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Elegywtferasebroken?!Follow

#1 Feb 26 2009 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
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So I noticed in meritpo on coilibri.. that when they sometimes reflected elegy back onto a pt member. I could not erase it, for the life of me. Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone else know a reason why?
#2 Feb 26 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Healing Waltz can't erase songs. Simple as that.
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#3 Feb 26 2009 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's a bit of logic why a dancer can't erase the effect of songs, if you think about it for a minute :)
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#4FloppyFish, Posted: Feb 26 2009 at 8:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Huh! Logic... Is that a sports drink? No sorry I suppose this OP was silly of me to ask. I was just wondering if MY BRD/NIN could somehow (in an alternate universe where I can ballista myself) defeat my DNC/NIN (by stacking elegys). So far my DNC has been a beast in balista and... IS THERE NO ONE ElSE?!
#5 Feb 26 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Default
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Lianda wrote:
There's a bit of logic why a dancer can't erase the effect of songs, if you think about it for a minute :)
Yes. Smiley: lol

FloppyFish wrote:
Huh! Logic... Is that a sports drink?
Smiley: disappointed
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#6 Feb 27 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
does anyone else know a reason why?


They, like you, are a slave to the rhythm.
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#7 Feb 27 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
FloppyFish wrote:
does anyone else know a reason why?


Blame the French. Everyone else does.
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#8 Feb 27 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Lianda wrote:
There's a bit of logic why a dancer can't erase the effect of songs, if you think about it for a minute :)


Is it the same logic that says when you sing a song as brd with sneak and invis up, the invis drops yet snk remains?
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#9 Feb 27 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Is it the same logic that says when you sing a song as brd with sneak and invis up, the invis drops yet snk remains?


Huh, I never thought about that.
#10 Feb 27 2009 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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BrimstoneFox wrote:
Is it the same logic that says when you sing a song as brd with sneak and invis up, the invis drops yet snk remains?

I believe this is part of the same design decision that made it so you can recast invisbile on yourself, but you can't do it as easily for sneak.

If I recall correctly, Square explained that it used to work differently, but they purposedly made it that way so avoid monsters around would be more challenging.

I suppose the fact any action removes invisible is a side-effect of that, or something. In any case, sneak only means you don't make noise when walking around. It's not a Silence spell, otherwise you couldn't cast spells when under the effect of sneak :P

I guess monsters are just dumb not to agro to a harp or music playing in their back. Then again, it's a magical melody sung by a bard! They should be enthralled by it, shouldn't they? ^_^
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#11 Feb 27 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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It's hard to sing while your silenced...

So then shouldn't it be other way around for dancers? =o

Need to be visible to dance but sneak wont wear? :D
#12 Feb 27 2009 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually if you cannot sing while silenced then you shouldnt be able to dance while bound right? ;p

Bind~ "Binds an enemy in place Immobilizing it"

IDK makes since to me :D
#13 Feb 28 2009 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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What's the logic >.>?
Why can I dance away my poison, but not my requiem <.>?

And I'm sure I've had a Dnc erase me in a party on brd befor... I must have been mistaken.
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#14 Feb 28 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Default
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I understand that it can't be done, I just fail to see the logic behind it. Healing Waltz description: Removes one magic induced ailment from a party member. Ok. So we know what that does. Now if you would take the time too reveiw our magic menu under songs. Yes songs are classified as magic. We would find Carnage Elegy and Battlefeild Elegy. Maybe you don't have both bard and dancer lved maybe you do. I don't know but last time I checked songs=magic.


So what exactly is the logic behind Waltz not being able to erase a magical song? Other than people nodding in agreeance I see no actual proof of logic. Therefore I can only assume it was just something neglected by SE.
#15 Feb 28 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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FloppyFish wrote:
I understand that it can't be done, I just fail to see the logic behind it. Healing Waltz description: Removes one magic induced ailment from a party member. Ok. So we know what that does. Now if you would take the time too reveiw our magic menu under songs. Yes songs are classified as magic. We would find Carnage Elegy and Battlefeild Elegy. Maybe you don't have both bard and dancer lved maybe you do. I don't know but last time I checked songs=magic.


So what exactly is the logic behind Waltz not being able to erase a magical song? Other than people nodding in agreeance I see no actual proof of logic. Therefore I can only assume it was just something neglected by SE.
That standard can't really be used, because SE was never unified in it's standard of magic in the first place. For instance:

Magic agro: Songs and Ninjutsu do not agro magic agro monsters. Therefore, it can be said they are not magic.
Colibri: Colibri mimics most magic, but does not mimic BLU magic, nor does it mimic the magic based bloodpacts of summons(like Blizzard IV), but will mimic a BLM's or SCH's Blizzard IV.

I'm sure there are other examples, but as you can see, SE never really was constant. They made different decisions based on what they thought would be good for balancing, not any strict rules. For whatever reason, they probably wanted WHM's ability to erase status effects to be stronger than DNCs, and decided songs were one of those effects. Same with Colibri mimicking, songs were probably added because elegy is strong and constantly used. Or maybe some other reason, who knows(besides the developers themselves) :P
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#16 Feb 28 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Default
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I'm pretty sure I've erased songs from Yagudo BRD's before in Campaign...
#17 Feb 28 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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You can't erase requiem either, not only elegy. Pretty sure you couldn't remove threnody either, but I haven't even attempted (let alone got the debuff).

Anyway, the "logic" is that dancers follow music when they dance. If you remember reading during your AF cutscenes, Laila explains how important it is to a dancer to dance to someone's music.

Now, why can a dance restore 600 HP, remove poison, paralysis, blindness... That's probably the same reason why a warrior swinging a sword can produce flames...

Edited, Feb 28th 2009 11:00pm by Lianda
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#18 Feb 28 2009 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Lianda wrote:
Now, why can a dance restore 600 HP, remove poison, paralysis, blindness... That's probably the same reason why a warrior swinging a sword can produce flames...


Or why an Elvaan who is winking and pointing at somebody like his hand is a gun (like creepy men hitting on women do) can suddenly avoid the next few hits.
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#19 Feb 28 2009 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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Lianda wrote:

Now, why can a dance restore 600 HP, remove poison, paralysis, blindness... That's probably the same reason why a warrior swinging a sword can produce flames...


I put this down to the dancer's ability to manipulate other peoples' emotions, and you can also look at dance as it's used in various religious rituals (for exorcisms, etc.). Dance is my thing, as it were...I study it and its purposes quite a bit. :D
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#20 Mar 01 2009 at 12:28 AM Rating: Default
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Like Souji said I'm just chalking it up to an inconsitancy with SE.
#21 Mar 11 2009 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Because BRD is overpowered.
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