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New Automaton AIFollow

#1 Sep 14 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It might be a little early to mention this since the September version update hasn’t even taken place yet, but the development team has already begun preparing for level 99.

To get a glimpse of the direction we are headed with automaton adjustments, the below are the main concepts:

1. Revamp all attachment effects
2. Revamp automaton AI
3. Addition of job abilities that will cure automaton status ailments

We will be bringing you all the detailed info some time after the September version update on the forum and test server.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14578-Automaton-AI-Customization?p=197666#post197666
#2 Sep 14 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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is it bad that it depresses me to see that.

Mostly because we already knew all that, and all they did was confirm it is another 3-6 months away?

They still havent even added any new attachments this round for the climb to 95 on test :-(

Then again they never even said what the new 'daily reward' is gonna be that was on the road map for this update. So not excited for 6 more months of bcnm and voidwatch :-(

#3 Sep 14 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
is it bad that it depresses me to see that.

Mostly because we already knew all that, and all they did was confirm it is another 3-6 months away?

They still havent even added any new attachments this round for the climb to 95 on test :-(

Then again they never even said what the new 'daily reward' is gonna be that was on the road map for this update. So not excited for 6 more months of bcnm and voidwatch :-(



At least they're acknowledging us I suppose.

If they're adding more attachments, I'd kind of like the automatons elemental capacity and slots to grow a little bit as we level. Maybe even make it an add on quest, like how we got new frames and heads. Kind of like how BLU gets more blue magic points, and more spell slots as they level.

It sucks getting new decent attachments (e.g. power cooler, viv-valve) but not using them because we don't have room, which ultimately makes them not so useful.
#4 Sep 14 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
what depresses me is that we have to wait till 99 for the attachment and AI changes :/
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#5 Sep 15 2011 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
is it bad that it depresses me to see that.

Mostly because we already knew all that, and all they did was confirm it is another 3-6 months away?


I get the disappointment in not having something really exciting announced now, and having to wait for later. But this still sounds like pretty fantastic news to me.

Did we know they would make AI changes? This is the first confirmation I've seen, and isn't that the one thing we've all been asking about for years? I'm glad to see it being discussed now by the developers, and frankly I'm fine with having to wait longer if it means they finally get puppet AI right (maybe looking at feedback from the testing server).

Would you have rather they said nothing at all? I know I prefer hearing about what's coming up beyond the immediate updates (much like the long term roadmaps). This is certainly Camate's dilemma with even telling the community now, as he addresses by starting his post with "It might be a little early to mention this" - he knows people are going to complain because they don't get stuff NOW. Complaining about changes being too far away only encourages the devs to remain silent as to their plans until they're near release, which I don't see as a good thing. Both for informational purposes AND to let the community have a more open dialogue with the devs as the process continues.

Quote:
They still havent even added any new attachments this round for the climb to 95 on test :-(


I also can't understand complaints about not getting attachments. They've already added 8 new attachments since 90 cap (4 in May, 4 in July), and PUP was one of the only jobs to get anything job-specific in that July mini-update. They could have just held the July attachments back for the major update...

Really, we were sitting at 54 attachments for a LONG time before these most recent 8 were released. And even the previous round of 7th attachments for the non light/dark elements came two at a time, slowly. We've not seen this many new attachments in ages. And honestly, I'm more interested in seeing revamped existing attachments instead of more new stuff that we don't have elemental capacity for.

Except I do want an 8th light/dark attachments, just for consistency's sake with the other elements ;) Maybe those will eventually show up as something really cool for the last hurrah of new attachments.
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#6 Sep 15 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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We did not specifically know about the ai. It was mentioned a few times in the JP forum, it just never got translated. They are just as frustrated as we are when it comes to na's vs cures, and silencing crabs.

The disapointment is more in the waiting, and i would have prefered them to say nothing. Since they already mentioned all 3 of those points already. It was just restating old news.

The attachment thing was more in reference to, we are getting cooldown (completly worthless ability) and thats it this update. No new attachments no new ws. I will say no new spells, because we are getting the ones we expected to and not stuff like comet or new spells for rdm.

I am kinda hoping they are leaving a lot of items out of the test server just to suprise people.
#7 Sep 15 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
The disapointment is more in the waiting, and i would have prefered them to say nothing. Since they already mentioned all 3 of those points already. It was just restating old news.


I guess we can agree to disagree here, I think it's always a good thing to hear them stating that AI will get adjustments. Even if there's a wait, I'd rather hear them keep saying it for months and give me confidence that it's coming eventually than to not speak up at all. I've been dealing with **** AI since 2006, I can handle waiting a few extra months.

Quote:
I am kinda hoping they are leaving a lot of items out of the test server just to suprise people.


Now that I can agree with. I do think dumping everything on the test server takes a lot of the magic out of update day.
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#8 Sep 15 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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I really want the -na spell and cure thing fixed, but I'd love it if the Automaton used appropriate cures as well. Cure V or VI when I'm missing less than a Cure IV's worth of hp is a bit much... Maybe that could put the vivi-valve to good use (I don't know why, but I try to deactivate and activate as little as possible. I like to horde my timer and my oils. I'm that girl who will be fighting a final boss in a game, and still refuse to use a megalixir because they are rare...which is stupid since there's nothing after!)
#9 Sep 15 2011 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Annalise wrote:
I really want the -na spell and cure thing fixed, but I'd love it if the Automaton used appropriate cures as well. Cure V or VI when I'm missing less than a Cure IV's worth of hp is a bit much... Maybe that could put the vivi-valve to good use (I don't know why, but I try to deactivate and activate as little as possible. I like to horde my timer and my oils. I'm that girl who will be fighting a final boss in a game, and still refuse to use a megalixir because they are rare...which is stupid since there's nothing after!)


lol im like that too annelise, and i agree with anza,even tho i still feel this announcement is too little too late-ish, they should be implementing those changes soon in the test server at least, and i'll be kind of happy.
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#10 Sep 23 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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maybe off topic, but i'd like to put it out there and see what people think:

lvl 99 pup merit abilities:

elemental slot upgrades

automation regen
automation refresh
automation regain

maybe meritable blm head spells

do you think these things are viable?
#11 Sep 23 2011 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Neomaxis wrote:
maybe off topic, but i'd like to put it out there and see what people think:

lvl 99 pup merit abilities:

elemental slot upgrades

automation regen
automation refresh
automation regain

maybe meritable blm head spells

do you think these things are viable?


elemental slot upgrades
-- oh god, yes yes yes yes yes... wait... actually how would this work... /theorycraftingstart

automation regen
automation refresh
automation regain
-- nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thank you. We've got plenty of this, and we shouldn't have to waste valuable merit options to get extra

maybe meritable blm head spells
-- Depending on the spell. In case anyone even so much as sneezes the thought of adding AM, though, I've readied the torches and pitchforks.

Theory Crafting: My Ideal T3 merits:

Job Ability: Tag-Team
Duration: 0:45 Recast: 10:00~5:00
Executes a tag-team ability with the automaton. Effect of ability depends on current automaton frame equipped. Recast reduced by 1:15 and
ability effectiveness increased per additional upgrade.

Harlequin Frame: Comedian's Ire:
- The automaton sacrifices a portion of its HP to damage and stun it's target. The amount of HP used and the success/duration of the stun effect are increased by 10% per additional upgrade. (Deals damage equivalent to the HP lost; base is 10%, 5/5 is 50%. Whether the stun is success/duration depends on which would be more realistic. Also; ROCKET HEADBUTT.)

Valoredge Frame: Misdirection
- All damage directed towards the player will be redirected towards the automaton for the duration of the ability, or up to x% of the automaton's max HP (Base rate 50%, +10% per upgrade. Max 90%). Basically a ghetto-cover ability.

Sharpshot Frame: Finale Cannon
- Roots both the automaton and the player in place while significantly reduces the delay between automaton ranged attacks (reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds), but prevents the player from recovering HP while active. Reduction in attack delay increased by 3 seconds per additional upgrade (5/5: 3 seconds) and increases automaton TP gain (+10 store TP per upgrade).

Stormwaker Frame: Egotism
- All damage directed toward the automaton will be redirected towards the player for the duration of the ability, and the automaton's spell casting will be unable to be the automaton's spell casting delay will be significantly reduced. Delay reduction is increased per additional upgrade (base -3 seconds, -15 at 5/5)

Job Trait: Elemental Capacity Increase: +1 to all elements per upgrade, max +5

Note: It may be necessary to cap the max elemental capacity for a given element at something like 10, because atm my testing is showing that different elemental capacities do have some effect on overload and burden, based on either the number of attachments of that type fit, or the total slots used. I haven't narrowed it down beyond that yet, it's a real pain in the **** to test accurately. My gut is leaning towards the latter, though. I'm also still not sure whether the correlation gives a positive or negative effect, but that annoying fact is leading me towards the possibility of both. I know that for each head, the overload threshold is LOWER by about the same amount as Buffoon's collar/AF gloves increase it (either one will negate the effect, but will also be negated) for maneuvers that head has no elemental slots for (ice for valoredge, light for harlequin, etc). If I haven't already posted my testing on that bit, I will next time I data purge and update my overload testing thread. /endtangent

Also, other stuff that I'm to lazy to think of right now.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#12 Sep 24 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Default
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My oppinion:

REDO pup from scratch, nothing scales well and there is no great sense in achievement when it comes to attachments.

1)Make elemental capacity scale with level (think blue mage set points) where at level 1 you are basically limited to 5 attachments and depending on the frame, only certain elements (aka no turbo charger on sharpshot at level 1). Up to level 99 where you have 20 slots and probably +4 to all current elemental stats per frame.

This makes it so you aren't using the same 20 attachments sense day 1, and at level 99 you can do silly things like use every ice attachment on the blm frame.

2) Add rare/ex attachments that are +1 versions of their current counter part for group content, and +2 versions from raid content. AKA turbo charger +1 from high level nyzul. instead of 5/15/20/25 its 15/25/30/35 and replaces the current turbo charger. With the same elemental cost. The+2 would obviously be 20/30/35/40 (cap magic haste).

This makes it so there finally is a difference between joe the pup who just groups and john the pup who raids.

3) Add quest ws/spells for the pet. Pet must close 200 light/dark ws with the master to learn. (goes without saying, but fix the ws system as well)

4)Add +1/2 frames/heads (more hp/mp, faster attacks, built in DA/counter/fast cast etc)

5)Make attachments % based instead of static. +20 eva at level 1 is sweet, but at 99 its gonna be meh. It should be +1/3/5/10% evasion. It might mean less evasion at lower levels, but at higher levels its actually adding way more than current. This goes for all attachments.

Obligatory no duh section
6) Fix the ai
7) Repair oils to 99, and useable from inventory
8) KI based animators (so we can equip weapons/ammo with stats)
9) Fix the ai
10) Fix the ai

With that i end my 5 am /dream session.
11) Fix the ai
#13 Sep 24 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
dustinfoley wrote:
My oppinion:

REDO pup from scratch, nothing scales well and there is no great sense in achievement when it comes to attachments.

1)Make elemental capacity scale with level (think blue mage set points) where at level 1 you are basically limited to 5 attachments and depending on the frame, only certain elements (aka no turbo charger on sharpshot at level 1). Up to level 99 where you have 20 slots and probably +4 to all current elemental stats per frame.

This makes it so you aren't using the same 20 attachments sense day 1, and at level 99 you can do silly things like use every ice attachment on the blm frame.

2) Add rare/ex attachments that are +1 versions of their current counter part for group content, and +2 versions from raid content. AKA turbo charger +1 from high level nyzul. instead of 5/15/20/25 its 15/25/30/35 and replaces the current turbo charger. With the same elemental cost. The+2 would obviously be 20/30/35/40 (cap magic haste).

This makes it so there finally is a difference between joe the pup who just groups and john the pup who raids.

3) Add quest ws/spells for the pet. Pet must close 200 light/dark ws with the master to learn. (goes without saying, but fix the ws system as well)

4)Add +1/2 frames/heads (more hp/mp, faster attacks, built in DA/counter/fast cast etc)


5)Make attachments % based instead of static. +20 eva at level 1 is sweet, but at 99 its gonna be meh. It should be +1/3/5/10% evasion. It might mean less evasion at lower levels, but at higher levels its actually adding way more than current. This goes for all attachments.

Obligatory no duh section
6) Fix the ai
7) Repair oils to 99, and useable from inventory
8) KI based animators (so we can equip weapons/ammo with stats)
9) Fix the ai
10) Fix the ai

With that i end my 5 am /dream session.
11) Fix the ai



1.) I agree with
2.)While getting our ammo slot back would be awesome. When has pup suddenly become a job that doesn't have better gear from "Harder" higher tier nms?
3.) No to new weaponskills (besides mage frame). Also why would we have to work 4-5 times harder for our weaponskills then every other weaponskill quest in the game.(Assuming floor 100)
4.) Why add plus twos when you already suggested scaling?
5.)ok

7 is fine but I wonder why you feel to repeat yourself again on the KI animators.

Edited, Sep 24th 2011 8:56am by Laxedrane
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#14 Sep 24 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:


1.) I agree with
2.)While getting our ammo slot back would be awesome. When has pup suddenly become a job that doesn't have better gear from "Harder" higher tier nms?
3.) No to new weaponskills (besides mage frame). Also why would we have to work 4-5 times harder for our weaponskills then every other weaponskill quest in the game.(Assuming floor 100)
4.) Why add plus twos when you already suggested scaling?
5.)ok

7 is fine but I wonder why you feel to repeat yourself again on the KI animators.

Edited, Sep 24th 2011 8:56am by Laxedrane



2) When HAS pup been a job that has gotten good loot from 'harder' mobs?
ToAU? Nope, we got a ton of mage gear and animator +1
Abyssea? Nope, everyone has pretty much the same gear sense its all single group content.
Voidwatch? um, outside the new level 95 bp, nada
This was more along the lines of "black belt" type gear for other jobs.

3) This is just your opinion, and I respect that. I just was thinking at 99, they said there would be a final WS for each weapon type, and for a level 99 weapon skill I would like it to be along these lines. I dont want another empy/relic ws where only weapon holders get it. Mythic had it right imho. And a level 99 ws for all 3 pets really wouldnt bother me if it was more powerful and we had to unlock it.

4) Why add +1/2 when it scales? Is that a real question? I gave an example...
Turbo charger 5/15/20/25 +1 15/25/30/35 +2 20/30/35/40
EVA +1/3/5/10% +1 3/5/10/15 +2 5/10/15/20%

+10% eva is way nicer than +20 (flat) evasion at 99, and if you have the +2 20% evasion is even nicer and is **** for a rare/ex attachment from raid content.

I can give more examples if you would like, but i thought this was a pretty obvious one.

7) Um, its almost completely independent. It was more along the lines of always being able to repair even if oil isnt in the slot. Just have it default to using the highest tier oil. That and who doesn't want oil to stack to 99.


All in all, pretty fair responses, and I hope I cleared up my oppinions
#15 Sep 25 2011 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
dustinfoley wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:


1.) I agree with
2.)While getting our ammo slot back would be awesome. When has pup suddenly become a job that doesn't have better gear from "Harder" higher tier nms?
3.) No to new weaponskills (besides mage frame). Also why would we have to work 4-5 times harder for our weaponskills then every other weaponskill quest in the game.(Assuming floor 100)
4.) Why add plus twos when you already suggested scaling?
5.)ok

7 is fine but I wonder why you feel to repeat yourself again on the KI animators.

Edited, Sep 24th 2011 8:56am by Laxedrane



2) When HAS pup been a job that has gotten good loot from 'harder' mobs?
ToAU? Nope, we got a ton of mage gear and animator +1
Abyssea? Nope, everyone has pretty much the same gear sense its all single group content.
Voidwatch? um, outside the new level 95 bp, nada
This was more along the lines of "black belt" type gear for other jobs.

3) This is just your opinion, and I respect that. I just was thinking at 99, they said there would be a final WS for each weapon type, and for a level 99 weapon skill I would like it to be along these lines. I dont want another empy/relic ws where only weapon holders get it. Mythic had it right imho. And a level 99 ws for all 3 pets really wouldnt bother me if it was more powerful and we had to unlock it.

4) Why add +1/2 when it scales? Is that a real question? I gave an example...
Turbo charger 5/15/20/25 +1 15/25/30/35 +2 20/30/35/40
EVA +1/3/5/10% +1 3/5/10/15 +2 5/10/15/20%

+10% eva is way nicer than +20 (flat) evasion at 99, and if you have the +2 20% evasion is even nicer and is **** for a rare/ex attachment from raid content.

I can give more examples if you would like, but i thought this was a pretty obvious one.

7) Um, its almost completely independent. It was more along the lines of always being able to repair even if oil isnt in the slot. Just have it default to using the highest tier oil. That and who doesn't want oil to stack to 99.


All in all, pretty fair responses, and I hope I cleared up my oppinions


So let's see nothing from ToAU.

So, Usakane and Enkidu(Fantastic gear for it's time) don't count?

Abyssea? Burts don't count?

Voidwatch I don't know the full list of it's drop contents but I know the gear that's clearing from there coming out has some very nice options from tough nms.

Other jobs have an item that is equivalent to what black belt does for monk. Job exclusive? Still The best in the slot even after 20 levels? One of the most time consuming pieces coming from at least 2 reasonably challenging nms at 75? With drop rates and over camping so bad that they had to redesign the whole system just to cater to these problems?

Man I gotta go pop over to the whm and sch forums and get re-educated on the gear there. I had no idea either job had supremely powerful pieces that were job exclusive with stats that blow anything out of the water for almost all jobs comparable to them while being job exclusive. Man I must of miss when all 18 other jobs got the items you speak of!

4.)What I am saying is that I understand your point in have a pup at higher levels to have higher proficiencies and effects from attachments and elemental limits but I feel it's extremely redundant to have both.

Also I get the distinct impression from your first post that you seem to think that adding gear from harder nms will help to differentiate bad pups from good pups more?
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#16 Sep 25 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Default
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Burts? really? Maybe back when it was 10 tp regain, but in its current state no.

Usukane I'll give you, but not enkindu. It was far from fantastic for anything other then a few pieces of WS gear. How many mage sets have pup been on simply because the developers code pup as 'light cloth' and then assign 'light cloth' to mage states.

I wont belabor my point as I see yours and I dont think I can convinces you on the need/ appropriateness of having +1 (group) and +2 (raid) attachments.

#17 Sep 25 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
dustinfoley wrote:
Burts? really? Maybe back when it was 10 tp regain, but in its current state no.

Usukane I'll give you, but not enkindu. It was far from fantastic for anything other then a few pieces of WS gear. How many mage sets have pup been on simply because the developers code pup as 'light cloth' and then assign 'light cloth' to mage states.

I wont belabor my point as I see yours and I dont think I can convinces you on the need/ appropriateness of having +1 (group) and +2 (raid) attachments.



Enkidu harness was an awesome TP piece, you should feel bad.
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#18 Sep 25 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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itege wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
Burts? really? Maybe back when it was 10 tp regain, but in its current state no.

Usukane I'll give you, but not enkindu. It was far from fantastic for anything other then a few pieces of WS gear. How many mage sets have pup been on simply because the developers code pup as 'light cloth' and then assign 'light cloth' to mage states.

I wont belabor my point as I see yours and I dont think I can convinces you on the need/ appropriateness of having +1 (group) and +2 (raid) attachments.



Enkidu harness was an awesome TP piece, you should feel bad.



Also bear in mind that Enkidu lost a bit of its luster for some people when ACP came out and you could use the body for the same thing for jobs like MNK, PUP, etc. The ACP body could be like a hauby for the jobs that couldn't wear one. This doesn't mean that Enkidu isn't good; it just lost a bit of luster when a year later, ACP came out (ZNM being 6/2008 and ACP being 7/2009).

Goliard Saio I feel did maybe deserve some mention though, being a 4% haste body. It became a little nicer when H2H skill got a nice boost.
#19 Sep 25 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Other jobs have an item that is equivalent to what black belt does for monk.

No they don't. Relic/Mythic weapons aside because they're a special category, no job has anything that competes with black belt for all of the following categories:

1: Longevity
2: Game Changer
3: Access Difficulty
4: Status Symbol
5: Non Cross-Spectrum upgrade (Relics, Mythics, AF1/2/3, Empys, etc)

There is no other item in the game that possesses the same upgrade potential or mythos that the black belt has. If you want to even try to disprove this, go for it, but I will prove your **** wrong every time.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#20 Sep 25 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Other jobs have an item that is equivalent to what black belt does for monk.

No they don't. Relic/Mythic weapons aside because they're a special category, no job has anything that competes with black belt for all of the following categories:

1: Longevity
2: Game Changer
3: Access Difficulty
4: Status Symbol
5: Non Cross-Spectrum upgrade (Relics, Mythics, AF1/2/3, Empys, etc)

There is no other item in the game that possesses the same upgrade potential or mythos that the black belt has. If you want to even try to disprove this, go for it, but I will prove your **** wrong every time.



Uhh jinte.. Did you read that whole paragraph...? You do realise we just made the same point right>.>
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#21 Sep 26 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Other jobs have an item that is equivalent to what black belt does for monk.

No they don't. Relic/Mythic weapons aside because they're a special category, no job has anything that competes with black belt for all of the following categories:

1: Longevity
2: Game Changer
3: Access Difficulty
4: Status Symbol
5: Non Cross-Spectrum upgrade (Relics, Mythics, AF1/2/3, Empys, etc)

There is no other item in the game that possesses the same upgrade potential or mythos that the black belt has. If you want to even try to disprove this, go for it, but I will prove your **** wrong every time.



Uhh jinte.. Did you read that whole paragraph...? You do realise we just made the same point right>.>

you people really need to work on being clear as to what you're saying when you say **** because if I'm not thinking when I read it, it won't make sense and my brain will just decide on its own what you said. And then stuff like this happens. Your post makes no sense, so it's not my fault. Smiley: bah
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#22 Sep 26 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Other jobs have an item that is equivalent to what black belt does for monk.

No they don't. Relic/Mythic weapons aside because they're a special category, no job has anything that competes with black belt for all of the following categories:

1: Longevity
2: Game Changer
3: Access Difficulty
4: Status Symbol
5: Non Cross-Spectrum upgrade (Relics, Mythics, AF1/2/3, Empys, etc)

There is no other item in the game that possesses the same upgrade potential or mythos that the black belt has. If you want to even try to disprove this, go for it, but I will prove your **** wrong every time.



Uhh jinte.. Did you read that whole paragraph...? You do realise we just made the same point right>.>

you people really need to work on being clear as to what you're saying when you say sh*t, because if I'm not thinking when I read it, it won't make sense and my brain will just decide on its own what you said. And then stuff like this happens. Your post makes no sense, so it's not my fault. Smiley: bah


I was being sarcastic don't hate me>.< Hahaha I will admit I should of put a ? mark at the end of that sentence.
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#23 Sep 27 2011 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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The discussion that PUP didn't get game-changing items misses a few really nice things PUP did get:

* Our relic set was one of the best in the game at 75. 4/5 pieces and the accessory were fantastic - body for TP, hands for TP, legs for WS/nuking (and solid for TP when we had no haste options), feet for nuking, cape for TP/WS. Most other jobs would have killed to have as good of a relic set.

* Don't forget the puppet. Stuff like Turbo Charger, Ice Maker, Tranquilizer, Coiler, Attuner/Target Marker. All late ToAU era additions that GREATLY enhanced the puppet, and made as big a difference to PUP as elite pieces of gear for the player did to any other job.

* Hell, we got two WHOLE NEW PUPPETS fairly late in the ToAU era, with Soulsoother and Spiritreaver heads. Just because I didn't have to win the Spiritreaver head from an HNM Wyrm or something doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal. And yes, there is some fairness to the other side of this argument, that S-E released PUP "unfinished" and this was just completing the job... but still, the new heads were major.

And yeah, you can mention stuff like Enkidu, Usukane, Goliard Saio... these were indeed good, but other jobs also got fairly equivalent benefit from ZNM, Salvage, and Nyzul gear. I'll also throw Setanta's Ledelsens in there as a WotG-era uber-piece.

I don't really complain that PUP didn't have tons of elite gear that dropped from specific "high end" mobs. I'm personally glad I didn't have to compete with the crowds of people hoarding DKP for Byakko's Haidate, fighting it out for Homam, etc. And noting that those are Sky/Sea examples anyway... how many jobs really DID have it different than PUP in the ToAU-WotG era? You got gear from things like Einherjar or Assault Points (no competition there), or the sets that everyone competed over like Usukane, ZNM gear, etc. It's not like that many jobs fought over the few HNM-type drops from stuff like the ToAU "kings".

EDIT: Also, concurring with the sentiment that Black Belt is in a class of its own as JSE elite/status pieces. Non-MNKs simply don't have a BB equivalent.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 1:42pm by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
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