post doesn't hash with your playstyle then keep that to yourself: I'm not that interested one way or another. If you have information that will further enhance the abilities of our fellow red mages I would be more than happy to accept it. It's all about not jumping on the bias train and looking at things objectively to see how they could or could not assist you in your particular style of play. Melee isn't for everyone: it is simply another tool that can help us go farther if we put in the effort to learn how to do it PROPERLY.
#276 Jun 04 2004 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Quote:
One extra sickle slash, one extra bomb drop, one extra spore, and you cause the death of your party.


Alright, lets make all parties consist of a PLD, a WHM, and 4 BLMs. That way they'll be able to take down mobs fast and you won't have all those annoying melee jobs causing special attacks. Just because a RDM is meleeing, it's THEIR fault a mob is able to do its special attack? What kind of logic is that? What if a party has no RDM? I guess that extra Warrior has to stand back and not attack so the mob won't do it's special attack.

Edited, Fri Jun 4 07:17:37 2004 by Seiran
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