New weapons - COR on daggerFollow

Interesting to see that COR is on the Dagger in the new S-E weapons video, along with THF/BRD/DNC.

Stats are - Lv95 DMG:49 Delay:189 DEX+15 Crit Rate+5% Occasionally deals severe damage

I've personally been more of a convert to the Dagger style than many here, and I'm excited to see COR getting added to things like this really strong crit-focused dagger. Certainly too early to say for sure (who's to say we're not on a gun with equally beefy ranged stats), but it could be a hint as to S-E's possible future plans for which gear COR gets access to.

To me it feels like outside of WS and some situational uses, shooting is becoming a thing of the past when you consider the COR gear in the Abyssea era like Loki's, Ocelot hands/legs, Epona's, Twilight Belt, Atheling, Cuauhtli set, and even some COR-specific stuff like Navarch hands. Fast attack speed, lots of crits.

I always thought this job is made to use both melee and ranged attack though, if you look at the combat skill rating. Just not an expert at both melee and ranged. RNG has access to better ammo, DNC and THF has access to better melee and DW gears. Melee on COR does have situational use, besides getting TP to WS. Haste samba and stun with /DNC is one thing I can think of, but the attack speed of COR is just pretty terrible compare with THF and DNC.

Personally I like swords better, pirates in movies uses sword mostly. I really hope SE can make some better sword WS that's not empy WS in the future so I can play with swords more ._.

IMO atm "gun mage" play style is the only DD play style that's unique and this job excel at, and won't fall into DNC/THF/RNG-1 category.

I don't know that I'd say "terrible"...

Zelus Tiara, Twilight Belt, Ocelot hands and legs, aurore/dusk feet = 24% haste for not a crazy-unreasonable set. And you could even squeeze out more haste with Tiercel necklace and Dusk+1 hands. Add a Suppa to the mix, Dual Wield III from /NIN (same tier as THF gets)... that's not bad. A THF isn't going to be using any extra enhance DW gear other than 3% from Raider's Boomerang. And COR can use Blitzer's Roll, which is actually really effective for DW melee.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not saying COR beats THF or DNC for melee DD (DNC especially has a considerable DW advantage through additional tier of DW trait and their AF3 body). But I don't want to misrepresent COR as awful when we really do have legit gear to pull off solid dagger melee.



I do think both of these are extremely good points. But for situations where melee is viable, it's nice to see COR getting on some high end weapons instead of those being THF/DNC only, like magian daggers or Auric Dagger for instance.

I still see myself being buffs first priority, "gun mage" firing off QD second, but dagger melee now solidly into third. Ranged is super-situational for me now, my ranged gear is usually for Slug only and I frankly won't miss Slug a bit if it ever becomes truly irrelevant for non-Wildfire users. I don't even always bring my Slug set with me now... Leaden with appropriate atma does the job well, and Evisceration isn't too shabby of an alternative (especially if you're doing something easy where it isn't even worth wasting ammo on Slug).

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 1:10am by Anza

SE haven't mention any detail info about 3 rolls, so I wouldn't worry about it atm. Maybe it's just a JA with 15min recast time, so every 15 min you can do extra roll and that's it.


Plenty of melee jobs can't out eva THF and DNC, but they still has access to good melee weapons. You don't really need the ability to eva tank mobs to have a good weapon XD







Personally I have 25%(dusk feet+1), suppa and twilight knife offhand, and eponas for double/triple attack. I sometimes go kill some NM with friend with Evi setup, and really, COR's attack speed is terrible compare with THF NIN DNC MNK in same pt even with 25% haste/twilight knife ;(

There are a couple of reasons for this.

1. If I use QD to gain TP, the JA animation will reset attack delay(I think), losing a few attack round. Compare with jobs that just straight melee and ws, using a JA once a while slows things down. With melee atma setup, QD dmg is barely worth anything, it's just for gaining TP that's it.

In fact if you're in high haste situation with a BRD and haste samba, I'm not even sure if using QD is viable, it's possible to lose more than you gain if attack delay capped.

2. THF and DNC not just have more DW gear, but also has massive amount of Triple attack/double attack. THF has triple attack job trait, plus triplus dagger/AF3+2 head, and they can merit it. DNC has Saber dance to enhance DA, which beat the sh*t out of average number DA roll. DNC also has way more DW gear, and 10% haste samba.


I'm not saying it's not doable, personally I think it's fun to melee and I like to melee more than shoot stuff(I lv this job up to 75 pre-abyssea in sword melee style), and I do believe melee is always intended to be part of this job when SE made it. But it's just one aspect that COR doesn't excel atm. On the other hand in terms of ranged magical dmg dealing ability, COR is probably on the top....you got BLM, SMN and SCH that can do the same, but BLM also takes longer to generate enough MP/casting time and it generate lots of enmity and not spammable.


I'm not sure how effective that additional effect is. If that dagger can instantly deal 80% HP dmg of the mob(something like twilight scythe can proc death on the mob), maybe it's worth using against none-NM mobs. Other wise it probably not gonna make a big difference unless you're meleeing in Abyssea.

I'm not so sure a THF on his own would out-damage a COR with 3 potent rolls.

Unless the game mechanic changes again at lv 91~95, currently high end dagger is only useful in Abyssea with Evi build anyways, and COR is not even useful in Abyssea. Everything else doesn't require a high end dagger at all.

I'm not sure if /DNC or /NIN DW a high dmg dagger+joytoy or Mkris will mathematically beat main hand joy or Mkris and /WAR at lv 95 with higher DPS or not though.

If you want to debate melee versus ranged, that's one thing. To say we should do NEITHER is lazy bullsh*t unless you're rolling/busting non-stop trying to keep all XIs up.

Yes, the primary role of COR is to buff. You can fire off some instant QDs in between with no problem. There is plenty of time left to do other things in between. Whether re-rolling, melee, ranged, or even casting spells while /mage (eww). You DO have time to do one of those things.

It's not hard to run around and buff while still engaged to the mob. It's also not hard to put up a DD roll on the melees while you're in there swinging away with them.



You know you don't have to actually re-roll every 30 seconds, right? With Nav+2 hands and winning streak merits, once you get a good roll on yourself solo you can leave it there for quite a while. I like to space them out a bit when I start and then just keep XIs on myself. If you're solo you can just re-roll in between mobs while running around anyway, it's not really as if you're losing 20 seconds of pure melee time.

I'm not sure I beat a THF solo, but it's not too far off... If I've been doing something like an elemental magian trial maybe I'll come /DNC and toss up Blitzer's/Tactician's, it does well. If I had a 3rd pure DD roll, I wouldn't be at all surprised to outdo a THF.


Edited, Aug 30th 2011 1:51pm by Anza

If you do old game content like Nyzul/Ein/limbus/assault on this job, those mobs will die too fast that you can't get TP at all if you /ra, so melee is still a better choice.

Except I wouldn't use a dagger in those situations as well, unless it's mathematically proven that melee with a D49 dagger and focus on more DPS deals more dmg than multi-hit weapon and WS dmg focus.

If that "deal severe damage" is truly awesome, it may actually replace multi-hit weapon though.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 12:29am by Afania

I'd be more inclined to use this on DNC than COR simply because with a 4-hit (eventually) Armageddon build, there's little use for meleeing unless it's for fun.

You should be macroing in visible gear when you roll anyway (I use Nav+2 hands, Commodore hat, PR recast Desultor Tassets, appropriate Navarch pieces for their roll), so you'll be blinking out anyway and it shouldn't limit your movement. I added an intentional visibile gear swap on double-up too specifically to blink and allow me to keep running instead of getting the animation. So yeah, you can roll and run with no downtime.

As for this talk of 0-45 seconds to get your desired roll... so what, you can still melee the whole time while you're rolling. I get that there is SOME JA lag that affects your attack speed, but it's not as if you're unable to auto-attack and roll at the same time. People acting like a COR is useless from initial roll until the final result of double-ups are simply not correct.

If you're solo (or in a DD party buffing other melees), you can simply use PR while meleeing just like any other job would use their JAs during auto-attack. When solo, I personally just put up a couple rolls and redo them when they wear, or maybe cycle three rolls. Each one lasts me for 6:36 with 3/5 Winning Streak and Nav+2 hands, so that's not all that much time lost to JA lag. Honestly, I actually use more JAs while meleeing when I'm on PUP (maneuvers, which don't last for 6+ minutes each) or DNC (so many constantly used JAs).


Come on now, you're going overboard with exaggeration. That's not even possible with the double-up timer, rolls are only eligible for double-up for 45 seconds and the double-up timer is 8sec. Not that I've even ever rolled 1 six times in a row on a single buff in all my years of COR.



If you're going to say that, in fairness a COR/NIN and THF/NIN have the same DW tier. PLUS a COR could use Blitzer's Roll for another 10-15% delay reduction (assuming AF3 hat and the conservative strategy of staying on rolls of 4, 7, 8, 10, 11). I personally like Blitzer's/Tactician's when I'm doing some random trash mobs on COR.

Again, I'm not saying COR necessarily beats THF offensively - THF having access to some better offensive gear and better traits (Triple Attack especially) is a big deal. But COR isn't as worthless with a dagger as one might infer from some of the comments here, particularly on "trash mobs" - which is really most anything other than high level Abyssea NMs and Voidwatch these days. And rolls are hardly an afterthought, even if you're talking a solo COR. Add more players to the party to also benefit from the buffs (this even includes calling your NPC!), and the total DD generated goes up even more.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 7:30pm by Anza

Currently an augmented yataghan (8D +6critDam) + Twilight should be any facsimile of (dagger) + joy or M.kris.

I'm going to theorize that "Severve damage" probably adds another +1 to cratio on a certain percent of hits that have crit'ed.

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 6:43am by doctorugh

No, although, I think I greatly understated(miscalculated) the potency of berserk, so that may affect the outcome. More haste favors /nin, not /war. On thf, with haste + 2x march, /nin effective haste is ~79%, /war effective haste is ~75%, so delay isn't capped. That makes /nin 19% faster than /war.

Magic Haste cap is 43.75%, DW delay reduction and and haste delay reduction are calculated separately, that is why I say effective haste.

Brd 2x march is generally about 20-21% I think, with soul voice it is 30. Don't quote me on that.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2011 11:13am by Meldi

Not with daggers you don't. That is the whole point.



Here is where my stuff kind of falls apart. I have been crunching some numbers and it is looking like berserk represents a much more significant bonus that I initially claimed. Its looking like accross all defs and level differences, berserk represents about a 30% increase in base damage. This seems to be holding true for low def, high def, even match to IT+++. With that much bonus, /war wins for thf probably by a significant bit. On cor however, since you lose dual wield, it favors /nin.



What are you TPing in as a cor? I TP in Brutal, Twilight Belt, Orthus back (Can't remember the name), Epona's Ring. That is already a base of 13%, plus 3% triple attack, the overall damage increase from 10% DA on /war is going to come out to about 6-7% due to those factors. On my thief it is just under 5% because I start from 19% TA.

In terms of melee damage, /nin will beat /war on cor by a very large margin. Its only close or favors /war on thf because you don't lose DW when you switch to /war on thf.