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Get ready for the wave of noob PUPsFollow

#52 Mar 08 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I will probably start working on some extra stuff then sometime this week. I cantpromise i'll get a lot of work done because of work and classes, but i will try to string together information that is not already covered.
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#53 Mar 15 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Default
22pup/11dnc in a pt with the mage puppet full timing buffoons collar {Found it.} on crabs in quifim.
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#54SamuraiTea, Posted: Mar 16 2010 at 7:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 33 Pups on this morning... ALL the NOOBs are ****.. I never thought it would be like this.. This changes everything, for both Japanese players and us pups...
#55 Mar 16 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Just curious. to those who are worried about how MNK will be after the update..right now I've only seen pup go into salvage when they're just an extra member who wants to go, and helps with early kills b/c of h2h, nothing really serious.

You think with A rank, w/ gear and possibly a boost to the melee pet we could see PUP going into salvage more and play a more useful role?
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Sorry, I didn't know anything in a Squeenix game can be considered common knowledge. :)
#56 Mar 16 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Unclear wrote:
You think with A rank, w/ gear and possibly a boost to the melee pet we could see PUP going into salvage more and play a more useful role?

Depends on what other jobs they have leveled :p
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#57 Mar 16 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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CrimsonSage wrote:
Unclear wrote:
You think with A rank, w/ gear and possibly a boost to the melee pet we could see PUP going into salvage anything more and play a more useful role?
Depends on what other jobs they have leveled :p
Fixed for unfortunate truth.
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#58 Mar 16 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'm going to take all that as a yes.
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#59 Mar 16 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Unclear wrote:
I'm going to take all that as a yes.
You'd be wrong.
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Almalieque wrote:
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#60 Mar 16 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah but what can ya do..oh well sorry I asked.
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#61 Mar 18 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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This is going to be bad. Real bad.

Merit party with this PUP who rushed his way to 75 because of the PUPdate. Sharpshot's ranged damage:

Ranged Damage 
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
Muffin                  292    8.51 %       3/78    3.70 %    87/103    97.33      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %


I honestly did not think you could get a hitrate that poor. I always thought the floor was 20%.

Wow.

I ended up doing 520% more damage than him and his automaton. I mean I'm no slouch on DRG/SAM at birds, but once I start quadrupling someone else's damage I get a tad annoyed.

Edited, Mar 18th 2010 3:15pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#62 Mar 19 2010 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Bsphil wrote:
Hit/Miss 
3/78 

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!?


Burn him plz
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#63 Mar 19 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
This is going to be bad. Real bad.

Merit party with this PUP who rushed his way to 75 because of the PUPdate. Sharpshot's ranged damage:

Ranged Damage 
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
Muffin                  292    8.51 %       3/78    3.70 %    87/103    97.33      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %


I honestly did not think you could get a hitrate that poor. I always thought the floor was 20%.

Wow.

I ended up doing 520% more damage than him and his automaton. I mean I'm no slouch on DRG/SAM at birds, but once I start quadrupling someone else's damage I get a tad annoyed.

[sm]Edited, Mar 18th 2010 3:15pm by bsphil [/.sm]


Who was it? I feel the need to almost get GM'd for harassment for trying to help a pup doitrite... again... this will probably happen several times over the next few weeks.

I also just realized that I am an old old school PUP starting Monday, as I have been around for both PUPdates.
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#64 Mar 19 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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To be fair, there probably were people like that before too. You are just paying more attention to them now.
#65 Mar 19 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
Bsphil's shell use to have a PUP that wore nothing but like full af1 and a weapon to events. So I mean, it exists in different forms, but it also exists on all jobs, super gimped players CAN AND WILL be super gimp.
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#66 Mar 19 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mellowy wrote:
To be fair, there probably were people like that before too. You are just paying more attention to them now.


To be even fairer, a good few jobs in FFXI have had to deal with this the whole "bandwagon" thing at some point and it is never more apparent than when its a job you care a great deal about.

That said

itege wrote:
Who was it? I feel the need to almost get GM'd for harassment for trying to help a pup doitrite... again... this will probably happen several times over the next few weeks.

I also just realized that I am an old old school PUP starting Monday, as I have been around for both PUPdates.


I urge any PUP who has been around a bit to PLEASE don't do this. If someone asks for advice that's one thing, but pushing unwanted advice on someone ingame about the way they are playing a job is the best way to start a fight. Yeah, it will be irksome to no end seeing them play in a fashion that you don't agree with, but antagonizing them will accomplish nothing but

1) You wasting you own time and effort

and/or

2) Get the "help-ee"'s back up and possibly have a mark put against your account when you are reported to a GM for griefing.

And yes, i've seen number 2 happen a few times ingame. Its just not worth it. Not everyone is going to play at your perceived lvl of play, thats a fact. Help when you are asked, walk away when you have to. As long as you personally are playing your best, worrying about the other guy is an exercise in unnecessary frustration

I lvl'd THF back when it was a "lol" job. I put a lot of effort into it and got into a good shell based on the way i played it. And to this day, even though i've moved past that job, when i see a THF full-timing AF pants /NIN with zero shield in sight, i feel like a blood vessel is about to pop in my forehead. But i just sigh, take a deep breath and move along.

Again, i strongly urge long time PUPs to do the same...
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#67 Mar 19 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Mellowy wrote:
To be fair, there probably were people like that before too. You are just paying more attention to them now.
No, I always paid attention to it, because I've always cared about the global impression being imprinted by those who fail miserably at the job. It is in my (and every good PUP's) interest to improve the server's opinion of the job to allow me into more parties and events on PUP. When people are hardly ever exposed to a PUP, and the rare occasions it happens the person fails terribly, they're essentially ensuring that they will never invite a PUP regardless of quality again. While that may not seem fair to those who do a good job, that's how the game works. Terrible SAMs will never lessen someone's opinion of SAM, even if every SAM I've partied with in the last month has been utter ******* terrible (and they have been).

I'm especially critical of PUP though because a bad DRG (for example) will do pretty poor damage, but a bad PUP will do pathetically terrible damage.



Edited, Mar 19th 2010 3:45pm by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#68 Mar 20 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
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I started to level this job because it was the only pet job that seemed interesting since you get direct control over it. I don't see how people gimp this job...I mean, yeah I'm only level 13 atm, but..I dumped 420k into it which is A LOT more than I've dumped into any job pre 30s.

People honestly TRY to be gimped, I can't understand otherwise. There will indeed be a bandwagon, which again (like BLU) will hurt any of the good PUPs that exist because of the mass amount of gimps floating around.

I do find it funny how it's so typical for the community to go from "PUP sucks" to "omfg<3pup" especially after they get a simple update. Guess it will be interesting to see. I just wish more of the better attachments were more common though, gonna be even rare since the offchance they are it's always some gimp who buys it are like:

"lol how do u use attachments?"

I know I had a few tells asking "Why doesn't my maton do anything? I have all of the attachments in my inventoary"




Edited, Mar 20th 2010 3:37am by Theonehio
#69 Mar 22 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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now that its a B+, you think they will still bandwagon?
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#70 Mar 22 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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figster wrote:
now that its a B+, you think they will still bandwagon?
Maybe, but very likely there will be some people who don't level PUP because of it who would have with A h2h.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#71 Mar 24 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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You'd be wrong.


Not entirely, but thanks for playing! I was actually referring to the "correction" from salvage to anything to be useful..and I'm already seeing it. Good luck to the other pup's out there.
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#72 Mar 24 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Mellowy wrote:
To be fair, there probably were people like that before too. You are just paying more attention to them now.
No, I always paid attention to it, because I've always cared about the global impression being imprinted by those who fail miserably at the job. It is in my (and every good PUP's) interest to improve the server's opinion of the job to allow me into more parties and events on PUP. When people are hardly ever exposed to a PUP, and the rare occasions it happens the person fails terribly, they're essentially ensuring that they will never invite a PUP regardless of quality again. While that may not seem fair to those who do a good job, that's how the game works. Terrible SAMs will never lessen someone's opinion of SAM, even if every SAM I've partied with in the last month has been utter dogsh*t terrible (and they have been).

I'm especially critical of PUP though because a bad DRG (for example) will do pretty poor damage, but a bad PUP will do pathetically terrible damage.


I don't think I've ever +1'd before, but bsphil puts this so perfectly. With my two mains being PUP and DRG, this really strikes home. So:

+1
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#73 Mar 24 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
Oh god they are everywhere, with their full campaign armor and their custom m gloves and their full af all at 75. T_T
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#74 Mar 24 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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I finally got to log in to skill up last night. Saw double the amount of PUP 75s than before. New names I wasn't too familiar with so I'm guessing they came from Hades.

I hope the renewed interest in PUP will also translate to better research on gearing PUP properly. I'm not saying get the best gear because I'm far from it, but I hope they at least put a bit of effort and thought into PUP since we will are in the spotlight. This could either make PUPs more accepted or strengthen peoples percerption that PUP sucks even with a B upgrade in h2h.
#75 Mar 25 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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I just arrived on Bismarck from Seraph, so if I'm a new name to you there, that's why. Feel free to /check me, I'm not lol.

Strengthened the PUP job reputation even further last night. My Limbus leader finally said "oh what the heck, bring it" and I went as PUP to Temenos North instead of my usual DRG. Out-parsed all but one DD (a very good DRK), including outparsing all three SAMs. And that's -- as I made clear before the run -- without having capped h2h for the update, and with only 1 automaton merit.

The boosted Auto Repair Kit helped a lot in terms of the expense. Only had to pop two +2's the whole run. Going to pull out PUP again for Dyna on Saturday, looking forward to it -- I'm adding a whole lot of skillups between now and then.

And if you see Shadechaos on Bismarck, that's a Seraph transplant too. Shade is truly made of awesome.

Sure, it's hard to be a bad SAM and easy to be a bad PUP, but it's fairly easy to be a bad DRG and DRK too. In my experience on both DRG and PUP it's a matter of showing people what the job can do when played properly -- the word will get around among those who matter, and they'll start recognizing and ridiculing the bad PUPs too.

You know, a parser is our best offense. It's easy for other DDs to say they're better, but when faced with raw numbers they really can't deny that we need to be taken very seriously.
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#76 Mar 25 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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You ever going to fix that avatar Laverda?
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#77 Mar 25 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
You ever going to fix that avatar Laverda?

You mean fix the total lack of avatar? Yeah, one day I guess. Every time I've thought about it, I've not been able to decide on one. Perhaps I'll do it as a celebration when I hit 1000 posts.
Smiley: flowers
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#78 Mar 25 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
Bsphil, HARMONY HARMONY OH LOVE.


Please note that this was not the originally posted comment.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 7:57pm by itege
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#79 Mar 25 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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You know, a parser is our best offense. It's easy for other DDs to say they're better, but when faced with raw numbers they really can't deny that we need to be taken very seriously.


Actually, it is my experience that, when confronted by a parse that challenges commonly accepted notions, people will try and explain it away as best as they can. "Was the PUP wearing his hip and **** PUP relic gear while the SAM was an loldomaru SAM? I bet he was! That's the only way to explain these findings! That's not fair! You can't judge based on two people not wearing comparable gear!"

I'm sure you are more realistic than that underneath your hopeful-that-others-will-get-it good sense. 6 years on this game have lead me to 1 and only 1 truth about this game: people will try to resist change as best as they can.

The pessimist in me says, at best, people will just throw their hands in the air and say "Eh, not many people are PUP anyway. I don't need to know this."

Quote:
Terrible SAMs will never lessen someone's opinion of SAM, even if every SAM I've partied with in the last month has been utter dogsh*t terrible (and they have been).


+1. It's astounding how the job (and the nitwits who play it) gets such credibility for damage dealing. Every time I join an Assault run or various other activities, if a DD has SAM, DRG, DRK, WAR, etc, the leader almost unanimously tells them to be a SAM, even if DRK might make more sense if bases are not covered (you know...like Stun...Stun is actually kind of important, despite the dismissal of it).

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 11:21pm by Ketaru
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#80 Apr 13 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm personally trying to come back to FFXI (having some installation issues) just to play PUP and maybe SMN.

Been playing WoW exclusively for awhile now and I miss the emphasis on the Pet that FFXI has, at least for a couple jobs. BST, PUP and SMN are all very "pet heavy" jobs, and nothing in WoW is like that. It's all about the "master's" dps.

So, I'm trying to come back to FFXI specifically for PUP. And then I noticed that FFXIclopedia (or some site, don't remember) had PUP H2H skill at B+, when I thought it used to be in the C range. That was kinda cool to me. I was always a bit disappointed in the super low H2H skill, even though my Sharpshot PUP was kicking **** for me when I used to play.

So, from the viewpoint of one who's coming back to FFXI and PUP specifically for the feel of my "Pet" being a huge focus, the increased H2H skill, to me, is just another bonus.
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