"Enhances Random Deal" Issue fixed in new updateFollow

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/detail/4742/detail.html

From the update notes:
The "Enhances 'Random Deal' effect" bonus granted by the following items is now functioning as intended:
Commodore Frac / Commodore Frac +1

It was broken, lol? Maybe that's why it was pretty useless.

Edit: Clarified topic

Edited, Jul 20th 2009 12:51pm by Igneus

Square Enix:

Latent Effect: Enhances "Placebo" Effect


Thanks, SE

I think it is this from wiki:



The Frac says "enhances" not "augments" so it shouldn't change behavior, which the natural behavior is resetting ONE ability.

So in other words, SE probably just nerfed our random deal JA with frac equipped. Making it work as "intended", and instead of giving 2 chances at resetting JA's it will just add 10% chance or so to your only chance.

And I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this, just because SE loves doing negative things "just for the sake of being correct". See pets getting sambas.

Could also be that 2 JA thing was correct and they upped the percent or made 100%. But im being way optimistic.

Ok, I did some preliminary testing in the limited time I had this morning. In hindsight, should have written down my exact results, but basically, I took Shadowedge's suggestion and did the MH job switch thing to test Random Deal a lot. I should note that I do have Loaded Deck merited, though I don't think that makes a difference.

I did around fifteen tests and it looks like it resets 2 JAs very frequently, though I could have gotten extremely lucky. Also of note, it never seemed to reset 2 JAs when I only had two waiting on cooldown, but reset 2 if I had 3 or more on cooldown a lot. I estimate I did around 10 Random Deals with 3 or more JAs waiting on cooldown, and Random Deal only failed to reset 2 JAs twice.

I wish I had written down my results for more statistical analysis, but I'd guess that it's at least 50% if I was just lucky, but if it wasn't just luck, it might actually be much higher, possibly 75%.

If anyone else has done a bit more in depth testing on this, I'd love to hear their results as well.

I was so busy last night and I completely forgot. I'll dick around in Tav after the servers come up shortly here.

-These are all done with Commodore's Frac equipped for every test, no LD merits, immediately after maintenance finished today.

-Not sure how to compact it any. Wanted to leave line spaces between each set so it isn't too difficult to scan through visually.

/random configurations

1:
focus
dodge
chakra
returned: 0

2:
focus
dodge
chakra
returned: 0

3:
berserk
warcry
defender
returned: 0

4:
focus
dodge
chakra
boost
returned: 0

5:
focus
dodge
chakra
boost
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

possibly doesn't work on non-cor JA's for the COR

6:
berserk
defender
warcry
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

7:
focus
boost
phantom roll
returned: 1, boost

8:
third eye
meditate
warding circle
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

9:
third eye
meditate
wardinc circle
hasso
seigan
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

10:
third eye
meditate
returned: 0

11:
hasso
meditate
returned: 0

5 minute JA/1minute JA timers, mnk/cor and some war/cor JA combos

12:
focus
phantom roll
returned: 0

13:
berserk
phantom roll
returned: 0

14:
focus
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

15:
berserk
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

16:
phantom roll
focus
returned: 0

17:
berserk
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

18:
focus
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

19:
berserk
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

20:
focus
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

2 long JA timers same timers, mnk/mnk

21:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

22:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

23:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

24:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

25:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

26:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

27:
focus
dodge
returned: 0

28:
focus
dodge
returned: 1, focus - waited till timer was 4:50 before using RD...significance?

29:
focus
dodge
returned: 0 - waited for 4:50 on focus again...dodge 4:51

30:
focus
dodge
returned: 0 - waited for 4:47 focus, 4:49 dodge...

2 long JA timers, + short JA timer, mnk/mnk/mnk

31:
focus
dodge
boost
returned: 0

32:
focus
dodge
boost
returned: 0

33:
focus
dodge
boost
returned: 0

34:
focus
dodge
boost
returned: 0

35:
focus
dodge
boost
chakra
returned: 1, dodge

36:
focus
dodge
boost
chakra
returned: 0

37:
focus
dodge
boost
chakra
returned: 0

38:
focus
dodge
boost
chakra
returned: 0

39:
focus
dodge
boost
chakra
returned: 0

40:
focus
dodge
chakra
boost
returned: 0

same timer JA's, 1 minute, cor/sam JA combo

41:
hasso
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

42:
hasso
phantom roll
returned: 0

43:
hasso
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

44:
hasso
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

45:
hasso
phantom roll
returned: 1, phantom roll

same timer JA's, 1 minute sam/sam JA combo

46:
hasso
seigan
returned: 0

47:
hasso
seigan
returned: 0

48:
hasso
seigan
returned: 0

49:
hasso
seigan
returned: 0

50:
hasso
seigan
returned: 0


Again, sorry for the super long post. I just copy+pasted results from notepad. If someone wants to clean it up for me better then I will edit the post with a better format. xD; I kind of got stumped after awhile on ideas to test. From just what I see here, it feels like there is a bias for phantom roll. I don't have other COR JA's(merit) and didn't think about testing with double up, but i think it would be worth trying a few times if someone has fold/snake eye at even timers, and do a few tests phantom roll/fold/snake eye or just phantom roll/oneCorJA to see if the frac's effect focuses on phantom roll, or any cor JA, more than other JA's from your subjob.

Was there anything else I might have overlooked? I know i could do with reproducing all of this -without- the frac, but for now, on to campaign!

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 2:45pm by FenrirXIII

I'm not sure I understand what's going on here, still. Can someone help a little?
Even from my tests in the post above yours Maruraba, we both have different results for the few tests I did use 3 JA's or more. Clearly, nearly all of my tests with 3 JA's on cooldown or more had almost no correlation with your tests of 3 JA's or more.

Things I do understand from the two posts though:
1.) Phantom roll has an affinity for random deal
2.) Random deal likes to fail often for me. *

*Perhaps this is due to all of my tests using RD at the top of these JA cooldowns? Would these results be different if I waited until JA timers are significantly lower?(such as waiting for focus or dodge to get under 3 or 4 minutes time remaining)

I know the name of the JA is 'RANDOM', but so far my results have been significantly less than random. I will reproduce some of what I did earlier using 3 JA's and see if the results are any different this time to indicate 'randomness'. I also have enough merits to upgrade Fold one level, so maybe using two COR JA's (phantom roll and fold) and 1 third SJ JA will have different results, although assuming RD has a bias for phantom roll, this might not be entirely accurate.

I would like to know however, why I have not experienced a double-JA charge from RD with my commodore frac on, hopefully I will see one in my next round of tests though. I don't know how to translate all the information but hopefully others can have some insight as to what all this means or what/how else I can do tests so we all know a little more about how random deal works.

Havwnt done any significant testing but I'd say (i have one loaded deck merit), I get phantom roll back... 90% of the time maybe. It's significant because i'm surprised when it doesn't restore that. Quick Draw is also restored often.

I don't think it's exclusively based on timers but it definitely favors shorter ones. I almost always use random deal in the following way: Phantom Roll > Double-Up > bust > Fold > Random Deal. Sometimes I get fold back even though I only just used i a second earlier.

Sure thing. Here's what I've figured out based on my testing and experience in the field:
-Commodore Frac enhances Random Deal to occasionally give back 2 JAs.
-Random Deal is affected by Loaded Deck.
-Therefore, Loaded Deck applies to the enhancement.

It might give back 2 JAs when you only have 2 on cooldown, but I haven't seen it yet. However, just as Loaded Deck works best when you have 2 or more JAs on cooldown, it appears that 2nd returned JA requires an extra one as well. It's a little bit like it treats Random Deal as going off twice. If I had more merits in Loaded Deck, I might wager that my results would have been even higher.

My advice, Fenrir, is to merit Loaded Deck. Just unlock it and you needn't do any more with it, but it's actually a great Job Trait and I'll bet if you re-ran your tests you'd see the difference immediately.