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Mirke Waldecors - What would you add?Follow

#1 Mar 23 2009 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
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I was reading about the new augmentable attributes you can add to the new armor from the new mini expansion, and was trying to think what I would go for. Since my DNC already has Etoile Casaque and there would be no point in adding Acc and Attk, what would be a good TP 'or' overall piece to have?

Acc +10
Eva + 10
Attk + 10
STP+4 SB+4
Double attk + 2%
Enmity -5
Enhances Dual Weild ( +3%)
#2 Mar 23 2009 at 3:30 AM Rating: Good
Yeah. Since I have Etoile Casaque too I'm thinking about my stats. I think I would go with Dual Wield and Double attack. Could be a nice Saberdance Combination. And when I don't hit enough I can still switch to Relic Body. But I'm still thinking.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 7:50am by Mikesama
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#3 Mar 23 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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I'm stunned by the options available. They look absolutely fantastic.

I was wondering pretty much the same thing. Assuming you add Accuracy +10 and Attack +10, we have our own Haubergeon. And that is exceptionally difficult to defeat.

I was also toying with the idea of combining the Dual Wield enhancement with Accuracy +10. Although the Haste from the Rapparee Harness likely trumps the Dual Wield enhancement, the only problem with the harness is that it suffers on higher level mobs outside of extremely high Haste conditions. Perhaps the Mirke with Dual Wield and Accuracy would be a particularly nice TP piece, especially if you're a /NIN fan.

I have to give this a lot of thought. :p
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#4 Mar 23 2009 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
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Things that jumped out for me:
Double attack, Accuracy, Dual Wield.
I am currently the highest level DNC in my linkshell and 71 atm so I'll get the Etoile body eventually (gogo northlands spam!). Considering this, I could add Accuracy and Double Attack (for WS?), or make it a TP piece and add Accuracy and Dual Wield. Or add Dual Wield and Double attack.
Any combination of these things should work fine I guess, but needs more thinking ><
#5 Mar 23 2009 at 5:29 AM Rating: Good
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**** SE for giving us another difficult decision...first G2 merits and now this. XD


Well I dont have DNC relic body (yet) but giving up my rapp harness even for that for TP will be a difficult decision. I was planning on keeping rapp harness on and just using relic body for stun macroes and WS.

Now that we have this option I will probably create our best WS body piece (since as I predicted, they're not going to give us the option of throwing haste on to augments.) So I'll probably go with the att/acc +10. This way I can also use it as a step macro body piece and sell of my SH+1.
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#6 Mar 23 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm planning on going Dual Wield + Accuracy for mine. 5 dex + 10 accuracy is 12.5 accuracy, which I believe is the best accuracy body a dancer can get. (It even beats the Relic Body for accuracy purporses)

As far as TP goes, I believe Dual wield and haste are worth exactly the same thing; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The rapparee harness would become a utsusemi:Ni recast body. Sure, it's 1% less "haste", but even with 4% haste, the rap was only situationnally better than a scorpion harness.

A Dex+5 Accuracy+10 Dual Wield +3% body would be the best of both worlds, not to mention the extra 5 Str and 5 Agi that still count for something.
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#7 Mar 23 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
I usually sub SAM so I'm tempted by STP/SB+. Since I don't have relic body *shakes fist at Xarcabard* I'll probably go ATT/ACC+, keep my SH for EVA macro and store my AJ...though ACC+ and DA+ with Sabre Dance would be sweet too...bah so many options o.O
#8 Mar 23 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Lianda wrote:

As far as TP goes, I believe Dual wield and haste are worth exactly the same thing; someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Just did the math on this, there will be no difference between dual wield and haste for DNC as far as attack speed or TP rate goes (unless you use Ermine's+CUK 4.7 to 4.6 boo-hoo XD). 1% Haste vs. 10 acc is an easy decision to make.
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#9 Mar 23 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a sidegrade from Enkidu's/Etoile at best.

COR and especially RNG got real benefit from the augment system.
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#10 Mar 23 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Default
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Didn't even give this a second thought for DNC. I think Enkidus harness is probably better. I'll be using this for RNG and sidegrading for O-sode.

But if I was to use it for DNC

ACC +10
and
DW +3%
or
ATT +10

Edit: Spelling

Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 6:05pm by Lostkaws
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#11FloppyFish, Posted: Mar 23 2009 at 3:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hmmm, I was under the impression that we would only be able to augment the new gear released with the expansion <.<; and that the augments would be incredibly lame.. like Wind +10 and Wind Damage.
#12 Mar 23 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Umm, it's all over the official site.... >.> <.<

I still have no idea what to get. :(
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#13 Mar 23 2009 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I found a link on some other forums actually every jobs forum but this one to be exact. If anyone else wants to see them. I'll prolly get Redcoat with M.acc+4 and 5% Fast Cast for my BRD sence there is hardly anything I could do to improve my Dancer.
#14 Mar 23 2009 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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I am a little confused about this.

Our best (situational) TP pieces are R. Harness/Etoile Casaque, right?

So we get a piece that has nearly the same delay reduction.. as well as 2.5atk/12.5acc/2.5eva and.. it's not the best piece? In a situation you're lacking in acc and lose the 4% from R. Harness.. you can get MORE acc as well as a delay reduction on this piece.. on top of the inherit benefeit to WS (although this may not be true..E. Body may win due to lack of atk cap?)

Or in a situation where you do NOT need the acc.. R. Harness wins.. but.. having an extra 12.5 acc is not a small figure along with the other stats on the suggested body.. I -personally- prefer Joytoy and that build suffers from acc for sword pretty heavily..

Regardless. I am personally very excited and will be choosing the above piece unless someone can convince me otherwise..



edit before I get flamed:

Enkidu is a really nice piece too, I was selfish in not listing it because personally it's not an obtainable item at the moment. I already run with SH+1 and R. Harness and am in line for an Etoile Body though - forgive me for not listing it.

Maybe it's my personal playstyle - but I prefer TP accumulation en masse to the DoT increase from the ATK.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 10:37pm by EmotionBlues

double edit: Geez, it has +5 Store TP on it too.. hard to argue that I guess - but the Mirke still win IMO if you can't get Enkidu. :l idk.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 10:38pm by EmotionBlues
#15 Mar 23 2009 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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FloppyFish wrote:
I found a link on some other forums actually every jobs forum but this one to be exact. If anyone else wants to see them. I'll prolly get Redcoat with M.acc+4 and 5% Fast Cast for my BRD sence there is hardly anything I could do to improve my Dancer.


I'll be thinking along these line to and improve my PLD instead with Fast Cast and enmity +5
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#16 Mar 23 2009 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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The problem is that people are trying to make this piece benefit 1 of their set ups.

For ages most jobs that are not on haubergeon wanted a body that was the same as it. Now the option is there and everyone wants to either side grade or completely downgrade.

It's known that enkidus is your best option for tp/ws but it also lacks 5 dex. Tests were done and calculations and enkidu pretty much wins as best piece. Here's the chance to have a piece that is even better than enkidu for any set up and people want to downgrade.
#17 Mar 23 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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If you are dual-wielding and you have a decent haste setup (20%), then:

Quote:
ACC +10
and
DW +3%


wins.

The DW is going to add at least 6% DoT alone when stacked with capped Haste Samba, and that's before you get haste from mage or march from bard (or both), which would push it up even higher. (I did the math for this in the BLU thread.)

Basically, this is almost certainly the best TP piece for all Dual-Wielding jobs using a reasonable haste setup and assuming mage support (especially if that includes a bard).

Since you would not have ATK on this, I believe Enkidu's would still win for WS.

If the utility for TP build is a reason to get it or not is the part we all get to figure out (and fortunately we can even change our minds if we later want). Some jobs aren't going to get much out of their options, others would.

Incidentally, ACC and Enmity would be far more useful for PLD than FC and Enmity. Faster Atonements and more strikes dealing damage (plus enmity for every action) beats the pants off of a marginal FC bonus, especially since double March and Haste is all you need to cap timers anyway (assuming ~15% haste in gear).
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#18 Mar 23 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems to me that people plan to mimic enkidu harness. I have enkidu harness already so im leaning towards something different.

Dex+5 Str +5 Agi +5. with Double Attack +2 and Dual wield +3.

I have 8/8 dagger merits.
Azoth/Joytoy
War Hoop
Optical Hat/Walahra
Peacock amulet
Suppa/Brutal
Enkidu's mittens
Thunder Ring/Accuracy ring/Rajas ring
Amemet mantle +1 (working on a etoile cape)
Swift Belt
Pahluwan seraweels/enkidu's subligar
Denali gamashes/enkidu's leggings.

Is more acc/att needed for this setup? I personally like the idea of faster TP vs higher DOT.
thoughts?


#19 Mar 24 2009 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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I think more acc would still be good for you but I haven't calculated it as the time is past 1am and I'm a bit tired. Regardless, consider that ultimately you would like to stack more haste gear if you are able, and you should see that going ACC on the body will make it more feasible. Additionally, your dagger merits aren't helping your joyeuse, and DA can't proc on a Joy proc, so you have two more reasons to make ACC the higher priority.
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#20 Mar 24 2009 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
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Nate's calculations in the BLU forum have pretty much confirmed the choice I'm going to make. Accuracy +10 and the Dual Wield enhancement really is too good to pass up. Not only does it improve our DoT (by virtue of having a substantial amount of rather easy-to-obtain haste gear and fully-merited Haste Samba) but I'm quite certain it has been confirmed that reducing your delay whilst Dual Wielding (as much as you can) significantly improves your TP gain over time - which, of course, is invaluable to DNC in whatever role they fill.

And I don't think there are a lot of gear options out there that can do both of those at the same time. Very exciting.

Thanks, Nate - for sharing your calculations.

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#21 Mar 24 2009 at 5:29 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe its the lack of sleep....maybe its the strong pain killers that I'm on atm...but I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding the detriments/benefits of having the dual wield augment in place of the 4% haste from rapp harness.


Let me clarify that. With the dual wield we get reduced delay, but the trade off is less tp gain per hit right? So not including things like hit %, in the long run would you get more hits with the haste or with the DW%? Or how about this, if you TP in brutal earring and rajas ring for 6 STP would that compensate for the loss in TP/hit?


On a side note, I'm browsing the THF forums and their praising this body (with 10 acc and DW%) as being a Homam corazza +1. I may just jump on ship when I start understanding the math that goes along with it. XD
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#22 Mar 24 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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What stands out to me at this moment is the +5 enmity augment. I just got Fan Dance and I'm thinking a Enmity setup for Fan Dance. Not on the Mirke, but maybe some high defense or evasion armor pieces. I'd like to be able to keep hate faster at the beginning of a fight before Waltzes allow me to.
And yeah everything else does too. This is so cool. I hope it's everything we hope it to be(within reason lol)

Edited, Mar 24th 2009 8:49am by Skreechy
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#23 Mar 24 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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I was also considering the +5 enmity. Most of the time that I am using dancer it is solo, or a lowman tank situation. The idea of +10 evasion and +5 enmity appeals to me. Now I only need to get the chance to use it more.
#24 Mar 24 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Default
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I'm planning on adding EVA/Dual Wield.

It's going to be my Ballista body.

Or maybe help me add stats that will benefit DNC in what I do most now (Limbus, Merit, Dynamis, Ballista, Soro)

My current setup is as follows:
Jambiya/Joy/Warhoop
Walmart Turban (O.hat for WS)
Chiv Chain
Suppa/Diablos Earring
R.Harness (Ass jerkin for WS)
Dusk Gloves (Cobra for the ACC/WS)
Rajas/Ulthalems
Amemet+1
Swift Belt (Life Belt for WS)
Etoile Tights (Can swap in Cobra for more ACC but I like the STR/CHR for DE)
Dancers Toe shoes.

Any suggestions on what would be an OMG upgrade with this new body? The +10EVA and +DW is an OMG upgrade to my current Ballista setup (EVA) which is as follows:

Jamibya/Joy/Warhoop
O.Hat
Eva Torque
The +5/+3 eva earrings
Scorpion Harness
The +5 magey LV50 gear (Working on denali)
Ulthalems/ The +2EVA lv 45ish(?) ring
Bat Cape
Life Belt (No Scouter's on AH yet;;)
Crow pants
Dancers Toe Shoes


Eh, I added nothing productive to this thread...but maybe any advice given to me can help someone else!

Edited, Mar 24th 2009 12:49pm by Hiswhitewings
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#25 Mar 24 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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Hiswhitewings wrote:
Any suggestions on what would be an OMG upgrade with this new body? The +10EVA and +DW is an OMG upgrade to my current Ballista setup (EVA) which is as follows:

I'm not sure how gaining 2.5 evasion (5 agi) at the cost of 7.5 accuracy (-10 accuracy +5 dex) is an OMG upgrade for Ballisata.

Assuming random numbers: Let's say people were hitting you 40% of the time, and you were hitting them 70% of the time. If you do the upgrade you suggest (SH for that new body + Evasion + DW), you'd get hit 39% of the time, and you would hit them 66% of the time, but with an additonal 3% dual wield speed.

Your ballista gear doesn't stack haste or dual wield reduction, so cutting your delay by an additional 3% wouldn't have that much of an effect.

If you really want to make it your Ballista outfit, I'd suggest +10 acc +10 evasion instead, really. It would become some kind of SH+2 instead.
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#26 Mar 24 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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It is an OMG upgrade to me, most likely because I'm a ballista fanatic and everything I do is I keep bettering my ballista gear in mind. Thanks for giving me hard numbers though. It makes the comparison a lot easier to make.

My ballista ACC is fine since the opponent is about EM and I usually pop Crab Sushi for ACC if there are a lot of evasive jobs in the match.

But again, I really appreciate the numbers. Comparing numbers is a lot easier than comparing hypothetical situations.
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#27 Mar 24 2009 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Delay reduction will usually increase TP gain rate for dual-wield jobs, even after the old nerf reduced the high amounts once possible.

Here's the link to the old vs new comparison.

Here's the link that shows TP gain rates at current values of delay.

Basically, if you are using a 450 delay weapon, you can increase your TP gain rate by increasing your delay (getting a comparable weapon with higher delay being the easiest method). This trend continues until you hit a weapon with about 530 delay, and from there you definitely don't want any more delay as there is a sharp decline in TP gain. Alternately, the other option is that if you are using a 450 delay weapon, you can increase your TP gain rate by decreasing your delay. There is no point at which a lower delay will do anything but allow you to gain TP faster, if you opt to move in this direction. Reducing your delay to 180 will allow you to gain TP at an approximately equal rate to a 530 delay weapon. Any lower delay than that and you pull sharply ahead (any higher delay for them and they pull sharply behind).

The other things that affect TP gain are DA, TA, and STP (as I'm sure you know). DA and TA, although they give more TP to a person using a high delay weapon, have many more proc opportunities for a person using a low delay weapon. So, those traits have an increasing effect on TP gain as push to lower your delay. STP, on the other hand, is particularly appealing to high delay users because the ability to save one or two hits on the way to 100TP represents a much larger percentage of their total swings required, and also because it's easy to get.

Easy way to remember it is to just follow the arrows (it's only good to go up in one small range of values):

<----450---->530<----
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#28 Mar 24 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kalisa wrote:
Maybe its the lack of sleep....maybe its the strong pain killers that I'm on atm...but I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding the detriments/benefits of having the dual wield augment in place of the 4% haste from rapp harness.


Let me clarify that. With the dual wield we get reduced delay, but the trade off is less tp gain per hit right? So not including things like hit %, in the long run would you get more hits with the haste or with the DW%? Or how about this, if you TP in brutal earring and rajas ring for 6 STP would that compensate for the loss in TP/hit?


On a side note, I'm browsing the THF forums and their praising this body (with 10 acc and DW%) as being a Homam corazza +1. I may just jump on ship when I start understanding the math that goes along with it. XD

First, read Nate's post above mine. Note that below 200 delay, tp gains are increased at a higher rate than any other range. Adding DW will STILL increase TP. As for comparing against Rapp, you're comparing 3 DW to 4 haste, and ignoring 5 STR 5 DEX and whatever else you put on here(10 acc is my choice). 10 ACC will always beat 1 % haste, unless you are capping acc at some point and losing some of the benefit of 10 acc.
Math:

Going from 79 to 80% haste is a 5% increase:
21/20=1.05
Going from 90% hit rate to 95% hit rate is a 5.55¯% increase:
95/90=1.055¯%

Incidentally, without any other haste, Rapp is worse than even SH(also, swift and life belt). It's equal to SH if SH caps your Acc and you have 24% haste before you use rapp. This is achievable with gear and haste samba. However, you usually are not capping acc. At a lower %, say, 80% hit rate(6.25% increase from 10 acc), it takes 32% haste before adding rapp makes it equal to SH, meaning you'd need 10% from haste samba, the 17% available from gear, and an additional form of haste, march or haste spell, to make it worth it.

Now the STR will give you 2.5~6.0% increase as well, and the 5 DEX is an additional 2.5 ACC, so in reality if you do the 10 ACC, and we exclude the 3% DW for a moment, the new armor gives atleast 9.24% increase(excluding the 2.5 ATK, and if you cap acc). Since you normally won't cap ACC, this number will generally be higher in any case. So already Rapp has to be at 53% haste before equipping it to be even. This requires 17% other haste in gear, haste samba 10%, Haste, and March. If you were at 80% hit rate, then this number would be 56% haste, which would require double march to match it. This goes even further if the fSTR goes up twice, or if you had lower damage weapons that I used(35 damage weapons with 2 fSTR).

This was all excluding the second stat. DW +3% in my opinion being the best of those, will add to the 20% you should already have(unless you don't /NIN) and would give you atleast a 3.896% increase. This is hands down much much better than Rapp, even if Rapp gets all the favors and support.

Edit: tagfail

Edited, Mar 24th 2009 7:47pm by Souji
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#29 Mar 25 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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What about the Store TP+4? (and i guess it comes with Subtle Blow too)
How does that com pair against the duel wield?

my top mains are BLU,DNC and COR... i'm trying to decide what would be best for em.
I'm not a fan of /NIN (unless I need shadows), I prefer BLU/THF or /WAR, DNC/SAM and COR/RNG... So the duel wield wouldn't really benifit me too much.
I guess I'll forgo the COR and ranged augments...

SO I guess Acc+ helps me all around... and Store TP+ instead of dual wield?

#30 Mar 25 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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on 1 hand weapons? I'd get DA before store TP, combining with brutal and Saber dance it'd help more than the little tp boost you'd get per hit.
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#31 Mar 25 2009 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Delarius wrote:
on 1 hand weapons? I'd get DA before store TP, combining with brutal and Saber dance it'd help more than the little tp boost you'd get per hit.


This, or I'd make some sort of hybrid unit like 10 acc 10 racc since you have COR. Basically, you'll probably have to decide a job you want to prioritize over the other 2 and pick a stat that only helps it, or only two, or one that helps all but is weaker than a specific one. 2% DA is definitely weaker than 10 acc(and by extension, 10 racc), but will help all jobs that are up and meleeing face to face.
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#32 Mar 25 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally I'm toying with the an ev tank set up.

For tanking, I WAS trying to decide between antares harness' 8 eva or avalon's 3 emnitty.

Now I dont need to, +10 eva and +5 emnitty beats both pieces combined, thats 12.5 eva and a sizable chunk of emnitty.

If I can cap eva without it I'd prolly swap for double att/ crit rate + for my solo darkness SC and replace it with avalon breastplate's much higher def.

#33 Apr 11 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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souji wrote:
Delarius wrote:

on 1 hand weapons? I'd get DA before store TP, combining with brutal and Saber dance it'd help more than the little tp boost you'd get per hit.


This, or I'd make some sort of hybrid unit like 10 acc 10 racc since you have COR. Basically, you'll probably have to decide a job you want to prioritize over the other 2 and pick a stat that only helps it, or only two, or one that helps all but is weaker than a specific one. 2% DA is definitely weaker than 10 acc(and by extension, 10 racc), but will help all jobs that are up and meleeing face to face.


I'm not sure how 2% DA fairs when combined with 10% TA and 5%DA from Brutal, but for jobs that cannot TA, 2%DA is a 1.9% DoT boost when going from 5%DA to 7%DA. I'm betting that gain is even less when factoring in Triple attack.

10att is pretty much = 2%DA (probably slightly better)

Its the 3% DW that is the obvious runner up to 10ACC for DW-ing melee's.

5STR 5DEX 10ACC 3%DW for THF/NINs would make it a better tp piece than homam/SH/rap.

5STR 5DEX 10ACC 3%DW would make it a better piece then Chainmail+1/Haub for Nin. (not sure at Haub+1 comparisons, the Mirke might beat Haub+1 for nin as a tp piece because the 3%DW is a 4.8% boost for a suppa nin. 1STR 1DEX 2acc 2att would need to be a ~2.5 - 3% DoT boost, an idt it is).

EDIT: lol thought this was the Thf forum (clicked the link from souji in a thread from The Assassin's Den). /salute dancers




Edited, Apr 11th 2009 8:12pm by Sandmasterr

Edited, Apr 11th 2009 8:15pm by Sandmasterr
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#34 Apr 12 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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So 3% DW beats out 2% DA?

My chances of getting enkidu or relic body any time in the foreseeable future is pretty much nil so I'm looking to make this a DNC (and maybe BLU if I ever finish it) TP piece, but I'm torn between going acc/DW and acc/DA.
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#35 Apr 12 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So 3% DW beats out 2% DA?

My chances of getting enkidu or relic body any time in the foreseeable future is pretty much nil so I'm looking to make this a DNC (and maybe BLU if I ever finish it) TP piece, but I'm torn between going acc/DW and acc/DA.


If you have Suppa and Brutal earrings /NIN,

the 3% DW will be twice as good as the 2% DA for TP purposes.
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#36 Apr 12 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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I did the ole standby 10 ACC 10 ATT. As my DNC isn't that high yet, I just went with a safe bet. I am sure I will have to change something once it is 75.
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Lisette - 80 Blood Elf Mage - Exodar
Veteran of Dead of Winter
Tailor: 450 Engineer: 450 Cooking: 450 Fishing: 450 First Aid: 450
Mounts: 63 Pets: 63






#37 Apr 12 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
25 posts
help me!
ok so im lvl 75 w/ capped dagger merits. soon to have closed position 5/5. anyone know how to calculate capped accuracy for dancer?
factoring in capped dagger, 5/5 closed position (and accuracy food) im going for fastest tp gain possible (dot is not as important).
azoth/joyeuse
Denali Bonnet/Turban (can anyone determine which is better over time?)
Peacock amulet
Suppa/Brutal
Dusk gloves
sniper/Rajas
amemet+1
swift belt
etoile tights
enkidu leggings.

and for body augments i was debating...
+10 accuracy/DW OR
DW+3/DA+2

ideas?
#38 Apr 12 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
3,636 posts
I went +3 dual wield +10 accuracy. I don't scorn people that went the Hauby route, but neither do I think it's the best choice.
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