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Slug Shot and Detonator legs?Follow

#1 Aug 04 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Default
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Ive been thru this like all day..

Dusk legs or AFv2 legs for Slug Shot and Detonator?
#2 Aug 04 2009 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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Dusk for slug, Commodore for Detonator.
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#3 Aug 04 2009 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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All depends on your accuracy. Generally, I would suggest the Commodore. If you have Enki. that is another equitable option.
#4 Aug 04 2009 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Enkidu's for both the vast majority of the time. 4 STR and the Store TP needed to turn 13 Joyeuse hits into 12.
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#5 Aug 04 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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totally depends on ACC. Commodore will add most damage with STR 3 and AGI 3. But the STR 4 options in Pahluwan and Enkidus have other bonuses (Store tp and RACC).
Dusk is a pure RACC option that might allow you to stack STR elsewhere (say Alky bracelets, or Flame ring).

I'm mostly using Commodore largely because I hate the movement - effect of Dusk. Getting the Anwig Salade with RACC and WS ACC has helped immensely getting over the loss of the RACC from dusk.
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#6 Aug 05 2009 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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As far as store TP is concerned, it's getting more situational. I went from SH+1 in my melee set to the Cobra body and it completely messed up the old benefits/costs of my other store TP gear. STP is only valuable if it shaves off a hit. And with the DA of joy, even if it saves a hit it only really benefits you 1/2 of the time since DA on the last hit to 100 nullifies the bonus.

Going from dusk to enkidus is a bonus of +4 Str and +5 STP for a loss of 10 racc. Going from behemoth +1 to rajas is a bonus of +5 Str and +5 STP for a loss of 11 racc. Which is better for ws? Guess its a wash. Depending if you have skadi legs/brutal ear/cobra body you may or may not benefit from adding STP in your WS macros.

Unfortunately the only way I have found to 'optimize' is to break out the calculator and try different gearsets to see if a hit (or two) is shaved off of joy/slug combo ;/
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#7 Aug 05 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Default
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The cobra body is phail. Sh+1 is better and its a side grade over pah body. Pah body is superior to cobra in my eyes due to the added crit bonus for melee swings.

You can get your stp in other peices of gear.

To op: Dusk for slug, comm, enkidu, pah, barb zerehs for det.
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#8 Aug 05 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Pah body is superior to cobra in my eyes due to the added crit bonus for melee swings.


I don't care what SE says, this doesn't exist.
#9 Aug 05 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The cobra body is phail. Sh+1 is better and its a side grade over pah body. Pah body is superior to cobra in my eyes due to the added crit bonus for melee swings.

You can get your stp in other peices of gear.


I can almost guarantee you that you'll get more out of the Store TP in Cobra Harness than the Critical hit increase from P Body.

If you go /DNC to anything, Cobra is win. If you are really looking at Store TP set up, +6 shouldn't be dismissed as "you can get that elsewhere". CUH is the easiest place to pickup a ton of Store TP for all our options. No Salvage required. No CoP required. Just some "on your own time:" campaign battles.

As for SH+1. I'd take 6 store TP, enm - 8 over 1 ACC, EVA +12. And I'd have an extra million gil for something else. Unless I've got THF or DNC levelled, SH+1 has minimal use for COR.

Heck I've even noticed the Counter effect with cobra mitts and harness equipped lol.

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#10 Aug 05 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Cobra Harness also has added effect: doesn't look like ass, so there you go. Win-win.
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#11 Aug 05 2009 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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arynel wrote:
Alobont wrote:
Pah body is superior to cobra in my eyes due to the added crit bonus for melee swings.


I don't care what SE says, this doesn't exist.


It's true. People have parsed it and come out with 0-1% Crit+.
#12 Aug 05 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Where do Pahluwan Seraweels fit into this?

Pahl - STR+3 R.Acc+4
Commodore - STR+3 AGI+3
Dusk - R.Acc+10

Not having Dusk, I've always favored Pahl for Slug, Commodore for Det. Am I wrong?

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#13 Aug 05 2009 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Not having Dusk, I've always favored Pahl for Slug, Commodore for Det. Am I wrong?


Again all depends on RACC. With the new Anwig Salade, you might be better off with Commodore now. Certainly I'm noticing a big jump in my slug acc with the new helm.

But if you don't have a RACC/WS ACC Anwig, P Legs are a very solid Slug choice given the combo of STR and RACC.
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#14 Aug 05 2009 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
Anza you got that headpiece for PUP right, but with the wsacc would qualify for cor as well or no? I forget what you did with it, think you did make it for WSs. I wonder sometimes when I look at my add on gear, how I can be so biased for PUP and never anything else I play as it would help them more...



Personally I WS in Denali legs (I really can not carry pln. legs with me, just too many things, poor excuse but true) to slip more Racc (I am a PCC man) in there for better allowance to use rajas with my warwolf belt.

When I do think of my WS build, I do make it around birds/mamool sadly. Just seems the easiet to do when thinking "what is my balance between damage and hitting the bird 95% of the time going to be". If I fight something harder to hit than a bird/mamool ws build with squid sushi will allow me like a god or something, then I will swap in more Racc gear like behemoths ring or I just use detonator, that is what it is there for. I never notice much issue until my food comes off, I rely on it a and my merits a bit much,.

Edited, Aug 6th 2009 3:52am by BelenosSwiftWater
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#15 Aug 06 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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BelenosSwiftWater wrote:
Anza you got that headpiece for PUP right, but with the wsacc would qualify for cor as well or no? I forget what you did with it, think you did make it for WSs.


I did go mainly for PUP and MNK with Anwig - the fairly popular melee setup of WSAcc+15/STR+4, and Acc+10/Atk+5. Even with the second augment doing nothing for me on COR for WS, it's a **** good WS hat. Close call between that and AF+1, both have STR+4 so the comparison is:

AF+1 - R.Acc+9 AGI+4
Anwig - WSAcc+15

I typically WS in:

Ranged: Martial Gun
Head: Corsair's Tricorne +1
Neck: PCC
Ear1: Drone Earring
Ear2: Hollow Earring
Body: Pahluwan Khazagand (eventually AF+1... **** Silkworm Thread)
Hands: Barbarossa's Moufles (no sky for me = no CFG)
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Jalzahn's
Back: Amemet +1
Waist: Buccaneer's Belt
Legs: Pahluwan Seraweels
Feet: Corsair's Bottes +1

BelenosSwiftWater wrote:
If I fight something harder to hit than a bird/mamool ws build with squid sushi will allow me like a god or something, then I will swap in more Racc gear like behemoths ring or I just use detonator, that is what it is there for.


Yeah, as a practical matter this is kinda how I think too. Use my normal WS gear, and use Slug if I'm fighting something where R.Acc is fine, Detonator if it's something more evasive. If for some reason I'm using a gun besides Martial, I'll also favor Det.
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#16 Aug 06 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I just bought dusk pants last night.

While i agree everything has its place im looking to be able to eat meat at birds or at leasr pot au feu.

Slug setup:
Salade: ws acc and racc
Mirke body: QD -5, ratt. Or pah body
Barbrossa gloves
Warwolf belt
Ameme +1
Dusk legs
Af feet ( is there anything better besides +1)
Behemoth ring x2
Drone earrings
Specs
Martial



Im gonna work on getting triumph earrings next. My slugs are hitting birds with attack roll and no food for about 1.2-1,4.
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#17 Aug 06 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
While i agree everything has its place im looking to be able to eat meat at birds or at leasr pot au feu.


Of course the biggest thing that keeps us from eating meat and pot au feu in merits is crappy melee acc. I can get really close to cap for RACC for WS now against birds without sushi. I can't hit the mob reliably with my sword though.

That's where the real crunch comes in. To do it I'm going to need PCC, dual Toreador rings on top of my set and I'll probably still be short some ACC.

And unfortunately dusk trousers don't offer ACC.
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#18 Aug 06 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Alobont wrote:
Im gonna work on getting triumph earrings next. My slugs are hitting birds with attack roll and no food for about 1.2-1,4.


OK, let's talk about earrings.

I don't really understand the desire for Triumph on COR. Is 2 STR at a cost of ~1mil on my server really THAT much better than 3 AGI for about 15k? I'm aware that even though Slug/Det only have AGI modifiers, on a 1:1 basis STR still theoretically results in more damage until you cap fSTR2 (which I honestly have a general but still somewhat vague grasp of). I'm also aware that RNG does get more use out of STR for WS because Sidewinder actually DOES have a STR and AGI modifer.

But... can anyone show me some math/parses that show 2STR Triumph being worth it over a 3AGI Drone? If it comes down to only a couple points of damage per WS in favor of Triumph, I'm putting that in the "not really the best investment for my gil until I completely run out of things to buy" category.

Also... I tend to WS in my Hollow (for the 3 R.Acc). Anyone have strong opinions on that? I suppose I could switch to 2x Drones. Or maybe Hollow/Drone for Slug, Drone x2 for Det.

Edited, Aug 6th 2009 4:48pm by Anza
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#19 Aug 06 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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As far as racc earrings go, they are fine to ws in if you need the acc. Not everyone has dusk, salade, or behemoths+1. I believe you can get a max of 6 racc on the ear (hollow and beaters)? S o its definatly an option if you need it.

Now i believe its something like 2 agil maybe 1.5 agil = 1 str, could be wrong but i think one of those is right. When it boils down to it, no triumphs arent exactly worth the price since its such a small damage gain from the earrings alone, but couple it with say flame rings, alky bracelets, and other str gear then we have a bit of a difference. It really depends on the setup.

Triumph earrings are a long term investment, once you get them youll use them on multiple jobs a lot, but your not exactly missing out any thing major.

Back on the subject of legs, the 3rd mini will hopefully have legs, which could and probably will blow dusk out of the water.
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#20 Aug 06 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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+2 STR = +1 base damage on WS

+3 AGI = 75% chance of +1 base damage on WS; 25% chance of doing nothing (depends on your total AGI, if it is divisible by 4 then you are getting the damage)

if you have 100 total AGI, you get:

100 * .3 *.83 = 25 base damage

go to 103 AGI and you still get 25 base damage from weapon skill modifiers, add 4 to get 104 AGI and you get 26 base damage.

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What does +1 base damage do? We'll look at slug.

WS damage = Base damage * fTP * pDIF

raising base damage by 1:

1 * 5 (fTP) * 1.2 (random pDIF value that a COR would be at on colibri with Chaos roll)

= +6 damage

And since I said birds, give it the piercing bonus

= 7.5 damage

So, a triumph earring is buying you the piece of mind that you will increase your WS damage by about 7.5 points 100% of the time vs 75% of the time with drone. Maybe a touch more since you get +1 ranged attack also, but then you have to consider you are also getting +1 or 2 RACC from drone so, meh.

Add something like Dia II to it and that amount goes up (maybe to about +12 damage).

I WS with a Drone earring personally. I use hollow for slug for the ACC and bushinomimi for Det since it is free STR and I don't need the ACC.

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Re: fSTR2 cap

fSTR2 is a function of your strength vs a target's vitality. Every point of fSTR adds 1 base damage to your weapon.

There is a cap on how much damage you can add via this method.

That cap is (weapon rank + 8) x 2

Weapon rank is = weapon damage/9

So for martial gun, weapon rank = 4

So fSTR2 cap = (4 + 8)*2 = 24

So if you cap fSTR2 you will add 24 points of base damage to your gun.

Since fSTR2 = (STR - targetVIT + 4)/2

and colibri have 67 vit, fSTR2 cap is when your STR = 111

When your STR hits 111, every point of strength after that only adds a little ranged attack.

This value is higher for mamool, and much, much higher for anything above merits.
#21 Aug 07 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I can't hit the mob reliably with my sword though.

That's where the real crunch comes in. To do it I'm going to need PCC, dual Toreador rings on top of my set and I'll probably still be short some ACC.


I really believe we are married to sushi for as long as we melee for tp in merits. I'm not sure any amount of acc that we can stack is going to get it high enough without sushi to make it worthwhile. I don't have a max acc build but I've got acc all over the place. I TP in PPC, Suppa, Paluhwan body (still need to make skadi body), enki hands, 1 toreadors ring and 1 woodsman, cuchu, swift belt, pal legs and skadi feet.

I think I typically parse in the mid 80 percentile range with sushi. Assuming you want to retain at least some lvl of haste (which I do atm with turban and swift... still trying to get 35s for skadi legs but they'd be in my ideal build also), there aren't that many spots to increase acc in. I don't have a hollow earring, don't really want to spend 3M for a second toreadors (hell, i'm contemplating selling the one I have to fund the body maybe)... oily trousers would inch me up another +2 acc but move speed down ><. Even with those three items, that's what? 2.5% acc? Skadi body would boost it to 4.5% up from what I have. I'd maybe be approaching 90% on birds with sushi. To get any higher, you have to trash your haste entirely and go ohat or enki cap (barring melee MKE head) and life belt. With all that, I could cap acc (I think) with sushi on birds but I'd have absolutely no haste,

Take sushi out of the equation and I cant see a COR doing 80% even with all that stuff unless they had rolls, bard songs etc. I just don't think it's feasible.
#22 Aug 07 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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It is possible to cap Acc on birds, but your talking +1 everything and zero haste. The build would cost an insane amount of Gil. Now there is also the augment stuff where you could get more acc on stuff.
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