Dancer as a Tank - Amazing ResultsFollow

If you are above level 20, dagger. If your tanking something at 75 that has terrible evasion, joytoy could also work offhand for tp.

I've been working on a Dancer tank setup specifically built for end game for a little while now. From the very beginning I thought of the job as being a viable tank and never aimed to follow a typical or damage dealing Dancer route. I started down this path before I even unlocked the Dancer job, when I first read about Fan Dance and was intrigued by the prospect of a Dancer tank. It was then that I began stepping and jigging my way to 75.

I'm still in the process of testing my build out and things could still change. However, I have already been getting some positive feedback from those who have seen it in action. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to test it out on HNMs, but in the future I hope to have a shot at it.



[ Merits ]
< Combat Merits >
• Dagger <8>
• Evasion <4>
• Parry <4> (Capped Parry Skill!)

< Other >
• Critical Hit Rate <4>
• Enmity Up <4> (Planned if Dancer tank is viable in end game situations; not Implemented yet)

< Dancer >
• Steps Accuracy <5>
- Reasoning : One of my main goals as a tank in general is to not blink in and out of gear while tanking. Doing so in a tanking situation can hinder my support from targeting me with spells and effects in a timely manner. As such, I chose not to swap in the Dancer hands(AF1) or feet(AF2) to help me land my Steps. So I need all the accuracy I can from any other source I can to help me land my Steps on HNM tier mobs.

• Reverse Flourish <5>
- Reasoning : I feel that I need to grab at any 'free' TP generation that I can. Since I will have Fan Dance up at all times, putting merits into Haste Samba will be of no use in this setup. Building Flourish is also not desirable.

• Fan Dance <1>
- Reasoning : This ability is the corner stone in this setup and without it, much of what I am attempting to do would not work very well or at all.

• No Foot Rise <5>
- Reasoning : The same as Reverse Flourish. I want the most amount of TP back from 'free' maneuvers as possible. I have read that many Dancers only put three upgrades into this ability, but I really felt that I would need grasp at every single TP I could for this setup to work well.

• Closed Position <4>
- Reasoning : Originally I had dismissed this trait entirely, as I didn't feel that the added Evasion would be of much use in an HNM situation. However, I soon realized that the added Accuracy would be essential to helping me to land Steps without swapping in other gear.



[ Gear - Standing Set ]
- Explanation : Since Dancer lacks a lot of hate tools, I decided to custom sculpt a tank setup that when paired with Fan Dance would magnify the hate tools it does have available. This is what I have come up with so far.

- Totals : HP[1,329] Enmity[+41 (with Fan Dance) ] Attack[337] Defense[313]
- Image : http://www.moofah.com/temp/media/images/jpeg/ffxi/dnc-tank.jpg

< Main Hand >
• Azoth

< Sub Hand >
• Dakini (DEX+4 Accuracy+8)

< Ammunition >
• Aumoniere

< Head >
• Anwig Salade [AGI+2 Haste+2 Enmity+4 Magic Dam. Taken -2]

< Neck >
• Ritter Gorget

< Left Ear >
• Cassie Earring

< Right Ear >
• Eris' Earring +1 [Augmented: HP+6 MP-6 STR+1]

< Body >
• Avalon Breastplate

< Hands >
• Dusk Gloves

< Left Ring >
• Bloodbead Ring
• Bomb Queen Ring (Swapped in to Bloodbead Ring slot on occasion)

< Right Ring >
• Mermaid's Ring

< Back >
• Cerberus Mantle

< Waist >
• Warwolf Belt [Augmented: HP+14 MP-14] (Planned to replace once I get a Warwolf Belt augmented with Haste)

< Legs >
• Desultor Tassets [Haste+3 Enmity+4 HP+25]

< Feet >
• Dusk Ledelsens


[ Gear - Utsusemi Swap ]
< Left Ear >
• Loquacious Earring

< Waist >
• Swift Belt


[ Gear - Step Swap ]
< Right Ear >
• Choreia Earring


[ Gear - Cure Cheat Code ]
- Explanation : Very simply, you are removing HP from yourself and then adding it back on again before curing yourself. You gain back the HP that you lost and the enmity that goes along with healing that amount of HP. This method of gaining hate is a critical component to Dancer tanking.

< Curing Waltz II >
< Left Ring >
• Serket Ring [Primary Swap]
• Bloodbead Ring [Secondary Swap]

< Neck >
• Ritter Gorget [Remove then Re-equip]

< Left Ear >
• Cassie Earring [Remove then Re-equip]


< Curing Waltz III >
< Left Ring >
• Serket Ring [Primary Swap]
• Bomb Queen Ring [Secondary Swap]

< Right Ring >
• Ether Ring [Primary Swap]
• Mermaid's Ring [Secondary Swap]

< Neck >
• Morgana's Choker [Primary Swap]
• Ritter Gorget [Secondary Swap]

< Left Ear >
• Astral Earring [Primary Swap]
• Cassie Earring [Secondary Swap]

< Waist >
• Scouter's Rope [Primary Swap]
• Warwolf Belt [Secondary Swap]

< Back >
• Lynx Mantle [Primary Swap]
• Cerberus Mantle [Secondary Swap]


[ Job Abilities and Spells ]
• Spectral Jig
- Reasoning : It generates the same amount of hate as using a Ninjutsu debuff. It's free and it's every 30 seconds. Spam it, love it. Chocobo Jig has the same amount of hate tied to it, but its recast is one minute and therefore not as desirable.

• Animated Flourish
- Reasoning : Simple and straight forward enmity generation. Unfortunately, using this eats up Steps and slows your overall TP generation down. I find that I only use this in the beginning of fights or when I need an immediate spike of enmity.

• Curing Waltz II, III and Divine Waltz
- Reasoning : This is a Dancer tanks' bread and butter. The bulk of your enmity generation will come from how much you cure yourself or others. A Dancer tank pretty much must take advantage of 'cure cheat codes' in order to be successful. If you can use Divine Waltz when many other party members are missing HP, you can pull in a huge amount of hate; use whenever possible.

• Ninjutsu Debuffs (Hojo, Kurayami, Jubaku)
- Reasoning : Dancer has very few hate tools of its own to use, so you will have to dip into your Ninja subjob for a few. They are slow to use but they are a critical component for a Dancer tank as they add enmity that does not decay easily over time. Use when you lose hate to another tank or when the mob is casting a long spell, or just whenever you can fit them in and other abilities are down. The Dancer tank mantra is "always be doing something".

• Ninjutsu Buffs (Monomi)
- Reasoning : Believe it or not, this spell offers as much enmity as a Ninjutsu Debuff spell. Spam it, love it. No, Tonko does not work as a hate tool, do not use it.



[ Food ]
These are a few that I have been using. The list will probably lengthen once I try more foods out.

• Marinara Pizza (HP, Accuracy and Attack)
• Dorado Sushi (Enmity+ is grand, Accuracy is nice)
• Tavnazian Taco / Salad (If you have Bard support for Accuracy and Attack, this food is great)



[ Place in the Alliance ]
Originally I had planned to be where all the other tanks would be ... in the 'tank party'. However, a Dancer tank has little need for some of the buffs that a Paladin needs to be effective. Therefore, I have recently been experimenting with the idea that the Dancer tank would be better off mingling in with the 'melee party', if there is one. In this way, the Dancer would be receiving spells, rolls and/or songs that would help out greatly with what he/she is trying to accomplish. Hit, deal a little bit of damage, get TP in a swift fashion and ultimately hold hate.

At the moment, this is just a thought and I have yet to actually try it out. But seeing as how a single Divine Waltz that covers four melee (including the Dancer) would garner a lot of hate, I think this idea would be definitely worth using.



[ Tanking Attempts ]
< Hakutaku >
- This fight was done in a pick-up alliance which was headed up by a few people that I knew. Although not particularly 'endgame', this NM is can be very troublesome to tank. Make sure that you time your abilities so that they activate directly after a TP move as long as you are not Paralyzed. If Hakutaku paralyzes your Fan Dance this NM becomes extremely dangerous because of how hard and fast he can hit you. He is also evasive but if you have Closed Position and/or Dagger merits along with sushi your hit rate should be just fine.

Because this NM does not have a huge amount of defense, a melee will be able to pull off big numbers on their weapon skills. So if you have one or more strong melee that are not using the Thief subjob to plant their hate, you cannot let down your guard at all. During the nine fights that I tanked, one Samurai continued to go all out and eventually pulled hate because of it, sometimes dying. I could regain hate after he took a little damage by continuing my spamming of my enmity building abilities.

For the bulk of these fights I did not receive Haste and there was no Bard or Corsair for songs or rolls. At times the rate at which I was Paralyna'd was slow or sometimes not at all. I viewed these battles as a stress test for Dancer tank, so I did not make any comments to my party on the quality of support.



< Draketrader Zlodgodd >
- This opportunity was thrust on me when the main tank and only planned tank for this battle was killed mid-way. I had not planned on tanking or even operating as a secondary tank, but I was able to gain and maintain hate through melee and mage attacks after slipping into my tank gear set and spamming through my Waltz, buff and debuff line. This NM uses the Dragoon Jump ability a lot which hits extremely hard. Keeping utsusemi up is a must, but should they go down be ready to cure yourself to maintain your hate.




< Faust >
- I was extremely nervous about this NM as I wasn't sure if I could maintain a constant Waltz spam to keep up with the HP that I was losing. I went into the fight with near 300% TP and a full 5 Steps with my No Foot Rise timer about halfway. I was surprised to find that I didn't have that much of a problem maintaining hate. I continued to hold hate until about 10% where the mages had gone nuke happy at around 50% and pulled hate. However, I was able to pull it back to me after an Animated Flourish, Spectral Jig and a Waltz III.
- Overall I was expecting everything to go badly because of Faust's WS spam, but it went quite well and was the highlight of my day in Sky.


< Brigandish Blade >
- This NM has fairly quick attack speed along with En-Terror and can hit like a truck. If you have a second tank, it is very preferable to bounce hate back and forth between the two of you. I made the mistake of pinning hate on myself and was hammered heavily by both his weapon skills and normal hits. I also focused too much on trying to successfully cast Utsusemi when I should have healed myself in between casting attempts to maintain my hate. Otherwise, the fight went along very well.

- On my second attempt at this NM I fared much better. I was able to keep utsusemi up for most of the fight, being supported by my own stuns via Violent Flourish or by Stuns from other mages. Keeping the hate was never an issue and the fight went along smoothly.


< Zipacna >
- Zipacna died very quickly, so my experience on Dancer tank is limited, however he is not really much harder to tank than a normal crystal golem. The only point for worry is that he spams the Crystal Rain move.

- My second attempt at this NM was only slightly longer than the first. I had a little bit of a problem maintaining hate because of the quickness in which the NM was pulled.


< Steam Cleaner >
- Because this NM has En-TP Drain, it can be extremely annoying and deadly to a Dancer tank. However, keeping utsusemi up did not prove too difficult. For this attempt I was in the melee party and used Divine Waltz whenever I could, which gave me a huge amount of hate to work with. The melee and mages were able to go all out and I was still able to maintain hate because of the utilization of Divine Waltz.

- Second go at this NM was about the same as the first. No issues and no problems holding hate against melee and mages.


< Mother Globe >
- The initial pull was somewhat sloppy, so the beginning of the fight was chaotic. However, I was able to maintain hate fairly well even during the chaos. This fight did present a challenge to me as Mother Globe has a very potent shock spikes. I could not melee and keep my shadows up at the same time, as I would generally be stunned from the Shock Spikes. Therefore, I simply turned around and used my Steps and Reverse Flourish to gain my needed TP. There were a few times where I only had 9 or less TP, so I would turn for a moment to gain enough for another one or two Steps before turning back around again.


< Ullikummi >
- This NM was done in a low-man attempt (RDM BLM DNC DNC). I was able to keep Ullikummi off of the RDM and BLM around 75% of the time and tank the NM straight up during that time. However, a lot of my time was spent managing utsusemi from its Heavy Strike and Diaga spam and as such did not have much time to melee to gain TP. When I did lose hate, the NM was simply kited around the teleport pad until I was able to regain hate.


< Genbu >
- Although generally viewed as the easiest of the Sky gods to defeat, I viewed this fight as an opportunity to show that Dancer tank could keep hate and was viable. This fight actually took place before I had finished my merits and tanking gear set, so this fight as an uphill battle.

However, I had already built my cure cheat code gear set and was using ninjutsu debuffs, so I had a way to maintain hate. Because of his high defense, I was able to keep hate fairly well from the melee and did alright keeping it from the Black Mages. I began the fight straight-tanking and then moved to kiting him whenever all of my utsusemi timers were down. He was surprisingly more difficult to straight-tank than I had originally thought.

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 4:07am by Kuuhalee

Thanks for the post. Dancer tanking definitely works as I have seen it work. Myself, I got dancer to 75 before I thought of it as a possible tank job. However, I was not a support role either - basically I walked the blm path and killed beastman pets. Soloing is tanking for a party of one. :p

What I would like to hear though are more accounts of dancer tanking in endgame situations. Note: "endgame" does not necessarily equal HNMs as I know convincing an HNM LS to allow you to try is not happening. I mean other events that level 75s tend to do. Again, this is soloing more than tanking, but on JoL my old LS had me hold one of its spawned sharks. I did this easily.

What I would love to hear is if anyone has ever tried tanking a Salvage chariot. My salvage group enjoys having me come dancer and not too long ago we were fighting LBC. It had just done homing missle, reset hate, and the whm spat out a Cure V which meant his death. After the whm went down, he asked that people kite him around while he unweakened (we had plenty of time). What wound up happening was that the tanks kept getting smacked around and other healers stole hate and died too. I asked to be moved to the main party so I could help cure and I did steal hate and kited it around but it was too late. Too many people were weakened and time caught up to us so the run ended without a win. After reading this post, I cannot help but wonder what would have happened if I had been transferred to the main party earlier and if I had tried TANKING it while the rest of the party regrouped.

I would love to know if you can tank Byakko. :D

/sigh...will my work never be done?

Byakko is very easy to solo tank with utsusemi in an evasion setup. I'm not familiar with a DNC's evasion options, but if a NIN can stay alive without evasion traits, then presumably a DNC could. The trick would be holding hate. I would think that a DNC using a PLD-esque cure-cheat macro (swap in +hp gear, cure, swap back, turning any cure into a simple +enmity ability) would be in pretty good shape for hate gain, as long as it's possible to keep accuracy high enough in an evasion build to keep tp flowing after the initial 300 is gone.

What is your enmity setup and what monsters have you fought? I'm just curious as to what other people who have utilized Dancer as a tank have done and such not.

Well, I mean, which HNMs exactly have you fought with DNC and tanked on? :O I haven't had much of a chance to tackle many higher end monsters on Dancer tank as of yet. So I was wondering which ones you have done and what your experience with them has been like.

Edited, Jan 19th 2010 2:47am by Kuuhalee

I've manage to pull hate on tiamat and tank it both in the air and on ground for all of 2 minutes each time.
I've tried my hand at di but just can't keep hate unless I purposely take damage.
Suzaku but eventually go down to firega
I've had some luck tanking on faf.
Scylla knocked my weapons off and ate me the first chance he got.
Various mobs of that nature. My problem is that I'm really fighting against the plds and I get no support. I'm basically soloing whenever I tank.
I'm still learning the tricks myself but I think Secretkeeper is right "DNC can do such a good job at escaping damage" but I've never tried dd tanking. Since I get no support I really need the tp for heals. I do find it a lot easier to tank working with another tank.

"Cure-cheat" tanking is always the better option, simply because there's no reason not to do it. You can tank as offensively as you like an still throw out hate bombs any time you feel like it. If people are hurt, cure them, but it's silly to sit on easy hate just because no one is currently hurt.

It's been long-noted by NINs and THFs that Parrying is quite effective against HNM-level mobs. The general theory seems to be that Parrying checks against a mob's level rather than its accuracy, and most HNMs aren't actually very high level (but rather simply have huge stats), so Parrying isn't as diminished against high-end targets as most stats are. It'll never come close to replacing a proper defensive ability, but as an occasional free bonus it's really quite nice.

If you want to cap Parry with the least grief, I recommend tanking Byakko and Charybdis.

Pretty sure THF has the highest evasion.. :o

Without gear doesn't nin cap out at 277 where dnc hit's 313 and thf 332?

lol. dnc isn't a puller! Get a real party with a bard.

OP is just gunna go with "NO U!" as a reply to that.

Yes, because a rating button and a CoP guide mean the facts I listed are false, nevermind them being unrelated to CoP. Great logic, there.


Let's go, allaDNCs! Fingers in ears, let's sing "lalala" and make 2005 parties that we can "tank"!

The post is still active so the op is still relevant. It's not like sock dug up an old post. Many people will read the original post and skim through the rest so I really don't see why there is an issue with him commenting on it. Sock did bring up a few valid points even though I don't fully agree with most of them.

From... what?

Dude, if you're going to criticise a post in an active thread (and this is an active thread, even though it started years ago), then criticise a recent post. You had two years to say something about the Op, and you didn't. Your criticisms of a post from 2003 would still be valid as well, but you'd have missed the bus on them too.

The thread moved on. Mooooooooove with it. If you have something to add to the thread, then add it. Trying to pwn a two-year-old post is just silly, and isn't getting you the internet high-score that you seem to be reaching for.

Perhaps you'd also like to remind WHM's in 2003 that they should be subbing /SCH?

Alright let's be productive or take it to pms pls.
I believe the original point of the op was that sometimes it's hard to find a tank or healer and how easily dnc can fill that role. The op was very uneducated on it though.