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DNC AF Upgrade? Follow

#1 Feb 03 2009 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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Hey guys! Got unusually lucky in Limbus this week - got the Gold Stud on sunday and the Filet Lace today so I'm 2/2 for AF upgrade items. So in any case what peice do you guys think I should upgrade? I'm leaning towards the boots, but any advice or other ideas would be appreciated.
#2 Feb 03 2009 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Personally I'd go for the legs first, slight boost in CHR, slight boost in acc and +5 atk, you also get vit to help you with mistake in soloing (but eva stuff would be better)
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#3 Feb 03 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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My order is legs > Hands > Body > Head > Feet. Plan to do them all. None of the AF seems worth dropping to me.
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#4 Feb 04 2009 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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Legs seem like the best of the +1 to me.
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#5 Feb 04 2009 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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My plan is to upgrade legs first, then feet. That's all I plan on doing.
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#6 Feb 05 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Do gloves increase the step accuracy in the HQ version? I would hazard that it wouldn't, so really you're just getting 2 more to stats and 5 attack, which imo isn't really that amazing for the effort to upgrade it because you have better WS gloves like enkidu's or better TP gloves dusk, so that is essentially giving you 1 more acc on steps, better than nothing, but a whole lot of effort for +1 acc.

Body is similarly mediocre IMO. No real bonuses outside of 3 more str/dex, which almost anytime you're WS'ing (SH, enkidu, AJ) or TP'ing (SH, rap) you'll not be using it. Maybe I am missing a use, but you shouldn't be wearing AF outside of waltzing macro and then switch to a tp or ws piece. As far as I can see it is 100% white border.

Head gives you 4 more dex with the same duration bonus to samba (I think), so on easy peasy things you might see benefit, but anything where it would matter you would be using something else for WS (ohat, pahluwan) or TP (ohat, turban).

Feet look at least decent for soloing. The 5eva on them seems like they could justify using the nq at 75, so upgrading them for more agi and then that it also has attack and then more str is neat. It wouldn't be better than dusk or enkidu's for normal tp'ing, but it looks like a decent WS peice, maybe inferior to pahluwan depending on your acc, but at least the feet look like they would have some use.

Legs are decent all around. You can TP or WS in 5acc/atk, chr benefits your waltz. There are comparable pieces out there, cobra subs can inch ahead if damage is less important then enmity. Though AF2 or zbarbs are probably always better to TP.

IMO legs and feet could have use at 75, head and body are not worth the time, and gloves are slightly worth it.

Brutal will probably benefit you significantly more than any of those pieces though so IMO you're much better off getting those first and then legs > feet.
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#7 Feb 05 2009 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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My thinking is that since you macro them in, you're going to be swinging with them equipped occasionally. Not intentionally, mind you, but you can only blink so much gear so fast. I don't use windower and thusly can't have long macro scripts. So, I figure I might as well have a few +1 stats since I'm keeping all the gear anyway.

My rule for af is +1 it or drop it. Simple as that.
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#8 Feb 05 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigbangshot wrote:
My rule for af is +1 it or drop it. Simple as that.


Not exactly feasable for people with too many jobs. The extra stats here and there on a few swings are hard to justify when I have 8 sets of AF armor and can't afford to keep it all out of storage.

I'm pretty underwhelmed by DNC AF+1 in general, but I think a lot of that has to do with the relic set's awesomeness. The AF+1 legs would look a lot better if the relic legs didn't exist, but since they do, I can't see any real instance where I would want to use them over the relic. Adding 2 HP cured to my highest level curing waltz isn't enough of a boost to forego being able to store the set.

The only piece I'd upgrade is the feet for the evasion and other good stats, as that's the only piece I see on the list that isn't easily replaced by relic or dusk. It's kind of a minor upgrade as the normal AF feet work pretty much as well, but if I found myself with both limbus pieces sitting around that's the one I'd go for.
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#9 Feb 05 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I was surprised when I found out the stats for DNC Af+1 since we have such wonderful stats on relic and almost useless stats on af upgrades.

I'll have to agree with requim (somewhat) but I'm going to say that none of the pieces are really worth upgrading. Legs seem good for acc/att, but would rather have relic pants or the easier to get cobra unit subligar (I have both btw, just for argument's sake though). Feet are somewhat decent, but can be replaced by rutters, unless you absolutely have to have your evasion on them. The rest is really not worth looking at.

The only things that would make this set even worth looking at would be: 1. Increased waltz potency on body, 2. increased overall -enmity at least for waltz bombing, 3. Increased samba duration on head, 4. Increased step acc on gloves 5. Increased duration of jig on shoes (at least doubled like relic tights do). Surprisingly...SE gave us none of these things like they did on other AF upgrades (nothing along the lines of getting an extra shot from barrage like rng AF upgrade for example)





sorry for the semi rant XD


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#10 Feb 05 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Order:
1. Legs is for acc TP or TP before you got etoile tights. Also a good piece for DE
2.1. Feet is nice inventory saver if not many of your job use Rutter Sabatons. It's a hybrid piece for eva and WS gear.
2.2. Head is a nice DE gear. Arguably better than Etoile Tiara +1

Hands are just 1 extra accuracy for steps. I doubt the HQ version give enhanced accuracy for steps.
Body is meh for WS. Enkidu's Harness/Etoile Casaque(+1) is better


Edited, Feb 5th 2009 3:09pm by VZX
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#11 Feb 26 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Legs 1rst seems to me like a big miss if u do dynamis. I plan on geting the legs and i just got materialw to make a +1. My choice is with head or hands 1rst cause the other slots can be upgraded with other gear from ah/ rare/ex gear from ZNM or even afv2. i'll prob just do hands 1rst for mods on Mystic WS
#12 Feb 26 2009 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see why people want to upgrade the legs, they seem like a dud compared to the Etoile tights, or even Enkidu's Subligar if the store tp on it can increase you to the next tier.

Any piece of AF+1 can be overshadowed by AF2 or Enkidu in terms of tp gain. I decided to then turn AF+1 into WS gear, so basically my choice is between the head and body. The str and dex on the +1 body is awesome for Pyrrhic Kleos, but the dex and chr on the head is awesome for Dancing Edge. In my situation however, I was lucky enough to get the Etoile head, and I also have the Etoile head -1, I just need to upgrade it. So that's 5 str in the head slot, so I'm leaning toward getting the AF+1 body as of right now.
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#13 Feb 26 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Salodin wrote:
I don't see why people want to upgrade the legs, they seem like a dud compared to the Etoile tights,

Etoile tights still have lower damage overall compared to Dancer's tights+1 in term of WS damage.

Quote:
or even Enkidu's Subligar if the store tp on it can increase you to the next tier.

What tier are you talking about?
CHR+5 have 66% boost your DE base damage by 2, if not 1.
have 3 more acc than Enkidu's subligar
and 3 more atk than Enkidu's subligar
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#14 Feb 26 2009 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't see why people want to upgrade the legs, they seem like a dud compared to the Etoile tights, or even Enkidu's Subligar if the store tp on it can increase you to the next tier.

Because some people do limbus but not dynamis or ZNM?
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#15 Feb 26 2009 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Etoile tights still have lower damage overall compared to Dancer's tights+1 in term of WS damage.


In terms of TP gain, Etoile or Enkidu can pretty much beat it out as long as acc isn't an issue. In terms of WS, it depends on the WS.

And by tier I meant TP tier. Enkidu Subligar turns me from 10tp/hit to 11tp/hit. Since my acc is high enough, when you do the math I get more tp over time with that 1 extra tp/round then I would with that slight acc boost.

Quote:
What tier are you talking about?
CHR+5 have 66% boost your DE base damage by 2, if not 1.
have 3 more acc than Enkidu's subligar
and 3 more atk than Enkidu's subligar


You mean to tell me you'd rather have CHR+5 over STR and DEX +4? For Pyrrhic Kleos, that's backwards. And for Dancing Edge, its better sure, but only slightly; making you choose between a very slight bonus to DE, or larger bonuses from other pieces of AF upgrades. If you want to focus on WS damage, then the AF+1 tiara is the better way to go for dancing edge. The legs giving 3 more acc then Enkidu isn't going to be a huge difference to DE, and neither is 3 atk. So, like I said before, I'd go with a body or head upgrade.

Overall, upgrading the legs for a slight boost to DE is laughable when you compare the large boost the head or body does for both DE and Kleos respectively.

Quote:
Because some people do limbus but not dynamis or ZNM?


True, but the options are still there, and the OP didn't mention that he doesn't do ZNM or Dynamis, from what I've read. It's just a question on what to upgrade, and I gave my advice.
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#16 Feb 27 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Salodin wrote:
Quote:
Etoile tights still have lower damage overall compared to Dancer's tights+1 in term of WS damage.


In terms of TP gain, Etoile or Enkidu can pretty much beat it out as long as acc isn't an issue. In terms of WS, it depends on the WS.

And by tier I meant TP tier. Enkidu Subligar turns me from 10tp/hit to 11tp/hit. Since my acc is high enough, when you do the math I get more tp over time with that 1 extra tp/round then I would with that slight acc boost.

Gotta love when people trying to make new term for something that already has a name.
That is not tier. You get extra TP because the extra Store TP from Enkidu's Subligar, and that doesn't mean anything unless you want to do self-darkness, which is just an eye candy.

Quote:
Quote:
What tier are you talking about?
CHR+5 have 66% boost your DE base damage by 2, if not 1.
have 3 more acc than Enkidu's subligar
and 3 more atk than Enkidu's subligar


You mean to tell me you'd rather have CHR+5 over STR and DEX +4? For Pyrrhic Kleos, that's backwards. And for Dancing Edge, its better sure, but only slightly; making you choose between a very slight bonus to DE, or larger bonuses from other pieces of AF upgrades. If you want to focus on WS damage, then the AF+1 tiara is the better way to go for dancing edge. The legs giving 3 more acc then Enkidu isn't going to be a huge difference to DE, and neither is 3 atk. So, like I said before, I'd go with a body or head upgrade.

Head has even less minimal improvement the legs can do.
Other than max DE damage, Danc'ers Tights+1 also the best piece for self-curing and curing in general due to +5 CHR. It's a solid TP piece if you don't have Etoile Tights. No, Enkidu's Subligar is not better because of +5 sTP and +4 STR.

And as for Pyrrhic Kleos... you really use Pyrrhic Kleos for anything other than showing off? I know the damage is close to DE, but the potential is still lower than DE, due to DE has higher base damage.
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#17 Feb 27 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Gotta love when people trying to make new term for something that already has a name.
That is not tier. You get extra TP because the extra Store TP from Enkidu's Subligar, and that doesn't mean anything unless you want to do self-darkness, which is just an eye candy.


Right, because having extra tp for a step with out falling under 100tp is just eye candy. ****, faster tp gain over all is just eye candy unless you're doing self darkness right? /rolls eyes.

Quote:
Head has even less minimal improvement the legs can do.
Other than max DE damage, Danc'ers Tights+1 also the best piece for self-curing and curing in general due to +5 CHR. It's a solid TP piece if you don't have Etoile Tights. No, Enkidu's Subligar is not better because of +5 sTP and +4 STR.

And as for Pyrrhic Kleos... you really use Pyrrhic Kleos for anything other than showing off? I know the damage is close to DE, but the potential is still lower than DE, due to DE has higher base damage.


Head gains +4 to dex, which is beneficial to more WS then just the legs can do. And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures...lol. It's not +5 Chr, it's +2 Chr over what we have now. Yes, the +2 chr the +1 tights have over the normal tights totally justifies upgrading them first over all the other pieces... It boosts our cures by so much! /rolls eyes.

Yes, in many situations Enkidu's subligar is better for tp gain. My situation proves it. Why say no when I just showed you how it is better. Please, read and comprehend my post before bashing it.

And Kleos is better in a lot of situations. Definitely enough to warrent having gear that boosts your weapon skills universally rather then upgrading legs for DE only. The extra 2 acc is better, but just barely (+1% to acc? Yeah ok, gonna pass up for the other af for that right away). If that extra 2 acc makes or breaks you, then your gear has issues.

To the OP: If you want an honest opinion on what to upgrade, then read the last few posts. Do you want to upgrade the legs for tp gain or cures (lol+2chr for cures...) given your situation? Do you have a shot at Etoile? Enkidu? If so, evaluate what will benefit you most. As for upgrading the legs, do you want to spend the time and effort into getting the upgrade items on such a boost? I'm just pointing out, before you make your decision, that the pants are probably not the best way for you to go.

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Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#18 Feb 27 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Default
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Salodin wrote:
Quote:
Gotta love when people trying to make new term for something that already has a name.
That is not tier. You get extra TP because the extra Store TP from Enkidu's Subligar, and that doesn't mean anything unless you want to do self-darkness, which is just an eye candy.


Right, because having extra tp for a step with out falling under 100tp is just eye candy. ****, faster tp gain over all is just eye candy unless you're doing self darkness right? /rolls eyes.

Mention a situation where self-darkness is something practical AND beneficial.

Quote:
Head gains +4 to dex, which is beneficial to more WS then just the legs can do. And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures...lol. It's not +5 Chr, it's +2 Chr over what we have now. Yes, the +2 chr the +1 tights have over the normal tights totally justifies upgrading them first over all the other pieces... It boosts our cures by so much! /rolls eyes.

For self-curing, you have another 5 VIT. and it doesn't make my statement any less right. It's still THE best piece for curing.

Quote:
Yes, in many situations Enkidu's subligar is better for tp gain. My situation proves it. Why say no when I just showed you how it is better. Please, read and comprehend my post before bashing it.

What situation again?
The situation where you want to use Pyrrhic instead of DE? then see my post below.

Quote:
And Kleos is better in a lot of situations. Definitely enough to warrent having gear that boosts your weapon skills universally rather then upgrading legs for DE only.

The argument is, if you want WS, you do it for damage. And if you do it for damage, DE is the best choice of the 3 last WS.

Quote:
The extra 2 acc is better, but just barely (+1% to acc? Yeah ok, gonna pass up for the other af for that right away).

3 accuracy and 3 attack against Enkidu's Subligar. and extra 5 accuracy and 5 attack against NQ Dancer's Tight. It's a big upgrade compared to the other AF->AF+1 upgrade.

Quote:
If that extra 2 acc makes or breaks you, then your gear has issues.

Why you bother upgrade any of your gear then?
Any gear upgrade in this game you can argue it with that beard argument.
"Meh, it's just a small improvement, what does <insert minimal stat increase here> mean to you?"
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#19 Feb 27 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Sigh, so this turns into a play style argument.

Quote:
Mention a situation where self-darkness is something practical AND beneficial.


Like I said, please read and comprehend my statements before you comment. I never said using self darkness is the way to go, I laughed at the notion that some how faster tp gain is not something to strive for, something that enkidu and etoile have over AF+1, if acc is not an issue which it usually is not. Some how you have this idea that faster tp gain through the use of other gear is only wanted for self darkness...

Quote:
For self-curing, you have another 5 VIT. and it doesn't make my statement any less right. It's still THE best piece for curing.


Yes, which is why I laughed when we are toying with the idea of spending time and effort to upgrade a piece of gear that slightly boosts curing. Curing that can be done just fine with out the upgraded pants.

Sure, they are the best pants for curing, but that's why I said "And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures". Guess I didn't stop you though.

Quote:
What situation again?
The situation where you want to use Pyrrhic instead of DE? then see my post below.


I refer to where I said "Please read and comprehend my statements before you bash them". I never said it's only good for PK, I said it's good for tp gain compared to the tights, if acc is not an issue. I suppose I can keep mentioning this...but it's getting old very fast.

Quote:
3 accuracy and 3 attack against Enkidu's Subligar. and extra 5 accuracy and 5 attack against NQ Dancer's Tight. It's a big upgrade compared to the other AF->AF+1 upgrade.


It's 2 extra accuracy over the NQ tights since the NQ tights come with 3 accuracy already. Please tell me you noticed that. Also, I only bring up Enkidu because it allows certain gear sets to go from making 10tp/round to 11 (read: my gear set), more then making up for the extra 3 accuracy from +1 tights in the vast majority of situations.

I'll make this simple. For DE damage, the pants can't be beat. They are slightly better, I conceit that =P. But for tp gain, etoile or enkidu is still better as long as acc isn't something laughable like 50%.

Math wise? Let's say acc was something like 60% (lol...) with Enkidu's subligar. With my setup (which isn't anything special by far), I get 11tp/hit. Over 100 attack rounds, thats 660tp.

Let's compare this to +1 tights, they have 3 acc over enkidu which means about 1.5% acc. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and round up. at 62% acc, with 10tp/hit, that's 620tp. Obviously, you know which one is better.

The difference between then even grows the higher your acc is! At 85% acc with Enkidu, your tp gain over 100 rounds is 935, and with +1 tights it's 870. The difference is slight, but there. Obviously the better tp piece is proven. And yet, even if you had Enkidu or AF+1 tights, Etoile still beats them, so why even bother focusing on such a lame piece of AF+1? Spend your time and effort and get something that isn't so easily phased out and benefits more then just 1 WS.

EDIT: Omg...I was just reminded about the Cobra set. It has the same exact accuracy?! So really, you are upgrading it for just the slight bonus to cures and DE damage. Nice........

Edited, Feb 27th 2009 6:32pm by Salodin
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Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#20 Feb 27 2009 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Salodin wrote:
Sigh, so this turns into a play style argument.

Quote:
Mention a situation where self-darkness is something practical AND beneficial.


Like I said, please read and comprehend my statements before you comment. I never said using self darkness is the way to go, I laughed at the notion that some how faster tp gain is not something to strive for, something that enkidu and etoile have over AF+1, if acc is not an issue which it usually is not. Some how you have this idea that faster tp gain through the use of other gear is only wanted for self darkness...

I can understand Etoils is a better TP piece than Dancer's Tights+1 but not Enkidu. The only thing that Enkidu can do better than Tights+1/Etoile is giving 15 TP return from Evisceration instead of 14. So you can do 5FM RF for 75 TP and another 2 connected hit in a round for reaching 100TP Pyrrhic.
Other than that, I don't see any usage of it. Hence I mentioned self-darkness and I said it clearly it's an eye candy because it's basically impractical.

Quote:
Quote:
For self-curing, you have another 5 VIT. and it doesn't make my statement any less right. It's still THE best piece for curing.


Yes, which is why I laughed when we are toying with the idea of spending time and effort to upgrade a piece of gear that slightly boosts curing. Curing that can be done just fine with out the upgraded pants.

Please laugh at the fact we are also debating minimal thing of Enkidu's Subligar vs Dancer's tights+1.
Dancer's Tights+1 offer you 1 slot for : TP gain, best DE piece, curing, and self-curing.
Enkidu's subligar offer you 1 slot for : TP gain, all round WS piece, and that's it.
Dancer's tights+1 offer more than Enkidu could.
If you have Etoile tights, then your Enkidu's subligar is only good for WS usage.

Quote:
Sure, they are the best pants for curing, but that's why I said "And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures". Guess I didn't stop you though.

Reason for stopping me? because "well, you're right, but I don't wanna argue with that, let's look at that 4DEX 4STR and 5 STP there"

Quote:
Quote:
What situation again?
The situation where you want to use Pyrrhic instead of DE? then see my post below.

I refer to where I said "Please read and comprehend my statements before you bash them". I never said it's only good for PK, I said it's good for tp gain compared to the tights, if acc is not an issue. I suppose I can keep mentioning this...but it's getting old very fast.

And you didn't see I'm saying repeatedly it's not better than Dancer's tights+1?

Oh by the way, I searched for "please read and comprehend my statements..." phrase in this page, and the only match is the first quote I made above.


Quote:
Quote:
3 accuracy and 3 attack against Enkidu's Subligar. and extra 5 accuracy and 5 attack against NQ Dancer's Tight. It's a big upgrade compared to the other AF->AF+1 upgrade.


It's 2 extra accuracy over the NQ tights since the NQ tights come with 3 accuracy already. Please tell me you noticed that. Also, I only bring up Enkidu because it allows certain gear sets to go from making 10tp/round to 11 (read: my gear set), more then making up for the extra 3 accuracy from +1 tights in the vast majority of situations.

Yes, I noticed that. You can state the difference as minimal as you want from your point of view, but they are there.

Quote:
I'll make this simple. For DE damage, the pants can't be beat. They are slightly better, I conceit that =P. But for tp gain, etoile or enkidu is still better as long as acc isn't something laughable like 50%.

Here we go again... you can put any difference x accuracy x attack to a word : slightly, yet you keep mentioning the boost from 11 TP/hit to 10 TP/hit as if it's not something slightly

Quote:
Math wise? Let's say acc was something like 60% (lol...) with Enkidu's subligar. With my setup (which isn't anything special by far), I get 11tp/hit. Over 100 attack rounds, thats 660tp.

Let's compare this to +1 tights, they have 3 acc over enkidu which means about 1.5% acc. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and round up. at 62% acc, with 10tp/hit, that's 620tp. Obviously, you know which one is better.

uhhh.. 100 attack rounds is like.. 5 minutes of swinging your weapons at super haste speed and not doing any JA at all. and all you got is the... theoretical 40 TP? that's laughable. You got hit, you double attack... oh wait,
you realize Store TP is basically not DW-er thing? nope, I don't see it you got this. Furthermore, if you really praise the STP that much, you probably gonna against the usage of suppanomimi in your TP gain setup because it reduces the TP gained per hit landed.

Quote:
The difference between then even grows the higher your acc is! At 85% acc with Enkidu, your tp gain over 100 rounds is 935, and with +1 tights it's 870. The difference is slight, but there. Obviously the better tp piece is proven. And yet, even if you had Enkidu or AF+1 tights, Etoile still beats them, so why even bother focusing on such a lame piece of AF+1? Spend your time and effort and get something that isn't so easily phased out and benefits more then just 1 WS.

Yeah, because Enkidu can boost your other 2 WS that do less damage than DE is making Dancer's tights+1 lame. Perfect analysis.

Oh before you call me a butthurtfag that doesn't have the stuff and trying to do analysis so I can sway people from seeing Enkidu's subligar as a better choice: I have 3 of them, and Enkidu's subligar is totally put for my BLU multi-hit spellcasting only.
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#21 Feb 27 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I only bring up Enkidu because it allows certain gear sets to go from making 10tp/round to 11

You know that with +5 Store TP, the best it does is take you from 10.5 to 11.0 TP, right? And there's no real reason to strive for 11.0 TP per round (over say, 10.9, which is perfectly fine for a dancer to get?) VZX is laughing at the idea of "Next TP tier", because it sounds like you're trying to create some kind of build around having to hit one fewer round before you can create something. (like, for example, solo darkness)

Since dancers can use TP at any amount (instead of only 100+) and only consume specific amount of TP (-20, -35, -50, -65, etc.) the point of having a "N hit build" or "TP tiers" is really out of the window. (Unless you're trying to pimp out your WSing/DDing)

Store TP can be great for (healing) dancers, but I'm wondering how much 5% extra TP compares to 1.5% hit rate (extra 3 accuracy from dancer's tights+1 vs Enkidu's).

From napkin math, the TP gain from AF+1 doesn't match Enkidu store TP (In that case) until accuracy is really low, but the damage dealt from melee hits with the accuracy gear is higher. Now, choosing to improve your damage at the cost of TP, or TP at the cost of damage is up to playstyle, and that's something I respect perfectly.

The bottom line, in my case, is that I wouldn't want to be caught dead wearing Enkidu's subligar, while I don't mind AF(+1) legs. That solves the problem at the root, although in a very non-optimal fashion :P
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#22 Feb 27 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Mention a situation where self-darkness is something practical AND beneficial.


I use it all the time while doing ODS to solo scorps quickly

pop I wing > NFR > 1 step > solo darkness for about 2500 total damage (used yellow curry and had minuet) > pop fan dance and quickly melee the scorp down.


Other than this...yeah, don't really need to do self darkness unless its to show off XD
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#23 Feb 27 2009 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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Lianda wrote:
Store TP can be great for (healing) dancers, but I'm wondering how much 5% extra TP compares to 1.5% hit rate (extra 3 accuracy from dancer's tights+1 vs Enkidu's).


I did the math in my last post. It's better, if ever so slightly, but apparently that's what we're reduced to talking about now. Which one is slightly better.

VZX wrote:
Furthermore, if you really praise the STP that much, you probably gonna against the usage of suppanomimi in your TP gain setup because it reduces the TP gained per hit landed.


Unless of course I'm getting this tp in my math while already using Suppanomimi? And even though it reduced tp/hit because of how DW works, it makes up for it in attack rounds.

To VZX, I'm not arguing that the pants suck, I'm just stating that they aren't exactly the best piece to be trying to upgrade first. When compared to other gear, it is nothing more then a WS piece, and there are plenty of other AF+1 pieces that are better for overall WS damage.
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Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#24 Feb 27 2009 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
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Kalisa wrote:
Quote:
Mention a situation where self-darkness is something practical AND beneficial.


I use it all the time while doing ODS to solo scorps quickly

pop I wing > NFR > 1 step > solo darkness for about 2500 total damage (used yellow curry and had minuet) > pop fan dance and quickly melee the scorp down.


Other than this...yeah, don't really need to do self darkness unless its to show off XD

Remember the context there is having 15TP after fully landed 5-hit Evisceration so that after you can RF with 5FM and gain 75 TP and requires only 2 landed hits (basically 1 round) to unleash Pyrrhic Kleos.
That is not practical.

Icarus wing is completely different story.

Salodin wrote:
To VZX, I'm not arguing that the pants suck, I'm just stating that they aren't exactly the best piece to be trying to upgrade first.

Yes, they are, Pyrrhic Kleos fan.
Quote:
When compared to other gear, it is nothing more then a WS piece, and there are plenty of other AF+1 pieces that are better for overall WS damage.

Let me say it again: it's a solid TP gain piece (I think this is the 3rd time I repeated this) before Etoile tights, best piece for our best WS, best piece for curing and self-curing.

In b4 your lolswapchrforcuring.
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#25 Feb 28 2009 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In b4 your lolswapchrforcuring.


So then don't tout the pants as a curing piece =P.

It is a solid tp piece, but not the best. So why upgrade for a piece that is going to become inv-1 in the future? You wouldn't, so you would keep it arond for WS.

But then it's not all that much of an upgrade for a WS piece. 5Chr is a good piece for DE only, but you need to compare the added bonuses, not just end result. And th eextra 2 Chr in comparison to the +1 head and +1 body? All of a sudden the 2 Chr boost in the pants aren't as great in comparison. In the end, they are the same, only not because the other pieces affect more then just one WS.
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Bsphil wrote:
Rana does his own sh*t. He's edgy and 3-hitty. He'll walk up to merit mobs and go, so what I don't have an attack bonus, I'm @#%^ing rana. I'm a black hole of awesome, absorbing all dimensions of win from all around me. That's right I @#%^ing open darkness for your gekko. Without me you'd be a @#%^ing nobody. You'd be blowing PUPs for party invites. Rana is the alpha and the omega, if by alpha and omega, you mean the first and third hits of rana.
#26 Feb 28 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Salodin wrote:
Quote:
In b4 your lolswapchrforcuring.


So then don't tout the pants as a curing piece =P.

It is a solid tp piece, but not the best. So why upgrade for a piece that is going to become inv-1 in the future? You wouldn't, so you would keep it arond for WS.

for WS and curing.. duh. Are you really that dense? How many times I've said this?

Quote:
But then it's not all that much of an upgrade for a WS piece. 5Chr is a good piece for DE only, but you need to compare the added bonuses, not just end result. And th eextra 2 Chr in comparison to the +1 head and +1 body? All of a sudden the 2 Chr boost in the pants aren't as great in comparison. In the end, they are the same, only not because the other pieces affect more then just one WS.

Uhh... there's a 5 attack and 2 extra accuracy from NQ there. Please say you notice that.
Oh right, you're just gonna say they are better by slightly. Nvm, discussion end there.

Edited, Feb 28th 2009 11:42am by VZX
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#27 Feb 28 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Funny how people are so fast to disregard acc and atk as being important for a WS, doesn't it **** of anyone when you get a crappy damage and notice your WS was 2 tp short of full TP return??
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#28 Mar 02 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Default
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Ugg reading this thread made my head hurt. If you truly want to be great at your job and not just another run of the mill <Insert random job here> then you will take the time to get the best gear, even if it only benefits one action. I upgraded the tights first and use them in my Dancing Edge and Curing sets. The feet will be the next piece I upgrade. I plan on using those in my Pyrrhic Kleos and Evasion sets.

I'm currently working on getting a pair of Enkidu's Mittens for Dancing Edge, and then I'll work on getting Enkidu's Subligar for Pyrrhic Kleos.
#29 Apr 06 2009 at 11:10 AM Rating: Default
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I hav enkidu set and denali and p.gear so theres no real importance of wich piece i do 1rst. but i did do the hands already bout a month ago and now just got my af+1 body. idk if its gonna be much of an improvement over enkidu but its gonna be nice to see. will prob do head next then feet then legs since i hav relic feet/legs so far. the materials drop pretty often so i feel like i can hav 5/5 +1 set eventually sooner than i thought. I did hands forst cause of the lack of choices for hands unless u wanna wear dusk gloves/or enkidu mittens. figure on harder mobs havin the 1 with step acc will help me more. gluck
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