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Quick Draw & AGI SetupFollow

#27 Mar 05 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
Even if you do floor your delay, I can't see it being enough of an increase in TP phase damage and WS rate to offset a 40% reduction in WS damage.

You're also building for Exp like this is the Birds era and you have to do it for more than a few hours at a time. Why Exp on a capped job past the first few batches of merits to cap all categories?

This is the classic FFXI blunder of over-optimizing for trash mobs and 'perfect' (COR, BRD, DNC all in one party, etc) situations. It's why I was never impressed that a piercing job could outdamage my DRK at birds by 10%.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 4:53pm by Raelix


Because we already know how tog ear for max damage on NM's. I could really care less about exp, i dont even exp any more honestly, but I like to know who togear for certain occasions. Sometimes I get in the mood to jsut plow through a bunch of trash mbos and I want to know what the best setup for that is. On top of that, I'd rather not go back to /ra spam unless it truely is superior to melee spam for trash mobs.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 10:19pm by Alobont
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#28 Mar 06 2011 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
I could really care less

ORLY?
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#29 Mar 06 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Default
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Raelix wrote:
Alobont wrote:
I could really care less

ORLY?
YARLY

Also who is rating me down, just wanna put a name to the face is all.
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#30 Mar 07 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:

Yeah im just curious of ws numbers right now, still need 33 more lanterns.



Atma: GH/Ultimate/VV
SJ RDM

AGI and WS set same as above except I used a joytoy this time

No.7 Wizards roll, watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


(Without Uggy pendant latent effect)
3884
3884
(With Uggy pendant latent effect)
4052
3856

All after fire shot dmg+20%

#31 Mar 07 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Afania wrote:
Alobont wrote:

Yeah im just curious of ws numbers right now, still need 33 more lanterns.



Atma: GH/Ultimate/VV
SJ RDM

AGI and WS set same as above except I used a joytoy this time

No.7 Wizards roll, watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


(Without Uggy pendant latent effect)
3884
3884
(With Uggy pendant latent effect)
4052
3856

All after fire shot dmg+20%



Seems like that will probably be the melee combo to test against vs something like SD,Ultimate,SK. Thank you for the testing Afania.

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#32 Mar 07 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


If you're testing anything elemental based, don't do it on corresponding days. Fire Obi/Zodiac Ring do add on bonus damage to Wildfire, so my guess would be Watersday penalty can apply.

I've yet to determine which is overall better, +3% damage (zodiac ring) vs Augmented Demon Ring or Stormsoul Ring.

Those with access to Wildfire, out of curiosity, how often do you melee? I find myself fulltiming Vulcan's Staff rather than using joy/mkris. Also has anyone tested Brulo's atma?
(Atma of the Burning Effigy: STR+ Minor [negligible for wildfire], Fire WS dmg+Major, Gain Full Benefit of Firesday/Weather bonuses.)

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:58pm by Wyuli
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#33 Mar 07 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Wyuli wrote:
Quote:
watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


If you're testing anything elemental based, don't do it on corresponding days. Fire Obi/Zodiac Ring do add on bonus damage to Wildfire, so my guess would be Watersday penalty can apply.

I've yet to determine which is overall better, +3% damage (zodiac ring) vs Augmented Demon Ring or Stormsoul Ring.

Those with access to Wildfire, out of curiosity, how often do you melee? I find myself fulltiming Vulcan's Staff rather than using joy/mkris. Also has anyone tested Brulo's atma?
(Atma of the Burning Effigy: STR+ Minor [negligible for wildfire], Fire WS dmg+Major, Gain Full Benefit of Firesday/Weather bonuses.)

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:58pm by Wyuli


I would assume Burning effigy would only truelly be ebtter with a SCH in the pt.
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#34 Mar 07 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would assume Burning effigy would only truelly be ebtter with a SCH in the pt.


Not necessarily. Without needing to use Karin Obi due to the Atma to guarantee day bonus, I could use something else like Aquiline Belt for both QD/Wildfire.
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#35 Mar 07 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Wyuli wrote:
Quote:
I would assume Burning effigy would only truelly be ebtter with a SCH in the pt.


Not necessarily. Without needing to use Karin Obi due to the Atma to guarantee day bonus, I could use something else like Aquiline Belt for both QD/Wildfire.


Doesnt the Fire belt beat out aquiline and id assume Karin Obi?
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#36 Mar 07 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doesnt the Fire belt beat out aquiline and id assume Karin Obi?


I'm going to assume you're not referring to this Fire Belt, and you're meaning Flame Belt instead.

Next, I'm going to assume you didn't mean Flame Belt, because Wildfire has Gravitation/Darkness for skillchain properties, which means Flame Belt is irrelevant (unless you really want that Conserve TP+7).

Wildfire has a fTP mod of 5.5. Elemental Gorgets/Belts add 0.1 to fTP. According to Kirschy on BG, this is Wildfire's formula:

[floor(5.5 * (Lv + 2 + floor(0.85 * floor(AGI * .6))))] + [2 * (Your AGI-Enemy INT)]

Looking at Leaden Salute/Trueflight's formulas:
( fTP * ( 75 + 2 + (0.83 * (AGI * 0.3)))) + 2 * ( AGI - EnemyAGI )

Looking at Leaden's 75+2 vs Wildfire's Lv+2. Going to assume Leaden's 75+2 is Lv+2, due to the time Leaden Salute was released.

Let's assume our AGI = 150. EnemyINT = 75. Character Lv.90. I think floor means to round down?

[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150
924 + 150 = 1074

Now, let's add in Soil or Shadow Belt, as I have no clue if Snow/Aqua belts work.

[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.6 * 168)] + 150
940 + 150 = 1090

Difference of 16 points of damage. Let's now change to Aquiline Belt. MAB is calculated as another term I believe. MAB+3 being 1.03

( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150 ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150 ) * 1.03
( 924 + 150 ) * 1.03 = 1106

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd test this vs lv0 rabbits but maintenance isn't quite over yet.
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#37 Mar 07 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Wyuli wrote:
Quote:
Doesnt the Fire belt beat out aquiline and id assume Karin Obi?


I'm going to assume you're not referring to this Fire Belt, and you're meaning Flame Belt instead.

Next, I'm going to assume you didn't mean Flame Belt, because Wildfire has Gravitation/Darkness for skillchain properties, which means Flame Belt is irrelevant (unless you really want that Conserve TP+7).

Wildfire has a fTP mod of 5.5. Elemental Gorgets/Belts add 0.1 to fTP. According to Kirschy on BG, this is Wildfire's formula:

[floor(5.5 * (Lv + 2 + floor(0.85 * floor(AGI * .6))))] + [2 * (Your AGI-Enemy INT)]

Looking at Leaden Salute/Trueflight's formulas:
( fTP * ( 75 + 2 + (0.83 * (AGI * 0.3)))) + 2 * ( AGI - EnemyAGI )

Looking at Leaden's 75+2 vs Wildfire's Lv+2. Going to assume Leaden's 75+2 is Lv+2, due to the time Leaden Salute was released.

Let's assume our AGI = 150. EnemyINT = 75. Character Lv.90. I think floor means to round down?

[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150
924 + 150 = 1074

Now, let's add in Soil or Shadow Belt, as I have no clue if Snow/Aqua belts work.

[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.6 * 168)] + 150
940 + 150 = 1090

Difference of 16 points of damage. Let's now change to Aquiline Belt. MAB is calculated as another term I believe. MAB+3 being 1.03

( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150 ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150 ) * 1.03
( 924 + 150 ) * 1.03 = 1106

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd test this vs lv0 rabbits but maintenance isn't quite over yet.


Yeah sorry forgot belts and gorgets went off ws attributes lol.
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#38 Mar 07 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Wyuli wrote:
Those with access to Wildfire, out of curiosity, how often do you melee? I find myself fulltiming Vulcan's Staff rather than using joy/mkris.


Honestly? Never. SeaDaughter, Tactician's Roll, WotG earring. The ONLY time I would consider melee would be on mobs that have insane magic cut. Losing Vulcan's staff would be a travesty.

-Ath
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#39 Mar 07 2011 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya since i got wildfire i don t melee anymore either, i tried filling all my inventory slots with MAB gear plus the usual Smoldering/ultimate/wolf(or sometimes sea daughter) and use Tacticians and BLM rolls, has been working wonders so far and puts my Caladbolg to shame(i have woe gun, not empy)
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#40 Mar 08 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Wyuli wrote:
Quote:
watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


If you're testing anything elemental based, don't do it on corresponding days. Fire Obi/Zodiac Ring do add on bonus damage to Wildfire, so my guess would be Watersday penalty can apply.

I've yet to determine which is overall better, +3% damage (zodiac ring) vs Augmented Demon Ring or Stormsoul Ring.

Those with access to Wildfire, out of curiosity, how often do you melee? I find myself fulltiming Vulcan's Staff rather than using joy/mkris. Also has anyone tested Brulo's atma?
(Atma of the Burning Effigy: STR+ Minor [negligible for wildfire], Fire WS dmg+Major, Gain Full Benefit of Firesday/Weather bonuses.)

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:58pm by Wyuli



In abyssea most of the time with vulcan's staff. The TP speed of Joytoy isn't much faster than vulcan't staff but WS/QD dmg lose is too huge.

In Nyzul I still melee a lot though. Wildfire dmg isn't much better than slug outside...

The only real use for melee in abby is probably just for NM fights that resists WF and you /DNC haste samba ***** for MNK and NIN~
Or maybe Aeolion Edge amber light gold chest farm.




Does Zodiac ring affects elemental WS too? I know it affects QD but if it affects WS it'd be great~~

#41 Mar 08 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
In abyssea most of the time with vulcan's staff. The TP speed of Joytoy isn't much faster than vulcan't staff but WS/QD dmg lose is too huge.

In Nyzul I still melee a lot though. Wildfire dmg isn't much better than slug outside...

The only real use for melee in abby is probably just for NM fights that resists WF and you /DNC haste samba ***** for MNK and NIN~
Or maybe Aeolion Edge amber light gold chest farm.

Does Zodiac ring affects elemental WS too? I know it affects QD but if it affects WS it'd be great~~


I went and tested on lv.0 rabbits when I first got my Zodiac Ring, and yes, it does give bonus to Wildfire. Tested with Karin Obi to guarantee day bonus and not wonder if day did proc. No screenshots to prove it, but I can go test it again when Firesday rolls around and I'm online to be there for it.

Sometimes I still go COR/DNC and help stunlock with another NIN/DNC. Works wonders on the three gigas NMs for Briareus, and other slow-starting NMs (Minax Bugard comes to mind).

Does anyone have full AF3+2 set yet? I'm missing hands, want to know if full set bonus is worth losing QD Mirke/Schutzen Mittens (leaning towards no). Still debating over AF3+2 legs vs Denali as well.
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#42 Mar 08 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Full af3 isnt worth it. Proc rate is only about 5%. The only pieces worth useing for QD are really the feet and hands and thats if you dont need thr tp.
Cant use the body since we have acp, cant use hat cause of AF, cant use legs since denali adds agil
Macc and matt. Hands are the only piece really and thats only
If you dont need the tp.

Id assume if your meleeing your gonna want the tp so use the mitts. If
Your standing around back lineing use af3 gloves. Id also assume during a zerg you can swap in pants over denali.
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#43 Mar 08 2011 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Someone needs to do some math and compare the 5-8% chance of QD triple procing vs. wearing Tricorne & Merc. Body. Over time which combination would do more damage.


#44 Mar 08 2011 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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MK187 wrote:
Someone needs to do some math and compare the 5-8% chance of QD triple procing vs. wearing Tricorne & Merc. Body. Over time which combination would do more damage.




Its been done already. Full af3+2 isnt worth it, jsut wear two pieces and enjoy it when it procs.
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#45 Mar 09 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Full af3 isnt worth it. Proc rate is only about 5%. The only pieces worth useing for QD are really the feet and hands and thats if you dont need thr tp.
Cant use the body since we have acp, cant use hat cause of AF, cant use legs since denali adds agil
Macc and matt. Hands are the only piece really and thats only
If you dont need the tp.


Why would you wear Navarch's Gant's +2 to Quick Draw in? It adds nothing and there are a few other choices.

~Ath
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#46 Mar 09 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Need at least two pieces of af3+2 to get set bonus. Hands and feet are the best ones to use.
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#47 Apr 07 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Need at least two pieces of af3+2 to get set bonus. Hands and feet are the best ones to use.


Slight necro...

Supposing you are wearing Nav+2 feet and wanted another piece for set bonus:

1) Loki/Navarch Gants +2: AGI+11, Store TP+7
2) Navarch Frac+2/Schutzen: AGI+8, MAcc+15, QD TP Bonus

Isn't that a pretty easy choice in favor of #2 even if you DON'T need the TP? M.Acc+15 outweighs AGI+3, right?

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 3:33pm by Anza
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#48 Apr 07 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Anza wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Need at least two pieces of af3+2 to get set bonus. Hands and feet are the best ones to use.


Slight necro...

Supposing you are wearing Nav+2 feet and wanted another piece for set bonus:

1) Loki/Navarch Gants +2: AGI+11, Store TP+7
2) Navarch Frac+2/Schutzen: AGI+8, MAcc+15, QD TP Bonus

Isn't that a pretty easy choice in favor of #2 even if you DON'T need the TP? M.Acc+15 outweighs AGI+3, right?

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 3:33pm by Anza


If you dont have ACP body with QD-5 then number 2 is your best bet. I just assume any real cor has that qd-5 augment since it so powerful.

Without Mirke, AF2 body over hands, with mirke and not in a situation where you need the extra tp (ie outside of exp) AF3 hands.

The agil amount is a moot point really. 97% of the time your QD is going to land and be just fine without stacking agil.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 8:42pm by Alobont
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#49 Apr 08 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
If you dont have ACP body with QD-5 then number 2 is your best bet. I just assume any real cor has that qd-5 augment since it so powerful.

Without Mirke, AF2 body over hands, with mirke and not in a situation where you need the extra tp (ie outside of exp) AF3 hands.

The agil amount is a moot point really. 97% of the time your QD is going to land and be just fine without stacking agil.


Aha... Mirke. Knew I was forgetting something. Agreed that AGI stacking seems pretty redundant.

As a "real PUP", I can't give up Pet MAB/MAcc+7 augment on my Mirke (which I have paired with Acc+10). That being said, I am thinking about redoing it and putting QD-5 alongside the pet nuking augment, since I now have better melee/WS options.

How do you think a Mirke with QD-5 stacks up, if that augment is paired with something completely useless to COR as opposed to the traditional MAB augment?
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#50 Apr 08 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Works just fine. Mine is ratt+10 qd-5, though im planning on redoing it since I have wildfire now.
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#51 Apr 08 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Anza wrote:
Alobont wrote:
If you dont have ACP body with QD-5 then number 2 is your best bet. I just assume any real cor has that qd-5 augment since it so powerful.

Without Mirke, AF2 body over hands, with mirke and not in a situation where you need the extra tp (ie outside of exp) AF3 hands.

The agil amount is a moot point really. 97% of the time your QD is going to land and be just fine without stacking agil.


Aha... Mirke. Knew I was forgetting something. Agreed that AGI stacking seems pretty redundant.

As a "real PUP", I can't give up Pet MAB/MAcc+7 augment on my Mirke (which I have paired with Acc+10). That being said, I am thinking about redoing it and putting QD-5 alongside the pet nuking augment, since I now have better melee/WS options.

How do you think a Mirke with QD-5 stacks up, if that augment is paired with something completely useless to COR as opposed to the traditional MAB augment?



You can use STP gears for any AGI slots you're currently using if you feel AGI stacking is redundant.

I'd say MAB augment on Mirke makes very little difference, not like you're going to do 300 more dmg with it, so go ahead if you want second augment for other jobs =)
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