DNC AF Upgrade? Follow

Hey guys! Got unusually lucky in Limbus this week - got the Gold Stud on sunday and the Filet Lace today so I'm 2/2 for AF upgrade items. So in any case what peice do you guys think I should upgrade? I'm leaning towards the boots, but any advice or other ideas would be appreciated.

My order is legs > Hands > Body > Head > Feet. Plan to do them all. None of the AF seems worth dropping to me.

My plan is to upgrade legs first, then feet. That's all I plan on doing.

My thinking is that since you macro them in, you're going to be swinging with them equipped occasionally. Not intentionally, mind you, but you can only blink so much gear so fast. I don't use windower and thusly can't have long macro scripts. So, I figure I might as well have a few +1 stats since I'm keeping all the gear anyway.

My rule for af is +1 it or drop it. Simple as that.

Yeah I was surprised when I found out the stats for DNC Af+1 since we have such wonderful stats on relic and almost useless stats on af upgrades.

I'll have to agree with requim (somewhat) but I'm going to say that none of the pieces are really worth upgrading. Legs seem good for acc/att, but would rather have relic pants or the easier to get cobra unit subligar (I have both btw, just for argument's sake though). Feet are somewhat decent, but can be replaced by rutters, unless you absolutely have to have your evasion on them. The rest is really not worth looking at.

The only things that would make this set even worth looking at would be: 1. Increased waltz potency on body, 2. increased overall -enmity at least for waltz bombing, 3. Increased samba duration on head, 4. Increased step acc on gloves 5. Increased duration of jig on shoes (at least doubled like relic tights do). Surprisingly...SE gave us none of these things like they did on other AF upgrades (nothing along the lines of getting an extra shot from barrage like rng AF upgrade for example)





sorry for the semi rant XD

Legs 1rst seems to me like a big miss if u do dynamis. I plan on geting the legs and i just got materialw to make a +1. My choice is with head or hands 1rst cause the other slots can be upgraded with other gear from ah/ rare/ex gear from ZNM or even afv2. i'll prob just do hands 1rst for mods on Mystic WS

Etoile tights still have lower damage overall compared to Dancer's tights+1 in term of WS damage.


What tier are you talking about?
CHR+5 have 66% boost your DE base damage by 2, if not 1.
have 3 more acc than Enkidu's subligar
and 3 more atk than Enkidu's subligar

In terms of TP gain, Etoile or Enkidu can pretty much beat it out as long as acc isn't an issue. In terms of WS, it depends on the WS.

And by tier I meant TP tier. Enkidu Subligar turns me from 10tp/hit to 11tp/hit. Since my acc is high enough, when you do the math I get more tp over time with that 1 extra tp/round then I would with that slight acc boost.



You mean to tell me you'd rather have CHR+5 over STR and DEX +4? For Pyrrhic Kleos, that's backwards. And for Dancing Edge, its better sure, but only slightly; making you choose between a very slight bonus to DE, or larger bonuses from other pieces of AF upgrades. If you want to focus on WS damage, then the AF+1 tiara is the better way to go for dancing edge. The legs giving 3 more acc then Enkidu isn't going to be a huge difference to DE, and neither is 3 atk. So, like I said before, I'd go with a body or head upgrade.

Overall, upgrading the legs for a slight boost to DE is laughable when you compare the large boost the head or body does for both DE and Kleos respectively.



True, but the options are still there, and the OP didn't mention that he doesn't do ZNM or Dynamis, from what I've read. It's just a question on what to upgrade, and I gave my advice.

Right, because having extra tp for a step with out falling under 100tp is just eye candy. Hell, faster tp gain over all is just eye candy unless you're doing self darkness right? /rolls eyes.



Head gains +4 to dex, which is beneficial to more WS then just the legs can do. And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures...lol. It's not +5 Chr, it's +2 Chr over what we have now. Yes, the +2 chr the +1 tights have over the normal tights totally justifies upgrading them first over all the other pieces... It boosts our cures by so much! /rolls eyes.

Yes, in many situations Enkidu's subligar is better for tp gain. My situation proves it. Why say no when I just showed you how it is better. Please, read and comprehend my post before bashing it.

And Kleos is better in a lot of situations. Definitely enough to warrent having gear that boosts your weapon skills universally rather then upgrading legs for DE only. The extra 2 acc is better, but just barely (+1% to acc? Yeah ok, gonna pass up for the other af for that right away). If that extra 2 acc makes or breaks you, then your gear has issues.

To the OP: If you want an honest opinion on what to upgrade, then read the last few posts. Do you want to upgrade the legs for tp gain or cures (lol+2chr for cures...) given your situation? Do you have a shot at Etoile? Enkidu? If so, evaluate what will benefit you most. As for upgrading the legs, do you want to spend the time and effort into getting the upgrade items on such a boost? I'm just pointing out, before you make your decision, that the pants are probably not the best way for you to go.

Sigh, so this turns into a play style argument.



Like I said, please read and comprehend my statements before you comment. I never said using self darkness is the way to go, I laughed at the notion that some how faster tp gain is not something to strive for, something that enkidu and etoile have over AF+1, if acc is not an issue which it usually is not. Some how you have this idea that faster tp gain through the use of other gear is only wanted for self darkness...



Yes, which is why I laughed when we are toying with the idea of spending time and effort to upgrade a piece of gear that slightly boosts curing. Curing that can be done just fine with out the upgraded pants.

Sure, they are the best pants for curing, but that's why I said "And I'm just gonna stop you now before you go on a pointless rant on how we should be gearing ourselves for +chr for our cures". Guess I didn't stop you though.



I refer to where I said "Please read and comprehend my statements before you bash them". I never said it's only good for PK, I said it's good for tp gain compared to the tights, if acc is not an issue. I suppose I can keep mentioning this...but it's getting old very fast.



It's 2 extra accuracy over the NQ tights since the NQ tights come with 3 accuracy already. Please tell me you noticed that. Also, I only bring up Enkidu because it allows certain gear sets to go from making 10tp/round to 11 (read: my gear set), more then making up for the extra 3 accuracy from +1 tights in the vast majority of situations.

I'll make this simple. For DE damage, the pants can't be beat. They are slightly better, I conceit that =P. But for tp gain, etoile or enkidu is still better as long as acc isn't something laughable like 50%.

Math wise? Let's say acc was something like 60% (lol...) with Enkidu's subligar. With my setup (which isn't anything special by far), I get 11tp/hit. Over 100 attack rounds, thats 660tp.

Let's compare this to +1 tights, they have 3 acc over enkidu which means about 1.5% acc. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and round up. at 62% acc, with 10tp/hit, that's 620tp. Obviously, you know which one is better.

The difference between then even grows the higher your acc is! At 85% acc with Enkidu, your tp gain over 100 rounds is 935, and with +1 tights it's 870. The difference is slight, but there. Obviously the better tp piece is proven. And yet, even if you had Enkidu or AF+1 tights, Etoile still beats them, so why even bother focusing on such a lame piece of AF+1? Spend your time and effort and get something that isn't so easily phased out and benefits more then just 1 WS.

EDIT: Omg...I was just reminded about the Cobra set. It has the same exact accuracy?! So really, you are upgrading it for just the slight bonus to cures and DE damage. Nice........

Edited, Feb 27th 2009 6:32pm by Salodin

You know that with +5 Store TP, the best it does is take you from 10.5 to 11.0 TP, right? And there's no real reason to strive for 11.0 TP per round (over say, 10.9, which is perfectly fine for a dancer to get?) VZX is laughing at the idea of "Next TP tier", because it sounds like you're trying to create some kind of build around having to hit one fewer round before you can create something. (like, for example, solo darkness)

Since dancers can use TP at any amount (instead of only 100+) and only consume specific amount of TP (-20, -35, -50, -65, etc.) the point of having a "N hit build" or "TP tiers" is really out of the window. (Unless you're trying to pimp out your WSing/DDing)

Store TP can be great for (healing) dancers, but I'm wondering how much 5% extra TP compares to 1.5% hit rate (extra 3 accuracy from dancer's tights+1 vs Enkidu's).

From napkin math, the TP gain from AF+1 doesn't match Enkidu store TP (In that case) until accuracy is really low, but the damage dealt from melee hits with the accuracy gear is higher. Now, choosing to improve your damage at the cost of TP, or TP at the cost of damage is up to playstyle, and that's something I respect perfectly.

The bottom line, in my case, is that I wouldn't want to be caught dead wearing Enkidu's subligar, while I don't mind AF(+1) legs. That solves the problem at the root, although in a very non-optimal fashion :P

I did the math in my last post. It's better, if ever so slightly, but apparently that's what we're reduced to talking about now. Which one is slightly better.



Unless of course I'm getting this tp in my math while already using Suppanomimi? And even though it reduced tp/hit because of how DW works, it makes up for it in attack rounds.

To VZX, I'm not arguing that the pants suck, I'm just stating that they aren't exactly the best piece to be trying to upgrade first. When compared to other gear, it is nothing more then a WS piece, and there are plenty of other AF+1 pieces that are better for overall WS damage.

So then don't tout the pants as a curing piece =P.

It is a solid tp piece, but not the best. So why upgrade for a piece that is going to become inv-1 in the future? You wouldn't, so you would keep it arond for WS.

But then it's not all that much of an upgrade for a WS piece. 5Chr is a good piece for DE only, but you need to compare the added bonuses, not just end result. And th eextra 2 Chr in comparison to the +1 head and +1 body? All of a sudden the 2 Chr boost in the pants aren't as great in comparison. In the end, they are the same, only not because the other pieces affect more then just one WS.

Funny how people are so fast to disregard acc and atk as being important for a WS, doesn't it piss of anyone when you get a crappy damage and notice your WS was 2 tp short of full TP return??

I hav enkidu set and denali and p.gear so theres no real importance of wich piece i do 1rst. but i did do the hands already bout a month ago and now just got my af+1 body. idk if its gonna be much of an improvement over enkidu but its gonna be nice to see. will prob do head next then feet then legs since i hav relic feet/legs so far. the materials drop pretty often so i feel like i can hav 5/5 +1 set eventually sooner than i thought. I did hands forst cause of the lack of choices for hands unless u wanna wear dusk gloves/or enkidu mittens. figure on harder mobs havin the 1 with step acc will help me more. gluck