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EvIsceration VS slugFollow

#1 Jan 05 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Lack of posts in this forum make for dull times. So with that being saidets talk about evisceration VS slug and detonator in abyssea.

Increaseingly so ive started to change over to evisceration with RR VV and AA atmas. This is just for EXP mind you. I have pretty decent gear for slug and can do about 2k slugs on non piercing mobs with correct atmas and meds and such /war. But lately ivefound that evisceration is putting up a lot better numbers with less hassel. In just my tp gear because I havent made an Evisceration i can almost hit 2k and generall hover around the 1k to 1.7 range, thats with underleveled dagger at 90 woth an nq behemoth knife.

Tp gear:
Wturban
Specs
Lokis
Dusk gloves
Rajas ring
Adler ring
Suppa
Brutal
Ame+1
warwolf or life (never got bullwhip but should have twilight soon)
Dessultors (acc and haste)
Dusk feet

Slug set:
Mke head (racc raat ws acc)
Light gorget
Triumph earring (racc+2 aug)
Volley
Acp bod (ratt qd-5)
Barbrossa hands
Rajas
Behemoth
Ame+1
warwolf
Dusk pants
Praeda shoes (racc +12 )

Sooo thoughts and suggests?

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#2 Jan 05 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Leaden Salute is by far my favourite Abyssea WS on COR.
Sub RDM, use a MaB set for WS, keep chugging Asetic's Tonics and you'll be hammering targets for 3000+.

My set for it is...
Lv90 COR/RDM
Pluto's Staff
Reaver's Grip
Miramar Gun (Bedlam+1 in the works)
Bullets
Navarch Tricorne+1
Navarch Frac+1
Trigger Gloves
Denali Kecks
Navarch Bottes+1
Forban Cape
Aqualine Belt
Hecates Earring
Moldavite Earring
Breeze Ring
Breeze Ring
Navarch's Choker

Atma of the Cosmos (HIGHLY recommend this as it's a static +30% to Leaden Salute)
Atma of the Beyond (I use Ice Shot pretty much exclusively)
Atma of the Razed Ruins/Ultimate (Really depends if i'm in EXP or not, if i am then Razed adds some kick to my gunshots, if i know i'm there purely for Quick Draw and Leaden Salute i use Ultimate)
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#3 Jan 06 2011 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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I thought you had Wildfire?
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#4 Jan 06 2011 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
Lack of posts in this forum make for dull times. So with that being saidets talk about evisceration VS slug and detonator in abyssea.

Increaseingly so ive started to change over to evisceration with RR VV and AA atmas. This is just for EXP mind you. I have pretty decent gear for slug and can do about 2k slugs on non piercing mobs with correct atmas and meds and such /war. But lately ivefound that evisceration is putting up a lot better numbers with less hassel. In just my tp gear because I havent made an Evisceration i can almost hit 2k and generall hover around the 1k to 1.7 range, thats with underleveled dagger at 90 woth an nq behemoth knife.

Tp gear:
Wturban
Specs
Lokis
Dusk gloves
Rajas ring
Adler ring
Suppa
Brutal
Ame+1
warwolf or life (never got bullwhip but should have twilight soon)
Dessultors (acc and haste)
Dusk feet

Slug set:
Mke head (racc raat ws acc)
Light gorget
Triumph earring (racc+2 aug)
Volley
Acp bod (ratt qd-5)
Barbrossa hands
Rajas
Behemoth
Ame+1
warwolf
Dusk pants
Praeda shoes (racc +12 )

Sooo thoughts and suggests?



Yeah Evi is a pretty strong WS in abyssea, while Slug shot pretty gimp IMO(not affected by crit-hit/DA etc).
I think /DNC and mainhand twilight knife+offhand joytoy can be pretty good for both dmg and support. Although I still need to build my gear set and get that knife for it and see how it works:<

Should replace Dessultors with acc and haste with Aurore legs IMO, and get PR recast -5/MAB+4 augment on Dessultors.
Since augmenting Dessultors with haste and acc is kinda a waste now. Although AF3+2 legs is probably better for QD if you have other +2 pieces, MAB+4 still useful when you brew and have 999 AGI for magical WS.

For Slugshot, I suggest use Crudelis Belt instead. You may cap fSTR in abyssea depending on your atma, so adding anymore STR won't be much use. Not to mention Crudelis belt has enmity -, same amount of STR and 5 more AGI.









Tatham wrote:
Leaden Salute is by far my favourite Abyssea WS on COR.
Sub RDM, use a MaB set for WS, keep chugging Asetic's Tonics and you'll be hammering targets for 3000+.

My set for it is...
Lv90 COR/RDM
Pluto's Staff
Reaver's Grip
Miramar Gun (Bedlam+1 in the works)
Bullets
Navarch Tricorne+1
Navarch Frac+1
Trigger Gloves
Denali Kecks
Navarch Bottes+1
Forban Cape
Aqualine Belt
Hecates Earring
Moldavite Earring
Breeze Ring
Breeze Ring
Navarch's Choker

Atma of the Cosmos (HIGHLY recommend this as it's a static +30% to Leaden Salute)
Atma of the Beyond (I use Ice Shot pretty much exclusively)
Atma of the Razed Ruins/Ultimate (Really depends if i'm in EXP or not, if i am then Razed adds some kick to my gunshots, if i know i'm there purely for Quick Draw and Leaden Salute i use Ultimate)


Just curious, if you're in EXP pt, wouldn't it be a bit too slow to get TP if you shoot with a Pluto's staff? Since all mobs literally dies in 3 sec.



Also I have a question about Leaden Salute that I never understand >.>
Are there some kind of magic resist for this WS? Compare with other elemental WS I used on other jobs, this WS dmg is not consistent at all. Sometimes it just dropped super low. I brewed Shinryu the other day, with /RDM, lucky #5 wizards (don' t know if hat proc or not) +Asetic's, about half of my WS dmg are only 6kish, only a few reached 10k+, and every WS at wrong time healed it 20k >.> My gear set is pretty similar to yours except a few differences.

Dark Staff(don't know if upgrade it to HQ is worth the gil, so never bother...yet)
Veuglaire + bronze bullet
Navarch Tricorne+1 (probably doesn't matter when AGI capped at 999, same applied to other AGI gears)
ACP body
Schutzen Mittens
ASA pants with MAB+4
Navarch Bottes+1
Forban Cape
Aqualine Belt
Moldavite Earring
Solemn Ring
Breeze Ring
Navarch's Choker

And no Hecates earring, used Atma of Ultimate. (Totally forgot about Atma of Cosmos since I was in a hurry to the BC before blunt proc time over)
Do I need to add more macc or something? Cuz I shouldn't get resist when I cap all stats at 999 no?
#5 Jan 06 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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HaveNt finish armageddon stage 1 yet due to getting everyone shin access and clearing other stuff, but soon real soon.

As far as my gear goes. I had desultors augmented from the firt week they were released and have plan to upgrade those to ocelot gloves. As far as augments afterthat I dont know. Waiting on the ws belt to replace warwolf for slug.

Ill be happy when I get wildfire.

As far as leaden salute goes. I believe shinryu is dark based so that would account for your low ws on him. When it absorbs the resist doesnt proc so your getting full numbers. Change to sanguine blade or aoelean edge or wildfire.
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#6 Jan 06 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been thinking about evisceration recently and will try it out next time I'm in an Aby xp party on COR.

My gear would include:
Yataghan augmented with +7dmg and +4 crit %
M Kris offhand
WS anwig
peacock charm
nothing in earring slots of note (hope to get hollow soon)
CU Harness
Aurore hands
rajas
woodsman
Amemet+1
Crudelis belt
Aurore legs
AF+1 Feet

So mostly an accuracy setup with a bit of STR (25).

I really don't have a good melee WS setup since my Mains are COR, RNG and RDM. But with RR/VV this should be a fun go /DNC

But for bigger stuff I'm still a fan of /RDM Leaden/QD builds with Ultimate/Beyond Atma. Finally have my setup getting 750-800 QD's against T1 NM's.
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#7 Jan 06 2011 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
HaveNt finish armageddon stage 1 yet due to getting everyone shin access and clearing other stuff, but soon real soon.

As far as my gear goes. I had desultors augmented from the firt week they were released and have plan to upgrade those to ocelot gloves. As far as augments afterthat I dont know. Waiting on the ws belt to replace warwolf for slug.

Ill be happy when I get wildfire.

As far as leaden salute goes. I believe shinryu is dark based so that would account for your low ws on him. When it absorbs the resist doesnt proc so your getting full numbers. Change to sanguine blade or aoelean edge or wildfire.



Wiki says Sanguine is dark based as well ._.
But when I tried Sanguine the dmg was much more consistent and don't absorb 2x dmg when I WS at wrong time.

Just have no idea what's up with Leaden Salute.
#8 Jan 06 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont think sanguine blade can be resisted like leaden salute can, could be horribly wrong on that.
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#9 Jan 06 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I know from what you posted that you are still working on Armageddon, but really nothing compares to it. Our main LS COR (used to be me, not anymore) upgraded to the final stage version right before Heroes came out and it is impressive as **** with the right MAB Atma's. Her averages are definitely in the high 2K if not low 3K, and spike's come in often above 4K if not 5K. I think there was a 6K one once, but I might be confusing her with one of the other handful of empyreans that her lowman group upgraded (Hand-to-Hand, Scythe, BLU Sword and I think Katana?).

I just stopped playing on COR altogether after I saw that, haha.

For comparison, my Thf typically hits averages of 2K Evisceration on anything but the higher level NM's, and even then the average is still in the upper 1.5-1.9Ks.

Yes, these are averages. I've spiked Evis at 5.5K, and usually see frequent spikes into the mid 3Ks.
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#10 Jan 27 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
I've been thinking about evisceration recently and will try it out next time I'm in an Aby xp party on COR.

My gear would include:
Yataghan augmented with +7dmg and +4 crit %
M Kris offhand
WS anwig
peacock charm
nothing in earring slots of note (hope to get hollow soon)
CU Harness
Aurore hands
rajas
woodsman
Amemet+1
Crudelis belt
Aurore legs
AF+1 Feet

So mostly an accuracy setup with a bit of STR (25).

I really don't have a good melee WS setup since my Mains are COR, RNG and RDM. But with RR/VV this should be a fun go /DNC

But for bigger stuff I'm still a fan of /RDM Leaden/QD builds with Ultimate/Beyond Atma. Finally have my setup getting 750-800 QD's against T1 NM's.



What's better melee weapon combo for /DNC Evi spam (RR/VV)?

D42 Yataghan mainhand + Twilight knife offhand?
Or Twilight knife mainhand + Joytoy offhand?
Or D42 Yataghan mainhand+ joytoy offhand?

I think Yataghan hits harder for WS but Twilight knife and Joytoy TP faster? And Joytoy TP faster than Twilight knife?



#11 Jan 28 2011 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What's better melee weapon combo for /DNC Evi spam (RR/VV)?

D42 Yataghan mainhand + Twilight knife offhand?
Or Twilight knife mainhand + Joytoy offhand?
Or D42 Yataghan mainhand+ joytoy offhand?

I think Yataghan hits harder for WS but Twilight knife and Joytoy TP faster? And Joytoy TP faster than Twilight knife?


My goal would be Twilight + M Kris.
My Yhataghan is nice with the crit bonus, but the TP gain of the Twilight will be far more superior. Once I get Twilight I'll probably move all my SWD merits to dagger merits.


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#12 Jan 28 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldnt switch out sword just yet, on NMS your mkris will likely hit for zero (probably not in abyssea). Also it really doesnt
Matter that much what your mainhanding with a multi hit weapon due to how the fact now that we can get almost capped haste on cor and all the double and triple attack available.
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#13 Jan 28 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I wouldnt switch out sword just yet, on NMS your mkris will likely hit for zero (probably not in abyssea). Also it really doesnt
Matter that much what your mainhanding with a multi hit weapon due to how the fact now that we can get almost capped haste on cor and all the double and triple attack available.


I suppose that would be the case if I ever was /DNC and meleeing NM's on COR. I think if I did that, my LS would boot me pretty quick. We typically fight NM's with a MNK or NIN tank and Kill with nukes, QD's and WS's. The melee DD build TP with VV, meditate and weak mobs.

I'm /DNC during abyssea xp parties and out in Vanadiel proper. My M Kris never hits for zero in those instances.
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Race: Mithra
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#14 Jan 28 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
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I'd hate to be in your LS.
#15 Jan 28 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'd hate to be in your LS


Why? It's a real fun and inclusive group without any ego jobs or general ****** I'd think everyone would appreciate a good group like that.
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Race: Mithra
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#16 Jan 28 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Default
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Killing with nukes and Med WS DDs was a Tipoff. I've seen a group do that and was disgusted by how slow they killed.
#17 Jan 28 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I wouldnt switch out sword just yet, on NMS your mkris will likely hit for zero (probably not in abyssea). Also it really doesnt
Matter that much what your mainhanding with a multi hit weapon due to how the fact now that we can get almost capped haste on cor and all the double and triple attack available.


I suppose that would be the case if I ever was /DNC and meleeing NM's on COR. I think if I did that, my LS would boot me pretty quick. We typically fight NM's with a MNK or NIN tank and Kill with nukes, QD's and WS's. The melee DD build TP with VV, meditate and weak mobs.

I'm /DNC during abyssea xp parties and out in Vanadiel proper. My M Kris never hits for zero in those instances.



Isn't MK hurts total melee DPS a lot because of the low base dmg?
I've heard multi-hit magian weapons has ****** DoT and shouldn't be offhand for DW jobs, so I guess MK is even worse?

What's your MK melee dmg on Abyssea EXP mobs? With RR/VV and crit-hit?
#18Alobont, Posted: Jan 28 2011 at 1:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Killing that slow would drive me nuts. My low man group uses a mnk tank and even if im meleeing on cor and thf it doesnt matter. We have a war and another mnk or war on mobs as well. Very rarily do we have to Pull DD off, and thats only if i cant dual box my whm
#19 Jan 28 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alobont wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I'd hate to be in your LS


Why? It's a real fun and inclusive group without any ego jobs or general ****** I'd think everyone would appreciate a good group like that.


Killing that slow would drive me nuts. My low man group uses a mnk tank and even if im meleeing on cor and thf it doesnt matter. We have a war and another mnk or war on mobs as well. Very rarily do we have to Pull DD off, and thats only if i cant dual box my whm
Quick enough.

Sounds to me like your ls is stuck in 2004.

Maybe I don't get it. How slow could they be possibly killing? You don't need a ton of DD's to kill quickly 2-3 Melees can quickly dispatch nearly everything in Abyssea.

Also having too many people in an Alliance is worse IMHO then doing ultra lowman.

~Ath
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#20 Jan 28 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Viska wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
I'd hate to be in your LS


Why? It's a real fun and inclusive group without any ego jobs or general ****** I'd think everyone would appreciate a good group like that.


Killing that slow would drive me nuts. My low man group uses a mnk tank and even if im meleeing on cor and thf it doesnt matter. We have a war and another mnk or war on mobs as well. Very rarily do we have to Pull DD off, and thats only if i cant dual box my whm
Quick enough.

Sounds to me like your ls is stuck in 2004.

Maybe I don't get it. How slow could they be possibly killing? You don't need a ton of DD's to kill quickly 2-3 Melees can quickly dispatch nearly everything in Abyssea.

Also having too many people in an Alliance is worse IMHO then doing ultra lowman.

~Ath


If hes only useing nukes and ws from dds who are sitting out then double to triple the time. My low man group did a mage only set up for a long time and its a **** of a lot slower then just straight tanking and tossing some dds on it.

While haveing a ton of dds on something isnt good haveing 2-3 isnt any big deal. Relying on magic damage for a kill is just to slow and drawn out even with correct atmas.
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#21 Jan 28 2011 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Killing that slow would drive me nuts. My low man group uses a mnk tank and even if im meleeing on cor and thf it doesnt matter. We have a war and another mnk or war on mobs as well. Very rarily do we have to Pull DD off, and thats only if i cant dual box my whm
Quick enough.

Sounds to me like your ls is stuck in 2004.


Did I say we killed slowly? Most of the time by the time we've proc'd red and yellow, the mob is near dead and is quickly killed off by the BLM's or some DD. It's just during the time we are proc'ing weaknesses we try to keep the mob from going ballistic with WS's. Having a COR/DNC standing in there wailing away would not make it go any quicker or easier.

We have no problem killing quickly if we need to, its just that we are more interested in getting procs which sometimes take awhile. During that time I prefer to QD out of AoE range until its finally time to kill. Lets the WHM concentrate on the tank and not the COR.

Its certainly not like we're kiting the NM's around the place like a 3 hr Kirin fight. If anything we worry more about killing too quickly before the red and yellow procs.

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#22 Jan 28 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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What's your MK melee dmg on Abyssea EXP mobs? With RR/VV and crit-hit?


Its about 1/3 my joytoy damage but it hits faster and more often and gets me TP quicker. I'm not sure with RR/VV that the formula changes that much to favor higher damage weapons unless you don't have a good high damage crit WS. Then most of your damage is from melee swings.

But you may be right and Yhataghan/Twilight might turn out to be a better combo for an RR/VV Evis setup. Sadly I don't have the math skills to calculate the difference.

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#23 Jan 28 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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It's mostly the fact while using Apoc or A/O OaX weapons go down in overall DPS, VV does that on it's own due to the DA on it (with kris, somewhat half-ish for joytoy). It's possible the Acinaces or Mageblade might look like more attractive options.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 9:37pm by Neisan
#24 Jan 29 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah if your using Evisceration, it doesn'tseem right to be using Slug setup weapons.

Another low-delay decent dmg dagger to accompany Twightlight main will certainly be the best option. Neisan is correct in what hes saying about VV/Apoc all negating Mkris's 2-3x. Also, a higher dmg offhand will also increase Eviceration by a little bit.

You'd have 4% Quad attack, 5% Double, 15% Triple using Twighlight and appropriate atmais, even more /war. I certainly wouldn't use VV with Kris anyway.
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#25 Jan 29 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Yeah if your using Evisceration, it doesn'tseem right to be using Slug setup weapons.

Another low-delay decent dmg dagger to accompany Twightlight main will certainly be the best option. Neisan is correct in what hes saying about VV/Apoc all negating Mkris's 2-3x. Also, a higher dmg offhand will also increase Eviceration by a little bit.

You'd have 4% Quad attack, 5% Double, 15% Triple using Twighlight and appropriate atmais, even more /war. I certainly wouldn't use VV with Kris anyway.



Soooo I guess D42 Yataghan with crit-hit augment is the best mainhand dagger for Evi, and Twilight offhand with RR/VV? Twilight mainhand seems to be a bit low for base dmg.

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 7:15pm by Afania
#26 Jan 30 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Soooo I guess D42 Yataghan with crit-hit augment is the best mainhand dagger for Evi, and Twilight offhand with RR/VV? Twilight mainhand seems to be a bit low for base dmg.


Yes that seems pretty likely given our options to date.
Interestingly I was skulking up in an any party yesterday and even with MKris mainhand and joy toy offhand I was hitting 800-1.2k Eviscerations, whereas with yhataghan with 42 dmg, 4% crit rate, i was averaging 1.1. - 2k. Not as big a difference as I expected.

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