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New to PUP...need helpFollow

#1 Apr 07 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hi folks,

So I'm not a new player to FFXI, but I've been away for awhile. PUP, BLU, DNC, and COR are the only jobs I don't have above 60, and I miss the early levels.

I'm looking for tips and info first of all on what PUP is...I get that it's a pet job, but what else? Is it useful in XP parties and endgame, or just solo?

Do you melee as PUP in parties at all, or sit back and leave your pet to do all the work?

I see all the gear threads and I'll certainly look at them...but most interested in just a general rundown of the job, what it's capable of, and what it's 'role' so to speak is - I really don't have much of a clue on how it works yet.

EDIT: Also just as some more info - I tend to favor the melee classes where I can play a direct role and do some damage. Support Jobs aren't really for me...

Thanks!



Edited, Apr 7th 2010 5:21am by aceofwilds
#2 Apr 07 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well I am in the process of leveling pup currently and I can try to answer a few of your questions.

You melee with your pup while leveling.

Pup is a very gear dependent job. Player gear can be very expansive and hard to find due to only being able to wear cloth and mage gear. This means things like peacock charm are invaluable and one of the few sources of accuracy for your character. Thats not to say you have to spend a ton of gil on gear, but it really helps.

Gear for your puppet is the big part. It can be very expensive but makes pup extraordinarily powerful especially in the lower levels. Even well into the 50's my pup is destroying birds. Attachments are the single most important aspect of our job.

Pup is a great dd that requires a lot of fine tuning to succeed at. The best piece of advice I can give you is to start the sharp-shot frame first due to skilling up pup range attack being incredibly painful.
#3 Apr 07 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Hi folks,

So I'm not a new player to FFXI, but I've been away for awhile. PUP, BLU, DNC, and COR are the only jobs I don't have above 60, and I miss the early levels.

I'm looking for tips and info first of all on what PUP is...I get that it's a pet job, but what else? 1) Is it useful in XP parties and endgame, or just solo?

2) Do you melee as PUP in parties at all, or sit back and leave your pet to do all the work?

3) I see all the gear threads and I'll certainly look at them...but most interested in just a general rundown of the job, what it's capable of, and what it's 'role' so to speak is - I really don't have much of a clue on how it works yet.

EDIT: Also just as some more info - I tend to favor the melee classes where I can play a direct role and do some damage. Support Jobs aren't really for me...

Thanks!


I don't usually aswer posts/questions like these, i'm usually of the mind to let ppl find out stuff on their own, but i figured i'd weigh in for no particular reason.

1- IMO definitely useful in both exp and endgame. And while i consider PUP to be middling-low high on the solo scale, you can have success in this area as well.

2- If you are fighting anything that other melee are on, you should be punching it too as well as having your auto up in the mix. If its something melee shouldn't be on, PUP has the cool option of being able to shift to the backline and still contributing there.

3- This is where hybrid jobs get the shaft imo. You can do a lot with PUP and in a game where ppl expect jobs to be one-trick ponies, that doesn't go over very well to most. All of the jobs released from ToAU on are like this, PUP, BLU, COR, SCH, and DNC. They can shift roles on the fly.

More specifically for PUP, there will be situations where you can be doing any of the following: Pulling, DD, Tanking, Nuking, Healing, or split task(this is where you the master are doing one thing and the auto is doing another). PUP is what you make out of it in short.

Hope that helped some.
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#4 Apr 07 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the comments guys. I searched around with google and read some good posts about the job which has given me a little more info.

SpiritReaver - it DOES seem like all the versatile jobs from ToAU/Wings get the shaft...which is dissapointing. My first two jobs to 75 on my main were PLD and NIN...and it seems like those are still the most valuable melee (and always will be I'm guessing). Would love for a new melee class that I can tinker with that is still important end-game, and that doesn't cost millions of gil like WAR (which I also have into the 70's).

What I read elsewhere in short indicates the following:
  • You want to grab several attachements immediately, so PUP has a high startup cost.
  • The Ranged Automaton seems to be the clear choice pretty much until end-game? Where it's replaced by the BLM?
  • It sounds like PUP pretty much gets the shaft in the end-game, similar to BST?

  • Quote:
    This means things like peacock charm are invaluable


    Wow that's a spendy item...is that really necessary? I couldn't even justify that for WAR, where it would arguably be even more important.
    #5 Apr 07 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    Thanks for the comments guys. I searched around with google and read some good posts about the job which has given me a little more info.

    SpiritReaver - it DOES seem like all the versatile jobs from ToAU/Wings get the shaft...which is dissapointing. My first two jobs to 75 on my main were PLD and NIN...and it seems like those are still the most valuable melee (and always will be I'm guessing). Would love for a new melee class that I can tinker with that is still important end-game, and that doesn't cost millions of gil like WAR (which I also have into the 70's).

    What I read elsewhere in short indicates the following:
    #1 You want to grab several attachements immediately, so PUP has a high startup cost.
    #2 The Ranged Automaton seems to be the clear choice pretty much until end-game? Where it's replaced by the BLM?
    #3 It sounds like PUP pretty much gets the shaft in the end-game, similar to BST?

    Quote:
    This means things like peacock charm are invaluable


    #4 Wow that's a spendy item...is that really necessary? I couldn't even justify that for WAR, where it would arguably be even more important.


    1- Yes, startup on PUP can be very high if you try to have ALL the attachments before starting out. I've spent millions over the years on PUP, just counting attachments and frames, that are pretty much tied up in the automaton for good now. Bearing that in mind, before you go all out on PUP, by all the attachments you can from the npc vendors first. Then go play with the job til about lvl 10, if you think its a job you can love worry about getting the rest of the attachments.

    2- In an exp setting, i'll agree on that assessment. For me in exp(the rare times i pt for exp/limits anymore), sharpshot is the first choice. But you also have to take other factors into account and pick which setup is best when different situations arise. As you play the job and get a feel for what you can personally do with it, picking the right frame for the task gets like second nature.

    3- Well in all fairness, really depends on the shell you are in, but there is a fair deal of stigma unfairly put on PUP still. I'm lucky in that my shell pretty much doesn't tell me what job to bring to events, so i come as w/e i like. I have ten 75's and more and more frequently, i'm just showing up as PUP unless there is a zerg of some kind planned. And again my opinion, the only thing i wouldn't take PUP for is a zerg.

    Job is perfectly fine doing most anything else, only thing holding it back at this point is playerbase opinion. And that's just gonna take time. I mean there are still ppl i know ingame that truly believe DRG is a weak job.

    4- With any piece like like that, there will be the ppl that say you have to have it and the ones who say you don't. Personally, i wouldn't look down on anyone who didn't have one. And that's before that boost to HTH PUP just got. Now after the boost, i definitely see PCC firmly in the luxury item category, even for PUP.
    ____________________________
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    One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
    Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...


    Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
    #6 Apr 07 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    What I read elsewhere in short indicates the following:
    #1 You want to grab several attachements immediately, so PUP has a high startup cost.


    1 - I agree with spiritreaverdiabolos. You should give it a try with the NPC vendor items (plus a Flashbulb from the AH, probably about 10-20k), which provide a nice mix of what PUP can do. If you find that it's something you want to progress on, you can add more. Once you start partying you'll want to grab commonly used DD-focused items (generally fire and thunder based), and you can put together some very solid DD attachments for not too much gil (say, Target Marker, Attuner, Stabilizers, Tension Springs). Coiler is a little more pricey (150k-ish on my server) but very useful.

    The items that drop from the Targeting the Captain quest are the expensive ones, and some of them are really good. However, those are sort of the signs of a dedicated PUP. I'd expect someone at endgame who cares about their gear to try to get them, but by no means would I expect a mid-level player to have them. And to give a little less fear, some of the super-expensive items really don't even become highly useful until more "endgame" situations (Spiritreaver nuking = Condenser and Tranquilizer help a ton). Turbo Charger is the most pricey attachment that's truly useful from an early level, but if you can't get it you can still be plenty capable. My general rule of thumb is that once you get past AF levels you should probably be trying to fill in any gaps in your attachments.

    Quote:

    #2 The Ranged Automaton seems to be the clear choice pretty much until end-game? Where it's replaced by the BLM?


    Kinda. The ranger frame (Sharpshot) is the primary exp/merit party frame. It's pure DD, gets really strong WS (once you get Daze in the 50s, look out!), and helps a lot on the popular piercing bonus Colibri camps. You'll want to have the puppet melee to gain TP instead of hanging back like a RNG, because damage is more skewed toward WS. Kind of like a circa 2004-2005 RNG, or a COR meleeing with a multihit weapon to fire off as many highly damaging Slug Shots as possible. It is common to get Sharpshot for your first new frame at level 10 both for its usefulness in party, and because it's the only frame that gets ranged skill (so if you wait around until level 20/30, it's further behind on ranged skill and harder to skill up to near cap).

    Spiritreaver is the BLM and is indeed often used in endgame situations, generally for stuff that's either magic-weak, or where melee is simply too dangerous. It can put out massive damage too, but it's a little more finicky to manipulate with maneuvers and to get the best performance you'll want a couple of the expensive attachments (Tranquilizer and Condenser), pet magic+ gear (Relic legs/feet, ACP body, random augmented stuff), merits (5/5 pet magic skill gets access to 3 new spells, Optimization gives a big pet MAB boost). The fact that the spells that make it worthwhile are late level is another reason you won't see much of SR until the endgame levels.

    You'll still find situations, many solo or small group, where you'll use the "RDM" frame (Stormwaker) and WHM head (Soulsoother). Soulsoother can cure party members, the only puppet that can do so.

    Valoredge (the melee puppet) has its uses too. It's a melee DD with high HP, great for kited fights, solid DoT, and it's more sturdy than the comparatively weak Sharpshot. Sometimes if AoE is an issue VE is the best.

    Harlequin is the starter frame, kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. It's generally very rarely used outside of beginning levels. It does blunt damage, so every once in a while you'll find an oddball situation where it's useful for that reason.

    Quote:
    #3 It sounds like PUP pretty much gets the shaft in the end-game, similar to BST?


    Depends on the people/event. Some LS leaders don't understand what to do with PUP or haven't seen many good ones, so they avoid it. Some more openminded people give it a chance, and with a good PUP they'll often be impressed. Some events PUP is good in are Limbus (one of my favorite Limbus jobs), Dyna (either as another DD, or nuking stuff with BLMs), Nyzul (excellent for floor climbing, not quite as good for bosses). And of course, stuff like sky/sea PUP does fine - one notable use is that Valoredge is a BEAST on a kited Kirin fight.

    Then again, some LS leaders won't do anything without cookie cutter setups.

    Quote:
    #4 Wow that's a spendy item...is that really necessary? I couldn't even justify that for WAR, where it would arguably be even more important.


    PCC? Not really necessary. I used Spike Necklace -> Chivalrous Chain myself before I ever got a PCC. The point was correct though that PUP has a bit less access to good DD gear in some slots, so where we can get really good pieces they're often even more valuable to PUP than to other jobs. Still, this concern is a little bit alleviated these days now that PUP just got a considerable bump in H2H skill to B+. Used to be we were especially accuracy starved during the mid-levels, but the skill raise helps that a lot.
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    #7 Apr 07 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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    Hi hi! :) Its been a while since i played PUP, and I think pretty much everything you asked has already been covered. I just wanna throw in that its really hard to pin down what a PUP's "role" is. That really is defined not only by the setup of the other members of your party, but also by what you are fighting. For example, I was gimped for a while (I know, I know! :( ) because I didn't choose the ranged frame until 30. Keep in mind, this was right at release of ToAU, and I didn't have helpful people like this :p So when I got into the 50s and started to do colibri, my ranged skill was highly underleveled. Instead, I went /whm, threw on some old gear from my SMN, and I was able to main heal that camp in umm.. whatever that zone is, the one with the tower in the SW corner.

    Point is, if you have a heads up of A) What other members you have in PT, and B) Where you are camping, you really can set your PUP up to fill various roles. If you get bored easily like me, that is a definite perk. Since you mentioned having so many high level jobs, you are at an advantage because you have experience fighting at different camps, and you will know what to expect. Have fun with the job, it is a lot of fun :) I can't wait to get back in there with the recent changes and start punching things in the face. Woot!

    Serena and Bobeche
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