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anarchy (stp) vs othersFollow

#1 Nov 15 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
Wondering if anyone has math on 4hit with stp gun compared to 5 hit with the other guns, excluding oat guns. Thought another post had it but I couldnt find it. Trying to decide if 1600 WSs is worth it lol =\

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 9:55am by BiggHowie
#2 Nov 15 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
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I wouldnt waste my time with anything but Armageddon personally.
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#3 Nov 15 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
i was more talkin bout vs ws dmg path and ele path. dont have the time to throw towards an empy weapon at the moment. guess i shoulda specified a bit more lol
#4 Nov 15 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Default
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Even without doing the full Empyrean, the WoE weapon is far superior to every other weapon available (and probably takes less time to complete as well).
#5 Nov 15 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Even doing armageddon wont take that long. You can do all the trials in a week. Only pain in the *** is hotpot, so depending on time may take longer. After that, a cor can solo all the VNMs with pinning, and carabosse can be done with 3-6 people, while the fish boss can probably be soloed by Cor, or done with a few mages.

Realistically your looking at about a month straight if thats all you did a couple hours a day.
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#6 Nov 15 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Getting Heqet is a lot harder than killing the orobon, at least on my server. I have never seen it up and unclaimed, and more often than not I've seen at least 10 people camping it.
#7 Nov 15 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Default
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Alobont wrote:
Even doing armageddon wont take that long. You can do all the trials in a week. Only pain in the *** is hotpot, so depending on time may take longer. After that, a cor can solo all the VNMs with pinning, and carabosse can be done with 3-6 people, while the fish boss can probably be soloed by Cor, or done with a few mages.

Realistically your looking at about a month straight if thats all you did a couple hours a day.




Won't take long if you have 2~5 friends willing to kill Carabosse with you all day long, or have a LS to support you. At least Anarchy is soloable, don't need to bug friend/LS to do it.
#8 Nov 15 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Anarchy +1 with WS mod is what I use. Think I'm just going to continue with that line. I don't have a LS that wants to do Carabosse 1000 times to get gems for me and all the SAMs that want them.

Completely happy with the gun as its a good all-round gun for general use and didn't take an excessive time to obtain. Store TP guns only useful if it moves you down a tier which I can't with my gear.
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#9 Nov 16 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
well thats wut i was wondering. 49 stp for 4hit: 15 /sam, 13 gun, 4 grip, 2 earring, 5 rajas, 6 af3+1, 3 gules feet. puts u at 48 and u could get 1 stp from a number of places or use cobra feet over gules. best i can do without stp gun is 5 hit, but the perk to that is i have the 20 stp needed for 5hit without needing /sam. im almost certain cor doesnt shoot enough to have fire gun pull ahead, but is knocking that hit off per cycle gonna be better than a straight +10% to WS dmg?
#10 Nov 16 2010 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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BiggHowie wrote:
well thats wut i was wondering. 49 stp for 4hit: 15 /sam, 13 gun, 4 grip, 2 earring, 5 rajas, 6 af3+1, 3 gules feet. puts u at 48 and u could get 1 stp from a number of places or use cobra feet over gules. best i can do without stp gun is 5 hit, but the perk to that is i have the 20 stp needed for 5hit without needing /sam. im almost certain cor doesnt shoot enough to have fire gun pull ahead, but is knocking that hit off per cycle gonna be better than a straight +10% to WS dmg?



According to STP calculator: COR/SAM with Delay 600 gun needs 52 STP to reach 4 hit. Gun 13, Mekki Shakki 5, Rose strap 4, earring2, Rajas 5, Praeda hands+feet 5, Loki body 7, Tatical mantle 6, AF3+2 legs 8. With some racc+ atma and curor buff, food, it should be able to maintain acceptable racc with this set. But the biggest problem of STP gun is, you pretty much need all those gear+/SAM to reach 4 hit. So it has limited use, and you lose WS+10% dmg gun if you do STP path. So it's only good if you shoot all day, if you melee a lot then you won't get the full benefit of it, and if you don't have the gear to reach 4 hit you also won't get the full benefit of it. Btw, it's possible to reach 5 hit without /SAM without this gun, although you'll need to sacrifice some racc for it. And you can 5 hit easily with /SAM without using this gun also. So this gun's true strength is 4 hit, using it for 5 hit is a waste IMO.

And yeah, I think if you can reach 4 hit and still maintain decent racc, this gun may outperform WS dmg+10%. Although I haven't done math to prove it lol.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 4:58am by Afania
#11 Nov 16 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Heqet is heavily camped on my server as well, so in down time between ironclads we check on it. We also make sure we focus on blue procs for the KI so we arent wasteing time. As a cor you can claim almost better then anyone with qd, so just get better at it. I claimed heqet against 13 people the other day when it spawned behind me, so just be faster.
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#12 Nov 16 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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The thing with the STP gun is it only works /SAM and ranged attacking.
The WS +10% dmg works in all settings. Good for when you are meleeing for TP. Good for leaden salute/QD build. Good for ra/slug build as any sub you want.

I'm usually COR/DNC in xp abyssea parties or COR/NIN or /RDM in Abyssea NM runs. COR/SAM gets limited use. If someone needs my ranged attacks I usually am on RNG.

So I'd seriously look at what you use COR for and decide based on that. If you are only COR/SAM and COR/mage then getting a STP gun and a MATB/INT gun might be the way to go.
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#13 Nov 16 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
is knocking that hit off per cycle gonna be better than a straight +10% to WS dmg?


Going from 5 hit to 4 hit is a 25% increase in WS damage. What you need to figure out is just how much damage you are losing by not using an alternative support job. Seeing as you are discussing /sam I would imagine the competition to be /war.

Things to consider:

- what is your TP:WS split?
- is the WS you are using affected by Berserk?
- how much damage do you lose during TP phase by accomodating sTP items?
- how much damage do you lose duing WS by accomodating sTP items?
- how much damage do your physical WSs do on average compared to Leaden Salute?

Honestly, I think the two options would come up fairly even under optimal conditions. What you end up with is COR/SAM using sTP Magian, Leaden Salute, MAB Atmas, ranged accuracy food, better QDs, vs. /WAR using 10% dam Magian, physical WSs, ranged acc/att/STR Atmas, ranged acc/att food/buffs.

Yeah, I can't call that without sitting down and mathing it out. I'm stuck on an iPhone atm, so it'll have to wait until later, but my gut is telling me which one wins depends entirely on how much support you have for your COR. The /SAM build looks to be better when party buffs are light, while the /WAR one looks good in a stacked situation. If I knew
the magian trials for these two weapons would continue next update I would say upgrade them both. Just consider that the difficulty in getting gear for either set is probably more than what it takes to finish Armageddon.
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#14 Nov 16 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Once again


The WoE Gun will beat out both the STP+ and the WS Damage+ guns, and it doesn't take too much longer to complete.
#15 Nov 16 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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NOT EVERYBODY IS ON A SERVER WHERE TWENTY OTHER PEOPLE AREN'T CAMPING WOE SOLO TO @#%^ YOU OVER.

edit - Seriously though, if you have the means top make a WoEs weapon, you probably aren't too far off being able to make an Empyrean. People don't realize how easy these weapons are... SE got it right this time.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 4:41pm by TybudX
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kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#16 Nov 16 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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TybudX wrote:
[b]edit - Seriously though, if you have the means top make a WoEs weapon, you probably aren't too far off being able to make an Empyrean. People don't realize how easy these weapons are... SE got it right this time.


If you use gun, great katana or great sword. Otherwise SE said f-you.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:51pm by Ahrana
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#17 Nov 16 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahrana wrote:
TybudX wrote:
[b]edit - Seriously though, if you have the means top make a WoEs weapon, you probably aren't too far off being able to make an Empyrean. People don't realize how easy these weapons are... SE got it right this time.


If you use gun, great katana or great sword. Otherwise SE said f-you.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:51pm by Ahrana


6 people can kill any and everything in abyssea. If you dont know 6 people you can trust to not suck, find some.
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#18 Nov 16 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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6 people can kill any and everything in abyssea. If you dont know 6 people you can trust to not suck, find some.


If 6 people can kill everything in Abyssea, who needs an Empyrean weapon?

Seriously. Old endgame is a joke now with everyone level 85. New endgame in Abyssea is doable in various small groups with good atmas and our old gear from level 75. So forcing 6 people who could care less about Carabosse and your VNM's to go through that routine for a weapon you don't really need... I'm just saying.

I'll hold out until 99 comes and everything washes out. Either the Empyreans will be the final endgame weapons or they won't. In the meantime the WS line of guns is easy as pie to obtain and far easier than a WoE gun or Empyrean.
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#19 Nov 17 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
NOT EVERYBODY IS ON A SERVER WHERE TWENTY OTHER PEOPLE AREN'T CAMPING WOE SOLO TO @#%^ YOU OVER.

edit - Seriously though, if you have the means top make a WoEs weapon, you probably aren't too far off being able to make an Empyrean. People don't realize how easy these weapons are... SE got it right this time.


I hope you're joking with that first part.

Quote:
If 6 people can kill everything in Abyssea, who needs an Empyrean weapon?


Why does anyone ever need any gear that's not barely passable? Why not just run around in every melee job in full Perle 24/7? Empyrean/WoE Weapons are by far the biggest damage boost around.

Quote:

Seriously. Old endgame is a joke now with everyone level 85. New endgame in Abyssea is doable in various small groups with good atmas and our old gear from level 75. So forcing 6 people who could care less about Carabosse and your VNM's to go through that routine for a weapon you don't really need... I'm just saying.


Again...define need?

Quote:

I'll hold out until 99 comes and everything washes out. Either the Empyreans will be the final endgame weapons or they won't. In the meantime the WS line of guns is easy as pie to obtain and far easier than a WoE gun or Empyrean.


It takes maybe... two weeks? To finish a Carabosse/Crein-Cron Empyrean if you just power through it. The WS guns are also awful in comparison. I think you're simply lazy or casual.
#20 Nov 17 2010 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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I use Cor primarily for QD/Buff and have been workin hard on it. I got TP/WS sets (they not exactly hard to make), finish max merits and enjoyed making QD sets. For me, as i've only just finished with 2MNK and a SAM ToM weapons, i'm going to go for the MAB gun as its probably the easiest set of trials in the game with Ulegerand range giving Ice+Double Ice 90% of the time and its a v nice QD gun.

Im starting WoE @ w/e as 3man team, but it won't be for COR gun as much as i love the job.
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#21 Nov 17 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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6 people can kill any and everything in abyssea. If you dont know 6 people you can trust to not suck, find some.


I don't know 6 people to go after a T2 boss that don't also want its drops. Also, bringing only that many people means you're going to need a sh*tload of traverser stones, which a lot of people don't have in stock.

"Well, you could just farm TEs beforehand on every run!"

Yeah well, you'd be surprised how many people lack the patience for that, especially if they are just volunteering their time and don't need anything (or aren't going to get anything) from your NM. Gradually as you try to do that, people will grow tired and leave, limiting how many people you have to go after NMs.

Most people are looking to kill T2s just once for the title and that's it.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 3:51pm by Fynlar
#22 Nov 17 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Six people with Atma farm lights until capped, then either switch to Fell Cleave burn for an hour to build up three or four hours of time or have a pair of BLMs stay and farm time duo while the other four farm KIs that can't drop from chests. You need to kill so many NMs so many times that people will inevitabley get items they want from whichever Empyrean path you are taking.

Say three hours of dedicated frming a night minus KIs from chests, you can probably finish an Empyrean in two weeks, max. Even less if you have extra time on weekends or something. In before rl blah blah blah, Ive never met anybody who actually plays this game that does so for less than four hours a day, it's a @#%^ing lifestyle.

So now you have your traversed stones covered, can get quite a few items for other people, are naturally building pops towards zone bosses, and somebody in your small LS can get an Empyrean weapon every one or two weeks.

Yeah, that's totally selfish of me, why am I such an @#%^?

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 2:29pm by TybudX
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kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


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PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#23 Nov 17 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It takes maybe... two weeks? To finish a Carabosse/Crein-Cron Empyrean if you just power through it. The WS guns are also awful in comparison. I think you're simply lazy or casual.


I'd say I'm casual. I'd say anyone that commits a heavy percentage of their time to a virtual existence rather than real life endeavors is lazy.


Quote:
Why does anyone ever need any gear that's not barely passable? Why not just run around in every melee job in full Perle 24/7? Empyrean/WoE Weapons are by far the biggest damage boost around.



Atma is by far the biggest damage boost around. Of course its only useful in Abyssea but since that's where the tough mobs are...

Quote:
Again...define need?


Simple. Need is the requirement in gear, personel, strategy to complete a designated task. If I can complete a task with lesser gear, I didn't need the better gear other than for show. i'm over being "showy" in a videogame.
You could say you need the best gear to "low man" certain things, but low manning an NM in godly gear is no better than high manning an NM in average gear. If you want to impress, low man a tough NM naked. That really separates the good from the bad players.

At this point I don't "need" an Empyrean weapon to do what in the game and I'm not sure these will be the end all weapons. Just like I don't need a Death Penalty or other relixc weapon. An Empyrean would take far more than 2 weeks for me to obtain based on my game availability. I'd rather work on my +2 Empyrean gears, getting Atmas, levelling jobs, fighting new and interesting NM's, etc. If my LS suddenly decides to go full on with VNM's and WoE's I will probably partake. But completing anything in this game always requires others who are also interested. Not always easy to find.
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#24 Nov 17 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
6 people can kill any and everything in abyssea. If you dont know 6 people you can trust to not suck, find some.


I don't know 6 people to go after a T2 boss that don't also want its drops. Also, bringing only that many people means you're going to need a sh*tload of traverser stones, which a lot of people don't have in stock.

"Well, you could just farm TEs beforehand on every run!"

Yeah well, you'd be surprised how many people lack the patience for that, especially if they are just volunteering their time and don't need anything (or aren't going to get anything) from your NM. Gradually as you try to do that, people will grow tired and leave, limiting how many people you have to go after NMs.

Most people are looking to kill T2s just once for the title and that's it.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 3:51pm by Fynlar


Most of the Mobs can be done with 2 people if you so incline. I run with a 5 man group, and we never farm lights and burn stones out the *** twice a week. In a given week we use 10-15 stones and we never farm lights. Stones shouldnt be an issue for anyone if you have 12 hour recharge times, and the abyssites that add 3 min to each stone. None of those abyssites are hard to get at all.

If you apparently dont have any stones for whatever reason then just take a week off and your good to go. A lot of people use their stones on stupid stuff like questing, when its better spent killing nms, especially in low man situations.

Being in a lowman setup its all about travel times and preparation. If your going in, make sure you have home points set in Jeuno, reraise, warps, and the correct jobs. If your going to camp a large spawn NM such as Ovni, use a mule account (most people these days have a second account of some sorts) to get TOD.

If its stones your still worried about then alter your schedule, jsut because abyssea is there doesnt mean you have to do it each day. There are other things to do in this game.
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#25 Nov 17 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Most of the Mobs can be done with 2 people if you so incline.


Without even taking into account whether or not I and the people I know possess the skill necessary to achieve such a feat... read the second sentence of my post again. I should point out that I'm one of those people without many traverser stones.

Quote:
Stones shouldnt be an issue for anyone if you have 12 hour recharge times, and the abyssites that add 3 min to each stone. None of those abyssites are hard to get at all.


Got all of these; it ain't enough, and the same applies for several of my friends that have endgame-themed Abyssea shells (I don't even have that and I'm *still* short on stones). No, I don't spam quests either, other than building fame in each area in order to get the various quested abyssite.

Really hoping the 3rd celerity abyssite from Heroes isn't going to be a ***** to obtain compared to the other two.

Also, regarding their "difficulty" to obtain... fortunately for me, I got Gukumatz's abyssite early on; nowadays that thing is constantly camped for seals and I *never* see it up and unclaimed anymore. People never seem willing to team up to give away NM drops they don't need either; I've asked constantly and have been ignored/declined (usually the former) every single time. The same would probably be true of Ovni as well if it weren't for the fact that it's not really comfortably soloed anymore and that you probably wouldn't want to solo it anyway if you wanted to get blue !! on it.

Quote:
jsut because abyssea is there doesnt mean you have to do it each day.


It kinda does if you're one of those people that thinks finishing an empyrean in 2 weeks, or even a month, is somehow realistic. While I'm sure it's been done, how "easy" getting these weapons are is all relative and based highly on the people you know and how willing they are to give up their time and stones to help you obtain something while they most likely get jack ****. You know what they say about assumptions, and this thread reeks of them.

I would also say "in b4 rog", but he probably doesn't read this particular forum.
#26 Nov 17 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Stones is a week excuse considering two BLMs can duo sleep/nuke mobs for more than one TE every ten minutes. Just help them get lights capped for a bit before running off to farm ****.
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Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.

Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right


kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
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