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Drop that Kard! (RANT)Follow

#1 Apr 11 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Default
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If I see one more Lv.75 DNC using a Kard in thier off-hand I'm going to punch a kitten. SRSLYWTF You do know its god awful for your dmg and it only add's a maximum of 5hp to your Curing Waltz IV, and even less to lower tiers. 5 FREAKING HP!!!1

You could get a NQ BK for less than 10k I mean seriously what is wrong with you?! I know how THF's feel now who actually take the time to gear themselves properly then see idiots running around with a Heartsnatcher, it's the same thing!
#2 Apr 11 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a low delay, medium damage dagger with chr on it. While it may not be the most powerful choice of weaponry for a dnc's overall damage, I'm going to assume that since people suggest getting a cobra unit dagger for dnc that (same damage as a Kard but an even lower delay of 171) having a low delay so that you can get TP faster would be a good thing.

The fact of the matter is, while it may not be the end all best sub-hand weapon - hell it may not even be a great one, but it's certainly not on the same level of horribleness as a Heart Snatcher is. Sure, at 75 it's a pretty gimpy weapon to have, and there are a ton of alternatives, but its not *that* bad that it'll stop a Dancer from doing thier job alright, unless you find yourself hitting for zero on an HNM because of it or something. Beleive me there are *far* worse things that I've seen other dnc wearing to complain about.





Edited, Apr 11th 2009 4:02pm by ShibayamaG
#3 Apr 11 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
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I think you mean low delay and low damage. This weapon is straight garbage for all but 2 lvs. If you want to talk about DE boosts you will see a better result from off handing a higher dmg dagger than a lolCHR+5 low dmg dagger. Having a lower delay also means you gain less TP from the hits landed, and your hardly swining any faster.

If your lv. 68-69 thats fine you don't have many options.
But at Lv.75 There is BK, BK+1, Ermine's Tail, Joyuese, Matron's Knife, Adder/Khaimera/Jambiya, Azoth, Mighty Knife ect... That will give you better results in DPS, and WS's. All far superior to a 5HP boost to Curing Waltz IV, which is all it has going for it.
#4 Apr 11 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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I'm aware that the Kard isnt quite as just about all of the options you listed...


But my point was - which offense if more kitten-punchable? A Dnc subbing a Kard or a Dnc DDing at 75 with an AF body, Head and Hands at 75? Because to be honest I see way more people with the latter than the former sadly.



Edited, Apr 11th 2009 2:59pm by ShibayamaG
#5 Apr 11 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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ok so my Heart Snatcher that Ifinally got and started breaking latent on will not be helpful off-hand with my Azoth and +Crit.% merits ? :/
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#6 Apr 11 2009 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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i remember being so psyhced the day i got my heartsnatcher... >.>
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#7 Apr 11 2009 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I too was psyched about the 3k I would be getting for NPCing my heartsnatcher ^-^
#8 Apr 11 2009 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Skreechy wrote:
ok so my Heart Snatcher that Ifinally got and started breaking latent on will not be helpful off-hand with my Azoth and +Crit.% merits ? :/


Pretty much
#9 Apr 11 2009 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Aww you guys makin me wanna cry lol
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#10 Apr 12 2009 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like you guys broke Skreechy's heart. Quick! See if he has any new hidden effects!
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#11Sovisove, Posted: May 02 2009 at 8:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) azoth main hand and heartsnatcher off hand is way i roll! XD ppl clown on the dagger but in end the dagger shines... well at least for me i got crits merited and tbh its lil nutz when you got nice haste build and full time saber dance. the dagger spams criticals which in most cases is good thing and critcals on hnm really do sperate ya from rest :x
#12 May 02 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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HS's crit only applies on one hand.
I wish DNC can use blau or something :[ or I would get it to seh-fen-tee-fa-ve.
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#13 May 04 2009 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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I use Azoth main hand and Ermine's Tail offhanded =) Oh and in campiagn since the mobs have low evasion Joyeuse is awesome too =D (With full sword merit..I dont know how it is without)
#14 May 04 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I use Azoth main hand and Ermine's Tail offhanded =) Oh and in campiagn since the mobs have low evasion Joyeuse is awesome too =D (With full sword merit..I dont know how it is without)


How nice for you >_>;;

To everyone else that doesn't want to spam lolMMM for 6 months straight:

Azoth/BK+1 > Azoth/Jambiya > Jambiya/BK+1 > Jambiya/CUK = BK+1/CUK

give or take. CUK is fail IMO, but that's just me. I'm too poor for an Azoth so I roll with Jambiya/BK+1.
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#15 May 04 2009 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I just had to have an Azoth when I hit 75 so I spent 1.5 million on it.
Now it's at least around 1.1 or lower(have not checked lately)
3k for my Azoth from NPC? <<<Good lord what's wrong with me 3k for HS lol
Cool. money is money i guess..

Edited, May 7th 2009 9:05am by Skreechy
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#16 May 04 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I wish DNC can use blau or something


I swear if I see one more person say this...*grrrr*

Quote:
Azoth/adder jambiya > Azoth/Khimaira jambiya > Azoth/BK+1 > Azoth/Jambiya > Azoth/joyeuse > Jambiya/BK+1 > Jambiya/CUK = BK+1/CUK


fixed

As soon as star sapphires get down to less than a mil on my server im just going after adder and saying screw ermine's


Edited, May 4th 2009 6:07pm by Kalisa
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#17 May 04 2009 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
It all depends on playstyles.

Honestly I don't think Azoth is worth it's pricetag. I prefer E-Tail/Joyeuse combo over Azoth/E-Tail. I don't have E-Tail as of yet, so I use Jambiya for the time being for main hand damage. If I know I can get haste from a friend, or a SMN in campaign, and I just want to have fun with low delay, I can equip Master Casters Knife (176) + Cobra Unit Knife (171) and use Saber Dance. What a person equips in campaign really doesn't matter because it's not hurting you.
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#18 May 04 2009 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:

Azoth/adder jambiya > Azoth/Khimaira jambiya > Azoth/BK+1 > Azoth/Jambiya > Azoth/joyeuse > Jambiya/BK+1 > Jambiya/CUK = BK+1/CUK



fixed

As soon as star sapphires get down to less than a mil on my server im just going after adder and saying screw ermine's


How is Azoth/Joyeuse > Jambiya/BK+1? We're talking daggers here... don't muddle things up by tossing in a lolsword.

I did forget about Adder/Khimaira because they have been historically unattainable for most of us, but Star Sapphires are moving towards reasonable prices lately.
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#19 May 05 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally just use Jambiya x2, Cheapest daggers that aren't laughable, at least the ones that I can afford ._.

I HAVE tried for the Kard multiple times... for LOOKS though. I like how it looks like a kitchen knife XD
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#20 May 05 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Lothiriel wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

Azoth/adder jambiya > Azoth/Khimaira jambiya > Azoth/BK+1 > Azoth/Jambiya > Azoth/joyeuse > Jambiya/BK+1 > Jambiya/CUK = BK+1/CUK



fixed

As soon as star sapphires get down to less than a mil on my server im just going after adder and saying screw ermine's


How is Azoth/Joyeuse > Jambiya/BK+1? We're talking daggers here... don't muddle things up by tossing in a lolsword.

I did forget about Adder/Khimaira because they have been historically unattainable for most of us, but Star Sapphires are moving towards reasonable prices lately.


Since it rains down on you in ANNMs

I also assume the Azoth/Joyeuse being > Jambiya/BK+1 for TP gain..but every job these days (COR/DNC etc) seems to prefer a joyeuse next to just about everything else they can use.
#21 May 06 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I too was psyched about the 3k I would be getting for NPCing my heartsnatcher ^-^

lol
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#22 May 06 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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I also assume the Azoth/Joyeuse being > Jambiya/BK+1 for TP gain..but every job these days (COR/DNC etc) seems to prefer a joyeuse next to just about everything else they can use.


I personally do not like Joyuse for DNC, and the reason for that is I tend to stack accuracy and eat meat when meleeing -- something I often do with my THF. The only time I have problems keeping up with TP is doing really nasty AOE enemies in Dynamis.

And I have a friend signed Adder Jambiya, so I will nearly always making sure that A Jambiya goes into one spot >_>.
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#23 May 06 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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you are right Tummie. I just got a wild hair up my ass and then just had to have an Azoth....
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#24 May 06 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Kard main with heart snatcher off!

Heart snatcher doesn't look that terrible. While there definitely are better options out there, it does look pretty comparable to everything except Azoth/etail. Snatcher's lower DPS doesn't include the crit rate, so it isn't as inferior as it appears!

Perhaps someone more familiar with finding expected damage could rerun the numbers, but tried to compare with a damage calculator against G.Colibri 400 base attack and 75str and got:
HS: 25-46(35.5) crit 66-87(76.5)
BK: 27-48(37.5) crit 70-91(80.5)
B+1:28-50(39.0) crit 72-93(82.5)
Jam:27-50(38.5) crit 72-95(83.5)

Using 10% base crit rate
HS: 35.5*.84+76.5*.16=42.06
BK: 37.5*.90+80.5*.10=41.80
B+1:39.0*.90+82.5*.10=43.35
Jam:38.5*.90+83.5*.10=43.00

Heart snatcher fell behind BK+1 and Jam, though if you were going to be using a BK, which seems like the default cheap dagger, it's on par. At the very least you're better off with a HS and non-full timed AF since optical hat or SH/AJ alone can easily close that gap.
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#25 Jun 01 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Requim wrote:
Snatcher's lower DPS doesn't include the crit rate, so it isn't as inferior as it appears!


It is more inferior than it appears.

Acceptable daggers are really not that hard to come by. There is no good reason to use this dagger....unless maybe you are desperately trying to cut somethings head off with crits.
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