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Hunting the new animatorFollow

#52 May 23 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Aha, but little does the wiki know... The deluxe Animator's true strength lies in it's .00001% increase to the tactical processor attachment!
#53 May 23 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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it should have at least had the following effect as a hidden latent.

"Enhances Damage Gauge Effect" so it really prioritizes cures :D
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#54 May 23 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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VonCrown wrote:
Aha, but little does the wiki know... The deluxe Animator's true strength lies in it's .00001% increase to the tactical processor attachment!


Yes, but only if you're facing Northwest on Iceday and you have a Wild Rabbit Tail in your inventory.
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#55 May 23 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Disappointing animator...
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#56 May 23 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Sidegrade animator is sidegrade.
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#57 May 24 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't buy that "It's a side-grade for whiny pups" schtick. That's like adding a Black Belt +1 to Generic_NM.

The only thing we know is that it's DEX+6 and that it apparently doesn't have Automaton:HP/MP bonus.
We simply need more reports on the hidden stats. Automaton: Damage Taken + Automaton: Conserve MP would beat HP/MP on Animator +1, IF that's the hidden effect.

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#58 May 24 2011 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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I don't see why its hard to believe seedling.

Turbo animator only added +2 dex,
animator +1 add +4 dex and 10~40 hp/mp or w/e
delux animator adds +6 dex

We still cant use stuff in our ammo slot
We still lose tp for swapping out animators for ws

I am very much not surprised that it does nothing other then 2 more dex, maybe a hidden +1% crit rate for master which you'll never see.
#59 May 24 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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dustinfoley wrote:
I don't see why its hard to believe seedling.


Nor do I, which is exactly why I predicted this as a reasonable possibility before anyone even found the thing. I wasn't just pulling fanciful ideas out of thin air, I was basing them on being consistent with normal S-E behavior from the past. As I posted: "maybe in classic S-E fashion, make it a situational piece where it's better in some ways than existing gear and worse in others (say, DEX+6 to the master, but no automaton stats)".

It's possible that there are mystery hidden stats, or those that would be extremely difficult to test. Doesn't seem that likely to me though. Seems more like they gave an alternative to the +1 that allows people who missed the boat (pun intended) on Einherjar to get an upgrade from the Turbo Animator by doing a more current event. Which, by the way, is exactly the kind of thing a lot of PUPs make vocal complaints for (see also: Targeting the Captain attachments and complaints about "dead content" making them "impossible" to get).

So yeah. Underwhelming, but not at all surprising.
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#60 May 24 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Anza wrote:
dustinfoley wrote:
I don't see why its hard to believe seedling.


Nor do I, which is exactly why I predicted this as a reasonable possibility before anyone even found the thing. I wasn't just pulling fanciful ideas out of thin air, I was basing them on being consistent with normal S-E behavior from the past. As I posted: "maybe in classic S-E fashion, make it a situational piece where it's better in some ways than existing gear and worse in others (say, DEX+6 to the master, but no automaton stats)".

It's possible that there are mystery hidden stats, or those that would be extremely difficult to test. Doesn't seem that likely to me though. Seems more like they gave an alternative to the +1 that allows people who missed the boat (pun intended) on Einherjar to get an upgrade from the Turbo Animator by doing a more current event. Which, by the way, is exactly the kind of thing a lot of PUPs make vocal complaints for (see also: Targeting the Captain attachments and complaints about "dead content" making them "impossible" to get).

So yeah. Underwhelming, but not at all surprising.

Totally agree with both of you. As much cool stuff as SE is trying to do, someone on the development team is still stuck in a "two steps foward, one step back" mindset.

Glad i got the +1 back when my shell did ein' weekly. Will try for the deluxe now for completion's sake, but not gonna kill myself now that its looking to be at best a side-grade.
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#61 May 24 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
dustinfoley wrote:
I don't see why its hard to believe seedling.

Turbo animator only added +2 dex,
animator +1 add +4 dex and 10~40 hp/mp or w/e
delux animator adds +6 dex

We still cant use stuff in our ammo slot
We still lose tp for swapping out animators for ws

I am very much not surprised that it does nothing other then 2 more dex, maybe a hidden +1% crit rate for master which you'll never see.



It's not hard to believe that it only has dex +6 however seedling is right to say we shouldn't stop testing becuase the only apparent stat is dex+6.
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#62 May 25 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
It's not hard to believe that it only has dex +6 however seedling is right to say we shouldn't stop testing becuase the only apparent stat is dex+6.


Nobody said people should stop testing or that we can be certain there is no other hidden effect. But let's be realistic about things - probably not something you should get your hopes up about either.

It's not as if it's crazy to think that SE simply gave an alternative to the now harder to get Animator +1, by using the same DEX+2 bump that has been the pattern with all previous animators and omitting the +1 exclusive automaton hp/mp.
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#63 May 25 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally i find 2 more dex for me to be far more usefull then 50/60 more hp/mp for my pet.

#64 May 25 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
Personally i find 2 more dex for me to be far more usefull then 50/60 more hp/mp for my pet.


Maybe more useful, maybe not. Even in DEX's best case scenarios, 2DEX is certainly a pretty minor boost though.

Possible DEX benefits:

1) WS mod:
No H2H WS you're going to be using at high level has a DEX mod, so this isn't relevant to us.

2) Acc:
If you're not capped, 2DEX=1Acc. But in today's FFXI, you're probably capped on a lot of stuff. So maybe this benefits you in Voidwatch, some particularly difficult NMs, or maybe in some future content... but normal 75cap world content and stuff in Abyssea with Atma/Cruor buffs, you're probably getting no benefit here.

3) Crit rate:
Again, you might already be capped on dDEX (function of player DEX to mob AGI), especially in Abyssea with Razed Ruins and Cruor buffs, and with PUP's naturally high DEX (tied for 2nd among all jobs) to boot. I'm not sure whether/how the May updates have affected that cap though, so there's possibly more to this discussion (note that dDEX cap is NOT the same as overall crit rate cap and had its own cap in the past, it's just one component of overall crit rate, along with crit+ gear, merits, atma, Rogue's Roll, etc). If you AREN'T capped on dDEX, 2DEX might push you to a higher crit rate (between 0.25-1% crit rate per point of DEX depending on where on the dDEX exponential curve you are).

4) Overload rate:
Only mentioning this to be complete, and to note how much of a non-issue overloading on Thunder Maneuvers is. I think I have more DEX than my automaton naked (and once you have more DEX than the puppet adding even more adds nothing for overload purposes), and who's really spamming Thunder anyway? Plus, between Cirque body, AF gloves, and Buffoon's Collar, that's even less chance of overload. 2 DEX is not going to make any difference on this point.

CONCLUSION
If you're capped Acc and dDEX (a likely scenario in Abyssea with RR), DEX+2 does approximately nothing for you. Pet HP/MP certainly wins in that case since at least it's something. If not capped Acc/dDEX, 2 more DEX will give you minor benefit that may be more useful than pet HP/MP.

Obviously, pet HP/MP also still wins for some specific purposes - automaton tanking, trying for max pet survivability, maybe it pushes you to a point where you can get one more nuke off before dropping below Aspir/Drain threshold, maybe you don't want to deactivate a mage puppet for whatever reason, any time you're using a mage puppet but not meleeing yourself, etc.

Edited, May 25th 2011 6:25pm by Anza
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#65 May 25 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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Yeah but in current game:
50 hp is 1/4 of the average hit I will take and about 1/3 of what my VE will take, so in the grand scheme of things, adding 2.5% hp to VE at 90 vs adding 2 more dex to me seems like a pretty even trade off.

Now to find out what bridge that xiozen troll lives under and see if i can burn it down ;-/
#66 May 25 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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dustinfoley wrote:
Yeah but in current game:
50 hp is 1/4 of the average hit I will take and about 1/3 of what my VE will take, so in the grand scheme of things, adding 2.5% hp to VE at 90 vs adding 2 more dex to me seems like a pretty even trade off.


Yeah, I'm certainly not saying automaton HP/MP on Animator+1 is some major benefit either. It's certainly a minor boost, but it's something. Not as if we don't do similar things elsewhere in the game - look at HP merits, for instance. Nobody really thinks 10hp is going to make or break anything, but you'd rather have an extra HP merit than not.

As opposed to automaton HP/MP being a minor benefit, DEX+2 is in many cases practically ZERO improvement. Probably the case in Abyssea with RR atma.

The real point isn't whether one of the animators is superior to the other... it's illustrating that Deluxe Animator is really not very impressive, and unless there's something we don't know about a hidden stat, I wouldn't suggest any PUP go through undue effort to get it thinking it is something better than it is. I'll get one for completion's sake, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking it's some significant upgrade.

Edited, May 25th 2011 7:21pm by Anza
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#67 May 25 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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I'm hoping on banking that it gets a trial. Unlikely but. Taru can dream right?
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