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#1 Aug 04 2011 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
Is now my favorite. Shredder is good(albeit not as good as Shatterer is better), if it pulls hate Barrier module seems to like to proc a shield block and by me some time to get hate back. My question is, can DA proc during Shredder, or is it limited to 2 hits?
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#2 Aug 05 2011 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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I would guess double attack can proc during any of valoredge's weaponskills, though I don;t have any proof.

If my new hypothesis pans out, though, we may also be able to get more favorable shield bash performance out of valoredge using the tactical processor.
#3 Aug 05 2011 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
I tried tact pro last night during Einherjar and wasn't impressed at all, out of all the Bashes it did, only 1 was early enough to stun a TP move, and I overloaded at ~twice the normal rate(this number means nothing, it is just a rough observation in comparison to what I had seen earlier that day).

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 8:26am by itege
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#4 Aug 08 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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VonCrown wrote:
I would guess double attack can proc during any of valoredge's weaponskills, though I don;t have any proof.

If my new hypothesis pans out, though, we may also be able to get more favorable shield bash performance out of valoredge using the tactical processor.


People tested Shield Bash with Tactical Processor many years ago and found no improvement. Tactical Processor still sucks, and the explanation was wishy-washy anyway. Not worth a slot.

As for DA on String Shredder, IIRC automaton WS work like player WS in that DA can proc on any hit of a multi-hit WS (up to 8 attacks total per round). To confirm, just do a lot of WS and immediately check the puppet's TP. Each DA proc will return an extra 1tp.

Also, I think VE sucks now:
1) SS stomps it for overall DD
2) VE's shield blocking doesn't really do much if it doesn't have hate (and it has poor tools to keep hate)
3) Survivability on automatons is irrelevant due to 1min DEA timer making puppets essentially disposable (for free, so I'm sure that causes some jealousy for BSTs who have a 4:10-5:00 call beast timer AND need to use consumable jugs to call the pet)

Unless they add new JAs/attachments/job adjustments making it practical to want to tank with an automaton, VE doesn't really do anything worth using it over another puppet. I wish VE was good, I want to love the little guy but I simply don't see it in today's FFXI.
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#5 Aug 08 2011 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Anza, maybe tomorrow?
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#6 Aug 08 2011 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Camwin wrote:
Anza, maybe tomorrow?


Oh, I don't think VE is beyond help. It appears that S-E is wanting to carve out a niche for it as a real tank with all this talk of new automaton oils, new JAs, new attachments, adjustments to existing attachments (making Strobe good would be a nice start). If they actually give it the tools to do so, maybe it will be useful.

As for today? I don't see much purpose for VE. Here's hoping S-E has a clever way to give it a helpful niche.
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#7 Aug 09 2011 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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In all seriousness, I really hope SE does niche out frames. That gives the possibility of full Storm and even harly usefulness.

As for VE, they better give a less janky method to restore hp. Maybe an attachment that gives endrain, or even a dnc type drain.
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#8 Aug 09 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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As for VE, they better give a less janky method to restore hp. Maybe an attachment that gives endrain, or even a dnc type drain.

Said similar before, but a million times this. And it could be dark-maneuver based, to give us a reason to use those besides pure cannibal blade activation forcing.

Maybe the attachment/another attachment specifically to power up cannibal blade in proportion to # of dark maneuvers in effect- Perhaps by increasing the gains from high stats, to make it useful at higher levels but keep it balanced at lower ones.
#9 Aug 09 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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VonCrown wrote:
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As for VE, they better give a less janky method to restore hp. Maybe an attachment that gives endrain, or even a dnc type drain.

Said similar before, but a million times this. And it could be dark-maneuver based, to give us a reason to use those besides pure cannibal blade activation forcing.

Maybe the attachment/another attachment specifically to power up cannibal blade in proportion to # of dark maneuvers in effect- Perhaps by increasing the gains from high stats, to make it useful at higher levels but keep it balanced at lower ones.

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#10 Aug 09 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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VonCrown wrote:
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As for VE, they better give a less janky method to restore hp. Maybe an attachment that gives endrain, or even a dnc type drain.

Said similar before, but a million times this. And it could be dark-maneuver based, to give us a reason to use those besides pure cannibal blade activation forcing.

Maybe the attachment/another attachment specifically to power up cannibal blade in proportion to # of dark maneuvers in effect- Perhaps by increasing the gains from high stats, to make it useful at higher levels but keep it balanced at lower ones.


The main issue with Cannibal Blade and tanking is that the WS generates almost zero enmity. Unless you're soloing something with VE tanking and you just standing back, anyone acting on the mob will be pulling hate easily. Strobe is not enough, Flashbulb doesn't generate hate (nor am I sure I would want it to, it's nice to have a near hateless flash in many instances), and the puppet loses volatile enmity like mad from taking hits.

The secondary issue for CB and tanking is that for keeping hate, String Shredder does a much better job since it does more damage. CB simply isn't practical without sick regain (RIP Mega-Burritos). If they did something like give VE an innate Regain (say, 1tp/tic at level 1, increasing by 1tp/tic at every 10th level), that might be one way to allow VE to keep hate and heal itself with a WS. Would have to be done in conjunction with a change to CB to greatly increase the enmity it generates though.

It wouldn't surprise me if we get a new JA directly related to tanking or healing the puppet though. And they also mentioned a possible new tier of automaton oil. I did recently redo my Desultor Tassets and put Repair +10% on em to go along with Guignol Earring's +20%... here's hoping that gets even more useful :)

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 3:03pm by Anza
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#11 Aug 09 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.
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#12 Aug 09 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.


For me it always averages 2k and sometimes spikes up to 2.5k depending on the mob. This is both inside and outside Abyssea without Flame Holder. Don't forget about the defense down effect it has either. So yes it's better than shredder by a good amount imho.
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#13 Aug 09 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
Dragonmasterxxxx wrote:
itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.


For me it always averages 2k and sometimes spikes up to 2.5k depending on the mob. This is both inside and outside Abyssea without Flame Holder. Don't forget about the defense down effect it has either. So yes it's better than shredder by a good amount imho.


Hmmm, my Shredders always seem to land between 1.8k and 3k in abyssea, I definitely see Shatterer being better outside.

On an unrelated note; Juogi or a kokugetsu togi (+3% crit damage, +5 dex, and +5 attack) for Smite(don't have it yet, but soon)?

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 7:14pm by itege
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#14 Aug 09 2011 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Dragonmasterxxxx wrote:
itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder?

Don't forget about the defense down effect it has either.


This. Not only does Shatterer generally do a modest amount more WS damage than Shredder for me, but it also makes EVERYONE else attacking the mob do more damage during the defense down effect. The larger your party/alliance, the more the balance shifts toward Shatterer. Though even if I was the only DD, if I was comparing damage I'd still prefer Shatterer.

It's very much like the classic lowbie WAR example of Sturmwind (higher damage) versus Shield Break (lower damage, but evasion down helping the whole party) in acc-starved 20s-30s level parties on stuff like beetles. Looking just at WS damage is completely missing the point.
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#15 Aug 09 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
itege wrote:
Dragonmasterxxxx wrote:
itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.


For me it always averages 2k and sometimes spikes up to 2.5k depending on the mob. This is both inside and outside Abyssea without Flame Holder. Don't forget about the defense down effect it has either. So yes it's better than shredder by a good amount imho.


Hmmm, my Shredders always seem to land between 1.8k and 3k in abyssea, I definitely see Shatterer being better outside.

On an unrelated note; Juogi or a kokugetsu togi (+3% crit damage, +5 dex, and +5 attack) for Smite(don't have it yet, but soon)?

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 7:14pm by itege


Honestly, i'd stick with with the Cirque +1/+2 body for VS as a PUP.

I'll go on to say that on the Emp WSs i have access to, discounting Quietus(which i find to be a very consistent and unwavering 2-2.4k in/out of Abyssea), i'm finding ATK to be a prime stat to boost. Even thought VS is 60% STR mod, for me i'm gearing for it this way


Inside Abyssea

ATK > STR > ACC


Outside Abyssea

ATK > ACC > STR



And again, this is just whats been working for me anyways.
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#16 Aug 10 2011 at 2:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Just had my auto Genta solo Yearner cycled through 2 earth 1 dark. Only needed to through him a repair when he was hit Impalement. atma used VV and RR

I also saw him spamming Shield bash on this nm probably do to Yearner spamming Favors Carousel i saw him using it roughly every other Favors Carousel

Edited, Aug 10th 2011 4:40am by Tesahade
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#17 Aug 10 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.


In Abyssea, it's more consistent than Shredder is but Shredder has a higher potential overall because of atmas. Outside, it's Shatterer stomps all over Shredder especially if you have Smite.
#18 Aug 10 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
Shouta wrote:
itege wrote:
Is shatterer really that much better than shredder? Few times I've used it I wasn't overly impressed.


In Abyssea, it's more consistent than Shredder is but Shredder has a higher potential overall because of atmas. Outside, it's Shatterer stomps all over Shredder especially if you have Smite.


Yeah, that's what I'm noticing, 3.1k+ smites on shredder are nice.
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#19 Aug 10 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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itege wrote:
Yeah, that's what I'm noticing, 3.1k+ smites on shredder are nice.


You mean Shatterer, no?

Victory Smite -> Armor Shatterer -> Light
Stringing Pummel -> Sting Shredder -> Darkness

That's a pretty good thing to remember, actually. If you don't have Smite, then using the VE for the chance of free darkness chains is not a bad idea. The difference in Abyssea between the two frames isn't going to be as bad as outside so using the frame with the WS you have would be pretty nice.
#20 Aug 10 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
I typo'd hardcore, meant spikes on shredder (not smites).
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