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Time to Merit AGI?Follow

#1 Dec 11 2011 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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So we get more attribute merits this update. Thus far I've put virtually all of them into STR being a Mithra character.

But as a COR main with a bit of RNG on the side, I was wondering if its not worthwhile to start putting some into AGI.

Rationale:
1) STR does nothing for Wildfire or QD, two of our most potent damaging abilities
2) AGI is a major modifier for Wildfire
3) AGI helps QD acc
4) AGI also improves ranged acc and improves subtle blow
5) Last Stand, which appears to be an improvement over slug at 5/5, has 100% AGI modifier

So is it time to boost the MIthra advantage even further, or does the fSTR on ranged attacks and physical weapon skills still make STR a worthy investment?
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#2 Dec 11 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Default
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Really if you have Wildfire, then yes Agil merits are worth it. Your going to increase Last Stand damage, Wildfire damage, and Dagger weaponskill damage as well (forget the name of the new thf dagger ws); dont forget lolqd acc as well.

Last stand is better then slug and det so theres not really any more reason to keep str merits around, especially if your a COR main.

Sad part is there are fewer and fewer cors that are even remotely good at the job these days. I havent seen A cor outside of maybe 2 others on my server (one having death penalty) that arent useing a miramir gun, /whm, and in full nq af3,af2 or useing some retarded *** level 70 swords.

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#3 Dec 11 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm more disappointed in the 90 Empyrean COR that is /WHM, which is the norm amongst the JP COR population.

COR has become useful in VWNM with tacticians/misers and its procs, but few are optimizing damage and are instead sitting back and "helping out". There are definitely fights where COR damage is important like Pil.

But I've definitely seen a surge in COR interest with VWNM. Last night in JP primetime there were 55 COR and 56 SAM on the server. Quite a change from the height of ToAU. Of course the COR were 90% /WHM.

But back on topic, I certainly am heavily leaning to AGI merits. Will keep what I have in STR and just make the new ones AGI.
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#4 Dec 14 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Despite having 85 Armageddon, I can't justify AGI merits. 85 Ukko's and War being my main ahead of COR warrant keeping my merits in STR. Plus now I can stop being at 20/20 for the first time in a year, so it will be a while before I start toying with merit switching.
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#5 Dec 14 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess it depends on your main jobs.
I will be keeping merits in STR largely because as a Mithra character I'm STR challenged to begin with and they do help on BLU.
But since I consider myself a COR main/ RNG alt-main, mixing in some added AGI makes some sense at this point (for teh reasons listed above).

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for anyone that boasts a heavy DD job like WAR, SAM, DRG, etc as a alternate main job.
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#6 Dec 14 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
So we get more attribute merits this update. Thus far I've put virtually all of them into STR being a Mithra character.

But as a COR main with a bit of RNG on the side, I was wondering if its not worthwhile to start putting some into AGI.

Rationale:
1) STR does nothing for Wildfire or QD, two of our most potent damaging abilities
2) AGI is a major modifier for Wildfire
3) AGI helps QD acc
4) AGI also improves ranged acc and improves subtle blow
5) Last Stand, which appears to be an improvement over slug at 5/5, has 100% AGI modifier

So is it time to boost the MIthra advantage even further, or does the fSTR on ranged attacks and physical weapon skills still make STR a worthy investment?



I have 5/5 AGI before it increased to 8, after the certain update I did 6/8 AGI 2/8 STR, then after a while changed to 8/8 AGI, and loved it ever since.

I'm probably gonna put 4 merit into STR this update though, the main reason is because my BLU's dmg falls way behind other ppl without STR merit, and I play BLU way more than COR. STR also helps last stand since it's physical WS anyways.

#7 Dec 14 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
I'm more disappointed in the 90 Empyrean COR that is /WHM, which is the norm amongst the JP COR population.

COR has become useful in VWNM with tacticians/misers and its procs, but few are optimizing damage and are instead sitting back and "helping out". There are definitely fights where COR damage is important like Pil.

But I've definitely seen a surge in COR interest with VWNM. Last night in JP primetime there were 55 COR and 56 SAM on the server. Quite a change from the height of ToAU. Of course the COR were 90% /WHM.

But back on topic, I certainly am heavily leaning to AGI merits. Will keep what I have in STR and just make the new ones AGI.




Seriously what's this anti-/WHM going on for years all about? I love the versatility of /mage, it's just a tool to help you out when oh sh*t moment occurs and you need extra cure/erase/-na/SS/magic def bonus/raise/RR and so on. Is it really such a big deal to lose 3 min meditate/store TP/5 min sek in none-zerging situations?


And as "sitting back and help out", plenty of Pil NA /shout pt still full of death and what not, and isn't "helping out" the main purpose of playing this job in the first place?

You can still do dmg with /WHM, just equip your DD gear and do dmg like usual. If oh sh*t moment happens and you happened to need MP, put on MP gear and use ether? Since it's oh-sh*t moment isn't helping out the pt better than doing dmg? /WHM just offers extra tool to handle the oh-sh*t situations, such WHM got drawn-in and stoned and such(and yes it could happen), why is it so bad to "help out others"?

JPs have very different mentality when playing this game compare with NAs. If you join their VW pt you'll know, they never put dmg output on first priority. You will see Ukko WAR not using Ukon but using other weapons because he's trying for proc, even though there are other jobs that can do the proc as well. They're willing to sacrifice personal dmg output in every way to ensure things get going well. Most of the ppl I know who've joined JP /shout VW pt only admire the how they do things and how smooth it went.

I'm not saying COR dmg isn't important, but there's a balance. I don't always /WHM personally since I'm more of a DD player, but there are a few times in my life that I regret not /WHM and not having the tools to deal with the ******* moment. For me there are no reason to look down ppl who /WHM IMO.



Edited, Dec 14th 2011 6:42pm by Afania
#8 Dec 15 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Don't want to get into a big /WHM argument, as its largely a personal opinion. But if you want to go /WHM to a particular difficult VW fight, that clearly needs a lot of -na and erase, that's fine. But I see JP COR/WHM in dynamis and Abyssea all the time where there really is no need for it. They're /WHM because they've always been /WHM and never will change because to them the job is a BRD. Despite the fact that you can COR/RDM or /SAM in Abyssea and outdamage half the DD's with an Armageddon. Or COR/DNC in Dynamis and help more with procs all the while still healing and erasing status ailments.

If sea all COR only brought up COR in VW sites rocking /WHM I wouldn't be so offended.

And as far as "oh Sh#t" moments go, by the time I put on MP gear and swallow a couple ethers, the moments largely resolved or gone too far down the crapper.

And as I've stated before, my biggest fear is that someday SE will see all these COR/WHM and just quit designing the job for damage and design it as BRD. Robes, MP gear, cure potency, fast cast on all our 99 gear. <shudder>.
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Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
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#9 Dec 15 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Perhaps this is a silly question, but unless the fight is very specifically a status removal spree, what advantage would /whm offer over /rdm?

/rdm should now have Cure IV and Haste, and the MAB trait helps with Wildfire/QD. Am I missing something?
#10 Dec 16 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Perhaps this is a silly question, but unless the fight is very specifically a status removal spree, what advantage would /whm offer over /rdm?

/rdm should now have Cure IV and Haste, and the MAB trait helps with Wildfire/QD. Am I missing something?


It will be interesting if the JP switch at 99 to COR/RDM, but I predict they will still COR/WHM for 99% of what they do. It's so ingrained despite the tools SE gives COR to avoid that particular sub.
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Race: Mithra
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#11 Dec 19 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
Perhaps this is a silly question, but unless the fight is very specifically a status removal spree, what advantage would /whm offer over /rdm?

/rdm should now have Cure IV and Haste, and the MAB trait helps with Wildfire/QD. Am I missing something?




You just ans your own question in first sentence ;)
#12 Dec 20 2011 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
I'm more disappointed in the 90 Empyrean COR that is /WHM, which is the norm amongst the JP COR population.

COR has become useful in VWNM with tacticians/misers and its procs, but few are optimizing damage and are instead sitting back and "helping out". There are definitely fights where COR damage is important like Pil.

But I've definitely seen a surge in COR interest with VWNM. Last night in JP primetime there were 55 COR and 56 SAM on the server. Quite a change from the height of ToAU. Of course the COR were 90% /WHM.

But back on topic, I certainly am heavily leaning to AGI merits. Will keep what I have in STR and just make the new ones AGI.


I can raise you much worse than the /whm rocking a trump gun and light staff brigade who never actually cast any spells from their mage subjob... there's a 95 COR (hope to god he doesn't get a limit break party) rocking a /35NIN subjob who doesn't own any rolls bar hunter's roll and only has cyclone as his best dagger weaponskill doing the rounds on Quetz at present. Mind you - at least he has a gun equipped - which is progress on many fronts.
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#14 Feb 17 2012 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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Zelduh wrote:


4 STR is going to make you fall "way behind" other people? 4 STR isn't even remotely noticeable >_> And definitely not gamebreaking or huge or anything. It'd help, sure, but it's certainly not necessary or demanded for the job to be able to perform without being way behind of anyone.



Sure, or you can as well argue that +7 stat ring isn't necessary to play the job and just stick with +3 rings, and so on. So why are we spending 1 mil on a +7 stat ring when we can just settle with +3. What a waste of time and money!



#15 Feb 18 2012 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Afania wrote:
Zelduh wrote:


4 STR is going to make you fall "way behind" other people? 4 STR isn't even remotely noticeable >_> And definitely not gamebreaking or huge or anything. It'd help, sure, but it's certainly not necessary or demanded for the job to be able to perform without being way behind of anyone.



Sure, or you can as well argue that +7 stat ring isn't necessary to play the job and just stick with +3 rings, and so on. So why are we spending 1 mil on a +7 stat ring when we can just settle with +3. What a waste of time and money!





Well admittedly FFXI elitists have never been into value. For instance Reavers grip. 10k for 1AGI, 1 million for 2AGI.

I can't recall how many times I've finally obtained a rare or expensive piece of gear only to be totally underwhelmed with it effect on damage output.
Stat items in particular. Earrings in general. And yet people will spend big money on these items to appear to have the best gear in front of their fellow players.

But use any of the WS calculators and it's apparent hat small amounts of + stats do very little.

Nonetheless since merits are so cheap, you should bump your stats up if you can. STR and AGI are the best options for COR. Likely matters only a bit which one you emphasize.
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#17 Feb 20 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:


Stat items in particular. Earrings in general. And yet people will spend big money on these items to appear to have the best gear in front of their fellow players.




Zelduh wrote:
I guess every tarutaru in the game should quit any job except BLM since they'll be soooooooo behind on STR that they'll be completely useless. >_>


Huh.


You can't change race once you picked it, so there isn't anything ppl can do. You can do something about your merit and stat+3 rings, that's the difference.


How about we don't play the game at all and just afk in Jeuno all day, don't do any events like VW Abyssea Neo dyna, since you can get the job done without those gears ;D




And no, I don't agree with your opinion about ppl spend big money on these items "to appear to have the best gear in front of their fellow players". I just find it fun to try and push the limit/potential of the job and don't care jack about what others think. Since there isn't anything else to do in this game except gear grind anyways, as I've beat almost every game content besides new nyzul impossible. I felt a sense of accomplishment when I'm able to break 4.4k last stand on Pil on this job(which I previously think isn't possible on COR), even if nobody else cares, I find it fun. And I enjoy seeing other player try and pushing the potential and sets a standard as well, so I can learn from them. I mean, what's the point to do any event at all if you don't enjoy seeing big numbers/parse after obtaining all the gears?


There are ppl trying to challenge themselves everyday, some by soloing impossible stuff, some by challenging impossible content(like Neo nyzul F100), some by pushing the dmg output in VW by building different gear sets. Some just play the game with friends and have fun. Why don't you just respect others who likes to play the job to most potential? If you just want to get the job done with stat +3 rings, fine. But respect other's who spend mil on +7 rings too. Spending mils on stat +7 rings is just an attitude of taking the job seriously, of trying to do better, instead of the attitude of get the job done and gtfo. And those player who takes the job seriously often has higher performance and efficiency in events too, and often more trust worthy. Sometimes that's also the difference between wiping to B.rex or winning in 3 min. I've made enough B.rex pt(killed it nearly 70 times for athos's body) and /shout VW pt in general, to tell the difference between pt with players taking things seriously v.s have get the job done attitude, guess what? Difference is huge. I still run into WHMs has no boost AGI spells(a 10k spell) and 20% cure potency in /shout everyday. I still run into ppl tried to get invite by lying about their skill level and doing dirty tricks, and made the fight unnecessary harder. When harder content like Neo nyzul or B.rex kicks in, get the job done attitude player will have harder time to beat it.

If you only want to get the job done with stat +3 rings, that's fine, it's none of my business. But really, elitist card is easy to play.









Edited, Feb 20th 2012 6:03pm by Afania
#19 Feb 20 2012 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've made enough B.rex pt(killed it nearly 70 times for athos's body) and /shout VW pt in general, to tell the difference between pt with players taking things seriously v.s have get the job done attitude, guess what? Difference is huge.


I don't have a problem with those people that want to maximize their avatars. As long as they don't look down on those that are not quite into that degree of stat boosting. I would disagree that the difference is that Huge between the min maxers and the "get the job done" folks. A get the job done is someone that gets the job done. I put myself in that category. I don't always have the best gear but am always working towards it. If I find my gear is limiting me from completing an event I will not do the event until my gear is good enough to complete it. So far I've never had a problem not completing an event I've set out to accomplish. And really thats all the game is about. Completing tasks and hopefully having fun doing so.

Admittedly us "get it done" folks may take a bit longer and may not get it done with as much style. We might struggle a bit and have to revise strategies that work better for the elite. But I think that makes you a better player in the end. Having the flexibility to adapt and still come out victorious.

While I admire your 4.4k Last Stand, I also know that buffs, atmacites and food likely had more to do with the number than gear. Again, fool around with the WS calculators some day and you realize the biggest jumps don't come from +7 stat rings but from RATT food, Minuets, Chaos and defense down debuffs on the mob.
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#20 Feb 21 2012 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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double post

Edited, Feb 21st 2012 6:36am by Afania
#21 Feb 21 2012 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I've made enough B.rex pt(killed it nearly 70 times for athos's body) and /shout VW pt in general, to tell the difference between pt with players taking things seriously v.s have get the job done attitude, guess what? Difference is huge.


I don't have a problem with those people that want to maximize their avatars. As long as they don't look down on those that are not quite into that degree of stat boosting. I would disagree that the difference is that Huge between the min maxers and the "get the job done" folks. A get the job done is someone that gets the job done. I put myself in that category. I don't always have the best gear but am always working towards it. If I find my gear is limiting me from completing an event I will not do the event until my gear is good enough to complete it. So far I've never had a problem not completing an event I've set out to accomplish. And really thats all the game is about. Completing tasks and hopefully having fun doing so.

Admittedly us "get it done" folks may take a bit longer and may not get it done with as much style. We might struggle a bit and have to revise strategies that work better for the elite. But I think that makes you a better player in the end. Having the flexibility to adapt and still come out victorious.

While I admire your 4.4k Last Stand, I also know that buffs, atmacites and food likely had more to do with the number than gear. Again, fool around with the WS calculators some day and you realize the biggest jumps don't come from +7 stat rings but from RATT food, Minuets, Chaos and defense down debuffs on the mob.


I don't "look down" to those using stat +3 rings, but if I make a pt, I value everyone's time, and I'd want the pt to win and go well. Using stat +3 ring can get the job done sure, but that's not respecting everyone else's time and effort, when they all contribute more. It's really not "look down on others" or "Trying to show off to fellow players", but rather a responsible attitude that trying to do the best for the sake of entire pt. Therefore I don't really agree with paying 1M for +1 stat is elitism attitude and just trying to show off. I mean, if player A with stat +7 ring pt with player with stat +3 ring, player A is the one paying 1M while player B doesn't pay as much but still get clear. Obviously player B has no right to whine about ppl "look down" on his +3 rings when everyone else doing more to the pt.


I guess my definition of "get the job done" is different from yours. Countless times when I made pt for harder events like Neo Nyzul or B.rex, there are always ppl that try to get invite and lied to me about their stat, and ended up doing very subpar dmg(like 200 dmg thundaja on B.rex, or near naked WHM etc) and causing wipe/fail, and that's wasting everyone's time.

If your "get the job done" definition is to get things done, as this game starting to heading to more hardcore direction(new nyzul for example, and I heard legion is hard too), the standard will get higher as well, as only 1% of player base can reach F100.

And yes, doing dmg is mostly about buffs/food/atmacite and gear too, and not entirely very hard to do as long as ppl try. Doing dmg also greatly affects outcome of VW/neo nyzul no joke. However a lot of players doesn't really care that much and wasn't really trying, and this happens a lot especially on this job(probably on other jobs too), which just kinda sad IMO. According to my experience, those player with top performance in pt often has something to do with their attitude, of wanting to improve the dmg by studying parse, keep doing research and keep getting better and better, rather then just be "good enough".

I still see a lot of CORs spam WF in Toci, don't use roll rotation to keep most beneficial buff on himself, or rather save cruor for atmacite and refuse to use atmacite and so on. What should I say to them? If I tell them stop gimping your job next thing they call me elitist, "look down on other ppl" "I just play the game for fun" etc. Elitist sure is easy to label, and a nice excuse to be a leech in /shout pt.


#22 Feb 21 2012 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I guess my definition of "get the job done" is different from yours. Countless times when I made pt for harder events like Neo Nyzul or B.rex, there are always ppl that try to get invite and lied to me about their stat, and ended up doing very subpar dmg(like 200 dmg thundaja on B.rex, or near naked WHM etc) and causing wipe/fail, and that's wasting everyone's time.


Yes our definitions must be different. My "get the job done" person doesn't wear +3 stat rings because that degree of disinterest doesn't "get the job done". I look at my WHM which I used to get most of my Empy for COR. It has reasonable gear with 48% Cure potency, some haste and fast cast and I have decent healing atmas and have healing/enhancing/enfeebling skills above 350. It "gets the job done" in Abyssea, but I wouldn't take it out for a high level VW run as I think it needs a lot of work (which I don't care about since I only levelled it to contribute to my empy party).

Similarly I can bring my COR out to any VW group as its only missing a few pieces to be top tier but other jobs I have wouldn't past the muster so I wouldn't offer them to a VW PUG.

There is room in the game for B+ players. These people have a +5 stat ring, or an NQ Ocelomeh headpiece, or maybe a piece ot two of AF3 that is only +1. They may have a haste build that is 2-3% off cap. They are a little off from elite but still have good gear and know their job. There isn't that much in the game other than Neo-Nyzul and perhaps some upper tier VW that can't be done with those types of players. But there are C type players with the +3 stat rings that definitely don't get the job done. That's a different category IMO.
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