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#1 May 08 2012 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Hi all

Fairly new to FFXI in general and very new to PUP.

I've read a lot of threads here and just wanted to check that my understanding is correct. I will be soloing most of the time due to limited play time, other commitments etc.

I already have DNC at 60 for a sub and am working on NIN, currently 28, for another. The rough plan is below.

1-20 sub MNK
20-40 sub DNC
@40 get the WHM puppet
40+ sub NIN and let the puppet heal me.

Sound about right or should I keep going /DNC and use the puppet for more damage?
#2 May 08 2012 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Long story short you will want to be going back and forth between /nin and /dnc. Use /dnc when you are using the blm frame as well as the melee frames, to keep them skilled, as well as depending on the situation. And then use /nin when using whm and full storm walker frame. So 40+ do your own thing, find your playstyle.

This word has been overused, but remember VERSATILITY. PUP's greatest strength is being able to control any situation, and adapt to it. Which means you'll have to act accordingly.

Ps never let your skills gimp.
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#3 May 09 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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Thank for the info and the quick response.

I will keep working on my NIN and picking up attachments from the AH as I go hopefully will have most of them before I start leveling PUP.

P.S. keeping an eye on the new guide thread as well.
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#4 May 09 2012 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
You have a solid plan there Lemyr and Cam's advice to you is very good as well imo. I would only add that you may want to consider /war too. After you are more familiar with the game in general and with PUP more specifically of course.

War sub isn't always a great choice outside of situations where overall maximum PUP(DD master and DD pet) dmg is required. But i do really love when i can /war and can beat stuff to death at the same time as Klaxon, with us both setup for that specific task alone.

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#5 May 09 2012 at 3:30 AM Rating: Decent
I am pretty new to the "new" pup as well and would like to know a bit more about the DD attachments.

So far I have been playing with whm frame - which btw is awesome!! but I would like to have a bit more DD and was wondering which attachments should I use for BLM frame (I don't have all >.> but I am working towards getting them all)

Also, I saw a video someone soloing NMs in abyssea with PLD frame, which attachments would you use for PLD.

I have read about the attachments on the wiki site but I am pretty lost still. Any suggestions?
#6 May 09 2012 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I just wanted to give a quick response because I have been playing Pup since it was first introduced and I've seen it come a long way. First I must say that in order to be a good Pup it takes a lot of work. Nin and Dnc are good subs to have but like one of the above posters mentioned, War is another. I would only really use that sub if u get into a group fight and you want to go all out with damage from the master. The last sub I would suggest would be Sch. This sub is better in my eyes once you become higher in levels and you are trying to solo tougher monsters because you did mention you will be soloing a lot due to time constraints. Pup is the only job I play now because of time constraints as well.

I solo a lot with Valoredge and /Sch just like the Pup that was mentioned in the videos. His name is Nyheen by the way. We solo basically the same way but I think my attachments and atmas are a little different. As far as what attachments to get, it will depend more on what frame you like to use the most. Because I use Valoredge so much now I focus a lot on earth attachments. Second focus for me are the light based attachments that regen. They give your auto more hp and give you more time so you can summon your auto if you are fighting something that maybe killing your auto somewhat quickly.

#7 May 09 2012 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Well my advice was to get used to the job as safely as possible. I'm a huge believer in /war and do so as often as possible. I believe it's one, if not the best of the endgame/late stage subs.

And my friend, your attachment question must be specific. There are so many routes to setup your automaton, attachment wise. So if you have specific set up questions, I as well as others would be happy to help so long as you specify what frame you will be using and in what situation.

And thanks Spirit ;).
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#8 May 10 2012 at 1:38 AM Rating: Decent
Ok, sorry silly me I thought there was a "general" set for good dd lol

Ok, situations I would like to use BLM frame for usually come up in Abyssea when we have enough DD and healing. For example we were doing Crien Croin the other day and I was using my blm frame but it was pretty useless...

Then for the pld frame... I would like to give a try to solo some of the ironclads but I havent really played with PLD frame at all. So what attachments should I get, any gear suggestions, atmas etc?

I love pup and me and my muffin are a great companion her as whm but I would like to take it a bit further.

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#9 May 10 2012 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok thank you for the clarification! Let's start with the easy stuff.

For automaton tanking situations you shall want to use, Atma of the mounted champion, mostly for the regen and vit. Then use Atma of the ducal guard for huge -dt under 50% hp, where you'll want to keep your automaton around 30-49%. And then to make it go a bit quicker, throw in razed ruins for the crit rate, crit dmg, and the added acc. Throw on all your pet -dt gear, and then we shall move onto attachments. The staples for the automaton tanking set up are, both armor plates for huge dmg mitigation, barrier module for blocking. Both auto repair kits for more regen and hp. Dynamo, coiler, steam jacket, tension spring II, turbo charger, and strobe. As well as any other attachments you want to finish it up. During battle keep up 2 earth maneuvers and 1 dark so that your meat tank can recover the little bit of hp the giant is hurting it for :). Special attacks tend to be a bit dirty, in which case, do not be afraid to throw your automaton a repair or a role reversal (the regen will bring you to full anyways). With this setup your automaton can tank nearly every physical damaging mob. And even a bunch of the aga happy ones.

Blm automaton is a bit more difficult, because if you are going for best DD, using the blm head on the storm walker frame is hampering your highest DD potential. The best DD frames are Valoredge and Sharpshot. VE is a bit more aby friendly with High def, and hp, as well as huge attack and attack speed. Just equip yourself with Atma you use for your best dmg and it should work great on VE. Typical setups are RR,VV,SS. RR,VV,AoA. And well you can really switch up the third as you see fit. Sharpshot won't be much different except you will want to throw him in melee range to maximize dps.

I'd suggest if you are going to use BLM frame you should be playing backline yourself and going all out Mage Atma setup. MM, beyond, and ultimate, are some oldies but goldies. Your attachment set up should be, loudspeaker I & II, icemaker, mana conserver, mana I and II, Heatsink, mana channeler, auto repair kit, optic fiber, and then a few attachments for the possible hit your automaton WILL take.
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#10 May 10 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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That is suppppper helpful info :D :D :D I am gonna test this out now!! Thanks
#11 May 10 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks again for all the info. I want to try and get all my subs out of the way before I get my PUP going, I stress the try part.

Think I will be missing quite a few attachments for a while looking at some of the prices.
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#12 May 10 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Im glad I could help! All the targeting the captain attachments are easy enough to get, just get a couple of friends to go with you, it's very easy even at 3 man. Plus it has the added benefit of if you get an attachment you already have, you can sell it and put it towards some of the other attachments you don't have!
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#13 May 14 2012 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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spiritreaverdiablos, Averter of the Apoc wrote:
You have a solid plan there Lemyr and Cam's advice to you is very good as well imo. I would only add that you may want to consider /war too. After you are more familiar with the game in general and with PUP more specifically of course.


Agreed. The standard "trifecta" is /WAR /NIN /DNC.

/NIN: The heavily defense focused sub, and is needed for some fights where shadows are a necessity (for example, an NM with nasty AoE attacks that are absorbed by Utsusemi, some solo stuff).

/WAR: The full offense focused sub. Often useful in party situations where you have healing support, and even handy in a lot of solo situations where the puppet can keep you well healed and you really don't need shadows. Also the best choice in some events (for instance, Voidwatch where you need all the DD you can get and you survive based on use of temp items).

/DNC: Respectable in most situations and has a nice mix of survivability, support, and some offense (Acc bonus, Haste Samba), so it's a nice starting point and you already have it. You really can't get away with /DNC only though - sometimes /NIN will be really needed for shadows, and sometimes /WAR will be a clearly superior choice for offense.

Beyond that:

/THF is one I get a lot of use out of lately in Dynamis, or any other situation where farming is the priority and the puppet (or a real healer) can keep you alive without your use of /NIN or /DNC. It's only for Treasure Hunter II, but that makes a pretty significant difference if you're farming for a couple hours.

/SCH is something that to me is not really essential and is sort of past its prime, but may still be somewhat effective. Main use is to sleep/nuke solo (you sleep mobs, puppet nukes em) much like a ToAU-era BLM. Can also provide some party support if really needed and you're hanging back using a mage puppet.
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#14 May 15 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Anza I will add THF to my list of subs to get leveled.
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#15 May 26 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Camwin wrote:
Well my advice was to get used to the job as safely as possible. I'm a huge believer in /war and do so as often as possible. I believe it's one, if not the best of the endgame/late stage subs.

And my friend, your attachment question must be specific. There are so many routes to setup your automaton, attachment wise. So if you have specific set up questions, I as well as others would be happy to help so long as you specify what frame you will be using and in what situation.

And thanks Spirit ;).


pffffft, get used to it as safely as possible? pansy. I got used to pup by throwing it face first into EM-T mobs back when it was first released and sucked floppy donkey **** /exaggeratingoldfart

but yea, attachment set ups are highly situationally and individual experience based, however there are some basic set up... areas.

LeilaniWildfire wrote:
Ok, sorry silly me I thought there was a "general" set for good dd lol

Ok, situations I would like to use BLM frame for usually come up in Abyssea when we have enough DD and healing. For example we were doing Crien Croin the other day and I was using my blm frame but it was pretty useless...

Then for the pld frame... I would like to give a try to solo some of the ironclads but I havent really played with PLD frame at all. So what attachments should I get, any gear suggestions, atmas etc?

I love pup and me and my muffin are a great companion her as whm but I would like to take it a bit further.

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Ohaifellowsirenite. There are a few general set ups, especially with Spiritreaver. Oh, and VE's not a pld, btw, no matter what shield bash wants you to think. VE's a warrior.

General Rules:
Spiritreaver (blm):
Mandatory:
Ice Maker
Loudspeaker I & II


Emphasizing Ice Maker because it's **** mandatory, and with out it, Spiritreaver can't nuke any better than a Rdm in melee gear, Loudspeaker I and II are also very important for it because of what Ice Maker does

Immensely Helpful:
Optic Fiber: Further increases the MAB you get form LS1/2
Condenser: Until you get all the overload redux gear, this is immensely helpful, because you'll overload like crazy without that gear or this attachment
Tranquilizer: If your auto magic skill isn't capped, and your having trouble with resists, replace your LS1 with this. Once you're capped, you won't really need it any more for SR, though
Mana Tank I & II: Usually give you enough MP to get off 2 or 3 T5 nukes before your puppet gets Aspir-happy, if you're not using Activate-Deploy-Retrieve-Nuke-Deactivate-Repeat (ADD/DAD/DDA/whatever you want to call it)
Auto-repair Kits I &/or II: depending on what you can set, these are so **** useful for the inevitable "Oh **** me, repair and role reversal are down, I'm out of pet-meds, and my puppet just took **** 5 damage, so I can't deactivate" moments.

Helpful:
Mana Channeler: When ADDing, the +5 seconds to the elemental recast is negated, and it becomes nothing but moar MAB for harder nukes.
Economizer: If you're not ADDing, this is incredibly handy for keeping MP up, especially outside of abyssea
Appropriate defensive attachments (ie: if you're fighting something AoE spammy, find out what type of damage it's aoe spammy...ing. Equalizer/Armor Plates/Accelerators are handy for physical AoEs, but useless for -ga's/magical AoEs, where you'd want mana jammers instead. or a little of each if it does both.)

Soulsoother (Whm)
Soulsoother is fairly straight forward. Damage Gauge is mandatory, Vivi-valve is if you're in abyssea (Outside of abyssea, Cure V is strong enough to heal 50% of a galka pup's HP and still have some overflow, and your puppet will spam cure VI, so vivi-valve isn't really mandatory). After that, balance your fast cast/casting time/m.acc/MP related attachments with your melee/defensive attachments based on what you're doing. If you're soloing an NM, you don't want SS meleeing, so having melee attachments on it is kind of pointless, but having extra defensive ones in case of AoEs is helpful. If you're solo/lowman grinding pages or trials, you may as well have melee attachments set and let SS melee with you for extra damage/TP to use.

Valoredge (War(/pld)) and Sharpshot (Rng):
Are both the easist and hardest to set up at the same time. Basically, you want to use the attachments in the same way you would gear as a player, but you also have to remember that puppet's have defense roughly equivalent to a naked pup of the same level (Valoredge is a bit higher because of it's natural damage redux, sharpshot takes hits like a wet paper bag), so you need to have appropriate defensive attachments set as well (see the above comment for SR).

My general go-to set ups:
Spiritreaver 
[Ice Maker]   [Loud Speaker II][Loud Speaker I][Optic Fiber] 
[Condenser]   [Mana Channeler] [Variable 1]    [Variable 2] 
[Mana Tank II][Mana Tank I]    [Variable 3]    [Variable 4] 
Variables: Rotate different attachments depending on the situation 
 - Variable 1: Auto-repair Kit I or Eraser (Eraser if the thing I'm fighting can use silence, or a really nasty debuff) 
 - Variable 2: Heat Sink or Mana Jammer II 
 - Variable 3: Mana Converter, Mana Conserver, (or Economizer, whenever I stop being lazy and actually get it) 
 - Variable 4: Mana Jammer I, Accelerator II, or Armor Plate II 
 - In 2, 3, or 4, I may throw in Turbo Charger as well, to reduce individual spell recasts 
 
Soulsoother 
[Damage Gauge][Vivi Valve]    [Optic Fiber] [Variable 1] 
[Tranquilizer][Mana Booster]  [Power Cooler][Turbo Charger] 
[Mana Tank I] [Mana Converter][Variable 2]  [Variable 3] 
Variables:  
 - Variable 1: Auto-repair Kit I or Eraser (Eraser if the thing I'm fighting can use silence, or a really nasty debuff), Alternatively: Flashbulb 
 - Variable 2-3: Either Defensive, Offensive, or one of each, depending on what I'm doing. Alternatively, Scanner to prevent annoying spamming and derpy pet antics. 
 - Turbo Charger gets thrown in for both recasts (ie: erase, cure V/VI, haste, etc) and as an offensive attachment 
 
Valoredge 
[Variable 1][Tension Spring II][Tension Spring I][Turbo Charger] 
[Variable 2][Variable 3]       [Variable 4]	 [Optic Fiber] 
[Hammermill][Barrier Module]   [Variable 5]      [Variable 6] 
Variables:  
 - Variable 1: I only set attuner if I'm fighting T+, because Attuner doesn't work unless the mob is T+. I'll usually set Strobe, Reactive Shield, or Heat Capacitor here if not attuner, depending on what I'm doing (Strobe for VE soloing, RS for derpyderping, HC for farming/trials) 
 - Variable 2-3: Like attuner, Target Marker only works vs T+, so here it's either TM+Stab2, Stab2+Stab1, Stab2+Coiler, or TM+Coiler, depending on the general evasiveness of the mobs I'm fighting (low eva = coiler, high = stabs) 
 - Variable 4: ARK2 or Eraser 
 - Variable 5-6: Variable defenses again, Armor Plate II, Accelerators (puppets have decent evasion) or Jammers, all depending on what I'm doing. 
 
Sharpshot 
[Variable 1][Tension Spring II][Turbo Charger][Scope] 
[Variable 2][Variable 3]       [Variable 4]   [Optic Fiber] 
[Variable 5][Heat Sink]        [Variable 6]   [Variable 7] 
Variables:  
 - Variable 1: Same deal with attuner here, but due to SS's fire slots, I basically just alternate attuner and tension spring I 
 - Variable 2-3: Same deal with the thunder attachments here as with VE. 
 - Variable 4: ARK2 or Eraser 
 - Variable 5: Barrage Turbine or Drum Magazine, either of which I occasionally swap with scope to have both, all depending on relative acc. 
 - Variable 6-7: Variable defenses again, Armor Plate II, Accelerators (puppets have decent evasion) or Jammers, all depending on what I'm doing. 


Things to note: Turbo Charger is always good for DD pets, and is handy for mage pets. Optic Fiber is always good by the nature of what it does, but can be left out for the sake of survivability if necessary. Don't use scanner with Spiritreaver, it has scanner built in, so it's a waste of a slot.

Anza wrote:
spiritreaverdiablos, Averter of the Apoc wrote:
You have a solid plan there Lemyr and Cam's advice to you is very good as well imo. I would only add that you may want to consider /war too. After you are more familiar with the game in general and with PUP more specifically of course.


Agreed. The standard "trifecta" is /WAR /NIN /DNC.

/NIN: The heavily defense focused sub, and is needed for some fights where shadows are a necessity (for example, an NM with nasty AoE attacks that are absorbed by Utsusemi, some solo stuff).

/WAR: The full offense focused sub. Often useful in party situations where you have healing support, and even handy in a lot of solo situations where the puppet can keep you well healed and you really don't need shadows. Also the best choice in some events (for instance, Voidwatch where you need all the DD you can get and you survive based on use of temp items).

/DNC: Respectable in most situations and has a nice mix of survivability, support, and some offense (Acc bonus, Haste Samba), so it's a nice starting point and you already have it. You really can't get away with /DNC only though - sometimes /NIN will be really needed for shadows, and sometimes /WAR will be a clearly superior choice for offense.

Beyond that:

/THF is one I get a lot of use out of lately in Dynamis, or any other situation where farming is the priority and the puppet (or a real healer) can keep you alive without your use of /NIN or /DNC. It's only for Treasure Hunter II, but that makes a pretty significant difference if you're farming for a couple hours.

/SCH is something that to me is not really essential and is sort of past its prime, but may still be somewhat effective. Main use is to sleep/nuke solo (you sleep mobs, puppet nukes em) much like a ToAU-era BLM. Can also provide some party support if really needed and you're hanging back using a mage puppet.


Pretty much agreed on the trifecta, but I'm always going to love /sch for the **** you can do with it that you can't do with /dnc or /nin, defensively, and offensively, just due to the nature of having sleep and dspel (without sacrificing an attachment slot/maneuver usage/puppet derpiness) available to you. /sch is also stronger than /dnc if you're trying to play low-man main healer, which pup can do really well, and /sch is really better than /whm for that, since all /whm has to it is haste and cure IV, while /sch gives you boosted cure II/IIIs due to skill, better MP efficiency, and access to sleep/dispel/drain. **** situational, though.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#16 May 27 2012 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I would just like to add to this conversation that 1-20 I found it much safer and easier to just throw the auto with stoneskin on at the mobs while i stood out of the way your auto can easily handle them at these levels.
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BLU 60 | NIN 45 | SMN 20 | SCH 31 | DNC 99 |
#17 May 27 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Delfibabe wrote:
I would just like to add to this conversation that 1-20 I found it much safer and easier to just throw the auto with stoneskin on at the mobs while i stood out of the way your auto can easily handle them at these levels.

If you gear right (read: you aren't naked), use a little food, and sub mnk, 1-20 will fly by on pup. The idea is to throw your puppet at one mob with stoneskin while slaughter the other. speeds exp up quite nicely. You're not as squishy as a smn, so don't stand back and wet your pantaloons while making prissy noises. Get in there and punch **** in the face, in the most FAAAAABULOUSLY badass manner possible, as is pup's purpose.

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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#18 May 29 2012 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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LMAO that post just made my day Jinte!!
#19 May 29 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:
pffffft, get used to it as safely as possible? pansy. I got used to pup by throwing it face first into EM-T mobs back when it was first released and sucked floppy donkey **** /exaggeratingoldfart


Hahahaha. Yeah, I remember being unable to get into a party so I just decided to solo Erucas in Wajaom Woodlands for exp for like 2 levels in the 60s. That's a special brand of insanity, but it did teach me something few people know (Incinerate is much stronger on the first use by a mob, and decreases in potency substantially each additional time the mob uses it). So yeah, /getoffmylawn ;)

Quote:
Oh, and VE's not a pld, btw, no matter what shield bash wants you to think. VE's a warrior.


Yup. Though to be fair, they've done a lot more to increase VE's survivability in the past couple years. Stout Servant, PDT- magian claws (still only half as good as a BST dual-wielding PDT- axes though), improvements to defensive attachments, improvements to Repair/Oils, etc. It still doesn't hold hate well though, and it can't toss cures - so it's missing a couple of really key aspects of a real PLD. But I agree that it's closer in nature to a WAR (which can in some cases tank stuff just like old-school WARs used to), and that for the most part the shield is more decorative than functional.

Lady Jinte wrote:
My general go-to set ups:


Read up on these suggestions - all of this advice is pretty much spot-on, and perfect reasoning behind the choices. I can't disagree with anything listed.

One other situational set: any time you're trying to farm in Dyna, automaton JAs from Strobe, Flashbulb, and Disruptor count as WS procs, so equip them if you're targeting any WS proc mobs. I personally do Dyna with PUP/THF, Soolsoother puppet, and fight DC mobs because (a) they last long enough to survive until proc, (b) they drop more Forgotten items, and (c) way less competition than the sometimes cutthroat wars for EP JA-proc mobs.

Disruptor in general is pretty handy any time you don't have another person with dispel with you, it's one of my go-to "filler" attachments lately.

Edited, May 29th 2012 3:22pm by Anza
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#20 May 29 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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just wanted to say /sch sub job is very useful when you want or need your pet to main tank. a good example on most of my pup solo videos i use the Valoredge Frame on ironclad or other mobs with deadly moves. also back then subed /sch while soloing FoV or low lvl pts while using DD pet going all out on things. spaming drain etc with no downtime:). also /sch very useful in pvp
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