More controversial than the whining about -na problem!Follow

Are you seriously asking this question? 6-8 seconds of delay justifies losing 10-15% haste and some amount of accuracy for the puppet? Wow. How about we just stop using a puppet all together? Activate clearly takes 2 seconds to use as well(as does deploy and repair) that is vastly inefficient as well, we could call ourselves lawlmnks and we would be the sh*t. Don't forget to wear your af body at 75.



Edited, Apr 9th 2010 6:18pm by itege

First of all, this isn't even tested for non-DNC abilities in that thread.

And all JAs aren't created equal. Good example from the cited thread:


As a COR, I know that if you use Quick Draw with a macro that causes you to blink, you will keep running. If you don't change gear, you will freeze in place (and the lag will cause you to get hit if you're kiting something). PUPs should know this too - maneuvers with a gear swap let you keep running, but if you don't swap you'll freeze during the JA animation. DNC can't use such blinking techniques to continue moving - jigs is a great example.

So:

1. We're not even positive PUP JAs introduce this lag.

2. Gear change macros might reduce/eliminate it (AF gloves, which you should use in every maneuver anyway)

3. Even if there is a slight DoT loss, the overall gain from maneuvers more than makes up for it.

That being said, it's possible that this is something to support not spamming maneuvers mid-fight every 10 seconds, and trying to spread out maneuver use to do it at down times and not as often during actual fights.

I believe maneuvers delay your weapon attacks too.

Of course I haven't tested it, but soloing and playing pup almost full time I have a good feeling it does.

With that said, I do try to encorporate proper spacing of maneuvers when possible. Of course, having 3 maneuvers at all times is optimal, but doing things like adding them during downtimes, can eliminate at least 1-2 maneuvers when engaged.

Speaking only for myself, i think that it is indeed laughable that any PUP should worry about ANY delay that our signature JA's add to our attack rounds.


Manuvers allow us to guide our automaton's actions. Any delay they add are negligible and are totally worth it and an acceptable tradeoff. Remember, its Puppetmaster, not "Slow-Ass MNK with no kicks, focus, dodge, etc. and a retarded NPC Fellow". And yes, the Automaton without input from us is essentially a retarded NPC Fellow-laughable.


So yet again, yes. It is laughable, because the only way to not have the delay from manuvers is to not use manuvers. And since we all are going to use manuvers anyway, why even worry about it?


Sorry, kinda rambly there


TL;DR

Why? Because its a non-issue. A laughable one. Not a controversial one.

I'm sure it's still worth it to use maneuvers if you've got the right attachments. It still doesn't make them any less annoying to have to use and reapply every single minute, at least in my opinion...



It applies to all JA/WS. Every single one.



Yeah, they put some added protections on these, to avoid being able to Waltz/Jig on the move.

Unfortunately, from my understanding, this can still be prevented by simply tweaking/removing the .dats for those particular animations.

Edited, Apr 9th 2010 10:00pm by Fynlar

Flawed comparison. When i'm on MNK i use Boost in 2 possibly 3 situations

1) Right before a WS

2) Every time the recast is ready if i'm specifically /WHM and Chi-Blast pimp extraordinaire.

*3) If i happen to be tanking something and use it w/e recast is up for extra hate. And this is not the whole fight even, I cut back on spamming Boost after my hate is established.

On PUP i'm constantly tweeking my manuver rotation to keep Klaxon doing the best possible w/e he happens to be setup for at the moment. Like i said, flawed comparison.




Again, the job is Puppetmaster. You know maximizing the automaton first? You of course don't forget the master part of the equation, but of the partners in PUP's master/auto dynamic, if one has to suffer-would you rather it be the automaton?


You took the time to do math, so i won't be flip. So tell me this straight, are you really bothered by the lack of caring that i have about the delay manuvers add to atk rounds or are you just a malcontent by nature looking for a dust up? If its the later, hate it for you cause i ain't that guy. I'll say my peace on a subject then i'm out, leaving you to find another guy to argue with.

If its the former, i don't know what to say. I've noticed from the get go on PUP that i could build TP faster if i didn't use as many(or none for that matter) manuvers. But that sort of defeats the purpose of the job doesn't it? I mean i really doubt SE is gonna change the delay on PUP JAs just so the master can do more dmg, they just raised the HTH cap for that.

Anyways, there you go. Keep on with w/e you are trying to accomplish here and i'll even reply if you direct another comment at me. My initial sentiment stays the same though. Delay from using manuvers are a non-issuse; increase the Master's dmg by cutting their usage and gut the auto's performance or keep the auto at peak performance and suck it up and take extra delay on the master. Those are the only options, and its clear which i support doing.

Good luck finding out the obvious.

i dont think there was any situation where i had to deploy while engaged. i always did it while either the mob was on the way and i was positioning, or the brd had it right next to me and i was repositioning.

my whole thing is. even though only a fool would judge a job by its numbers. you merit with ALOT of fools. if people take a chance at inviting a pup to a merit, you better damn well put up some high armor piercers, because thats why they invited you in the first place. they could care less about your 2 pansy rounds you lost.

even if someone ran the numbers and somehow proved hypothetically that not maneuvering actually did increase total dot. i still wouldnt do it because id rather have an obvious increase of damage, than a behind the scenes increase that no one notices.