Did we do smeothing wrong, SE?Follow

Looks like COR finally has a nerf coming.

Miser's roll is being rendered useless (at least for ranged attackers and 2H jobs) by converting to a "minimum guaranteed return" rather than an additive return. So basically if you have a Save TP effect of 20 and have a WS that gets 20 TP in return, you get no benefit unless you miss that WS (and really what 2 H misses?).

That's very kind of SE to take the major reason COR's are invited to VW and other events and totally destroy it.

Having gone through the RNG nerf years back and having spent millions of gil levleling both COR and RNG over the years, I can't tell you how much this totally frustrates me.

Only side benefit I see is the reversal of the bandwagon COR effect that seemed to be happening. Was that really such a problem SE?

for the hell of it, tell me what these abilities do, and i'll use "the math" and tell you if the nerf matters. p.s. i'm drunk, so please either PM me to remind that i made this post, or respond something really memorable, quickly. good luck with the nerf!

Using ffxi calculator, I plugged some numbers into it for a typical setup using a war with a 504 delay gaxe and enough storetp in gear/sam sj to give them a basic 6hit, or rather a 5hit + ws tp, with a 3hit ws (15+19 storetp to achieve the basic hit build).

Without sam/hat enhancing the sam roll, all rolls except 1 and 6 remove a single hit to 100tp after ws. With sam/hat boost, all rolls remove a single hit, and 11 now removes two.

Assuming you get 11 with sam boost, you get 25.2 tp per hit. 18.3 without roll.

Going with ukon's delay, 482, and ukko's base 2hits on ws, the basic hit build remains. Pushing to 15+38 storetp gear though removes a hit. Keeping this, and using rolls without the sam/hat boost, no roll removes a hit except 11. With boost, 2 and 11 remove a hit. Base tp hit without roll is 19.8 and 26.3 with perfect roll.

This is with the ffxi calculator 4.10. It certainly does help, but not as much as we'd hope. The war in question would need specific gear and you'd need to get sam bonus and roll either 2 or 11 for it to even help, though this is assuming no outside sources of regain. Without that specific gear though and it helps a bit more (like going from tactical mantle to atheling, all rolls except 6 put you back to where that tact mantle had you before and perfect roll still pushes you up). If you toss in tact+atmacite+monarch's then any roll will likely shave off a hit to 100tp since it'd just have to tick once to cover that ground.


Now that's all for a war with ukon, how about on an emp cor?

Assuming emp gun 582delay, 240delay bullet, and /sam+loki's+rose strap for 15+11 storetp (just assume we're using loki's for tp and not using quickdraw here). This puts us at a 5hit build.

Unboosted sam rolls: only 2 and 11 remove a hit. Boosted sam rolls: 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 remove a hit. Combine with tact+atmacite+monarch's and you'll probably get an extra hit removed on some of those due to shooting time. Base tp per hit without roll is 20.9, 29.2 with perfect roll, and 25.2 with 7+boost. Again, this is with ffxi calc 4.10, haven't logged in a couple days so I can't see if it's this way in game, but it seems right (also looking at this thread from the rng forum: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=261&mid=127897977681588297&h=50 ).

It's still not ws, qd, ws, shoot, ws, qd, ws, shoot, ws, etc, but it's pretty close and at least useful everywhere. Still sucks that miser's will go into the pile of not so useful rolls we have.

Again, this doesn't make logical sense. If SE didn't think it was broken, why would they worry about the perceived notion of brokenness? Why would they not want COR to use their shiny new rolls at high levels? They were the ones that provided a Save TP atmacite after charging CORs 100,000 gil for Misers roll. They knew what it would do. To play the "oops, we want you to roll a level 60 roll rather than a level 90 roll in endgame, sorry" card is pretty asinine.

And besides, the only complaints of brokenness I saw were the "lol this is a nice buff" kind of way. Not "it's ruining the game" kind of way. Just like we mention that WHM is broken but are glad it is.

In the end, if it wasn't broken there was no good reason to nerf it since COR's spent good gil on this roll. If it was broken, then making it worse than an old roll certainly was a poor fix since COR"s spent good gil on this roll. Either way, SE are being asses.

I'm a bit late, but I was out of town the last couple of weeks. I think Zelduh is missing a few of the advantages of the current Miser's Roll over Sam Roll.

First is versatility. SAM roll obviously doesn't benefit all jobs equally, low-delay weapons being the obvious example. Miser's gives the same TP bonus to all jobs, helping all DDs equally.

Second is consistency. As explained by orinthia above, there are many cases where even 2-handed jobs won't gain anything unless you roll lucky or 11. Barring an unlucky roll, Miser's is beneficial to all DDs no matter what is rolled.

Third is situation. With virtually all our new content, strategies revolve around the DDs running to the mob, trying a WS proc, then GTFO. No amount of STP is going to help when you're not actively attacking the mob.

tl;dr: There's a reason SAM roll wasn't the standard go-to, end-all roll in the past, but yes it was situationally awesome as it still is. I guess it's a moot point to argue though, since Miser's will soon be changing.

Is there a way to get enough Store TP to get 55 TP after a WS? Max Save TP is 45 with atmacite and XI Misers. I thought even a pimped out SAM couldn't get that high. If you had a 20 TP return WS it would need 200 Store TP to get to 60 TP return.

In any event the proper fix was to maximize TP returned after a WS to 50 or 60 and be done with it.