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#1 Jul 17 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
2,869 posts
Samurai Roll topic got off on what I find to be an interesting tangent on pet rolls (since PUP and COR are my two mains). So, I'll break that discussion into its own topic. Discuss pet roll stuff here!

Tarqs wrote:
I've been in 2 other pts so far (and love building these pts btw) that we had the COR use BST and PUP rolls.

one was PLD WHM COR PUP PUP PUP (lolz) at level sync 46(i think) in quicksand caves. my Arcaballista was hitting for like 220 on spiders was a fun time

the other was:
PLD PUP BST COR BRD WHM level sync at 65 at mount zhalyom.

but yeah if your # of pet jobs make up all the DDs you may want to consider pet rolls. i dunno bout drg's though cause their pets dont make up a majority of damage in a pt, so its your call

Speaking as a PUP... Puppet Roll is honestly rarely as useful to me as a melee DD roll (generally Hunter's > Chaos is my preference as a PUP, but either one is great). The reason is that automatons have a lot of attachments to make up for acc penalties (including Target Marker, which removes at least some portion of level correction from the accuracy calculation - making pet accuracy very good on T-IT mobs). Those attachments can also be enhanced by using more thunder maneuvers. Essentially, I as the master need DD buffs more than my pet needs Acc buffs.

On the other hand, BST/PUP rolls win out when there are:
(1) more pets than players doing damage (NOT more pet jobs than non-pet jobs), AND;
(2) some of those pets are BST pets (or possibly physical attacking avatars)

An example would be if you on COR go out with a BST or two and they're fighting in the traditional solo/duo BST method of mostly standing back while their pet fights (as happened to me recently in a COR BST BST trio farming subligar in the Aqueducts). Of course, SMN avatars can also benefit from physical acc/atk at times, but BST getting use out of it is generally more common. Having a PUP in the party to boost the BST or SMN pets' accuracy is helpful, but Puppet Roll is actually probably helping the automaton less than it's helping any other meleeing pets that happen to be in the party.

So yeah, for me on PUP with a melee/ranged automaton, even with the job enhancement from PUP being in the party, I'd get better use out of:
(1) BST roll > PUP roll, and
(2) A melee roll > PUP roll (assuming I as the master am also punching stuff, and not some situational thing like sending a DD automaton after a kited mob while the master stands back).

For PUP, the usefulness of BST roll versus DD roll is a closer discussion that I really don't know how to answer (looking solely at the benefit to the PUP+automaton, assuming both are meleeing). I'd decide based on the other jobs in the party. If you happen to end up in the 0.0000001% chance party with a COR and only PUP DDs with meleeing puppets... well, I'd roll Hunter's (or possibly Chaos if low evasion mobs) and Beast, but I can't fault anyone for pulling out a rare legitimate opportunity to use PUP/BST rolls.

The other thing that rarely comes into play on PUP but can be helpful is when the PUP is using a mage puppet. Drachen roll is nice to enhance those pet nukes. Every now and then I'll find myself doing something like Limbus and we'll have a couple parties, each with a COR and maybe mine only has like 3-4 people in it. I generally nuke with my automaton in Limbus, so my COR friend might give me Drachen to enhance my puppet's nuking ability. I love it, but like I said - very situational.

And one final comment - like I've always thought, they really should have switched the jobs associated with Drachen/Puppet rolls. Automaton can nuke quite well, so you could associate pet MAB/M.Acc with PUP much easier than you can with DRG.

TL;DR version:

PUP likes: BST or DRG roll (depending on puppet type) + a melee DD roll

BST likes: BST + PUP rolls (but depending on how much melee damage the BST themselves is contributing, they may prefer dropping PUP roll for a melee DD roll)
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#2 Jul 17 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
2,315 posts
I think you can sum this up with:

WTF SE! Way to make it so hard to buff pets, that we would prolly never want to do it anyways. FTL SE.

Melee Gear
Chi Blast Gear
#3 Jul 17 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Default
1,713 posts
I have raped a lot of sky with a couple smns and my cor rolling with pet buffs. Its some great fun, and most all of sky will really take a quick beating. RD, 2hr, and the 3 buffs to compliment different attacks/mobs really makes the setup a powerhouse.

I have done some bst parties for fun, but has of yet to party with the pups.
Twashtar (90)
#4 Jul 17 2009 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
143 posts
Get COR to 34 and have a /BST subjob leveld

Try COR/BST for soloing, should be able to alternate rolls to wear during most of the fight pet has BST/PUP rolls, and maybe finish off with COR roll before you kill it. This is prob even better with a duo. Using the slow gun attack speed could help with hate control, and you have QD at 40 to help out. Might save yah on bullets too. Now if only SE would give COR more bullets.
I hope life is not a joke, if it is, I don't get it.
MNK 90, BLU 90, SMN 90
#5 Jul 18 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
11,630 posts
If SE at least didn't gimp subbed rolls, pet jobs could go /COR and throw in the PUP or BST roll to enhance all pet jobs in the party, without losing that much on every other melee in the party.

I still don't see how getting some 10% attack bonus on a pet is so overpowered you can't have it, but getting 15% attack bonus on master with berserk is perfectly fine.

The game truly only favors selfish players who sub jobs that only benefit themselves. Don't try and sub a support job, because you only get penalties for trying to help the party.
#6 Jul 19 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Default
1,030 posts
I can see pet rolls only being useful when you are fighting mobs that the players aren't engaged with. For example if you had some BST/SMN party killing a NM. I would never use those rolls in the two parties described in the OP.
#7 Jul 20 2009 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
2,216 posts
I keep meaning to drag COR/BST up to sky or something see how it performs up there - strikes me it could work fairly well, just haven't had the time to set up macros or gear sets to do it. Main issue I could see with COR buffing a pet party would be hate - it's easy enough to grab a spot of hate hitting an incoming puller with a roll when the mob's coming in - when working with all-pet setups the hate can get pretty flakey anyway, and repeatedly hitting 6 people with a buff is liable to get you chomped over time.
San D'Oria Rank 10 :: Windurst Rank 10 :: Bastok Rank 10
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22nd March 2010.
#8 Jul 20 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Default
1,050 posts
yeah im a Rising PUP myself (well gonna get 75 BST 1st (66 atm)) and i always like whatever acc i can get.

I do have most of the buffs but im not gonna turn down the acc buffs. I also am not huge with nuking with my pet yet (have yet to get Spiritreaver only 46). But i dont know how i feel with everyone saying you need to DAD or ADD the pet. seems silly to me, more of an exploit.

the chance of you ending up in an exp situation with BST or PUP is so extremely small that i say, do what you want in those situations. if your someone who collected all those oddball rolls then go ahead and roll them out.

If you wanna still give standard buffs go ahead.
Armant wrote:
No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

Omegag wrote:
Cor should just be using dice rolls and helping with cures anyway

Dynamis Member while prepping for Dynamis Qufim wrote:
Is this where treasure hunter feet drop?

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