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#1 Jul 31 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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So you'll have to pardon me if this has already been posted but....

Quote:
Pup
Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=345425#post345425
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#2 Jul 31 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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Our new 2hour absolute garbage, worse so than **** overdrive, and it's absolutely nothing more than a retarded gimmick to appease the idiots who don't know how to play the job, but like to think they do because "pup is differnt n speshul, and cuz i playz it, I iz differnt n speshul."

I dare ANYONE to try and prove me wrong on this. I will eat you alive.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#3 Jul 31 2012 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
Jinte most definitely not in her happy place...

Needs moar.... Cookies?
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#4 Jul 31 2012 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Jinte most definitely not in her happy place...

Needs moar.... Cookies?


NEEDS MORE DEAD PUPPIES.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#5 Jul 31 2012 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Jinte most definitely not in her happy place...

Needs moar.... Cookies?


NEEDS MORE DEAD PUPPIES.



Sorry I am fresh out of puppies. How about kittens?
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#6 Jul 31 2012 at 9:11 PM Rating: Default
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Jinte most definitely not in her happy place...

Needs moar.... Cookies?


NEEDS MORE DEAD PUPPIES.



Sorry I am fresh out of puppies. How about kittens?

Kittens work.
Screenshot






Screenshot
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#7 Jul 31 2012 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Jinte makes me want to cry in corner/be best friends with her.
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#8 Aug 01 2012 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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Jinte, could you please give me a more detailed explanation as to why the two hour is crap? I know it is, myself. But when I tried to explain to a friend why, I couldn't exactly get my point across. (He's a decently knowledgeable pup, but for some reason he's overly stuck on how 'amazing' new two hour for pup is .) I was hoping maybe your wording would help.
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#9 Aug 01 2012 at 3:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Darknightleo wrote:
Jinte, could you please give me a more detailed explanation as to why the two hour is crap? I know it is, myself. But when I tried to explain to a friend why, I couldn't exactly get my point across. (He's a decently knowledgeable pup, but for some reason he's overly stuck on how 'amazing' new two hour for pup is .) I was hoping maybe your wording would help.


Jinte can correct these if I'm mistaken on the points, but breaking it down per frame:

Harlequin - You shouldn't be using this one at all once you get past lv. 10, since its physical damage output is minimal in comparison to Sharpshot and Valoredge. Giving it Mighty Strikes when its melee and weaponskills are far weaker than either of those two is just a bad choice on their part.

Sharpshot - If you look at Eagle Eye Shot for Rangers, it hasn't been an impressive damage dealing attack in years. Sure it's highly accurate, but it's going to probably deal damage closer to Daze than either of the "Armor" weaponskills.

Valoredge - This one's already beefy enough as is, and can take a hit pretty well physically. Giving it Invincible is somewhat like a Paladin with Ochain using Invincible; it's going to help, but it's not going to be a drastic improvement to its survivability.

Stormwalker - This is one I believe she thinks will be the iffy one out of the bunch, but that'll depend on how Square Enix handles the AI's behavior with it. All casting heads have minimum set delays before they'll attempt to cast a new spell, regardless of the actual recast time that the spell itself has. If Chainspell bypasses the set delays, then it'll be a decent two-hour, but if it doesn't, and only affects the casting time, then it'll be fairly worthless given how few spells you'll actually be able to get off in that time frame.

Soulsoother - It'd be nice if it actually affected the entire party within the area, but it only affects the Automaton and the Puppetmaster, making it pretty lackluster there.

Spiritreaver - Unlike a Black Mage where, as soon as you get done casting a spell you can go right into another spell (taking advantage of the fact you have an unlimited MP pool at the time), Spiritreaver has a minimum set delay before it will attempt to cast a new spell. Because of this, and the fact that there are ways to keep a near unlimited MP pool anyway, it falls short there too.

Edited, Aug 1st 2012 5:53am by Vlorsutes
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#10 Aug 01 2012 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, the problem with this new 2H is that it's probably going to be inferior in every way to the 2Hs of the jobs it takes:

Harlequin - Mighty Strikes: Besides the fact that Harlequin is useless past level 10, there's the fact that, even if given to Valoredge, it would be inferior to WAR's: WARs get ALL their hits auto crit, while PUPs only get a fraction of their hits automatically crit (the master hits will be normal).

Valoredge - Invincible: Keeping a player alive is definitely way more useful than keeping a pet that you can replace every 2 minutes and get to full HP with oils. If the PLD player dies, he has to suffer 5 (or 3 if Arised) minutes of weakness. The automaton will only be unavailable for 2 minutes TOPS, and usually will be instantly available and ready.

Sharpshot - Eagle Eye Shot: Either it's utter **** like RNG's (5x damage shot that can miss), or the formula is changed to not suck and the damage is in the range of 3-4 Armor shatterers, which would make it good, and no, NOT overpowered. Now that I think of it, EES is so bad that the worst we can get is the same **** RNGs do. Wow ;_;

Stormwaker - Chainspell. Even if it's the one with the highest potential, RDMs are players, and can intelligently choose the sequence of spells to cast given the situation. At best, Stormwaker's Chainspell will be like the chainspell of a mob, a quick succession of random spells (Although let's admit it, we will probably be able to make it nuke away with 3x Ice).

Soulsoother - Benediction: It's been discussed already, and it's so true: It's no Benediction if the whole party is not affected. Will be useful, sure, but... Inferior to WHM's.

Spiritreaver - Manafont: Even if we get the monsters version of Manafont, and the automaton gets nuke spammy, it still will be crap. A good BLM going all out first (almost) depletes his MP pool, then pops Manafont, and keeps barraging nukes. We can just do that by deactivating after getting low on MP, and the automaton again won't do an intelligent selection of nukes like a BLM will, so... Inferior to BLM's.


All in all, my sentiment with this 2H is that at SE, they had the impression that PUPs got 6 2H in 1, so the potency can't be the same. But since they are going to be mutually exclusive, we actually get a WORSE 2H than each of their counterparts, with no added benefit.




And, despite of all this... Jinte, I'm sorry, but other than Valoredge and maybe Sharpshoot (remember to mock me when my dreams of an improved EES are crushed, btw), the new one IS better than Overdrive: Harlequin will hit way harder, not that it matters, but it will. Stormwaker and Soulsoother will get more benefit from chainspell and mini-Benediction than the physical boost Overdrive provides, and Spiritreaver doesn't care either way, as both are equally useless to it.
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#11 Aug 01 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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I"ve read the criticism since the start and I'm waiting to see how it goes. Implementation is most important.

However, what kind of 2 hour would you suggest instead?
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#12 Aug 01 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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Taim and Vlor pretty much summed up every point, except for the fact that while this system allows you to use different 2hours with different frames, since it's head based, we all know that's a crock, because putting harlequin head on valoredge or sharpshot is just stupid.

TaimMeich wrote:
And, despite of all this... Jinte, I'm sorry, but other than Valoredge and maybe Sharpshoot (remember to mock me when my dreams of an improved EES are crushed, btw), the new one IS better than Overdrive: Harlequin will hit way harder, not that it matters, but it will. Stormwaker and Soulsoother will get more benefit from chainspell and mini-Benediction than the physical boost Overdrive provides, and Spiritreaver doesn't care either way, as both are equally useless to it.

Harlequin might hit a bit harder, but overdrive gives a large amount of melee haste, and that haste will easily compete with, if not outright beat, harlystrikes. That, and Overdrive has the defensive benefit of Fealty, which at least adds some additional survivability to all the puppets, and being able to pump out maneuvers without overload... well at this point it basically just means you don't need to swap as much gear, but honestly, that's mostly a non-issue at this point. Basically, overdrive gives the puppets something tangible in the form of offense and defense. Most of these do not do that, or do not do it as well. and the entirety of it is uneven; it does not benefit each puppet equally.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#13 Aug 01 2012 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Reposting my thoughts on what would have been something more impressive or a sort of idea as to what we really should have gotten, which I posted in the official forum's thread;

Quote:
Just because I've noticed some people here and other places wanting to hear what sort of alternative I had expected for pup, I'll provide two examples of how using the same concept would be implemented in a much more appropriate/useful fashion:

First Example: Similar to the current one, but admitting that while the puppets are each based on player jobs, they are not, themselves, those jobs, and their unique 2hours should not be identical.

- Harlequin: An ability that either puts a nasty debuff on the mob (similar to the thought behind brd's new 2hour) or gives THE MASTER a buff that validates using harlequin for any reason other than getting laughed at.

- Valoredge: An ability that temporarily transfers all damage taken by the master to the puppet, or vice versa, or both, transfering it to whomever doesn't have hate, and ignoring AoE damage that hits both. Alternatively, do it with TP.

- Sharpshot: An ability that drops the Ranged Attack recast to 0~2 seconds, essentially giving sharpshot the ability to make use of that rapid crossbow we had to pay out the **** for/spend forever finding mats and a crafter for when we made the thing. It could even weaken the ranged attacks a bit to not be totally overpowered, since at best we're able to hit 12 seconds between ranged attacks and then have to rely on low-skill melee attacks to actually get TP. For the record, 12 seconds between ranged attacks is equal to ~1320 ranged delay, and that's with an r.acc penalty. The 20 second base delay is an outrageous 2200 delay. If SE tried to force players to use weapons with over 1k delay, everyone would just laugh at them.

- Stormwaker: The opposite of what harlequin got; if Harle was given an enfeeble, give stormwaker a badass buffing ability; if harle got the badass buff, give stormwaker a really nasty 2hourdebuff ability.

- Soulsoother: Since soulsoother is probably the most like its base job, giving a benediction-esqe effect would be fine, so long as it's not stupid like this one, and actually effects the entire party. If you want to keep off whm's toes, make it so that it only heals 50% of everyone's max HP or something, or that it gives them their HP back as a regen effect instead of in one big chunk. Actually, I kind of like that latter one, instead of Benediction it'd be Regenediction, and could be like, 5% HP/tick regen, which would heal 100% of a player's HP over 60 seconds, and would actually be as useful as benediction, without being the same thing, and useful in different situations. Alternatively; Mijin Gacure (terrible spelling pun, I'm sorry), the puppet detonates itself and the explosion heals all the surrounding party members.

- Spiritreaver: Spiritreaver's a bit trickier, since manafont is functionally pointless, and chainspell with T5 nukes would be... a tad wonky, since it would be more like nuke nuke aspir aspir aspir aspir nuke aspir aspir nuke aspir aspir aspir nuke, unless the target isn't aspirable, and then it would be nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke mpgonenowwhatdoIdo? Simply giving it a damage boost would be questionable, because every other nuking job would want that as their 2hour too, and the alternative of giving it access to an otherwise inaccessible spell would be silly, since the only spells strong enough to actually make that work would be Impact, Comet, and Meteor, any of which would cause blms to rage pretty hard, though meteor more so than the other two. We could make pretty good use of Comet and Impact, I'd think, but having them as a 2hour would be a bit underwhelming. I really can't think of anything special for spiritreaver otherwise, though.

Second Example: One I sort of touched on earlier, and the one I feel would be more appropriate for pup, given the split between pet/master heavily favors the master (not to the degree of drg, but still); a spirit surge-esqe ability that could vary by frame, or just be universal.

- Standardized: Merges the Master and the Automaton, and really, the buff could be nearly identical to spirit surge (25% magic haste, Max HP+15%, adds pet's TP upon usage) and replace the Jump enhancements, and the large str enhancement, with this instead: any active maneuvers when the JA is used will be converted into stat buffs for the master (ie: fire maneuver -> str, thunder -> dex, etc), giving +20 stat for the first of a type of maneuver, and +5 for each identical maneuver (so 3 FM would be STR+30, 2 FM 1 TM would be STR+25 DEX+20, and 1 FM 1 TM 1 EM would be STR+20 DEX+20 VIT+20)

By Frame:
- Universal traits: Pet is lost, max HP is increased, and at the time of use the master will both receive the pet's TP, and be healed based on the pet's current HP; additionally, it would give stat buffs based on the current pet's head/frame combo, converting elemental capacity x3 to stats (essentially, Fire -> str, Thunder -> dex, Wnd -> agi, Earth -> vit, Water -> mnd, Ice -> int, but let's convert light maneuvers to a regen effect, since chr is useless, and since dark maneuvers translate to mp, let's change that, to a 1:1 regain effect (1 slot = 1 tp/tick)

- Harlequin: Gives the master an averaged buff; Stat buffs (harle head/frame would be str/dex/vit/agi/mnd/int+15 9HP/tick regen and 3tp/tick regain), atk+5%, acc+15, def+5%, eva+15, MDT-5%, 10% JA haste

- Valoredge: Gives the master a boost in survivability; Stat buffs (str/vit +21, dex/agi, mnd+9, int+6, 15HP/tick regen and 2tp/tick regain), atk+10%, def+10%, a larger increase to max HP relative to the other frames, as well as temporarily granting valoredge's natural DT (it would give the master -20%; it's actually -12%+9% from stout servant, but I'm rounding down for clean numbers), and just because it wouldn't be SE otherwise, it would also significantly boost guard's proc rate while active (they might even let it go as high as a staggering 10% proc rate!); Additionally, it would change the pup's melee attacks to slashing damage (WS would still be blunt)

- Sharpshot: Gives the master a boost in damage; Stat buffs (agi+21, str/dex+18, mnd+15, vit+9, int +6, 15HP/tick and 2tp/tick regain), 25% JA haste, acc+30, crit rate+10%, and it would change the pup's melee attacks to piercing damage (WS would still be blunt)

- Stormwaker: Gives the master a magical edge; Stat buffs (see below, since it would vary by head), 10% Magic haste, MDT-10%, M.Eva+ (whatever the equivalent amount would be based on the other frames), and it would convert the pup's melee attacks to magical damage (either non-elemental, like formless strikes, or elemental, based on either the day or the weather (or both; like how geode drops work: Weather takes priority, but if it's not present, the day will determine it); WS would still be physical blunt damage)
--- Full Stormwaker Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 9HP/tick regen, 6TP/tick regain
--- Soulsoother Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 18HP/tick regen, 4TP/tick regain
--- Spiritreaver Stats: int+21, mnd+18, vit+15, agi+12, dex+9, str+6, 9HP/tick regen, 7TP/tick regain


Did I actually expect SE to implement something this intricate? No. Did I expect SE to do better than what they're presenting now? Yes. By a good deal. The only real downfall with overdrive is that it affects the pet, and not the master, since the pet is the lesser focus for pup. If Overdrive affected the master, that **** would have been so nice...
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#14 Aug 01 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:
Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)
...
PUP:
Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)

Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)


an improvement, at least.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#15 Aug 01 2012 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure it's a pipe-dream now that these have been announced, but perhaps something like this would be useful:

Synchronization- Master Buffs also apply to automaton for duration of the effect, and Master also gains effects of Automaton's attatchments for the duration of the effect.

I have no idea if it would be difficult/possible to code, and is entirely dependent on PUP being in a well supported party, but could something like this help with PUP's zerg situation?
#17 Aug 02 2012 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
Meh I kind of wish they never gave Alexander to summoners so we could kind of get our only good lore on with that "Giant moving castle control by a puppetmaster" as our 2 hour.(one of the npcs in town talks about it and it is alluded to during the ToAU Storyline.)

**** it, doesn't have to be known as alexander just random Giant moving castle. And still use the "Effects based on Head" concept.
*Goes on fever dream*
In order of Least damaging to strongest:
Stormwaker: None elemental damage, Inflicts a variety of status effects. Temporarily blocks an enemies aura. Single target.
SoulSoother: Deals Light elemental damage. Single target. Removes all debuffs and grants a strong magic damage taken down bonus to party members in range.(Automaton included)
Harlequin: Unleashes a flurry of blunt damage attacks.(A multi hit, aoe attack,) Pet and master will gain a strong haste and a moderate weaponskill potency effect for a short time
Valoredge: Deals a severe slashing damage attack, Single target. Grants a regen and a strong physical damage taken down effect to party members in range.(Automaton included)
Spirit reaver: Deals severe Dark damage. Inflicts a powerful poisoning effect along with stat downs. Single target.
Sharpshot: Deals 3 seperate bursts(~3 seconds apart) of peircing damage.Single target(it will appear as 3 seperate attacks with their own damage showing in the log) Master will gain a strong double attack bonus, a moderate triple attack bonus, and a small quadruaple attack bonus and the automaton will gain access to a buff that will randomly cause him to barrage for a short time.(30 seconds)

The idea behind harle is to make it an oh **** button while soloing. Won't effect party situation when zerging since the haste would be redundant since we should be getting embrava and/or soul voice march and we rarely fight Multiple targets n this game. The idea behind sharpshot is to lend buffs to the master that will help in a 2 hour zerging situation that isn't stupidly strong since we are suppose to be well rounded. Odds are the pet will die off anyways after the 2 hour.(start off strong and kind of tapper off I guess.)

Anyways I am done dreaming going back to reality where I play pso2 instead of this game.
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#18 Aug 02 2012 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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The issue is to non pups it would sound retarded to give pups what we want.

EG Our 2nd 2 hour should be 2 (TWO) two hours per pet that it uses simultaneously

Harle - mighty strikes + hundered fists
Valoredge - perfect defense for the entire party (or even just the pet + master) + enmity lock on valoredge
blm - chainspell + manafont
rdm - chain spell + sabeutur on all debuffs for the next 30s
whm -

ETC

Mighty strikes on its own is meh, and even hundred fists is kinda meh on harle since his dmg is so blah, the combination of the two though....might actually be worth using.

Just my 2 cents
#20 Aug 03 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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lol why people hating on the new 2 hours? it kinda great. the old 2 hours ok too but new will be alot more useful in some ways

Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invincible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont
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#21 Aug 03 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I've already expressed quite clearly why I'm hating on this new 2hour and why it's a steaming pile of **** I've yet to see anyone actually counter my point with equally sound logic, I've been waiting for someone to try and prove me wrong with it. I've got an hour to go on my test server update, after which I'll throw myself into testing it out, and will either be eating my own words, which would honestly make me very happy, or confirming that this 2hour is absolute garbage.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#22 Aug 03 2012 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26302
Square Enix wrote:

Puppetmaster Allows automatons to use a special ability that varies by head.
Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes
Valoredge Head: Invisible
Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot
Stormwaker Head: Chainspell
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (will only affect the automaton and members of its master's party)
Spiritreaver Head: Manafont


Quote:
Soulsoother Head: Benediction (will only affect the automaton and members of its master's party)


OK, that's actually really cool. Dunno if this was a change in response to initial player reaction, or just a mistranslation/lack of info earlier, but extending the effect to the master's party is super nice stuff if you happen to be using Soulsoother.

Also, LMFAO at S-E typo for Valoredge head. InVISible? Hahahahahaha. Maybe if we petition for it, they'll give Sneak to Stormwaker and Deodorize to Harle?
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#24 Aug 03 2012 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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It's not EES. It's NERFED EES.

I repeat

Square enix gave us

NERFED Eagle Eye Shot.


Players: EES Damage = Regular Ranged Attack x 5.0
Puppets: EES Damage = ((regular automaton ranged attack x 4.0) +6 damage)
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#26 Aug 04 2012 at 3:39 AM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:
It's not EES. It's NERFED EES.

I repeat

Square enix gave us

NERFED Eagle Eye Shot.


TaimMeich wrote:
(remember to mock me when my dreams of an improved EES are crushed, btw)


Please.
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#27 Aug 04 2012 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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I'll give SE points in that on average, pup's EES will hit harder than rng's EES, even with the nerf, however, that depends entirely on the rng's crit rate, since rng's EES can crit, and with dead aim, ranged crits are pretty insane (just a bit less than double damage compared to regular hits). To compare,

Rng with a 143 D weapon (vision bow +ruszor arrows, from the test server) gives 574 damage on a regular hit, and 2872 on EES, but a crit EES is 5302 damage (true shot's sweet spot bonus included for all 3)
Compared to Pup's 144 D weapon giving 831 with capped fSTR and base dex+13 (AF3+2 gloves cap fSTR and were easy to test with), and gives an EES of 3330, which is higher than rng by ~450 dmg, due pretty much entirely to the dex mod pet ranged attacks have.

Also, just an fyi, a pup named Balloon did some tests for me while I was playing with EES, harle's mighty strikes DOES work on pet WS (bone crusher went from 500ish to 1200ish with the same TP return against the same mob (mangy-tailed marvin), but does NOT work for sharpshot's ws (didn't influence armor shatterer at all), and I further tested and confirmed that mighty strikes does not boost sharpshot's ranged attacks in any way. We already knew they couldn't crit, but as quasi-WS, it was possible that mighty strikes could force them to, but it didn't.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#28 Aug 04 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
Quick question Jinte, as i've been too bummed by more PS3 Dawnguard delays to go looking for myself; how long is the PUP alternate 2-hr lasting on the test server?
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One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...


Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
#29 Aug 05 2012 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:


Also, just an fyi, a pup named Balloon did some tests for me while I was playing with EES, harle's mighty strikes DOES work on pet WS (bone crusher went from 500ish to 1200ish with the same TP return against the same mob (mangy-tailed marvin), but does NOT work for sharpshot's ws (didn't influence armor shatterer at all), and I further tested and confirmed that mighty strikes does not boost sharpshot's ranged attacks in any way. We already knew they couldn't crit, but as quasi-WS, it was possible that mighty strikes could force them to, but it didn't.


Am I reading this wrong that Mighty strikes was used on Sharpshot frame or were you just head swapping using Harle head w/ SS frame?


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#30 Aug 05 2012 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
Maybe a solution to this problem would be to ask square to scale Harlequin frame up a bit so it be more useful(Maybe a secondary quest to +1 it, so we can adjust it's cast list, maybe give it a larger mp pool reduced the spells cast to.. Just cures, paralyze slow and maybe haste that it casts on itself and the master. And maybe an enpell or even temper{Steady on rdms.] for itself.) Increase the over all offensive stats of it. And ask for a unique third weaponskill over Magic mortor.(Maybe a 4 to 6 hit weaponskill alla hexa strike style. Crit hit rate varies with tp) And put it somewhere below sharp shot and above Valor edge In offensive capabilities. (Since edge is sturdier and has tactical elements to it as well.)

I must be smoking to much imaginary pot.
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#31 Aug 06 2012 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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Friar spiritreaverdiablos wrote:
Quick question Jinte, as i've been too bummed by more PS3 Dawnguard delays to go looking for myself; how long is the PUP alternate 2-hr lasting on the test server?

It's hard to say since (when last I was on the test server, I took a few days off), there was no "effect wears off" message for the pet, but mighty strikes seemed to last the expected 45 seconds, so I would assume chainspell, manafont, and invincible are likewise the same durations as their respective player versions.

Dalans wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:


Also, just an fyi, a pup named Balloon did some tests for me while I was playing with EES, harle's mighty strikes DOES work on pet WS (bone crusher went from 500ish to 1200ish with the same TP return against the same mob (mangy-tailed marvin), but does NOT work for sharpshot's ws (didn't influence armor shatterer at all), and I further tested and confirmed that mighty strikes does not boost sharpshot's ranged attacks in any way. We already knew they couldn't crit, but as quasi-WS, it was possible that mighty strikes could force them to, but it didn't.


Am I reading this wrong that Mighty strikes was used on Sharpshot frame or were you just head swapping using Harle head w/ SS frame?


Harle Head on Sharpshot Frame. Harle head = Mighty Strikes, no matter the frame.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#33 Aug 07 2012 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
Lady Jinte wrote:
Friar spiritreaverdiablos wrote:
Quick question Jinte, as i've been too bummed by more PS3 Dawnguard delays to go looking for myself; how long is the PUP alternate 2-hr lasting on the test server?

It's hard to say since (when last I was on the test server, I took a few days off), there was no "effect wears off" message for the pet, but mighty strikes seemed to last the expected 45 seconds, so I would assume chainspell, manafont, and invincible are likewise the same durations as their respective player versions.


Thanks for that.

Even with the clarification on PUP Bene though, just not feeling this addition. Feels like a cop-out to me. Instead of giving PUP something, i dunno, new or interesting(and there has been no shortage of cool ideas for a real PUP 2hr over the years that they could have drawn from...); SE just slaps on the old 2-hrs from some other jobs. Really underwhelmed.

Guess they shot the whole wad in regards to PUP with the AI changes.
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One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...


Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
#34 Aug 07 2012 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Any findings on Chainspell regarding the universal casting delay?
#35 Aug 08 2012 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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Manafont is garbage, like I expected. Basically just gives you 3-5 extra non-3xIce nukes before Aspir threshold, you know, if you don't use ADD for some reason.

Chainspell is... wonky. It doesn't affect casting priority at all, but sets all the category recasts to 1 second, and leaves the global 4sec recast, so basically your puppet will cast once every 5 seconds until CS wears. What it casts depends on maneuvers. When I tested on cuelebre, without scanner, it just sat there and spammed silence to the complete resist message until I through up an ice maneuver and got some nukes. That said, it will cast more nukes than it has mp for (1500-1600 mp worth of blizz/thunder IV) if you leave an ice maneuver up, but using economizer/converter/triggering a JA attachment at all will cost you a nuke because of how they line up. I really wasn't impressed, but it could have sucked a lot more. Basically, it shifts SW back to pre-massive AI overhaul, where the casting priority is determined only by maneuvers, because with all the globals under the 4sec universal, it can't alternate.

So basically, we didn't even get 6 full versions of the 2hours. We got benediction that they didn't even implement right (it doesn't work on the test server; only heals the pet, but they didn't fix that before going on summer vacation), invincible that we really didn't need, mighty strikes that requires we gimp our pet's damage (I've got fairly definite evidence that using harlequin head over valoredge head costs you in weapon D, now, in addition to atk/acc/elemental slots), EES that somehow manages to be weaker than Ranger's already pathetic EES, Manafont on top of the essentially perpetual manafont we've always had, and chainspell gimped by our puppet being retarded, and not affecting the 4 second global recast. This is exactly what I expected when I first read it, and is why I was so **** off and went on my tirade.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#36 Aug 09 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:
Chainspell is... wonky. It doesn't affect casting priority at all, but sets all the category recasts to 1 second, and leaves the global 4sec recast, so basically your puppet will cast once every 5 seconds until CS wears. What it casts depends on maneuvers. When I tested on cuelebre, without scanner, it just sat there and spammed silence to the complete resist message until I through up an ice maneuver and got some nukes. That said, it will cast more nukes than it has mp for (1500-1600 mp worth of blizz/thunder IV) if you leave an ice maneuver up, but using economizer/converter/triggering a JA attachment at all will cost you a nuke because of how they line up. I really wasn't impressed, but it could have sucked a lot more. Basically, it shifts SW back to pre-massive AI overhaul, where the casting priority is determined only by maneuvers, because with all the globals under the 4sec universal, it can't alternate.


While I agree that the AI issues and the universal recast not being adjusted are incredibly frustrating, this still looks like Chainspell might be useful for chain-nuking, which is really the only application I thought this 2-hour would have in the first place.

Stormwaker, with both Mana Tanks equipped, has a max mp of 1337(haha). You could have slightly higher with different animators/pup AF, but I think it's pretty basic to at least have both Mana Tanks on. Stormwaker also has room for both Loudspeakers, with just enough ice capacity left for the Power Cooler. At 3xIce Maneuvers, the Power Cooler is going to cut mp costs by 50%. Thunder IV has an mp cost of 171. Half of that (rounded up) is 86. The Stormwaker will have enough mp for at least 15 castings of Thunder IV.

I'm assuming this Chainspells lasts one minute? If so then the Stormwaker can get off 12 Thunder IV casts with the universal timer, so it'll have plenty of mp for this particular application, and you won't have to bother with changing up maneuvers for mp recharging. The most complicated part is making sure you keep up all 3 ice maneuvers for the duration of the 2-hour.

I'm horrible with dmg calculations (and horribly lazy, I admit), but 12 Thunder IVs with +45 MAB from the loudspeakers (could easily make it +55 just by including a Mana Channeler, even if you don't have water maneuvers up, not to mention whatever Optic Fiber will add) doesn't sound too shabby.
#38 Aug 09 2012 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:
Meh, puppet nuking in general has started lagging behind. Players are getting access to more and more MAB and affinity and multiplicative things like weather bonuses and ebullience, while puppets are stuck with the same exact "gear" and abilities that they had at 75. My BLM puppet's t5 nukes don't hold a candle to my SCH's t5 nukes even with 2x loudspeaker, icemaker and 3x ice, so chainspell loltier4 doesn't sound too great even if it had a brain


Hmm . . . that's very true. So it definitely seems like it would be weaker than a RDM chainspell nuking. It just doesn't seem quite as useless as the random spell spam described earlier if you can plan ahead with using it.
#39 Aug 09 2012 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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CireXF wrote:
Zelduh wrote:
Meh, puppet nuking in general has started lagging behind. Players are getting access to more and more MAB and affinity and multiplicative things like weather bonuses and ebullience, while puppets are stuck with the same exact "gear" and abilities that they had at 75. My BLM puppet's t5 nukes don't hold a candle to my SCH's t5 nukes even with 2x loudspeaker, icemaker and 3x ice, so chainspell loltier4 doesn't sound too great even if it had a brain


Hmm . . . that's very true. So it definitely seems like it would be weaker than a RDM chainspell nuking. It just doesn't seem quite as useless as the random spell spam described earlier if you can plan ahead with using it.

Yea, but honestly, maintaining that would really only be practical in situations whereyou're puppet isnt' going to pull hate and you're not meleeing, because riding 3 ice for the full minute it's up is going to be rough even with all four overload reductions. It's not "terrible" but it's not exactly amazing, either. might put out a little more damage than overdrive's haste boost would with VE, assuming no resists and that stormwaker doesn't get steamrolled mid 2hour, but it's not exactly a real "oh **** button.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#40 Aug 18 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know if they changed it, or why, but the 8/17 update says Valoredge is going to get Invisible, lmao!
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#42 Sep 01 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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That would be actually very very good. So, of course, we'll never get it ;_;
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