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Sep. 19 update: double-up, XI effect changesFollow

#1 Sep 19 2011 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Square-Enix wrote:
The recast time for the corsair ability Double Up has been shortened from seven seconds to five.
The effect for rolling 11 with the corsairs' Phantom Rolls has been altered.


Very nice change to Double-up, as with the ability to bust on XIs without fear, waiting on Double-up timer was actually a significant hindrance to re-rolling. Especially for people like me with PR Recast merits and/or ASA legs.

I'm terrified but hopeful re: the change to 11 roll effects.
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#2 Sep 19 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Double up change is welcome.
What did they do to XI's?
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#3 Sep 19 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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They made it sparkle..... lol....
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#4 Sep 20 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Is the sound effect new? Because last night I had a cor in a pt and when they rolled a XI a sound played sounding similar like brd's job emote.
#5 Sep 20 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Spikido wrote:
They made it sparkle..... lol....


LMAO, oh they mean VISUAL effects. Not a substantive change XD

Anyhow, the reduction in Double-up recast is very welcome. Looks like S-E might have actually been paying attention to the comments from players, as I saw the recast timer mentioned several times. 5 seconds seems perfectly fair.

And yet again, another legitimate reason to go for PR Recast merits over QD Acc (which I feel are largely unnecessary these days). Shorter Double up timer, faster busting when shooting for good rolls with an active XI, more reason to want to have PR up faster to re-roll.

I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.
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#6 Sep 20 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're welcome. Smiley: cool

In all seriousness, I have no idea if they actually implemented this because of my suggestion or if they were already planning it, but I'm going to pretend it was me because it's good for my ego. Smiley: laugh
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#7 Sep 20 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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Chew for president! Best idea ever. I'm also gonna give you credit lol

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#8 Sep 20 2011 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.


ASA legs totally unecessary in that situation. I spent several hours in a party just constantly rolling XI's on Tacticians and Wizards (just to see if I could keep the streak). Only once in all that time was there ever more than one second left on PR recast. And that was with constant rolling to get the next roll up or busted. No breaks to shoot a QD or WS between double ups.

I do love the new double up timer. Its up as soon as I've seen the roll number and determined whether I should stay or hit.
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#9 Sep 21 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
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I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.


ASA legs totally unecessary in that situation. I spent several hours in a party just constantly rolling XI's on Tacticians and Wizards (just to see if I could keep the streak). Only once in all that time was there ever more than one second left on PR recast. And that was with constant rolling to get the next roll up or busted. No breaks to shoot a QD or WS between double ups.
If you bust after 1-3 Double-Ups there's going to be more than 1 second left on PR recast. I have 5/5 merits but no leg augment, and I often have to wait 7+ seconds to try rolling again after a bust, even under 11's effect. This is even more frequent after the DU recast reduction.

...or maybe you're reallllllly slow at rolling.
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#10 Sep 21 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Nope was rolling back to back (with new double up recast) and never had it happen in over over 2 hours of constantly rolling Xi's on Wizards and Tacticians.

Of course I never had a VI back to back issue like I've sometimes seen. But PR was there everytime I needed it to be in what amounts to a 40 roll sample.
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#11 Sep 21 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I never play COR in a true rolling way these days, since im dual boxing a whm constantly. Just seems a bit meh on the update is all.
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#12 Sep 21 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
I guess I never play COR in a true rolling way these days, since im dual boxing a whm constantly. Just seems a bit meh on the update is all.


I don't do it that much either, but gave it a go in a Dom Ops party just to see how the constant XIs thing worked. Probably lowered my damage over all since I spent so much time rolling and not engaging. Few times it took almost the whole 5 min to get that next XI. Just bust after bust after bust.
Definitely think the XI thing is nice but its not going to noticeably change my playstyle in the long run.
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#13 Sep 22 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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In my opinion, 'forcing' 11s seems to be a bit counter-productive. All that time spent busting and rerolling is time that your party members are making due with sub-par or no buff. In the long run, the party would have been better off if you had just stopped when it was a decent roll.

Sure, it's great to keep that 11 effect on yourself, and doing so helps more 11s happen, but if luck isn't on your side you're better off just sticking with what we've always done in the past.

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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#14 Sep 23 2011 at 5:37 AM Rating: Excellent
The way I handle Cor rolls is I will not double up under any circumstances if I reach 7. If it's 1-6 I'll always take the chance, but if it's 7 or higher I won't risk the bust. Unfortunately it seems like every time I double up on a 6, even though the odds should be in favor of me not busting, I'll always roll a second 6 and bust.
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#15 Sep 23 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
The way I handle Cor rolls is I will not double up under any circumstances if I reach 7. If it's 1-6 I'll always take the chance, but if it's 7 or higher I won't risk the bust. Unfortunately it seems like every time I double up on a 6, even though the odds should be in favor of me not busting, I'll always roll a second 6 and bust.



Of course this is old classic style rolling. Roll on 6's and only roll on 7's if they are the unlucky number.

With the new XI thing in place, my roll strategy is more to be a bit aggressive at first if I have snake eye and fold up to get that first XI. Then use that XI ti ensure a lucky/10/11 roll as the next roll. Then whenever fold and snake eye are up again, try to aggressively get that XI if possible. Trying to keep a streak of XI's is possible but you do spend way more time rolling than is probably of value.
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#16 Sep 23 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I messed around with the new roll stuff and it is pretty nice, but the problem si the rolls are to short. They should go back to 10 minute 11s with this system and it would fit perfectly.
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#17 Sep 24 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.


ASA legs totally unecessary in that situation. I spent several hours in a party just constantly rolling XI's on Tacticians and Wizards (just to see if I could keep the streak). Only once in all that time was there ever more than one second left on PR recast. And that was with constant rolling to get the next roll up or busted. No breaks to shoot a QD or WS between double ups.


6, 6 (bust)? That should leave you with PLENTY more than one second left on PR recast no matter what merits/gear you're using. If I'm rolling quickly, and I bust on the second double-up, there is also a slight lag even with my 15sec recast.

The biggest benefit of ASA legs is in getting that INITIAL XI, because if you don't get it right away you get to do your next roll sooner. But lower recast does help at least a small bit even when you already have an XI and you're busting away. And besides, it's not like it hurts - I'm already macroing in other stuff for PR (Nav+2 hands, Commodore hat, roll-specific Nav pieces), so why not add them? I wasn't going to use the ASA legs for anything else anyway, so PR-5 is better than PR-0. And some people may be reluctant to give up QD Acc merits (I'm not one of them) - for them it's even more useful to get some recast reduction through gear.
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#18 Sep 24 2011 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Anza wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.


ASA legs totally unecessary in that situation. I spent several hours in a party just constantly rolling XI's on Tacticians and Wizards (just to see if I could keep the streak). Only once in all that time was there ever more than one second left on PR recast. And that was with constant rolling to get the next roll up or busted. No breaks to shoot a QD or WS between double ups.


6, 6 (bust)? That should leave you with PLENTY more than one second left on PR recast no matter what merits/gear you're using. If I'm rolling quickly, and I bust on the second double-up, there is also a slight lag even with my 15sec recast.

The biggest benefit of ASA legs is in getting that INITIAL XI, because if you don't get it right away you get to do your next roll sooner. But lower recast does help at least a small bit even when you already have an XI and you're busting away. And besides, it's not like it hurts - I'm already macroing in other stuff for PR (Nav+2 hands, Commodore hat, roll-specific Nav pieces), so why not add them? I wasn't going to use the ASA legs for anything else anyway, so PR-5 is better than PR-0. And some people may be reluctant to give up QD Acc merits (I'm not one of them) - for them it's even more useful to get some recast reduction through gear.


I only said the ASA legs were unnecessary whe you already had an XI roll up. Other situations I can see some usefulness. But 15sec vs 20 sec PR recast when you have an XI up. You'd have to run back to back 6's fairly often. In my experience as noted above it was rare and never happened in 2 hours of rolling.
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#19 Sep 24 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
Anza wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I'm definitely addicted to my 15 second PR recast on XI, with 5/5 merits and ASA legs. Wouldn't think of going back.


ASA legs totally unecessary in that situation. I spent several hours in a party just constantly rolling XI's on Tacticians and Wizards (just to see if I could keep the streak). Only once in all that time was there ever more than one second left on PR recast. And that was with constant rolling to get the next roll up or busted. No breaks to shoot a QD or WS between double ups.


6, 6 (bust)? That should leave you with PLENTY more than one second left on PR recast no matter what merits/gear you're using. If I'm rolling quickly, and I bust on the second double-up, there is also a slight lag even with my 15sec recast.

The biggest benefit of ASA legs is in getting that INITIAL XI, because if you don't get it right away you get to do your next roll sooner. But lower recast does help at least a small bit even when you already have an XI and you're busting away. And besides, it's not like it hurts - I'm already macroing in other stuff for PR (Nav+2 hands, Commodore hat, roll-specific Nav pieces), so why not add them? I wasn't going to use the ASA legs for anything else anyway, so PR-5 is better than PR-0. And some people may be reluctant to give up QD Acc merits (I'm not one of them) - for them it's even more useful to get some recast reduction through gear.


I only said the ASA legs were unnecessary whe you already had an XI roll up. Other situations I can see some usefulness. But 15sec vs 20 sec PR recast when you have an XI up. You'd have to run back to back 6's fairly often. In my experience as noted above it was rare and never happened in 2 hours of rolling.

I've been paying attention to my PR recast the last few days since you said this, and I'm convinced that you must roll slower than my Grandmother drives. When I bust while I already have an 11, I see over 5 seconds or more left on PR the vast majority of the time. The only times I see 1 second recast or less is if it took me more than 3-4 Double-Ups before busting.

Edited, Sep 24th 2011 8:42pm by Chewzer
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#20 Sep 25 2011 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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Chewzer the Tulip wrote:
I've been paying attention to my PR recast the last few days since you said this, and I'm convinced that you must roll slower than my Grandmother drives. When I bust while I already have an 11, I see over 5 seconds or more left on PR the vast majority of the time. The only times I see 1 second recast or less is if it took me more than 3-4 Double-Ups before busting.


Agreed. Let's say someone has a full 5/5 PR merits and an active XI (meaning 20sec PR recast), is shooting for XI on a new roll, and does the following roll sequence:

0:00: Initial Roll, roll a 4
0:01: Immediate double-up, roll is 5, leaving you on unlucky 9
0:07: Double-up, roll is 3-6, BUST (and note I gave an extra second after double-up timer should be up to account for lag, slow player reaction, etc)

That means you have a full 13 seconds to wait on the PR timer... and that doesn't sound like a highly unlikely set of rolls at all. Add 2 more seconds for every PR recast merit you don't have, so someone who didn't merit PR is sitting at 23 seconds until PR is up again. And that was starting with an XI in hand!

To say ASA legs are "unnecessary" in such a situation sounds completely off base to me - why would you not want to be able to re-roll 5 seconds sooner?

Even if you were comfortable staying on a lucky 5 (say it was Wizard's, Tactician's, Fighter's, whatever) and took a second or two to confirm the initial roll before your first double-up... that's STILL a 10+ second wait after busting.

Remember a couple things:
1) MACRO IN VISIBLE GEAR FOR PR!
Means you will avoid the animation-lock from the roll animation, allowing you to roll faster. You should be macroing in a visible piece for PR anyway, with Commodore Hat, Navarch +1/+2 gloves, roll-specific Navarch pieces. But if for some reason you aren't, swap something even if you're only doing it to blink. I personally do a swap for double-up too, just for the sake of being able to run around while rolling (say, I'm running between camps alongside someone and want to keep pace instead of freezing in place for a double-up animation). But for pure timer issues, regardless of whether you blink in double-up, you should be ready to roll again 5 seconds later when double-up is ready.

2) Unless you're planning to stay on a 2-6 lucky number (and say, bust it off yourself and leave the non-XI lucky on your party members), no reason to wait to identify your initial roll result before you double-up. If I know I'm going for XI, I hit the PR I want and then instantly hit my double-up macro.

Edited, Sep 25th 2011 3:17am by Anza
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#21 Sep 25 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I guess I just roll slower. It takes me some actual time to see what I roll, register whether it's lucky or not, double up, read what I rolled, decide if it's unlucky or acceptable, double up again.

So I amend what I said. ASA legs are unnecessary for me. Maybe when you guys are pushing 50 years you 'll see things a little slower and react a little slower as well lol.
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