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Shikkoku/Ginhaku/Shinku Hands/BodyFollow

#1 Mar 31 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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So as you all know, there was alot of speculation going around since the introduction of Synergy and these new armor sets - particularly the Body and Hands. Since then, I know theres dozens of people who have completed those 2 pieces in particular, but I don't recall seeing any findings on the "Increases critical hit damage" on the Body/Hands. Has anybody done any testing on how much of an enhancement it is? If it's a tangable amount (I would imagine even 3-4% per piece), it could well possibly be on the better side of our gear options for those slots.
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#2 Mar 31 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
I am trying desperately to get an aptant ishi. collectively in the neighborhood of 0/30+ lol
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#3 Apr 01 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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i have both the hands and body, while its really hard to say exactly on mobs, but on campaign forts, without the 2 pieces i could get pummel up to about 120, with them i reached 141.

its not definate, but there is a nice increase. oh and i went to dynamis last night and i got pummel to 1050ish, a huge increase since before i couldnt ever break 500. but on top of shikkoku, i have about 12 extra h2h points from the last time i was there
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#4 Apr 01 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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The fortification information is quite interesting, from the sounds of it, thats quite a potent boost (Most likely the best things to wear in those 2 slots for WS). If its possible, could you do some SA tests on some lvl 1 mobs with and without the 2 pieces? (If you do, be sure to note your H2H skill) The sample size doesn't need to be massive either.

EDIT: Not that its exact numbers, but from what you posted on the fortification stuff, theres a 17.5% increase to your damage. Obviously theres alot of external factors there (Double attack/number of crits/H2H skill/STR/Mods/debuffs/upper & lower bound pDIF?), and forts do have a damage reduction property, but so far its something to go on.

Edited, Apr 1st 2010 11:59am by kairyu
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Kairyu
75 MNK: The "Star breaker"
75 PUP: The "Master of manipulation"
Asura server

Quote:
Hey now, that "decision-making time" is very useful.
I couldn't decide which movie to see last-week, I put up an Ice Maneuver and BOOM, my automaton immediately figured it out for me.
#5 Apr 01 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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376 posts
my thf is level 1.. but i suppose i could work on it for the sake of comparison.

but you cant SA multi hit WSs on level 1 mobs because they wont survive the first hit. but i guess you could still get a percent from that data
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#6 Apr 01 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Aw dang :( well I'm not gonna prompt you to lvl your THF to 15 for the sake of one test (It does have other benefits though.. ^^), but if you do it will be much appreciated.

As for the actual test, I was thinking more along the lines of just doing SA + normal melee hit. This is for a couple of reasons:

1/ Theres no mods or as many other factors on a normal hit.
2/ It's faster than building TP, lol.

For the record, for working out mods and stuff for WS, the way that I've seen most people do it even for multi hit weaponskills is to SA + WS lvl 1 mobs, because you can still get all the information you would need from such things on the first hit (If anything, one hit makes it easier as theres less variables).
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Kairyu
75 MNK: The "Star breaker"
75 PUP: The "Master of manipulation"
Asura server

Quote:
Hey now, that "decision-making time" is very useful.
I couldn't decide which movie to see last-week, I put up an Ice Maneuver and BOOM, my automaton immediately figured it out for me.
#7 Apr 01 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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376 posts
this is true. unless someone else has these 2 pieces of gear and want to do the test, i could level it i suppose


EDIT: yay scholar!

alright thf is level 15, i'll do some tests over the weekend. i was thinking, 100 sample size with no +crit, 1 piece of +crit and then both

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 7:17pm by AsashinoTsuki
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#8 Apr 02 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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hurray, i leveled thf to 15 to test this and kparser is busted. so i cant do a real test until it gets updated.

i know how everyone is a big fan of eyeballing. but i took a really small sample and it seems to be about 5% increase each, so +10% crit damage for both. but this is eyeballed with a really small sample, so take that information with a grai....salt shaker until i can do a real test
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#9 Apr 03 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Meh you could do the test without kparser, just do it the old school way (Pen and paper!).

To be honest I'd be happy with even 10 samples of each (Neither piece equipped/hands/body/both), at any rate we would have more concrete evidence from that alone than anything I've seen on the net.
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Kairyu
75 MNK: The "Star breaker"
75 PUP: The "Master of manipulation"
Asura server

Quote:
Hey now, that "decision-making time" is very useful.
I couldn't decide which movie to see last-week, I put up an Ice Maneuver and BOOM, my automaton immediately figured it out for me.
#10 Apr 03 2010 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
What I plan to do is once I have one of them is go out to a fix level nm that spawns constantly.(Limit break 2 nms sound good) Collect my highest and lowests damage for normal attacks. Collect my highest and lowest damage for crits. Then use the hands(First piece ill be getting) and try to find my highest and lowest crit. See how it all lines up.
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#11 Apr 03 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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AsashinoTsuki wrote:
my thf is level 1.. but i suppose i could work on it for the sake of comparison.

but you cant SA multi hit WSs on level 1 mobs because they wont survive the first hit. but i guess you could still get a percent from that data
That's the whole point. You kill it with the first hit 100% of the time and thus remove variables from the equation, making the damage far easier to evaluate.
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#12 Apr 03 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
hurray, i leveled thf to 15 to test this and kparser is busted. so i cant do a real test until it gets updated.


If you installed the latest version over a previous version and it's not running, make sure to update the memloc (0x00581518), or just hit Reset in the Options dialog (and readjust directories if applicable).
#13 Apr 03 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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alright, thanks
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#14 Apr 03 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Really you don't even need to test WSs for the crit bonus. Just melee mobs and look at the crit damage with and without the hands.
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#15 Apr 03 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah the little bit of testing i did was just a single hit. i'll probably work on this when i wake up or something
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#16 Apr 06 2010 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
I just got the hands last night and I am collecting data now. My target of choice is Boreal hound. Fixed level, double damage should make the changes in crit damage easier to identify. Right now my pool for crit without gloves is to small to move on with gloves. Hope to have a rough estimate after more testing when I get home tonight.


(Glares at the-na problem as he died twice last night as his pet was more worried about disease and paralyze)
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#17 Apr 10 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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Did anyone manage to do the testing on this yet?
____________________________
Kairyu
75 MNK: The "Star breaker"
75 PUP: The "Master of manipulation"
Asura server

Quote:
Hey now, that "decision-making time" is very useful.
I couldn't decide which movie to see last-week, I put up an Ice Maneuver and BOOM, my automaton immediately figured it out for me.
#18 Apr 10 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
kairyu wrote:
Did anyone manage to do the testing on this yet?


I started testing and then I skilled up in besiege making my data worthless now. I guess I'll have to wait until I cap.

Take this with a grain of salt becuase I don't have the data myself. But word of mouth from a friend is that he parsed the body against Sky togi. And Shikoku togi parsed 1% better then sky togi on his monk.


Edit: Is there any way I can use a parser to collect the data does anyone know?

Edited, Apr 10th 2010 5:27pm by Laxedrane
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#19 Apr 10 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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kparser collects your average, low and hi critical damage

i havent had a chance to test
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#20 Apr 10 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
AsashinoTsuki wrote:
kparser collects your average, low and hi critical damage

i havent had a chance to test



I just downloaded that the other day I'll give it a shot. How much sample data you think I should get before putting on the other gloves.
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#21 Apr 10 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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personally i was gonna do 100 each
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#22 Apr 10 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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You can also isolate specific targets or mob names in Kparser, meaning you wouldn't ruin data by doing something else, you'd just have to select only the relevant info.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#23 Apr 12 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
My results

 
         Without gloves      With Gloves   Increase 
 
Range:       42                 42 
Median:      241                249           ~3.3% 
Mode:        244                253           ~3.6% 
Average:     240.86             243.12        ~1% 
Lowest:      213                219           ~2.8% 
Highest:     255                261           ~2.3% 
 
Total data:  90                 87


Target: Boreal Hound

There was an anomaly in the without gloves data I took out. According to the parse I scored a 276 critical. This was way out of the range of the other numbers produce and I never beat it with the gloves equipped. I figured this was due to a Dia that didn't wear off before I engaged or a spike with the gloves still on.(Sometimes pet would cast dia. I would turn around and wait for about 2 minutes to make sure it stop taking effect.)
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#24 Apr 12 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
There was an anomaly in the without gloves data I took out. According to the parse I scored a 276 critical. This was way out of the range of the other numbers produce and I never beat it with the gloves equipped.
Well, to me that signifies that you were floating somewhere between 1 and 2 cRatio, meaning that you have a ton of variance in your numbers. Would still be nice to see data on something you're guaranteed to have capped attack on to see if you still get a 2-3% increase on crit damage. Also, with capped attack, you can much more clearly define an increase because you'll see a much more definitive pattern to the numbers you get.

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 12:43pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#25 Apr 12 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
There was an anomaly in the without gloves data I took out. According to the parse I scored a 276 critical. This was way out of the range of the other numbers produce and I never beat it with the gloves equipped.
Well, to me that signifies that you were floating somewhere between 1 and 2 cRatio, meaning that you have a ton of variance in your numbers. Would still be nice to see data on something you're guaranteed to have capped attack on to see if you still get a 2-3% increase on crit damage. Also, with capped attack, you can much more clearly define an increase because you'll see a much more definitive pattern to the numbers you get.

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 12:43pm by bsphil



I'll have another go at it after I cap h2h skill then. I figured boreal hound be a good target since he has a fixed level and respawns quickly. Any suggestions or should I annoy negative level monsters next time and get around 100 crits worth of data?
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#26 Apr 12 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Not really, just go massacre some bunnies.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#27 May 08 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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Minor necro, was there anymore testing done on this set of gear?
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#28 May 09 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Once I get my hands on Shikkoku hands, I'll be doing some testing. I probably won't have them for a while though, I have yet to farm enough gil for ebon hands. :(
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#29 May 12 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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I can go test the body later before sky
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#30 May 12 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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There are two inconsequential points to this post:

1) Laxedrane seems to have vanished, which is unfortunate, because if I had the gear to test it would have been done ages ago but I don't.
2) Seventeen-seventy-seven-seven get.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#31 May 12 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
There are two inconsequential points to this post:

1) Laxedrane seems to have vanished, which is unfortunate, because if I had the gear to test it would have been done ages ago but I don't.
2) Seventeen-seventy-seven-seven get.


Laxedrane got busy with other goals and rl. but if it all that important to everyone ill give hands another go and get data for body. Just felt like no one cared so I felt like, why continue the research haha.(I also have the body now)
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#32 May 12 2010 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
bsphil wrote:
There are two inconsequential points to this post:

1) Laxedrane seems to have vanished, which is unfortunate, because if I had the gear to test it would have been done ages ago but I don't.
2) Seventeen-seventy-seven-seven get.


Laxedrane got busy with other goals and rl. but if it all that important to everyone ill give hands another go and get data for body. Just felt like no one cared so I felt like, why continue the research haha.(I also have the body now)
Ah, that's fair.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#33 May 13 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately it looks like the gloves are probably going to end up being a side~down grade from enkidu's depending on what you're fighting.

A 3% increase in crit damage...likely not critting more than half hits gives you a ~1.5% total damage (and 1 less str). Realistically I'm guessing crit range is significantly lower than 50%.

Compare this to enkidu's that would be giving you 4 more dex, which could push you up to 4% more crit rate depending on what your previous gear was (standard dDex is already around 40) and it would for sure be giving you an fstr (25% more frequency). So 2-4% crit chance given 6 chances to crit would increase the likelihood of another crit by around 8-24%, which would give you ~double damage for a total increase of ~15% per cirt, or 2-3% on average.

If you're fighting things where you can hit 50 dDex easier/naturally, these would definitely be an option for higher potential, however, in most situations where you won't and personally I would lean towards enkidu's 1str, 4dex, and 2acc.
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#34 May 13 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
My results for hands.

Average: 2.7%
Mode: 2.4%
Median: 2.5%

Increase in criticals. Starting body.

All the data/
       No armor.  Gloves    Body 
Range     14        15        17 
Median    120.5    123.5     123 
Mode      124      127       123 
Average   119.45   122.7     121.75 


Body data: Mode: More data needed(Came out lower then no armor)
Median: 2.1%
Average: 1.9%

I venture a guess and say they're both a 2% boost like Moogle hats.

Edited, May 13th 2010 10:30pm by Laxedrane

Edited, May 13th 2010 10:34pm by Laxedrane
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