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Question about Frames and HeadsFollow

#1 Dec 09 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Hi, I'm starting fresh, have no gil, no sub job etc, but I want to be a Pup. I know it is expensive, so I'm working really hard farming wild onions so I can pay for it.

Anyway, I don't want any of the frames and heads, except the stormwaker body and soulsoother head. Can I skip the other ones or do they have to be done procedurally? Because that will make me have to farm a lot more onions... :(

I want a puppet that is basically a healer.
#2 Dec 09 2012 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
If you aren't going to get all of them, don't play the job. My advice would be to level BLU(saw that you were posting in their forum yesterday) or some other job like that, get it some decent gear, and farm dynamis or something. Best option for that would probably be BST to 99 and DNC to 49. If you are having a hard time affording heads and frames then you won't like how much attachments are going to cost you.
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#3 Dec 09 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Default
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A new player cannot play BLU. They require CoP to get all their spells. Found this out the hard way and started all over again.

Affording isn't a problem, I'm farming my ass off like I said.

And your logic escapes me: please at the very least explain your reasoning behind "Don't play the job if you don't want all the parts".

My reasoning is simple. I don't want to waste time, I have no plans to play a damage dealer, a tank or a black mage, I do however have great interest is having a puppet that heals me.
#4 Dec 09 2012 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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So, are the others skippable, or do I HAVE to get them before I can get what I want? That's all I need to know.

Thanks.
#5 Dec 09 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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Yes you can skip the heads though you will need 40 iirc for soul soother WHM.
You will want to look into getting them all at some point though.

DNC will be your go to /sub so look into it.

Pup also does well in dyna for farming.

Enjoy the job how you see fit.

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#6 Dec 10 2012 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
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Dalans wrote:
Yes you can skip the heads



This is incorrect. I ran into this issue while helping my brother level pup several months ago. We Ground of Valored him up to 40 and when he tried to get the soul soother head, the only option presented to him was the Valoredge frame (which was the only frame he hadn't unlocked yet)

So, yes, you have to get ALL frames before you get the option for the WHM head. And you have to be at least level 40 (10 levels after the final frame) in order to get the option for the extra mage heads.

Until then, the Harlequin will heal you when you just start out (once you skill up it's magic to 12, that is). It would totally make sense for your first unlocked frame at level 10 to be the Stormwaker, which will be able to heal you even better than Harlequin. Then you can just full-time Stormwaker and ignore the Sharpshot and Valoredge frames you get until you get to 40 and unlock the Soulsoother head.

And even after you DO, the Stormwaker head still has its uses as it can cast more defensive enhancing spells on you than the Soulsoother (phalanx and stoneskin, specifically) , which can be more effective in some situations.

Edited, Dec 10th 2012 2:29am by CireXF
#7 Dec 18 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
A new player cannot play BLU. They require CoP to get all their spells. Found this out the hard way and started all over again.


Not meaning to derail the thread but a new player can play BLU. CoP is not required but a good idea to get done for more spell options. Also, did not need to delete your character and start over just let a job sit and work on another.

When I last played I don't remember there being an option to check your puppets skill levels. Was this added in in the last 4-5 years?

Edited, Dec 18th 2012 9:15pm by Zymunn
#8 Dec 18 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zymunn wrote:


When I last played I don't remember there being an option to check your puppets skill levels. Was this added in in the last 4-5 years?



In the automaton equipment menu (the one you go to to put on attatchments), on the left hand side of the screen, it will list the automaton's stats (STR, DEX, INT, etc) along with their Melee, Magic, and Ranged skill levels.



It's been in place since PUP was released, but it's definitely not highlighted in anyway, so it's easy to miss.


Edited, Dec 19th 2012 4:02pm by CireXF
#9 Dec 19 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Miquote wrote:
Hi, I'm starting fresh, have no gil, no sub job etc, but I want to be a Pup. I know it is expensive, so I'm working really hard farming wild onions so I can pay for it.

Anyway, I don't want any of the frames and heads, except the stormwaker body and soulsoother head. Can I skip the other ones or do they have to be done procedurally? Because that will make me have to farm a lot more onions... :(

I want a puppet that is basically a healer.

The typical cited order (Sharpshot at 10 -> Stormwaker at 20 -> Valoredge at 30 -> Soulsoother at 40 -> Spiritreaver at 50) is given for several reasons, many of which are outdated, but most of which are still mostly true. Sharpshot is picked first because Harlequin can't skill up automaton ranged skill like it can melee and magic, and because it's the strongest puppet for party-play, due to it's strong damage output at any level, but especially the lower ones (back in the day, a level 30 pup with a decently equipped sharpshot was like having three DDs in a single party slot). Stormwaker came next because having a better MP pool, more spells to cast, and a shorter global recast (back before the global recast was as short as it is now) made skilling up magic a lot easier, and stormwaker got access to better cure spells faster than harlequin. Valoredge was picked last because every puppet can level melee skill, and valoredge was, at the time, pretty weak for both party and solo play. When Soulsoother and Spiritreaver were added, Soulsoother was pretty much the set first choice, because spiritreaver was pretty weak until you got some of the better attachments, and the appropriate spells (ie: save mob-pet burning, spiritreaver was pretty much useless until 75, at which point it became a powerhouse).

These days, due to how fast people level, the order doesn't matter significantly, and the only really obnoxious frame to get is sharpshot (Dat Crossbow....). It's worth having them all, even if you don't think you want to use them now, because you'll definitely want to later, however, as stated, you can't get soulsoother or spiritreaver until you have the first three frames anyway, so the point is moot.

Miquote wrote:
A new player cannot play BLU. They require CoP to get all their spells. Found this out the hard way and started all over again.

Affording isn't a problem, I'm farming my ass off like I said.

And your logic escapes me: please at the very least explain your reasoning behind "Don't play the job if you don't want all the parts".

My reasoning is simple. I don't want to waste time, I have no plans to play a damage dealer, a tank or a black mage, I do however have great interest is having a puppet that heals me.


Mmmm, The bulk of the spells that require CoP fall into either low-end CoP (balanced around 40-50 cap, meaning you can flyyyyyyyyy through it once you get to a decent level), or Sea spells, a lot of which, to my knowledge, have been phased out in favor of newer, higher level spells. Also, it's easier to get all the blue spells than it is to get all the pup attachments, because Ashu Talif Smiley: motz

Anyway, Blu is, by far, more newb-friendly than pup, and I have to agree with itege here. A lot of us old-time pups have been defending the job since it was actually terrible, and even still now as the stereotype persists. Stating that you don't want to play the job to its full potential kind of spits in the faces of everyone who's been defending the job all these years, because the reason it's kept it's bad rap is due to the vast number of pups who play terrible and have no idea wtf they're doing. I won't deny, about 70% of the time I use pup (by which I mean used, since my accounts been deactivated since like, august), I'm playing solo and rocking soulsoother, but that has more to do with the stuff I do and the jobs I have geared up. However, If you have no plans to play damage dealer, why the hell would you level a DD job? That's what pup is. It's a damage dealer. Of the three pet Jobs (drg doesn't really count, it's basically just samurai with a winged rat and less dev team love), Pup can't tank like bst, or play support like smn, but the damage a good pup puts out can be pretty obscene. Pup is a damage dealing job, so leveling it for any other purpose is... well... kind of silly.

Miquote wrote:
So, are the others skippable, or do I HAVE to get them before I can get what I want? That's all I need to know.

Thanks.

The only one that's skipable if you want soulsoother is Spiritreaver, but you'll honestly want it because level puppet magic skill is a sh*tton easier with spiritreaver than soulsoother.


Also, HAIGUISE
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#10 Dec 19 2012 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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CireXF wrote:
In the automaton equipment menu (the one you go to to put on attatchments), on the left hand side of the screen, it will list the automaton's stats (STR, DEX, INT, etc) along with their Melee, Magic, and Ranged skill levels.



It's been in place since PUP was released, but it's definitely not highlighted in anyway, so it's easy to miss.


Thanks. It's been years since I have played and still need to get PUP unlocked on my account this time around.

I did my first Dom Ops in Aby Altep. Had a PUP that solo'd dolls in seconds. That may not be big sh*t to most of you but as a returning player I was very impressed. I remember them having Empy +1 and +2, don't remember what weapon though. After I get WAR done, and Atma as I have yet to find someone to help me understand it as reading is not enough or me, PUP is one of the next two I will work on.
#11 Dec 19 2012 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
Lady Jinte wrote:
Also, HAIGUISE

Have my babies plox ;3
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#12 Dec 20 2012 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Miquote wrote:
farming wild onions
Holy crap, talk about a blast from the past.
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#13 Dec 21 2012 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
bsphil wrote:
Miquote wrote:
farming wild onions
Holy crap, talk about a blast from the past.

YOU, YOU AND JINTE BOTH CAN HAVE MY BABIES. <3<3<3<3<3<3<3
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Ya know, you're really similiar to me, whether you like that or not :p, but you need a catgirl display picture.

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