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Fire Staff v R.Acc knives?Follow

#1 Jul 29 2009 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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hi, first post.

To the point, at 60+ with /RNG, is it better to equip the Fire Staff instead of the R.Acc knives? Fire Staff gives r.atk +12 (10 + STR+4), and can be used with Quick Draw's Fire Shot for extra damage. As a tarutaru, that seems almost necessary to me, but I'm still not sure. On the other hand, the dagger's +10-14 r.acc seems a safer bet, plus you can get TP quicker while meleeing. What do you guys think?
#2 Jul 29 2009 at 9:50 PM Rating: Default
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It depends on your other gear and what your playstyle is like. If you don't have much r.acc in other spots or find yourself missing shots/ss then you could go with the dagger. If your other gear has enough r.acc and your shots/ss are landing then go with the staff. With the staff you'll be shooting full time, with a dagger you will be able to melee for tp, but if you are going /RNG I'm not sure why you would want to do that in the first place unless you pull hate and the mob comes to you and you happen to get a hit or two in.

Also, meleeing will not get you quicker tp than shooting until you get a multi hit weapon like joy toy or m.kris. It's just cheaper.
#3 Jul 29 2009 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I think at that level, you'll probably want racc daggers in order to land slugs consistently. At higher lvls with better gear available, you can go with vulcan's staff or joyeuse/mkris instead.
#4 Jul 29 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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The only time a COR should be wielding Fire/Vulcan's Staff is for Quick Draw.

Even with sushi and /RNG, your ranged accuracy will not be high enough to justify wielding a staff.
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#5 Jul 30 2009 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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DenmoMidgard wrote:
On the other hand, the dagger's +10-14 r.acc seems a safer bet, plus you can get TP quicker while meleeing. What do you guys think?


Never melee with r.acc. daggers. NEVER.
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#6 Jul 30 2009 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The only time a COR should be wielding Fire/Vulcan's Staff is for Quick Draw.

Even with sushi and /RNG, your ranged accuracy will not be high enough to justify wielding a staff.


I used Fire staff a ton from 60-70. With Sushi and Hunter's roll and /RNG my Racc wasn't terrible at all.
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#7 Jul 30 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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to all those, Never melee with racc daggers...

idc

i melee'd with my archers knife from 55-75 and still do.

All be it im not exclusively meleeing, infact quite the opposite. Im just sitting in melee range shooting constantly and if my dagger swings and hits fine 5 more tp for me, if not no big deal.

Again i do like to put this one under play styles. I prefer to shoot more often than melee'ing but then again i loved RNG so much i think its just carrying over.

The Fire staff Fire shot remark did make an interesting point... I would say dont subscribe specifically to just one method, rather have both on hand and be ready to switch between both if oen isnt cutting it.

I know when i was leveling cor i had all my racc and ratt gear that overlapped on my character at once, that would i could mix and match for each party and find what setup worked best.
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#8 Jul 30 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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never ever ever melee w/ RACC daggers >.>. You should only really be meleeing anyway if you have a multi hit weapon like Joy or M.kris. As for Fire staff/Vulcans in the mid 60's if your eating sushi and using Hunters roll it's not that bad really.
#9 Jul 30 2009 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I used Vulcan's from 51+ while leveling, but 90% of the time I was using Hunter's Roll, and I could afford sushi. There was the small problem of constantly pulling hate even from just TP'ing, as tanks in that range aren't quite able to keep hate as well as the late levels.

If you're going 'on the cheap' and not using sushi, go for the daggers.

Either way, it's matter of preference, as you have a lot of gear to play with in multiple slots at your level. And as a rule when it comes to things that are matter of preference: there will always people who think they know better than you and will disagree with your gear choices. ;p
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#10 Jul 30 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Pot-Au-Fue + hunters I fulltime my vulcans, and it works just fine. I also have 8/8 Marks, but thats just me
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#11 Jul 30 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the right answer here is to try and possess all 3 types of main weapons we use. Own a multi-hit for meleeing, own a vulcan's for shooting when acc is np, and carry a racc dagger around for when acc is needed to hit something.

In Einherjar, i'll melee if the mob doesn't have nasty AOE. if it does, i'll stand back with staff on and shoot, try be less of an mp sink that way while still dealing dmg.

I admit I don't use the racc daggers much. Some things like salvage bosses or Tinnin where u have to stand a ways back, it can be tough to hit from there. Racc daggers would probly help shooting for tp on Tinnin but I've found that I prefer to go /rdm and use my full QD set while also serving as a back-up heal on Tinnin. I can do some good QD dmg in a short amount of time, leaving me free to toss out cures on tanks if needed or even on melees so the real healers can focus on the tanks. I often do this out of the BLM pt so evokers/wizards is win-win for everyone, including myself.

But for regular xp at the OPs level, I think racc daggers are probly best. CORs just don't have that much racc gear available at that level, especially with martial gun out of the equation for slugs.
#12 Jul 30 2009 at 11:49 PM Rating: Default
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How much accy do we need to cap on the lvl 70-73 Colibri anyways? I know how much we need for Lesser and Greater Colibri.
#13 Jul 31 2009 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Lv73 Colibri have Evasion 294. (Technically it's actually 264, plus AGI 60 making up the difference. Only relevant if you're somehow reducing their AGI.)

If you're going after them at lv64, you'd need 330 accuracy.
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#14 Jul 31 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I use Fire staff for every zerg i goto on COR. If feint is involved and shooting is the game, fire staff wins. You should be able to unload slugs, barrages, fire shots, i wing and 2hrs and RDs all during hte duration of feint and SS making racc a non issue (good time for a killer att food, or at least a sub).
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#15 Jul 31 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Default
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MDenham wrote:
Lv73 Colibri have Evasion 294. (Technically it's actually 264, plus AGI 60 making up the difference. Only relevant if you're somehow reducing their AGI.)

If you're going after them at lv64, you'd need 330 accuracy.


Thanks for that. LVL correction kind of messes things up for me. Even with +84 accy I'm not even near 80% >_<" this is at lvl 60 though.



#16 Jul 31 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Marou wrote:
MDenham wrote:
Lv73 Colibri have Evasion 294. (Technically it's actually 264, plus AGI 60 making up the difference. Only relevant if you're somehow reducing their AGI.)

If you're going after them at lv64, you'd need 330 accuracy.


Thanks for that. LVL correction kind of messes things up for me. Even with +84 accy I'm not even near 80% >_<" this is at lvl 60 though.
Lv60 vs. Colibri = massive overcamping. You'd need 346 accuracy at that point to cap (316 for 80%).

At lv60, you probably have (and considering the huge amount of accuracy in question, I'm assuming RAcc rather than melee acc) 190 from skill + ~30 from AGI = 220 base. 84 more puts you at 304, which should give you a ~74% hit rate.

RAcc food might be worth looking into (probably Squid or Sole Sushi are your best bets, depending on just how much money you want to potentially throw at it and whether or not you want to increase your damage at the same time).

For what it's worth, Squid Sushi should give you an extra ~48 RAcc, letting you drop (at least) 6 RAcc in gear.

EDIT: Minor note that you could, in fact, get away with dropping more RAcc if you're not planning on going for capped hit rate.

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 12:29pm by MDenham
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#17 Jul 31 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
I used Fire staff a ton from 60-70. With Sushi and Hunter's roll and /RNG my Racc wasn't terrible at all.

What was your actual ranged hitrate?

If it was 85% or less, then you should have dropped the staff for a knife.
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#18 Jul 31 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:
The only time a COR should be wielding Fire/Vulcan's Staff is for Quick Draw.

Even with sushi and /RNG, your ranged accuracy will not be high enough to justify wielding a staff.


Very much false. First, meripo/exp isn't everything.

At endgame, there are plenty of times where mobs are low level and have very low evasion, but they have nasty AoE attacks, potentially making it more useful to stand at a distance and shoot for tp. Einherjar, certain Limbus zones, etc. In that case, Fire/Vulcan's (with something like a Coffinmaker or Martial) is a great choice.

Quite a few mission fights are the same thing. ACP final fights is a great example, as is the CoP 6-4 Airship fight (Ultima and Omega have both very low evasion and very nasty AoE).

Even in exp/merit parties, sometimes you'll find that you're very much able to trade R.Acc for R.Atk. Good example is any pre-merit party level 54+ with a RNG where you use Hunter's Roll. It's a good roll anyway in that situation, as Chaos/Hunter's are clearly the most beneficial rolls to the RNG, whereas the RNG wouldn't get anything out of something like Fighter's. The R.Acc bonus will be huge from the roll, allowing you to give up some R.Acc (possibly from food, but from the weapon slot is certainly a reasonable choice).

And sometimes you'll be fighting something like Imps, with their annoying Amnesia. I find it easier to stand at range and shoot them, only running in to buff the melees. If you're not overcamping, you may indeed find your R.Acc good enough to warrant switching your weapon for more R.Atk.

Remember Axe Grip too. That's an additional STR+3 when you're using a staff, and a really nice benefit is that it even retains the STR bonus when you sync down (from the lv65 grip). In the 50s, it still has the full +3 to STR.

KaishenRamuh wrote:
Never melee with r.acc. daggers. NEVER.


What about running in to buff the melees when you've been shooting for tp with your weapon out (for WS), and you hit the mob once or twice with your dagger and get some tp while you're rolling ;)

Seriously, I agree with the general principle. You shouldn't be standing next to the mob full time and hacking away with your Archer's/Trailer's. I'm just being difficult though - never say NEVER.

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 3:34pm by Anza
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#19 Jul 31 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Default
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Anza wrote:
Very much false. First, meripo/exp isn't everything.

At endgame, there are plenty of times where mobs are low level and have very low evasion, but they have nasty AoE attacks, potentially making it more useful to stand at a distance and shoot for tp. Einherjar, certain Limbus zones, etc.

Sub NIN and use your shadows to absorb AoE while you melee. Utsusemi won't absorb this nasty AoE? Then you should almost certainly be subbing WHM and helping cure/status heal.

Quote:
Even in exp/merit parties, sometimes you'll find that you're very much able to trade R.Acc for R.Atk. Good example is any pre-merit party level 54+ with a RNG where you use Hunter's Roll.

Again, show me parses of a COR with 90%+ RACC with a staff and we'll talk.
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#20 Jul 31 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Anza wrote:
What about running in to buff the melees when you've been shooting for tp with your weapon out (for WS), and you hit the mob once or twice with your dagger and get some tp while you're rolling ;)


No. Meleeing with r.acc daggers is so disgustingly offensive that you should disengage the mob before running in to buff the melees, for the sole purpose of avoiding being labeled gimp by me if I happen to run by on a chocobo at the time you are buffing the melees.
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#21 Jul 31 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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I redid my gear selection and added food. For anyone that is interested in capping Range Accy on lvl 70-73 birds.

Here is my gear, it also happens to be WS gear too. >_<" Just to show that it's possible to do it with a Fire staff and that you don't need buffs.
#22 Aug 04 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Marou wrote:
I redid my gear selection and added food. For anyone that is interested in capping Range Accy on lvl 70-73 birds.

Here is my gear, it also happens to be WS gear too. >_<" Just to show that it's possible to do it with a Fire staff and that you don't need buffs.


I'm not touching whether that's really capping R.Acc, but I will note that he's using Pallas Bracelets (actually hurting R.Acc) and a Rajas Ring, so you could get even more R.Acc out of those slots. Say, another R.Acc ring and Deadeye gloves.
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#23 Aug 04 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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What was your actual ranged hitrate?

If it was 85% or less, then you should have dropped the staff for a knife.


It was always over 80% (and would have been higher as I didn't always have Hunters roll on me). Always tried to ensure I WS'd with hunters roll or sharpshot up.

The only time my Ranged hitrate really dipped was at 67 on imps. Then it was definitely back to trailers for a couple levels. But hitting crawlers before that was cake.

I'm the type of player that hates to miss more than anything. I wouldn't use the staff unless my hitrate was acceptable.
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#24 Aug 04 2009 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with RVW and Anza at the same time. I think RVW is right in that fire/vulcan staff should find very little use with a COR who is aware of where his racc actually stands. I agree with Anza though that there are a lot of situations where it's better to stand back and DD. I've really come to appreciate what a massive advantage it is to be able to DD respectably from outside the range of bad AOEs. That's also why my Coffinmaker has been seeing a lot of action lately. It may not top joyeuse/mkris meleeing w/ ranged WS for damage, but it's pretty darn close and a small price to pay for not being a liability. A dead DDs damage is pretty bad after all.

PS. I'm not talking about merit parties, because seriously...who cares about merit parties.
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#25 Aug 04 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Filian wrote:
PS. I'm not talking about merit parties, because seriously...who cares about merit parties.


Oh how I wish everyone thought this way...
#26 Aug 04 2009 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Filian wrote:
PS. I'm not talking about merit parties, because seriously...who cares about merit parties.

Capping merits takes more time than pretty much any other activity in this game, so I care about merit parties a great deal.
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