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Thoughts on Joyeuse/M.kris Dual wield?Follow

#1 Aug 08 2009 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, my cor has had a helluva good week without me even taking it out of the moghouse. On Saturday, I got my Blood Cuisses from Kirin after being 0/7 (still disappointed they won't stack with my Hermes'), and then today, after a painful few days of camping, I got my Joyeuse.

Previously, I've had a M.kris that I used to melee for Tp and have loved it as a Cor, but now i'm not sure whether to keep it or sell it. First of all, Does Joy/M.kris even work as a dual-wielding combo? Which would you main-hand?

While the M.kris is going for a high price on my server, i'm not exactly in need of gil atm, so I'm leaning towards holding on to it. Any other jobs or situations that this dagger is good for?

..... and since i'm already here, a totally unrelated question.

I've just started playing with Leaden Salute (had it unlocked for awhile, but never used it). Whats the best situations to use it? What type of gear works best with it.


Thanks for all your help.
#2 Aug 08 2009 at 3:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't dual wield MK and Joytoy, it actually slows you down without tons of "Enhance Dual wield" gear. With only a Suppa and ACP body, CORs can't really crank out the dual wield trait.

I prefer my Joyeuse.

Leaden Salute is literally a Dark magic nuke. Magic Attack bonus gear, dark staff, and Wizard's roll are the only thing that affect Leaden Salute. Not even bullet or gun DMG are factored in the damage equasion. As a "nuke" WS, it cannot miss but can be resisted.

As for situations, any mob that is highly evasive and/or not resistant to dark magic. I rarely use it over Slug Shot or Detonator.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 7:24am by SyrusSquirple

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 7:25am by SyrusSquirple
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#3 Aug 08 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I tried it once at MJSP camp, and it wasn't horrible.

I have since sold my M.Kris to save up gil to buy the ingredients for Skadi's Cuirie.

What do other CORs dual wield with Joyeuse?
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#4 Aug 08 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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Don't dual wield MK and Joytoy, it actually slows you down without tons of "Enhance Dual wield" gear.


This statement gets thrown around a bit too much and it's far too general. Dual wielding Joyeuse with a slow offhand weapon will indeed slow down it's attack/second rate. Duel wielding Joyeuse with a weapon of equal or lower delay (say, a Phantom Fleuret or Trailer's Kukri) will lead to a higher overall attack/second rate, but possibly crappier DPS if the weapon has lower damage. Dual wielding a Joyeuse with an offhand Mkris will speed up the Joyeuse significantly, but actually be slower overall than a lone Mkris. The problem is how you define "slowing down" a weapon. An Mkris alone should make for the best TP rate, but a Joyeuse/Mkris combo would still have quite good TP gain with notably better DPS.

PS. this is all without a single piece of duel wield enhancement gear.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 7:53am by Filian
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#5 Aug 09 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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As I discussed in my Multihit/TP numbers thread, the MK/Joy dual wield can yield better results on paper, but the main problem is that to do so you have to go /nin to do it. This means that you're sacrificing accuracy from /rng and attack from /war. You might find that your damage and TP both suffer due to whiffs, missed slugshots, and the hits you are landing won't be backed up by Berserk.

If you can put some merits into sword to up your skills and boost your accuracy, Joyeuse will do slightly better DPS with Martial Gun than if you use M. Kris. However, if you already have dagger merits, then it's probably no better than MK right now, unless you redistribute your merit points. Of course, if you haven't gotten too far in the whole merit situation, the money from MK is worth consideration too... that'll buy a whooooole lotta ammo.
#6 Aug 10 2009 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
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So it sounds like, theres really no reason to hold onto M.kris for my corsair. Is it particularly useful for any other job?
#7 Aug 10 2009 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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It's useful for DRK zergs when you lack a Kraken Club. I may be wrong but I think THF can potentially get some use from M. Kris also.
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#8 Aug 11 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Dual wielding means you are /nin.

That means: No berserk, No barrage, No acc up traits. It is a big loss right there.

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Lets calculate tp gain, shall we? I will ignore sTP or haste - since they are all % based they will affect everything equally.

Joyeuse has delay = 224. Giving it a tp/hit of 6%
it has about 45% chance of double attacking.

This gives you a tp/round equal to 8.7

This means you will need 11.5 Rounds to get to 100 Tp.
This means that A single joyeuse will take 42.9 seconds to give you 100 tp

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m.kris has delay = 192 Giving it a tp/hit of 5.2%
Not exactly sure about the rate of doubles/triples. It is about the same rate as soboro, we will use that 1.9 attacks/round to it.

This gives you a tp/round equal to 9.88

This means you will need 10.1 Rounds to get to 100 Tp.
This means that A single m.kris will take 32.32 seconds to give you 100 tp

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Joyeuse + mkris have combined delay = 224 + 192 = 416. Reduced by 20% for /nin and suppa its equal to 332 delay, or 166 delay per weapon.

A 166 delay weapon will give you 4.8 tp/hit

A attack round means 1.45 attacks from joyeuse + 1.9 from m.kris.
That is 4.8 * 1.45 + 4.8 * 1.9 = 16.08 tp/round

This means you will need 5.95 rounds to get 100 tp
This means that A dw m.kris/jotoy will take 32.92 seconds to give you 100 tp

Almost as fast a a single m.kris, but it does force you to be /nin

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 11:41am by TheKhory
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#9 Aug 11 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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That would only be true if:

1) Joyeuse and M.Kris had the same accuracy (M.Kris has ~14 accuracy advantage)
2) /RNG had the same accuracy as /NIN

With gear/buffs that would put you at capped accuracy (95%) with /RNG+M.Kris, you would be at 88% accuracy with /RNG+Joy and 77%+84% accuracy with /NIN+Joy/M.Kris. This would make a drastic impact on your TP gain rate.
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#10 Aug 11 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I may be wrong but I think THF can potentially get some use from M. Kris also.


Mercurial Kris is one way for people to filter out bad THFs from a wide variety of situations... one of many, many ways.
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#11 Aug 17 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:
That would only be true if:

1) Joyeuse and M.Kris had the same accuracy (M.Kris has ~14 accuracy advantage)
2) /RNG had the same accuracy as /NIN

With gear/buffs that would put you at capped accuracy (95%) with /RNG+M.Kris, you would be at 88% accuracy with /RNG+Joy and 77%+84% accuracy with /NIN+Joy/M.Kris. This would make a drastic impact on your TP gain rate.



Thank you for pointing the acc difference out.

Even ignoring all the acc difference that makes mkris even better, single m.kris came up ahead than either joytoy or joy/mkris.

I think that should speak for itself.

Edited, Aug 17th 2009 4:09pm by TheKhory
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