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#302 Jun 07 2004 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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As a 56 RDM soloing death from above is absolutely impossible. Your stoneskin will be shredded in one hit and without the AF fast cast enhancement you'd never get it up again. I have never been successful in putting it to sleep, either.

I would suspect that the absolute minimum for soloing it would be around level 69, and even then it would be a very long and risky fight. The reason I throw that level out is that it gives you a chance to reach the spawn point alive since most of the critters in that room won't aggro you. Even with a RDM and THF combo it took two runs at the room before we finally made the pedestal (the first run we killed half the mobs before we 2HRd it out of there, then went back in and cleaned up the rest) and the fight would have been rough without the renkei we made. I will probably be attempting to solo this soon for sport now that I've popped 71 and hitting it should be trivial.

Remember: this mob has a constant 100 fists effect on it when spawned ... your defences will be stripped fast. Even with a NIN sub your utse will be of no benefit since it will be stripped in less time than it took to cast it, and I've watched that bastard Pollen for over 2500 HP before ... with a sword and an extremely fast stun macro it is possible to solo it, but it will be damn difficult for a RDM under 70. After 70 you should have enough weapon skill to ensure that you can hit it and you at least have a fighting chance of winning.
#303 Jun 07 2004 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Removed references to executable decompiling and arguing about server/client-side logic as well as antibot code to keep this thread from straying off-topic :)

Edited, Mon Jun 7 13:39:28 2004 by Nataniella
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#304 Jun 07 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Awsom post. I am now taking time off to upgrade my gear to your recommended gear (level 32) and to get Dispell. It's almost time for me to pass out of noobdom... hehe

One thing I didn't see in the guide... Food.

Now, from general observations, seeing as how MP is key, Apple Pies (or Melon Pies) would be ideal for the RDM, as they give the most MP (25 MP to be exact.) That's what I've been using, and I'm assuming that that's the best choice for me to use. What do you think?

Perhaps a small blurb in the initial thread my be good for noobs reading the thread who don't use food. Just a thought.
#305 Jun 07 2004 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the reply Airspirit.

I know a 64 SAM who is willing to help me. Could we team up and kill the bee?

Also, if I fought it and lost the fight, would I also lose my Bee Larvae?
#306 Jun 07 2004 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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You and that SAM couldn't win. If you use the larvae and spawn the bee it will stay spawned for about 20 minutes then disappear and you'll lose the larvae.

I went in as a 66 RDM with a 69 THF buddy and it was a pretty tough fight ... and I had to tank because it would have killed her in a heartbeat. If you can find a good 60-62 PT to do this with then it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
#307 Jun 07 2004 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
, seeing as how MP is key, Apple Pies (or Melon Pies) would be ideal for the RDM, as they give the most MP (25 MP to be exact.) That's what I've been using, and I'm assuming that that's the best choice for me to use. What do you think?


I prefer pumpkin pie...
MP: 40 AGI: -1 INT: 3 CHR: -2

same stats as apple except has 15 more mp, and -2 chr.

i messed around with witch kabobs some but i prefer pumpkin for my rdm & for my blm.
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#308 Jun 07 2004 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
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Also, I'm glad some of you are taking the time to create sock puppets to post the same things over and over. Thus, Salinsha, I'm going to tell you to shush.

You'll be pleased to discover that this is, in fact, my only account here. Remove your tin-foil hat. You could ask whatever passes for a moderator around here to check the 'ol IP address, since I'm sure they log them. However, since you can magically reverse engineer the code of software you don't even have access to, you probably won't need their help to find out.

I can't prove anything to you guys...

Conversation over. It was gracious of you to close the issue, since you were involved in derailing the thread anyway.

Remember this mantra, the one we all learned from Ultima Online: "Never trust the client". Be assured that SquareSoft learned it, too.
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#309 Jun 08 2004 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Awesome guide.Thanx a ton for writing it.I was wondering if you thought RDM/SUM was considered a good combo.I am trying to decide between RDM/BLM or RDM/SUM.Please give me what you think between the two.


Vylekyle
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#310 Jun 08 2004 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Awesome guide.Thanx a ton for writing it.I was wondering if you thought RDM/SUM was considered a good combo.I am trying to decide between RDM/BLM or RDM/SUM.Please give me what you think between the two.


that's in the guide ;) in the rdm 102 secion about subjobs.
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#311 Jun 09 2004 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Unbelieveable!!!!!!

I read this a few days ago, then went and appiled some of the concepts, I shot up 4 levels in one day(about 6 hours). I was always worried about telling parties how to behave while I cast Enfeebs, but after laying out my plan to a pretty good party I was in, they all fell in line when the EXP chains started rolling in.

I have gotten to level 20 and am on my way to Jeuno for the Chocobo. I will definitely be bringing up dagger and parry skills on the way.

Yesterday I decided to solo so I could farm for some gil, and I recieved about 10 invites an hour.

I am going to own Gilgamesh!!!!

Thanks Airspirit.
#312 Jun 09 2004 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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After having read through this entire guide and all the replies (took hours ~_~) I would just like to note that, while Airspirit promotes the use of low-delay daggers so that a WS can be used every 30 seconds (Energy Steal or Drain), this means that for every two times you are able to use a WS, the mob gets enough TP from you to use one. This sort of contradicts the argument that the TP gained from a meleeing RDM is neglagible, unless I'm missing something. That means one extra Frog Kick or Sickle Slash or whatever that gets dumped on your PLD (I realize that more often than not, the TP move from the mob will not be as devastating as these two examples) in exchange for your 120MP (60MP x 2 uses). Now, it seems to me that repairing the damage from one of these moves might very well consume much more than 120MP (not to mention 5 minutes of downtime in an extreme case), and thus, having the RDM melee is, in fact, quite inefficient in certain situations.

This being said, I'm all for RMDs meleeing. Your En-spells are there for a reason, and that reason isn't NIN sub (although, not a terribly bad use >.> ). Especially when you're fighting mobs with high physical defense (ie, Crabs), that extra damage every few seconds really does add up, and as long as there are no devastating AoE attacks, and it doesn't interfere with your RDM duties, there's no reason for you to *not* be up there meleeing. Yeah, the TP might be an issue, but it's only in a few extreme cases where it really makes much of a difference (RDM shouldn't be up there on Mushrooms anyways, with Silence Gas).

Iunno, I'm not a RDM, so I guess my opinion doesn't really count for much, but there it is, if anyone cares to read it.

Edit: Please forgive me if I misstated anyone's argument...there was a lot to read

Edited, Wed Jun 9 18:53:10 2004 by Nadakai
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#313 Jun 09 2004 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Humes pfft. One thing you forgot to mention Evasion! Compared to a Mithra a Hume is a punching bag! Both Mithra and Taru have High evasion. Point overlooked shame on you.

Edited, Wed Jun 9 20:14:36 2004 by Rorri
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#314 Jun 10 2004 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Man You really hit the nail on the head with this post it is awesome it tells you everything about being a rdm it made me really want to change my sub job and it really makes me want to start a trend and start having more rdm in vanadiel well thank you for the help on showing whu to do with a rdm but i have to get back t playing peace
#315 Jun 10 2004 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not overlooked at all. 2 AGI = 1 EVA, generally speaking, and also gives 1 PARRY/SHIELD as well, though none of these show up on your stats list. Lets say that a level 75 Mithra has (generously) 10 AGI above a Hume RDM ... that is 5 in each of those three skills ... when you consider how abysmally low those skills are for RDM you'll understand that we're not going to evade much at all (maybe an extra 1/100 attack).

As for TP gain: you will not be hasting yourself in combat bringing the TP generation rate to around 42 seconds or so. If you are doing your full job you will not have time to gain 100 TP let alone 200 TP over the course of a fight. Typically in the best of circumstances with a dagger I get to around 60-75 TP unless I'm playing as primary melee (which is extremely rare and in very mage heavy groups). The mob will not be getting an extra WS off because of you. When I'm referring to 30 second TP gain I'm talking about solo play with haste on. If you're hasting yourself over your primary melee then you need to get your wrist slapped in party play.

edit: Was there a particular reason this got rated down or is my troll stalker back for more fun?

Edited, Fri Jun 11 01:13:18 2004 by airspirit
#316 Jun 11 2004 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice guide. Tho im 60 and know most of what i read. ALtho i wish i had read it when i started the game. WOuld have been a huge help. I must say tho i dont understand why the TT redmages arent meleeing. I am a TT redmage who refuses to stand back. Infact i find the suggestion of it rather insulting. I beleave i am a good redmage and my job is to cast and fight. What damage i am doing between cast is better than me not doing any damage at all. As for gobbie bombs while i do take damage they dont kill me. With my fire defence and Bar fire i tend to take less damage from the bombs than my other Party members. Anyway I think ill go refer a few redmages i know to this post. Might give them a clue as to how redmage should be played. ( like yes your job is to refreash other people.. oh and look you have debuffing spells for a reason)
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#317 Jun 11 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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i refuse to melee simply because i find it distracting. I don't like meleeing and casting i prefer to play as a pure caster. enough said.
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#318 Jun 12 2004 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Unless you've played tyhe Mihtran RDM to 75 your only speculating. It would seem you can only make an informed opinion based on being a Hume RDM only. The gear you suggested is catered to a Hume, other races require other gear, point should be noted. In order to make an informed discussion on all the races and how they play with RDM, would mean that you have lvled each race as a RDM to 75. Otherwise this guide should be called Hume RDM guide.
Any can race play any job in this game provided a player knows how to play it. Some tougher than others but its not an impossibility. The biggest problem with this game is its all based on what people see and hear and not what they've actually experinced. Leveling one race in one job to 75 doesn't make one an expert. Your only an expert on your play style. So newbs take heed its your dime you spend on playing play it the way you want to. And for godsakes have fun, it's only a game....
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#319 Jun 12 2004 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Great post. Now I can send those annoying RDM/WAR's and Galka RDM/SAM's to this so they know they're just as bad as everyone else says they are. These War's wear Circlets and such. No hairpins..glad there are some RDM's out there who know what to do, I enjoyed leveling RDM myself
#320 Jun 14 2004 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, very thorough guide. I recently started leveling RDM with my Taru character and plan to make it my main with her. I have a question though. Earlier in the posts you mentioned yelling at BLMs who cast Bio in fights to level Dark Magic (and I agree in many fights Dia is preferable). Someone went as far as to say that one shouldn't level magic skill in an XP party. Now, I agree that you shouldn't start spamming Bio in an XP party to level your Dark Magic. However, my impression is that it can't hurt to cast one Bio or Banish (whatever you need skill in) per fight. Skill-up parties are next to non existant before level 60 or so, and most people can't solo the toughs and very toughs required to level skill close to the cap. So my question is, if one is NEVER supposed to cast other spells to level skills in an XP party, what is the recommended way to keep your magic skills capped at lower levels? Thanks for the help.
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#321 Jun 14 2004 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I think overall it seems like there is some descent information. I think the bashing of Elvaan over DEX is a little harsh though. At level 59 the difference between Elvaan DEX and Hume is 3. That equates to 1.5 acc. In return for that 1.5 acc lost an Elvaan gets 7 STR. Perhaps above 59 the DEX difference gets tremendous, but I don't have those figures available. The MP is certainly a problem for all Elvaans, but good equipment and food can certainly help out. I also object to the claim that BST don't solo. If you look in the bottom right hand corner of your screen when you're playing BST with a pet it will say "Solo". When people talk about soloing they mean not having to form a party with other PC's, they mean the ability to go somewhere with EM and T by yourself and take them on. In this game there is a very specific difference between being in a party and being solo, BST's are not in a party when they "solo".
#322 Jun 14 2004 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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It does hurt to cast one Bio because it overwrites Dia. If you are using Dia II instead of Dia, then sure, some Bio casting would be fine since it wouldn't do anything. But then, casting Drain and Aspir would be a better way of raising Dark anyways.
#323 Jun 14 2004 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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You're talking semantics on the solo issue. The fact is that you have a partner: your pet. If you don't get a pet then you are truly soloing.

When fighting VT-IT mobs I've noticed as little as a 1 DEX difference make a BIG difference in hit rates. Don't believe me? Try a Hornetneedle compared to a Platoon Dagger and count your landed attacks per minute. If I'm not mistaken the actual DEX difference at 60 is closer to 6 points, however, which is an obscene dropoff. This can be made up for by equipment but that limit what you can do for magic unless you go NUTS with equipment swapping macros. Since both DEX and INT/MP are elvaan concerns and those can't be remedied in a complimentary fashion it poses a big problem.
#324 Jun 14 2004 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Unless you've played tyhe Mihtran RDM to 75 your only speculating.



I can also speculate that a Hume RDM has more MND naturally than a mithra so a hume will be better at 75.

Don't have to defend mithra...as said in his guide that mithra are great RDM's and most everyone agrees with this.
#325 Jun 14 2004 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I play a Mithra RDM, and at lv 51 I will admit that they are equal or slightly inferior to Humes, but the gap is slight if it exists at all.

The only trick is that we're a little slower solo, since we don't hit as hard and dodge more.

Not better or worse, just not quite as quick to kill things.

In party play, the two are practically identical.
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#326 Jun 14 2004 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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tarutaru pwn u ><
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#327 Jun 14 2004 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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As I pointed out this guide is too much from the Hume perspective. And not from the other races it would be wise for a taru to boost evasion with gear and not try and weigh it down with hevay armor. Same with Mithra, mob cant hurt you if it cant hit you very simple. All jobs should be fully undertsood before coming out with a one sided guide, alot of it is missing. And if any lvl 75 RDM Taru, Mithra, Elvaan, Gaulka would stand and take the floor please do so. Im sure the story would be different.
As for fun with famring, I'm out slaughtering Goobbues for some cash and noticed my parrying skills going up atta unbeleivable pace. Farming is not only fun but practical in getting the skills a workout lol.
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#328 Jun 14 2004 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
it would be wise for a taru to boost evasion with gear and not try and weigh it down with hevay armor. Same with Mithra, mob cant hurt you if it cant hit you very simple. All jobs should be fully undertsood before coming out with a one sided guide, alot of it is missing.


OK, I don't know if you're talking about an EXP party or farming, but I'll assume an EXP party.

A Red Mage has the following skill caps at level 75, regardless of race.

Evasion - D - 210
Parrying - E - 200
Shield - F - 187

For reference, a Thief at level 75 will have an Evasion skill of 276 and Parrying of 269. Trying to boost your (much lower) skills up to a high enough level to matter in an EXP party seems like it would be pretty hard. For reference, even if you had +15 to Evasion, you would only equal a . . . Paladin (C, 225). Paladins don't evade all that often in my experience, even with capped Evasion (which they always have).

Hume and Mithra hitpoints are equivalent. There is no skillcap for defense, and the difference between Hume and Mithra VIT (the other important stat for damage taken) is only 2 points at level 59 (sorry, can't test any higher.) In other words, if you put a Hume and Mithra in the same armor, the difference in damage taken will be negligible. A Hume will take marginally less damage per hit due to higher VIT, but get critically hit more often due to lower AGI.

As for Tarutaru, I doubt that they could get their Evasion and Agility high enough to make a difference. A smart Taru RDM will not be taking aggro all that often though anyway (neither will a Mithra or Hume for that matter). If they do, they can always have Stoneskin, Blink, and Phalanx up, due to their limitless supply of MP and Fast Cast.

As for farming, Red Mage has access to Phalanx, Stoneskin, and Blink once again, so I doubt that you'll have to much trouble with damage.

Just for reference, here are the sites I used for caps and stats:

Stats: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/%7Enhart/Status_calculator.htm
Skillcaps: http://cannotlinkto/ffxi/skilldb/
#329 Jun 15 2004 at 1:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I would be very surprised if the DEX difference jumped that much. It is only 3 at 59, I can't imagine it being 6 at 60. I would be very interested to see some statistics (not doubting you), but at level 33 I switch gear often and I honestly can't tell the difference between +3 dex which I get from my spike necklace and having on bird whistle. Maybe I don't pay enough attention but it really seems to make no difference. The str really does seem to. I'll have to parse some logs to tell for sure though. As far as BSTS not soloing a pet is just like a weapon, spell or job ability. Its like saying you're not alone if you've got armor on or a sword. When you have a pet its totally under your control its a part of your character for the duration of the charm. Perhaps it is purely symantical, but the fact remains that the game itself, the guides and manual all consider bst soloing. If you get BST and try to get into a pt one of the first tells you'll get is "Aren't BST supposed to solo". Its the general consensus that what a BST does is solo. This is what the game calls it, this is what almost everyone calls it. The only time I have heard it called not soloing is from rdm claiming that rdm is the best soloist (not just you, I've heard it from a couple other people but only rdm who are trying to boast a point). There is a definition of soloing in the game and bsts solo, if you call it anything else you are chagning the definition and consensus. I'll parse some logs with a difference of 3 chr and see what I get, I'm curious now.
#330 Jun 15 2004 at 2:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Not to be rude, but the semantic difference that RDMs like to harp over is that a bst can send their pet to fight, and just sit there and heal while the battle takes place. Sure, you're using a job ability to its fullest extent, but even when we do as RDMs, we're still in the thick of things, casting, swinging whatever pointy object we like best, and juggling about 3-5 tasks at once while trying to save our skins. We can't just sit on our butts while a mob gets dead. You can.

So yes, you solo, in that you do not have a party, no one to talk to except the beasts and the LS, and no cooperation with any other PCs, but in order to get XP, you need to have something nastier than yourself doing the fighting, for the most part.

You could raise the point that you not charming is like a RDM not buffing, but the difference is that your charm relieves you of the necessity to directly fight a lot of the time, and a RDM buffing up just makes them capable of taking on tougher prey without dying, but they still have to fight tooth and nail to get the job done.

The point Airspirit is trying to make is that without your pet there to deal damage and tank for you, while you stay at a safe distance, you're no more solo capable than any other job. You're not doing the work yourself.

I have a lot of respect for bsts, I've seen some do some nutty things (and also some very annoying things like charm the Kracken in Qufim, run it to a n00b party, and Release it there to aggro them, which is just unbelievably rude), and I agree that in many BCNMs, they are the dominant force, hands down. I don't think that they can truly take claim to the title of best soloers though, because they have to rely on their pets abilities to win (charm is your ability, but the HP, str, dex, and specials of your pet belong to your pet, not yourself). With the help of that pet you can do some nutty things, but without relying on it you are no more capable than any other job.
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#331 Jun 15 2004 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I started to read this guide yesterday and i was just prompted to finish it today, most excellent! thank you, its been emotional :p a valuable insite :)
#332 Jun 15 2004 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Well perhaps I play different than some bsts since I'm an Elvaan. But I am there right next to my pet doing about 80% the damage that it does. I'm switcing equipment in and out to make sure I'm doing just slightly less damage and I'm casting buffs when necessary. I unerstand that more than half the damage is from my pet because they do great damage. I will agree that a BST without charming a pet or using a jug (I'm not sure if you consider using a jug soloing because then summoners can't solo anything either) that a BST is lousy soloing. That doesn't change the fact that in this game the definition of solo includes BST with pet, its not a PT in this game it is solo. It should be called as such.

Lets look at it another way. From my understanding of the guide and from when I hear RDM boast about their solo ability they say it like its a positive thing and it is. So why is it a good thing? It means the ability to take on a DC that you accidentally get aggro from when you're not in a party. Or to be able to go on certain quests at lower levels by yourself than other jobs would be able to. RDM certainly have this ability. But this doesn't seem enough for you, you want to lay claim to the fact that you are the best at this. The problem is you aren't, BST's beat you at this hands down. So instead what you do is alter the definition of solo in the game so that you can try and imply that RDM are best at these things, by excluding the job that accels the most.

I just don't understand why it isn't enough to say that RDM are essential party members at higher levels and they are able to solo better that most any other job.
#333 Jun 15 2004 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I just don't understand why it isn't enough to say that RDM are essential party members at higher levels and they are able to solo better that most any other job.


i dont know what world you live on but that's pretty much what everyone says :p
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#334 Jun 15 2004 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm just commenting on the RDM's who repeatedly claim that they are the absolute best soloing job because BST don't solo. I realize not everyone says this, but it is in the guide and this is what I was commenting on.
#335 Jun 16 2004 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I think we just want to stake our claim solidly, since a lot of people overlook us pre-41, and far too many nowadays just see us as mana batteries post-41, good for nothing except doling out free MP to others.

It's about being proud to be a RDM and being proud of what we can do well.

With that pet, BST is indeed the best solo job in the game, but the semantic difference we like to make is that we don't rely on ANY outside help at all, just our own gear, spells, and wits. In a realistic sense, you are indeed better solo'ers since only a stupid BST fails to either charm or jug a pet when they solo, and that certainly can't be denied you. We just like to split hairs and get picky about it because we do it differently, and like to have others recognize that we're good for something other than Refresh.

I guess it comes down to the fact that a lot of the RDMs I know, both good and bad, and certainly including myself, are pretty egocentric and excessively proud and desirous of attention. We wouldn't all drool over getting a pimp hat if we didn't want to be seen wearing it. We play an often thankless job, so we like to get what recognition we can, when we can.

But yes, if you don't want to split hairs over it, BST is the best solo job in the game, you just need the outside help to really excel at it. With that help, you have us thoroughly spanked for solo. Without it (aka completely and totally solo, with no one else and no help for miles around) we kick butt and take names in comparison.

I'd never care to solo all the time, personally, so you BSTs certainly get credit for doing it, but I'd like my credit for being a solo machine where said credit is due.

The other reason we like to claim to be the best soloers is that under the right circumstances, we can theoretically solo several Prime Avatars, a feat even a BST would be challenged to accomplish, or fight some HNMs on our own without fear. These are exceptional cases however, and really don't apply to most solo endeavors.

Meh, semantics suck, but they let two different jobs have pride at being the best in the same area, so you might as well let it slide and take a joint crown, since it all depends on how anal a spectator is with respect of exact definition of "solo".

Personally, I know a couple really cool BSTs and have nothing against the job (in fact I love Charm for NM camping and such, and usually sub /bst and not /war), I just don't like rdm losing any more credit than we do already, since most of the idiots who play this game overlook the vast majority of what we do (until we stop doing it, of course :P (thx again to whoever originally said that! Smurv, was that you?)).
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RDM 75 / NIN 75 / PLD 47 / BLM 37 / WHM 37 / WAR 37 / DRK 37
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#336 Jun 16 2004 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I think thats fair. However as a general rule of thumb I would say BST get far less respect than RDM. People come to BST to do BCNM's, I know because if I'm not invisible I get tells asking me to. Other than that we're just someone who steals too many mobs from players trying to get experience, at least in the minds of many players. Red Mages have lots going for them and so it irks me when they try and take away the one thing that BSTs really do best. Actually soloing with jug pets isn't too bad, you wouldn't want to try and level with it, but a DC is often doable with a jug pet (at least at my level 33). Anyways I know that RDM are really useful, I've partied with quite a few that could really fill almost any role you needed and knew how to adjust their role to fit the situation. However I have to look out for my job, which is one of the most underrated in the game in my opinion. So it just bothers me to repeatedly see RDM trying to take away the one thing we do best, by eliminating us from the discussion using symantics, in actually by changing the definition of soloing that the game has set forth. Good post though.
#337 Jun 16 2004 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Yay!!!~ Airspirit is the best!!!~ ;D

I love all your posts! This makes me wanna try Red Mage!!!~

Hope I see you in Bastok!!!~

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Arikel
Mithra Red Mage/Black Mage
Fairy Server
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My Princess~!
#338 Jun 16 2004 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I really want to thank you for writing this guide, Airspirit. I don't mean any of this sarcastically or whatever. I'm really serious, so please note that when reading the following.

When I bought this game and created my character last December, I made a rather uninformed decision, knowing that I wanted to play Red Mage. I chose Elvaan as my race. Your guide makes me want to start all over, totally drop my 55RDM Elvaan and start all over as a Hume. It's a decision I've been somewhat toying with, but you've seriously helped me make that decision. I think the most glaring reason for that is, reading your guide, I realized that despite whatever "problems" each race has that makes one more playable over the other, I've missed out on a lot of things that make being a Red Mage so great. For example, I've never used an equipment macro in my life, even though I carry around some extra equipment, and I have so little money it's ridiculous. There are many things that I pass up because I simply cannot afford them. And now that it's so 'late' in the game and my funds pale in comparison to those who can afford multiple elemental staves as soon as they hit level 51, I really realize I should have played this game differently. Of course, that would have been impossible since what I know now I didn't know then. But it's really frustrating to me that I'm paying for the mistakes I made so long ago now, and it's preventing me from being the best Red Mage I can be (something that's really important to me ^^).

So, I seriously want to thank you for you helping me make this decision. You've written a wonderful guide, and anyone who says otherwise needs to shut up. :P
____________________________
Aerynlia, 75RDM/75BLM/61SMN/49BRD/38MNK/38WHM
Duelist's[4/5] Zenith[5/5] Crimson[4/5] Warlock's+1[1/5] Wizard's+1 [1/5] Nashira[2/5]
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#339 Jun 16 2004 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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When I bought this game and created my character last December, I made a rather uninformed decision, knowing that I wanted to play Red Mage. I chose Elvaan as my race. Your guide makes me want to start all over, totally drop my 55RDM Elvaan and start all over as a Hume. It's a decision I've been somewhat toying with, but you've seriously helped me make that decision.

Well, that's sort of depressing to read. I happen to be a Hume RDM by pure luck, but even if someone proved to me that, for instance, Galkas made better RDMs, I wouldn't switch. It says a lot about you that you would drop a higher-level character just because of a few numbers, and a guide posted by someone who likely has a completely different playing style than you.

I hope, for your sake, that your #1 priority is being the best and most powerful that you can be, ahead of everything else. Also, that nothing ever happens to the game that shifts the racial balance of the RDM out of Hume favor (or you never find out about it). Otherwise, you're going to be miserable.

I don't understand it, no sir. I have a friend who made an Elvaan BLM, which is perhaps the second worst racial choice for the class. He was agonizing over switching to Hume because of the same numbers game, even though he loves his Elvaan. I pointed out some strengths Elvaans lend to casters, the fact that he enjoys his character, and that it's only a game. My friend didn't re-roll. He'll thank me later.

I'll grind out numbers and min/max, but only if I get a bi-weekly paycheck and a dental plan. If I want to get into a pissing contest, I can do it for free, I don't need to pay Square-Enix a monthly subscription for the privilege. Fun first, style second, and substance dead last. That's my mantra.

On-topic suggestion for the guide: fewer references to weeping infant Messiahs.

Edited, Wed Jun 16 10:40:32 2004 by Salinsha
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#340 Jun 16 2004 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh my god, let me clear some things up.

Monsters are just like us, they have WEAPONSKILLS and JOB ABILITIES. An interesting thing, is monsters don't seem to get new WS or JA as they level up(for the most part). That bumblebee outside windurst uses final sting just the same as that wespe you fought.

Monsters don't need TP to use their JA. Almost every horrible "weaponskill" listed being the cause of rdm melee is not true. A goblin can bomb toss the very first round (it happens).

If you don't believe me, (bearing in mind that monsters don't get new weaponskills or job abilities for the most part), test it yourself. Go rdm/war and provoke a level 1 crab outside of windurst or sandoria, face away from it and never attack it. I hope you are high enough level so the crab does 0 damage every round.

In this case, the crab would get 0 tp since it is not being attacked and its attacks are missing or landing 0. You don't get tp for attacks that do 0 damage and either do monsters.

Write down every special ability the crab uses over 5 min.

Now go fight that same crab as a job low enough level to take damage, but prolong the fight as much as possible to give the crab TP.

Pretty much every single AoE from monsters are job ablities. Attacks with cone of effects are _usually_ weaponskills. I am a level 63 monk currently and I remember leveling on flies in crawlers PRIOR to us getting the ability subtle blow.

You wanna talk about TP gain to monsters, us monks were the master of that. I had to make sure I never used raging fist from behind the fly. The damage was usually enough to get it to turn around and look at me (our mages being directly behind me), and the 5 * 2.5 TP given to the fly was usually enough to let it do its ONE weaponskill attack.

Yeah.. bad times. But with TP nerf and subtle blow it is not near as common for a monsters to weaponskill after I weaponskill :)

When it comes to melee vs nuking blms there are many factors involved. Level 60+ I got in a static PT recently with a mithra red mage. She uses a rather different approach from what I have seen before. She focuses on +INT gear with practically no MND gear. To make up for that she eats Goblin Mushpots which give +10 to MND. She probably has higher total INT and higher total MND than most red mages her level.

A very common skillchain is Guillo -> Howling Fist which makes impaction. Her Thunder nukes commonly do 300+ damage on the magic burst. We had a black mage party with us who did 700+ damage on the same mob.. heh.

The biggest issue is that our mage line is only white mage and red mage. We never had much luck finding a black mage to party with, and bards are scarce. I don't know if its Leviathian, but there are far more melee than mages and mages being so "valuable" become lazy and don't care to do their job mostly. Bad eqiuipment, unleveled subs, etc very common. Who has time to farm when they can't go more than 5 seconds without a PT invite? Heh.

The worst two red mages I have partied with.. one was in garlidge fighting beetles at level 50.. We were like "Dispel please!" he said "Sorry, I don't have that spell." Second worst, cape terrigan robber crabs we were like "Frost please!" and he said "Sorry, I don't have that spell. Its worthless anyway."

On the flipside, smart parties level 60+ fight VT mobs instead of IT mobs. These are not hard to hit folks. A elvaan or hume red mage could lay down nice melee damage, but not more in a fight than a single nuke from the rdm I play with. What she DOES do is take over primary healing occasionally to let the white mage rest.

Even during chain #5 our white mage always has at least 50% mp before fight. Our white mage is elvaan and he is awesome. With darkstaff, summoner sub, and refresh he can get all his mp back in just a few healing ticks.

However I think what airspirit has said is all valid. A good red mage is flexible, and part of that flexibility is being ready to thrown down and fight. Almost every job runs into situations where having a change of gear is awesome.

My monk carries 3 sets of gloves, 2 belts, 3 sets of rings, 2 sets of earrings, 2 pairs of shoes, and 3 different types of food. I mainly chance it to balance damage, accuracy, and the ability to tank. No, I never join a party expected to be primary tank.. but there were too many times when I was getting the crap beat out of me when I thought "man, I wish I had defensive gear on me.."

The only thing airspirit has said that I think is suspicious is a statement about how with 150 delay dagger you can do serious damage with en- spells and doing 0 damage gives no tp to the mob. This I can agree with. You then say getting free mp back from dagger weaponskills is nice. How did you get tp while doing 0 damage? Do En- spells give tp if they do damage when your weapon does 0?

And the only thing I disagree with is gravity. You say it is a judgement call, but how can you make that when you are not a melee? I have seen mobs go from "Low defense" to "Low defense and evasion." after gravity is cast. It helps, I would say casting gravity on a monster when you have 2 or more melee in the party will allow them to do more extra damage than you will ever do with your sword. Think about it a monk or dark knight do as much damage in a combat round as you will the entire fight, if gravity allows them to connect just one extra hit each..

Thats serious damage for little mp isn't it? Frost on the other hand makes a HUGE difference, never let that one slip away.

I think the guide should be named, "Getting the most of your red mage." Cause thats what it is. Most people don't care to be the best at their job, and they are happy with 2k exp an hour. I would imagine even a taru should be READY to throw down and fight if needs be. The reason your guide is so offensive is that most red mages have a hard time recasting debuffs that wear off. Seriously.

I give this guide 2 thumbs up.
#341 Jun 16 2004 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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At lvl 55 the DEX of a Hume RDM/BLM is 49, and the DEX of an Elvaan RDM/BLM is 47. That is a 2 point difference. The author of the "Red Mage 101" guide makes it sound like it's so significant that the Elvaans will always miss, but the Humes will hit most of their targets. I seriously doubt that 2 pts will make such a difference. Is having 2 extra on your DEX good? Sure, but the author seriously blows it out of proportion. Also, it is interesting to point out that at lvl 55 an Elvann will have 7 more points of strength. Lets see, I would take 2 less points of DEX in order to gain 7 points of strength. That's not a bad trade. All these stats are base stats without any modifications and they are taken from stat calculator.
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#342 Jun 16 2004 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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If the fight is dragging on long enough that you are contributing decent TP then you should go to a beestinger and forsake melee damage and TP and do just enspells. This is rare, however, that you'll want to do this. I normally equal my enspell damage with my Hornetneedle damage and get TP nicely ... though I then drop it at the beginning of the next fight when I swap to my wand for power debuffing at later levels.

If the mob doesn't get TP, neither do you. This is the way of things. Sorry if I was unclear. There are multiple 150 delay daggers we can use.
#343 Jun 17 2004 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone else see a never ending Hume vs Elvaan ‘war?’ Seems so pointless, there will never be an Elvaan than says, “Hume RDM's Pwn j0o!!!111!!1” or vice versa.

Both races have advantages, and dissadvantages. RDM is one of those jobs you can get away with been any race for.
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#344 Jun 17 2004 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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All i can Say is WOW.

I chose the RDM for their varity and i was dissapointed when all the guides and papers i read said that melee is not an option after lev 20.

I was kinda sad to not be in the action Spot but know after reading this guide im very happy i chose Hume/RDM and that i will be able to participate more in the HItting and Bashing

Thanks for a goood guide


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    #345 Jun 17 2004 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:

    All i can Say is WOW.

    I chose the RDM for their varity and i was dissapointed when all the guides and papers i read said that melee is not an option after lev 20.

    I was kinda sad to not be in the action Spot but know after reading this guide im very happy i chose Hume/RDM and that i will be able to participate more in the HItting and Bashing

    Thanks for a goood guide



    It is not as much that you should not melee after 20... it is just that you will not be a second tier melee anymore. I still melee and when applicable (when I pick up 70+ tp on a mob and still have alot of mp) I can even find time to be in a SC when necessary. Meleeing becomes expensive post 20 because you have to buy a second set of gear. And at lvl 39 (/em braces for the rebukes and flaming) I still melee and participate in a skill chain if it makes sense to save tp... or if the mob is really weak. However when my mp reaches 0 I take a knee.
    ____________________________
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    MargavineLiselle wrote:
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    Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
    #346 Jun 18 2004 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
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    Im a tarutaru rdm, and recently bought a pair or morion earings, and a pair of electrum rings. Im wondering if I should save up my gils and get a pair of saintly +1 and eremite +1 instead. The extra mp is nice, and I dont the mind the hp lost because of my RSE gear which gives hp bonuses. However, most of the time the extra mp is not needed because of refresh and convert. For those that are TT rdm's, what rings did you get?
    #347 Jun 19 2004 at 5:50 PM Rating: Default
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    I am a thf lvl 55, and a lot of my friends and ls buddys have some other high lvl jobs, while i dont, and im begining to think, thanks to this thread, that i will be lvling up rdm. I also cant wait to see my mithra in af. I found your guide very usefull for me and i bookmarked it. Since i have a semi-high lvl thf, and a lot of high lvl friends i should be able to get some good stuff, and with thf, i should be able to afford most of this. I can't wait to start rdm ^^
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    #348 Jun 21 2004 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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    Aerynlia wrote:
    ...I chose Elvaan as my race. Your guide makes me want to start all over, totally drop my 55RDM Elvaan and start all over as a Hume. ... For example, I've never used an equipment macro in my life, even though I carry around some extra equipment, and I have so little money it's ridiculous. There are many things that I pass up because I simply cannot afford them. ...
    ----------------------------
    Aerynlia | Titan server
    [ RDM55 ][ WHM 29 ][ BLM18 ][ SMN13 ]


    Aerynlia,

    In the time it takes you to play up a new HUME RDM55/WHM29/BLM18 you could raise fishing to level 60, or go mining/smithing/goldsmithing, or camp an NM for a couple months. Any of those activities could net you more than enough gil to max out your Elvaan RDM's equipment.

    With all of our extra HP, the HP->MP conversion gear is more effective for Elvaan than any other race. Pick up a pair of Astral rings, Gold Hairpin +1, Astral Shield etc. As you burn through your MP, swap in the +int/+mnd gear as needed.

    If you plan a HUME and have no money and crappy gear, you're going to be far more gimped in the game, than playing an Elvaan with good or great gear.

    - Ruuki
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    #349 Jun 23 2004 at 2:24 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Im a tarutaru rdm, and recently bought a pair or morion earings, and a pair of electrum rings. Im wondering if I should save up my gils and get a pair of saintly +1 and eremite +1 instead. The extra mp is nice, and I dont the mind the hp lost because of my RSE gear which gives hp bonuses. However, most of the time the extra mp is not needed because of refresh and convert. For those that are TT rdm's, what rings did you get?


    When I had a chance to get electrums and the +3 set, I chose to get both whenever possible. from 40-54 my convert ration still favored my HP side. At 65 or so it started to favor the MP side post food.

    Is it nice to have the +3 rings? Yes. You don't have to change them until the +4 rings at lvl 71 and they can be used for your sub jobs.

    I did not get the +1 +3 rings at all but I did get the +2 MND and +2 INT ones instead. If I had the cash, I'd get the saintly/ermite +1 but in my opinion its not worth the cash you law down IF your sub is fully leveled. (mine was 30 because I got bored of dispel farming at 32)

    Just to summarize, use electrum rings for convert issues (maximize the HP -> MP gain then take off after the cures for the + stat rings) and get the + stat rings for debuffs and nukes.

    edit for proper lvl for +4 rings

    Edited, Wed Jun 23 18:26:23 2004 by IdiotBeacon
    #350 Jun 23 2004 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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    I'm happily surprised to see there are so many security geeks out there playing RDM - it's certainly not a class for the unintellectual.

    That said, wouldn't it seem logical to look at a network transcript to determine whether this specific decision is being made on the client or server rather than trying to decompile the binaries? A tool as simple as tcpdump could get you a reasonable amount of output which you could begin deciphering and it would probably take an awful lot less time than figuring out the decompiled ASM.
    ____________________________
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    #351 Jun 23 2004 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
    46 posts
    Thanks for the reply. I decided to sell my electrum for now, and continue to use my eremite and saintly rings until I buy the +1 versions. I finally started to use the /equip commands in my spell macros and boy did that make a difference.
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