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Wildfire - MAB vs AgiFollow

#1 May 28 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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My question is mainly regarding rings, but also the rule of thumb when it comes to MAB vs agi...

I like to think have a pretty well put together WF gearset:

Head Nvrch. Tricorne +2 - AGI+10
Neck Uggalepih Pendant - MAB+8 (With macros that wipe my MP to 0 <3 Wave Gages!!)
Body Mirke Wardecors - AGI+5 MAB+4 (10mp for Ugg Pend)
L.ring Demon's Ring - MAB+2 (10mp for Ugg Pend)
R.ring Demon's Ring - MAB+2 (10mp for Ugg Pend)
L.ear Hecate's Earring - MAB+6
R.ear Moldavite Earring - MAB+5
legs Nvrch. Culottes +2 - Agi+8
waist Aquiline Belt - MAB+3
Hands Schutzen Mittens - AGI+8
Feet Nvrch. Bottes +1 - AGI+10
Back Forban Cape - AGI+4 MAB+3

With Arma and Vulcans/Rose Strap as mains.

This gives me +55Agi and +33MAB

My question is, are the rings worth keeping with +4MAB total, or should I get myself 2 AGI rings for +14 more AGI instead?
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#2 May 30 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I ran the numbers for a wide variety of MAB and AGI values. The data pointed to 1 MAB was always more damage than 1 AGI almost always less than 2 AGI.

For wildfire, I've concluded if you can double the AGI in that slot vs MAB, then go for it. 4 MAB will never beat 8 AGI so 14 is definitely the winner.

A quick calc:

100 base AGI, +30 fire damage atma, +50 MAB and sea daughter, target with 70 INT

Option 1 MAB rings:

55 agi 33 MAB

2*(155-70) + (5.5*(92+(0.85*155*.6))) = 1110 * 1.45 (Staff and atma) * 1.83 (MAB) = 2945



Option 2 AGI rings

69 agi 29 MAB

2*(169-70) + (5.5*(92+(0.85*169*.6))) = 1177 * 1.45 (Staff and atma) * 1.79 (MAB) = 3054

AGI rings are 3.7% better than MAB rings

#3 Jun 02 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you!

This is very interesting information indeed!


I'm already thinking in that case then, that Sveltesse Gouriz (agi+7) would be a better fit than the Aqualine belt(MAB+3).

Thanks so much!
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#4 Jun 03 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
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Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.
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#5 Jun 03 2011 at 10:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.


Source? Or are you just putting this out there? Because Denali Kecks vs Ambusher's Hose would fall under the same category if I'm not mistaken here.
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#6 Jun 04 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Default
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Wyuli wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.


Source? Or are you just putting this out there? Because Denali Kecks vs Ambusher's Hose would fall under the same category if I'm not mistaken here.


From a straight damage point, the agil stuff wil win if we go 2 agil > 1 matt > 1 agil, but as others have posted before macc effects the stability of Wildfires damage. If I get some time this weekend Ill do some testing to back up what im saying, but the macc stabilizing damage is true.
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#7 Jun 04 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
Wyuli wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.


Source? Or are you just putting this out there? Because Denali Kecks vs Ambusher's Hose would fall under the same category if I'm not mistaken here.


From a straight damage point, the agil stuff wil win if we go 2 agil > 1 matt > 1 agil, but as others have posted before macc effects the stability of Wildfires damage. If I get some time this weekend Ill do some testing to back up what im saying, but the macc stabilizing damage is true.


I wonder if INT- actually lowers the macc. I've tested WF with Stormsoul ring(Which has INT-3), and maybe because the sample is a bit too small to say for sure, or maybe just luck....but I did noticed a bit more resist when I use it, resulting lower WS dmg than stat+5 ring many times...until I popped a temp item for MAB and macc to stabilize the WS dmg.



#8 Jun 05 2011 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
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The int doesnt have any effect. Just wildfire is very unstable unless you toss some macc in there, hence why I prefer Denali over Ambushers.
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#9 Jun 07 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.

Alobont wrote:
Just wildfire is very unstable unless you toss some macc in there, hence why I prefer Denali over Ambushers.
Huh? Ambusher's will net you far more Macc than Denali in any situation.
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#10 Jun 08 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
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chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.

Alobont wrote:
Just wildfire is very unstable unless you toss some macc in there, hence why I prefer Denali over Ambushers.
Huh? Ambusher's will net you far more Macc than Denali in any situation.


Theres no Macc on ambushers unless im thinking of something else?? Agil from what ive seen modifies damage only not stability.
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#11 Jun 09 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.
Alobont wrote:
Just wildfire is very unstable unless you toss some macc in there, hence why I prefer Denali over Ambushers.
Huh? Ambusher's will net you far more Macc than Denali in any situation.
Theres no Macc on ambushers unless im thinking of something else?? Agil from what ive seen modifies damage only not stability.
I've been under the impression that AGI affects Wildfire's (and Leadean's) Macc the same as INT for nukes... however, after doing some searching and some asking around, I'm starting to wonder. I can't find any solid evidence.

It's reasonable to assume that some attribute must affect it's Macc, just like all other magical damage in FFXI. If it's not AGI then Afania is correct and it's INT.

Edit: I'm also a bit confused when you say 'stability'. Wildfire's damage is exactly the same every time, barring the normal variables (weather/day/shell/dAGI/etc). Or do you mean you're seeing resists? That would surprise me, because I've only seen a handful of resists in the 6 months that I've had Wildfire. Magical weapon skills are naturally very accurate.

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 5:30pm by Chewzer
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#12 Jun 09 2011 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Macc weighs out the small benefit the agil is giving over the matt.
Alobont wrote:
Just wildfire is very unstable unless you toss some macc in there, hence why I prefer Denali over Ambushers.
Huh? Ambusher's will net you far more Macc than Denali in any situation.
Theres no Macc on ambushers unless im thinking of something else?? Agil from what ive seen modifies damage only not stability.
I've been under the impression that AGI affects Wildfire's (and Leadean's) Macc the same as INT for nukes... however, after doing some searching and some asking around, I'm starting to wonder. I can't find any solid evidence.

It's reasonable to assume that some attribute must affect it's Macc, just like all other magical damage in FFXI. If it's not AGI then Afania is correct and it's INT.

Edit: I'm also a bit confused when you say 'stability'. Wildfire's damage is exactly the same every time, barring the normal variables (weather/day/shell/dAGI/etc). Or do you mean you're seeing resists? That would surprise me, because I've only seen a handful of resists in the 6 months that I've had Wildfire. Magical weapon skills are naturally very accurate.

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 5:30pm by Chewzer

I'm also a bit confused about "stability". I can only think of a handful of times i've seen lower then expected damage with wildfire. As far as whether AGI or INT having an impact on the resist rate of Wildfire it is almost to the point of being moot.

Magic Damage Adjustment on the other hand can really cripple Wildfire; even to the point where its basically ineffective, but there isn't anything to help with that.

Are you all experiencing alot of resists?

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#13 Jun 09 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Im mostly refering to stuff outside of abyssea, where you will see a lot of resists. But yes stability = resists.

I did a lot of dynamis xarc just recently and the one time I was cor Wildfire was pretty horrible, though demons have mdt and such. I started giving myself macc roll and damage was a little better but nothing to write home about compared to other jobs.

Im fairly certain INT has zero effect on wildfire ive been playing around with my INT altely and see zero changes.

I havent been on COR lately a whole bunch for events, but tahts gonna change soon. Someone in this forum really doesnt like me, it seems. Everytime I post regardless if its rainbows and sunshines it gets defaulted, oh wellz.

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#14 Jun 09 2011 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Admiral Viska wrote:
As far as whether AGI or INT having an impact on the resist rate of Wildfire it is almost to the point of being moot.
Exactly what I was thinking. Nobody's bothered with testing AGI/INT on magical WS simply because there's no need to.

Edit: quoting fail

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 9:54pm by Chewzer
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#15 Jun 09 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Im mostly refering to stuff outside of abyssea, where you will see a lot of resists. But yes stability = resists.

I did a lot of dynamis xarc just recently and the one time I was cor Wildfire was pretty horrible, though demons have mdt and such. I started giving myself macc roll and damage was a little better but nothing to write home about compared to other jobs.

Im fairly certain INT has zero effect on wildfire ive been playing around with my INT altely and see zero changes.
What you're seeing in Dynamis isn't resists. If you swap rolls/gear around and your damage gets "a little better", you aren't improving your Macc. Wildfire's damage, being magical, will be drastically different if you're getting resisted: exactly 1/2, 1/4, or 1/8 the normal damage. Dark Kindred have natural 25% magic resistance, explaining your low Wildfires.

As for playing with INT, of course you won't notice a difference because it's already such an incredibly accurate WS. To test the difference with more INT or AGI to determine which gives Macc would take a sample of thousands of weapon skills, and would probably result in zero results since it's probably capped accuracy in any situation, inside or outside of Abyssea.
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#16 Jun 10 2011 at 2:22 AM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Im mostly refering to stuff outside of abyssea, where you will see a lot of resists. But yes stability = resists.

I did a lot of dynamis xarc just recently and the one time I was cor Wildfire was pretty horrible, though demons have mdt and such. I started giving myself macc roll and damage was a little better but nothing to write home about compared to other jobs.

Im fairly certain INT has zero effect on wildfire ive been playing around with my INT altely and see zero changes.
What you're seeing in Dynamis isn't resists. If you swap rolls/gear around and your damage gets "a little better", you aren't improving your Macc. Wildfire's damage, being magical, will be drastically different if you're getting resisted: exactly 1/2, 1/4, or 1/8 the normal damage. Dark Kindred have natural 25% magic resistance, explaining your low Wildfires.




I'm pretty sure my WF dmg isn't exactly the same all the time(even with same number of MAB roll), it's just that compare with other physical WS such as Ukko or Fudo, the dmg is almost always in same range, but the number isn't exactly the same all the time.
At least when I tested Stormsoul a couple of weeks ago(I also tested some other gear set such as Loki v.s QD Mirke, or MAB Desultor Tassets v.s AF3+2 legs etc), the WS dmg always has a couple hundred of difference on those Rams. I didn't use MAB roll when I did the test, so it can't be different number on MAB roll.

Maybe because every target INT was different or something???

Or you should try to write down your WF dmg next time when you spamming WF, see if the number is always the same.

#17 Jun 10 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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chewzer wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Im mostly refering to stuff outside of abyssea, where you will see a lot of resists. But yes stability = resists.

I did a lot of dynamis xarc just recently and the one time I was cor Wildfire was pretty horrible, though demons have mdt and such. I started giving myself macc roll and damage was a little better but nothing to write home about compared to other jobs.

Im fairly certain INT has zero effect on wildfire ive been playing around with my INT altely and see zero changes.
What you're seeing in Dynamis isn't resists. If you swap rolls/gear around and your damage gets "a little better", you aren't improving your Macc. Wildfire's damage, being magical, will be drastically different if you're getting resisted: exactly 1/2, 1/4, or 1/8 the normal damage. Dark Kindred have natural 25% magic resistance, explaining your low Wildfires.

As for playing with INT, of course you won't notice a difference because it's already such an incredibly accurate WS. To test the difference with more INT or AGI to determine which gives Macc would take a sample of thousands of weapon skills, and would probably result in zero results since it's probably capped accuracy in any situation, inside or outside of Abyssea.


Its pretty easy to test INT and AGIl inside of abyssea with atmas. INT just doesnt do anything, it has zero factor on wildfire. I think your just drawing to many conclusions.

As far as Dyna xarc, I was seeing more resists on top of the reduction. Outside of Abyssea I see a lot more resists and uneven numbers off by a couple 100 or so with less macc. INT doesnt effect quickdraw which is the closest thing to Wildfire really, so I dont see why int would effect wildfire at all. Couple that with the fact hardly any COR gear has INT on it to begin with.
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#18 Jun 10 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alobont wrote:
Its pretty easy to test INT and AGIl inside of abyssea with atmas. INT just doesnt do anything, it has zero factor on wildfire. I think your just drawing to many conclusions.

As far as Dyna xarc, I was seeing more resists on top of the reduction. Outside of Abyssea I see a lot more resists and uneven numbers off by a couple 100 or so with less macc. INT doesnt effect quickdraw which is the closest thing to Wildfire really, so I dont see why int would effect wildfire at all. Couple that with the fact hardly any COR gear has INT on it to begin with.
Firstly, I never said INT was definitely a factor in WF's Macc, I was merely stating that your eyeball testing cannot prove weather it is or isn't. WF, like all other magical weapon skills, is natively incredibly accurate. The few INT you've thrown on to test it won't make any noticeable difference.

Secondly, you're just plain wrong about Macc making "a couple 100 or so less" difference in your damage. That's impossible. All magic damage is a static calculation. If it's resisted, it's 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 of the normal damage. Period. A couple of hundred damage difference is caused by another factor, not Macc and resists.

Thirdly, don't compare Quick Draw to Wildfire. They're completely different. The only thing they share in common is the fact that they're both elemental damage.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#19 Jun 11 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Default
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You have to remember Chewzer that no matter how "consistent" something is, there are those of us that consistently seem to /random 1. While the law of averages suggests that eventually that all those resists would bottom out, somehow we seem to continue to get more and more of them instead of fewer. Lol, on the opposite spectrum, there always seems to be those people that always roll the max output. :D

Case in point: I got to lot something last night against someone else in my linkshell, literally 10 lots in a row < 100. And that wasn't a fluke, my average lot over the course of my career is probably about 300.

Edited, Jun 11th 2011 4:41pm by Meldi
#20 Jun 11 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think what Chew is saying is that Wildfire damage isn't the random portion. Wildfire vs the same mob with the same buffs/debuffs will net you the exact same damage everytime, unless its a resist. Which is accurate.

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#21 Jun 15 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I was under the impression that dINT effected the acc of every magic ws in ffxi regardless of it's ws mods. Small Text

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 10:04am by LordTrey
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#22 Jun 17 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:


Its pretty easy to test INT and AGIl inside of abyssea with atmas. INT just doesnt do anything, it has zero factor on wildfire. I think your just drawing to many conclusions.

As far as Dyna xarc, I was seeing more resists on top of the reduction. Outside of Abyssea I see a lot more resists and uneven numbers off by a couple 100 or so with less macc. INT doesnt effect quickdraw which is the closest thing to Wildfire really, so I dont see why int would effect wildfire at all. Couple that with the fact hardly any COR gear has INT on it to begin with.


How'd you test with INT?
Did you test with INT+ atma or INT- atma(not sure if there's any INT- atma to begin with)
If it works like macc(and if macc does affect magical WS acc), then stacking more macc won't see damage increase if macc is already very high, but you will see dmg decrease if you use macc- stuff.

Anyways I'm just guessing, I don't think small amount of stat difference is going to make much noticable difference anyways XD
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