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Automaton preferences for soloing?Follow

#1 Apr 13 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Im just returning after a six month (Skyrim) break, and had a few questions about how the different 'matons are used these days while soloing.

Before the patch on most low tier NM's and under i would use the SS while subbing /dnc so i could light SC VS and AS, this was somewhat dangerous but everything i fought normally melted before it got two bad. Then fighting harder tier NM's i would normally use the WHM bot with /nin sub and just grind the heck out of whatever i was fighting.

After the update im curious how people have been going about setting up their pets, i know everything is situational, but have the valoredge/RDM pet become more useful for solo play?

Basically i just want to know how to best maximize DD output without too much a risk of completely wiping. Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Fantus
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#2 Apr 17 2012 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Soulsoother for me, not only does it have the best healing support with Cure VI spam (and Regen on DC+ mobs), erasing status effects, and Protect/Shell, but it has a HUGE boost to the master's DD by being able to case HASTE (puppet can keep you hasted pretty much continuously). AI has been vastly improved with automaton prioritizing cures and quickly removing debuffs. I'd much rather focus on all-out master DD with Soulsoother as opposed to using a puppet that adds more damage while sacrificing master haste buff, more master subjob flexibility, and the security of better curing/status removal.

As for subjob, with Soulsoother usually being plenty for healing power you can use whatever sub you want:
- /WAR for damage
- /THF for Treasure Hunter II
- /NIN for shadows (and minor things like ninjutsu Abyssea procs, sneak/invis)
- /DNC for extra healing insurance, Dyna JA procs, and some utility (Haste Samba never hurts, JA sneak/invis can be nice for running around). I use /DNC a lot less these days though, the automaton can handle healing just fine in most cases so /DNC becomes something to use for certain NMs where Violent Flourish stun is helpful, where you might want extra healing insurance from certain NMs, for fast JA sneak/invis for running around somewhere, etc. Or for Dyna, but I personally prefer PUP/THF if I'm solo in Dyna and I just do WS procs (H2H, puppet WS, Strobe, Flashbulb, Disruptor) on DC mobs with little competition from the BST/DNC army.

Oh, and I never bother gearing for evasion on PUP - focus purely on DD gear, evasion on a good DD piece is just a nice bonus. You can eat the hits and the puppet can Cure VI, no need to reduce your damage output and slow down kills. I can't even think of a practical situation any more where you'd be fighting something dangerous enough to require evading (and where it's even effective to evade - i.e. no deadly JAs/-ga spells), and if I ever did solo something where evasion was that important I'd be on NIN, DNC, or THF anyway.

Edited, Apr 17th 2012 8:18pm by Anza
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#3 Apr 22 2012 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Anza wrote:

Oh, and I never bother gearing for evasion on PUP - focus purely on DD gear, evasion on a good DD piece is just a nice bonus. You can eat the hits and the puppet can Cure VI, no need to reduce your damage output and slow down kills. I can't even think of a practical situation any more where you'd be fighting something dangerous enough to require evading (and where it's even effective to evade - i.e. no deadly JAs/-ga spells), and if I ever did solo something where evasion was that important I'd be on NIN, DNC, or THF anyway.


While I agree with you in most of the cases, an evasion set is in my opinion pretty important still. Against 1-3 mobs (in Dyna), there's no need to use anything other than the pure DD gear, but an evasion set is extremely useful in case of a bad pull that ends up linking 4-5+ mobs. It's the difference between ending with a bunch of currency and kissing the floor mid-run, with the subsequent weakness etc.
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#4 Apr 23 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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TaimMeich wrote:
While I agree with you in most of the cases, an evasion set is in my opinion pretty important still. Against 1-3 mobs (in Dyna), there's no need to use anything other than the pure DD gear, but an evasion set is extremely useful in case of a bad pull that ends up linking 4-5+ mobs. It's the difference between ending with a bunch of currency and kissing the floor mid-run, with the subsequent weakness etc.


That's about the most reasonable situation I can think of, but I still don't think I really agree. Going into full evasion mode just means you take longer to kill mobs, and spend a longer time with a bunch of mobs beating on you where a couple lucky crits can take you out. When I get a link I prefer to try to kill excess mobs ASAP, and Cure VI spam plus emergency Role Reversal seems to generally do the trick for me. Even if you did consider an evasion macro, I would probably just use a couple of strong evasion pieces that still retain DD benefit (say, Ocelot Trousers, or Ocelomeh Headpiece) as opposed to a full-on max evasion set.

If it's a truly huge link, the delay in killing stuff in eva gear (if you even survive) is often going to add up to a few minutes wasted anyway, lessening the blow of just dying quickly/safely, RRing, and dealing with 5min weakness. And the worst case scenario is that you waste a couple minutes TRYING to fight through a 4-5 mob link, then they kill you anyway. Then you have the full 5min weakness AND wasted time from trying unsuccessfully to kill the mobs. Almost better in my mind to accept you screwed up, die quickly/safely, RR up and get back to work. If possible, use the downtime productively - change camps depending of time of day, hunt down other TEs if you aren't already at 5/5, etc. True, a death may cause a little hit to your farming totals, but we're talking about dealing with weakness for 1/24th of a 2hour run - not really a catastrophic loss.

Also, don't link 4-5+ mobs, etc. :) Generally my only PUP Dyna deaths come from linking mage beastmen and eating spells. Nothing you can do PUP/THF but hope you survive the nuke, -ga wrecks /NIN, and /DNC you at least have a better chance since you can Violent Flourish to stun spells, but you're often riding that timer pretty hard.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2012 6:01pm by Anza
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#5 Apr 24 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
Personally I have been revamping my evasion build to keep what anza is saying in mind and come up with a build that keeps me at haste cap while giving me the boost I need in evasion to survive. Ignoring accessories for now cause I haven't decided if they are worth it(it's worth swapping out, my rings since my tp rings need some work. Darn you for eluding me epona's)

head: Ocolemeh +1
Body:Alcd. Harness +1
Hands: Cirque +2
Legs:Ocelot
Feet: Athos
Waist: Twilight
Neck: Tierecel

ACC: 22
Eva: 26
Sb 8
AGI: 29
haste 26
Dex:21

Leaving back rings and earrings open for whatever. Coming in with 40ish eva with a nice boost to Subtle blow(Don't forget agi boosts that now too) while maintaining yourself at haste cap with 32 acc and some double attack from twlight. Your DPS will go down but it won't take a swan dive. Giving what I believe to be a proper balance between defensive and offensive when needed.
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#6 Apr 24 2012 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, well, my evasion macro doesn't use things like Theia's Hairpin, but rather stuff with less evasion but higher DD potential (Ocelomeh headpiece +1, in my case). I maintain 21% haste in the evasion set, while considerably increasing the total evasion (+40 from the TP set). Evasion set is for the moments when Cure VI spam CAN'T keep up with the healing if I don't reduce the average number of attacks received via evading. It's pretty specific, but reduces the chances of screweing up, and doesn't reduce killspeed that much. After all, "killing faster" isn't an option when you are already killing as fast as you can.

For reference: TP set and evasion set.


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#7 Apr 25 2012 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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Evasion sets are not nearly as useful as you make them out to be, because Evasion caps at 80% (and by the same extent, accuracy floors at 20%, which is why level -1 and 0 bunnies in ronf can still hit you at 99. It's physically impossible for anything in the game to have a hit rate worse than 1/5, regardless of shadows, since if utsusemi procs, it means you got hit), and it's not hard for us to hit that cap most of the time, with only a few pieces of gear. The only time a full blown evasion set is useful is if you're fighting an NM with stupidly high accuracy, or that has like, 10 levels on you. You shouldn't need more than 1-2 pieces of Eva gear to have an acceptable dodge rate on DC mobs in dynamis, for example, and that same gear will do you the same amount of good vs 1 or 10 mobs if they're all the same level range, the only thing that will make a difference is the eva bonus you get from signet, if you even get that in dynamis. AGI claws, Pink Doublet, and any of the thousand 2% haste 5 eva shoes we have is plenty for **** near everything, without sacrificing much at all in the way of damage (though pink doublet vs farsetto +2 is a bit of a loss, depending on how much haste you have and what you're doing.) I haven't done neo-dynamis, personally, so I can't really speak for anything other than estimates, but I would assume that the level difference between the low end and high end mobs isn't extreme enough to warrent needing more than 1-2 extra pieces. the +60 eva we get from Eva bonus IV is pretty huge.

As for which frame I use solo, it depends on what I'm doing. If I'm soloing an NM, or soloing exp, probably soulsoother, unless SS'll be -na spammy, and even that's not to bad now with the split recast timers. If I'm grinding EP **** trials, either Stormwaker or valoredge, depending on what the mob in question is, what level it is, and how easy/hard they are to kill. Haste and Cure VI won't speed up my kills as fast as Valoredge or Haste and T4 Nukes will Smiley: laugh
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#8 Apr 28 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, when I'm soloing, 99% of the time I have the whm puppet in full healer mode. Nothing else will let you pull off the stunts pup is capable of. Make sure to equip Disruptor.

On the sj front, when I'm solo I tend to do /dnc for the erase, stun, sneak/invis, accuracy bonus II, and a ranged claim. I usually don't haste samba. I'm not entirely sure that 35 tp for 60 seconds of 5% haste is worth it even if you're punching the entire time and can use it before engaging the mob (two things that rarely happen). I could be wrong.

As a disclaimer, I never got on board with pup/dnc + sharpshot back when it was popular. If I want more damage and I'm solo, I go pup/war + whm. Both work.

Best of luck!
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#9 May 01 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Lately in Abyssea I find myself /DNC and using Comedie on soulsouther set outside the AOE. Many of the NMs I have soloed (Fauth, Amuluk,Carabosse,Dvalinn,Durinn etc) like to spam -aga spells making /NIN less than useful. As Jinte mentions, our evasion is high enough to avoid most of their attacks. Most of their melee attacks are weak(how much attack does your BLM have?)

Being able to Healing Waltz some of the status effects away quickly gets us back in business and allows the auto to focus more on tasty cures and enfeebles which are needed. In the case of Cackle and Bilgestorm this gives us 3 "Erases" (combined with Eraser) as removing the magic defense down quickly is key to beating the Dvergers. Lastly, while not a guaranteed proc, Violent Flourish still lands well enough to mention and preventing any damage in the first place is still prime.

When soloing casters I use unconventional atma (well, at least from a DD view). Mainly I use MM(INT for me, fresh for Comedie), Future Fabulous(MDB) and usually Kirin's(more tasty INT, AGI and MACC for enfeebs). This is all about mitigating damage from the nukes by raising INT and MDB to the point that the nukes land for substantially less(remember trying to nuke Kirin?), allowing me to live through the battle and stay ahead of the curing. An occasional Curing Waltz III is there if I need it as well. When I WS (usually only after the NM uses a TP move and I see I can make TP before I need it again), I use Shijin Spiral exclusively as the plague that can and does proc helps to reduce tp gain of the NM reducing those special attacks.

For these, it's not about killing fast, it's all about being the last one standing, and a win is a win.
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#10 May 01 2012 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hi all! I've been slowly leveling pup lately bouncing around in Campaign, WoE, and Dom Ops. I'm currently lv86 and had a question related to this thread. OK, so I haven't really messed around with SS yet. I usually use storm walker for most things except WoE where I go blm pup. I was wondering if SS is even worth using if the mobs your fighting aren't using status effects against you. Storm Walker keeps Haste, Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, and Phalanx on me at all times(for the most part). Plus tier IV nukes and a hand full of enfeebles. I'm basically wondering if SW is the go to frame for normal mobs or non enfeebling nms. And roll with SS on the tough stuff?
#11 May 01 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#12 May 01 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Re: MP efficiency, Soulsoother does have Regen IV when you're fighting DC+ mobs, which improves it somewhat in MP efficiency. For me this has a very practical application in Dyna (my most frequent use of solo PUP) since I generally farm the DC mob families during WS proc time (for many reasons: DC mobs live long enough to proc between me and Strobe/Flashbulb/Disruptor, are less camped, and drop more forgotten items). I also go PUP/THF for more drops, so I have less defensive tools than I would /NIN or /DNC, meaning that sometimes a Cure V/VI is really needed.

It's still a matter of having to deactivate/reactivate to refill MP, but you have to do it a little bit less thanks to Regen's efficient healing. I usually toss a power cooler on too, even with no ice maneuvers that's a 10% MP reduction.
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#13 May 01 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Anza wrote:
Re: MP efficiency, Soulsoother does have Regen IV when you're fighting DC+ mobs, which improves it somewhat in MP efficiency. For me this has a very practical application in Dyna (my most frequent use of solo PUP) since I generally farm the DC mob families during WS proc time (for many reasons: DC mobs live long enough to proc between me and Strobe/Flashbulb/Disruptor, are less camped, and drop more forgotten items). I also go PUP/THF for more drops, so I have less defensive tools than I would /NIN or /DNC, meaning that sometimes a Cure V/VI is really needed.

It's still a matter of having to deactivate/reactivate to refill MP, but you have to do it a little bit less thanks to Regen's efficient healing. I usually toss a power cooler on too, even with no ice maneuvers that's a 10% MP reduction.
I always forget that SE gave us Regen IV finally.... and that the puppet can cast regen. Smiley: laugh
I have no idea why I forget, though Smiley: glare
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#14 May 01 2012 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I see, I never considered or factored in Regent.(mainly because I forgot SS has it) I've only ever used SS once I believe just to check it out. Puppet master is kind of a new hobby job for me which keeps me from being totally bored with this game. I most likely won't be using it for much, just for fun. If I'm going to solo nms I go blu since its my best geared job and what Ive considered my main for something like the last five years. But I appreciate all info. Personally, I like to take time to learn the aspects of a job even if its a hobby job. Which is why I never fc any jobs.
#15 May 02 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Anza wrote:
Re: MP efficiency, Soulsoother does have Regen IV when you're fighting DC+ mobs, which improves it somewhat in MP efficiency. For me this has a very practical application in Dyna (my most frequent use of solo PUP) since I generally farm the DC mob families during WS proc time (for many reasons: DC mobs live long enough to proc between me and Strobe/Flashbulb/Disruptor, are less camped, and drop more forgotten items). I also go PUP/THF for more drops, so I have less defensive tools than I would /NIN or /DNC, meaning that sometimes a Cure V/VI is really needed.

It's still a matter of having to deactivate/reactivate to refill MP, but you have to do it a little bit less thanks to Regen's efficient healing. I usually toss a power cooler on too, even with no ice maneuvers that's a 10% MP reduction.


Rate up. Why do I keep forgetting about that, in particular for dyna .
Soloing pup/thf in dyna pricing /ws mobs has worked out very well for me so far. Expect to see a red head following me in there from here on out.
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#16 May 02 2012 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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RaiseIII wrote:
Anza wrote:
Re: MP efficiency, Soulsoother does have Regen IV when you're fighting DC+ mobs, which improves it somewhat in MP efficiency. For me this has a very practical application in Dyna (my most frequent use of solo PUP) since I generally farm the DC mob families during WS proc time (for many reasons: DC mobs live long enough to proc between me and Strobe/Flashbulb/Disruptor, are less camped, and drop more forgotten items). I also go PUP/THF for more drops, so I have less defensive tools than I would /NIN or /DNC, meaning that sometimes a Cure V/VI is really needed.

It's still a matter of having to deactivate/reactivate to refill MP, but you have to do it a little bit less thanks to Regen's efficient healing. I usually toss a power cooler on too, even with no ice maneuvers that's a 10% MP reduction.


Rate up. Why do I keep forgetting about that, in particular for dyna .
Soloing pup/thf in dyna pricing /ws mobs has worked out very well for me so far. Expect to see a red head following me in there from here on out.
white head gets regen, not red Smiley: dubious
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#17 May 02 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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How many coins you guys get /thf? On let's say, valk? And would you say tarutaru sash with th would be good also? I'm just curious because I typically go /war and kill dcs and was wondering if it'd be worth the trade off?
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#18 May 02 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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I'm getting between 160 and 190 coins per Qufim run, /THF without TH sash, targetting EP mobs. I've tried Bubu a bit, and although it has slightly better camps, the TE are too far apart, you waste too much time doing the statues.

Edited, May 2nd 2012 10:48pm by TaimMeich
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#19 May 02 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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It was the stoneskin and phalanx that I was thinking of in my warped mind when I saw regen. Don't ask me why I think that way I still can't figure it out myself.

On a Dyna-Dunes run I solo 100-130 coins on EP mobs and average half dozen forbidden touches. I leave maybe 3-5 mobs a run that I just can't seem to proc. Understand that I am not hard core blasting like I could be. Dyna is a bit of down time for me, and while I am saving for relic (stage 4 atm), I am not working hard at it. If I do DC mobs I end up with about 100 coins and twice the touches. What I do like is having my pick of mobs as everyone else in there clamors over the /ja mobs.
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#20 May 02 2012 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm seems like a toss up to me, because I average about 130 as /war, so maybe I'll just got for tarutaru sash and have the best of both worlds. Anyone know if the loss of 7%haste is worth it for th1?
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#21 May 03 2012 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Camwin wrote:
Hmmm seems like a toss up to me, because I average about 130 as /war, so maybe I'll just got for tarutaru sash and have the best of both worlds. Anyone know if the loss of 7%haste is worth it for th1?


Just macro the sash in for the first hit, and swap back twilight for the rest of the mob.
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#22 May 03 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Oh? It is guaranteed to proc on first hit?
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#23 May 03 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Any TH you have applies on the first hit. The only thing that has a chance associated is increasing the TH from the initial value, and that can only done by THF mains and RNG with Bounty Shot.
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