Reminder to 75 COR poseters re: dd corFollow

I really don't understand why most of the posters on this site shout this in every thread they can.

Yes, Cor should dd. The af has ranged stats (so does nin, even better in fact) everyone understands Cor's main dps weapon is gun.

But, it seems like the readers here leveled the job yrs ago and don't understand that Cor dd is NOT common among cor still leveling or endgame.

Please stop belittling people like many OP here that are just curious about Cor DD - the fact is, it's not something that they would likely know about even after leveling several jobs to 75 and pting with MANY other cors during that time.

This holds especially true for people looking at cor before they have their first 75, the money simply isn't there to shoot. Telling people to suck it up and farm or play another job are worthless posters. The job is insanely expensive and the dps is far from reflective of that fact. When people ask about dd/pulling/buffs/subs, stop pretending like everyone has every sub there is and a spare 100k to spend on every pt in food/ammo.

I said it before and i'll say it again: If you took COR's gun away, invites wouldn't change one iota. If you take away the rolls, however, you would never get an invite.

It's called an 'Advanced Job' for a reason.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 1:00pm by chewzer

People come here asking for this same info, but are judged instead of receiving it..

Actually I got what I needed from the Stickies and reading older posts comparing stats on various gears, and it wasn't just info from these forums it was all my research combined. I haven't had to really ask any questions because others have already asked it before, or it was common sense why X armor is better than Y armor.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 12:30pm by Zagen

I wanted to add something: What kind of parties are you in that gives you enough time to shoot while keeping-up 4 rolls and pulling? In the parties I join, we always have a BRD and with ToAU/WoTG camps I am finding stuff dies way too fast to bother even trying to TP. I usually find I can gather TP from pulls and then dump it before I leave to pull again.

You have a BRD, why are you pulling?

If you are sole support and pulling, I agree you don't have time to shoot or melee. But if you have a BRD, they should be pulling and you should be meleeing. Likely in those situations you can run a 3 roll rotation with Evokers, COR, Chaos or Evokers Hunters Chaos depending on how good your DD's are. In that instance, you have plenty of time to DD.

Low level burns in East Ronfaure [S], we have the BRD sub WHM and assist with cures. Running a 3 DD /NIN rotation we need the extra healing. Easier to pull and let the BRD back-up.


Depends on the set-up really. Popular method of leveling with a certain LS on Fenrir is to bring CORs at level 40 to Nyzul Mamool camp. COR does Evoker's, SAM and COR rolls. With a BRD, RDM and 3 SAMs (MNKs, /SAM, etc.) this exp is insanely fast. Can go from 40-50 on COR in a very, very short time without the party suffering. The exp continues past that. You can go from 40-75 this way much faster than a lot of other ways.

People invite CORs for the buffs, not the pew pew. I'm not saying COR can't DD, i've seen some CORs that do amazing dmg, but the majority of the people would invite them even if the COR didn't shoot and the party was aware of the damage loss.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 2:44pm by DubiousNinja

Arguably you could pull in great experience if the COR just DD'd and rolled COR roll.
But it would still be better exp if the COR did everything he could which is roll and contribute damage. 15% faster is 15% faster whether its noticed or not.

As a COR I've had all sorts of parties, but the best ones are the ones that had a BRD puller and good DD's and me as a COR/DD. They are the only ones where I've hit the 20k/hr mark. Never done it when I was either sole support or needed to help backup heal.

Sooooo it's ok to gimp yourself because other people won't notice... People do notice, the argument is that they don't invite because of the damage.




And yes, while an average cor can and should be able to parse ~15% ... a good cor can and should be able to parse ~20% It's not that hard with the right gear and roll cycle. (I'm strictly referring to merits here though)


*edit* Speeling >.<!

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 2:17pm by Spikido

I think what we need to factor into this whole conversation is, what is the person's play-style like? Yes, I can't disagree that a COR who shoots and is able to keep up all buffs is going to be more effective than a COR who only does one or the other. But, not everyone plays the same. There is an ideal way to play and then there is an individual way to play.

The difference is that playing as just a buffer is still going to net an exp party a significant amount of exp/hr. It's not the same as a DD who comes in the worst gear you can think of and eats the wrong food. There is acceptable and then there is "wtf are you doing?"

When I talk about play-style, there are several factors to consider:

1)How much time do they have to play? Not everyone can spend 8-10 hours farming, but they can spend a couple hours doing Nyzul, Einherjar, etc. So why should they be put to a ridiculous standard of gear and expendables expense to please the masses?

2)Do they enjoy leveling? I think people forgot this somewhere. I have multiple jobs at 75 (count: 4) and I love COR, but I absolutley despise leveling. I love merits parties, but I can't stand the standard exp party. I take pride in my jobs, but I don't feel I have to spend every dime I have on leveling, i'm going to spend a fortune at 75 anyway. Not everyone is going to play by the same standards as others. COR isn't a job where you gimp your party if you don't shoot, only if you don't roll. On a DD job, this is different, where your only expendable is food.

3)Is this their first 75? Just because it's an advanced job doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to play it. It's a game. Yes they may not have all the nice Rare/EX gear that more experienced players do, or the ability to farm gil at a rate most of us can, but that doesn't mean they should be told "don't play this job because you can't afford it" especially with COR. Who's to say they don't get 75 with it and work their asses off for nice gear? I know this is typically not the case, but gfy if you think you can sit on high and judge them for playing COR as just a support/buffer job.

Again, with a standard DD job it is unaccepatble to at least not gear with stuff that makes sense and eat appropriate food, but that's because their only contribution to the party is DD. COR doesn't "need" to DD to be effective. Can it DD? Sure. Will the party suffer because it only rolls? How about party with 5 people without a COR doing just rolls and see how that works out for you.

Edit: Anza makes a good point about /DNC. I always forget about that sub, even though I spend 90% of my time on NIN as /DNC.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 4:00pm by DubiousNinja

That argument really doesn't hold much water. I'm not saying you should only stand there and roll, but it doesn't gimp the party if you do (level with 5 people and no COR and then level with a COR that only rolls, tell me how much of a difference it makes. Protip: It's going to be significant) A COR rolling vs. a COR that does nothing is a big difference. I never said you shouldn't be active and I dare you to find a statement I made that says "just stand there and roll." I am saying that you're not gimp if you don't spend 100K/level shooting bullets.

I gave you credit for your /DNC comment. If you don't have the means to farm lots of gil to be trigger happy, this is a nice way to still be useful.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 4:19pm by DubiousNinja

Admitedly true but I didn't want to try to calculate the killspeed would be. Arguably that's 80% on the puller in the great scheme of meripo. But 15% damage added will speed kills and that potentially will speed xp/hr assuming you are not outkilling your pops or pullers ability to keep up.

COR was my first 75. Hell, it was my first job past 30. I just had to farm a lot, and decline party invites when I didn't have what I needed (often). Thanks to not sh*tting on the job class, I had more than a handful of offers to pay for my ammo, just to get me to party..

Your aren't doing it wrong at all, you play how you want to play. I used to take what a lot of people on this board say as fact, but I have come to find out that the people on this board actually only represent about 5% of the actual playerbase mentality in the game.

Most people won't give a second look at whether you are even shooting your gun. We are looked at as an alternative to Bards, and in most cases you may be asked to pull, but that is the extent of the shooting that is generally expected.


I showed up as a COR/THF to a pick up group once and spent the majority of the next 4 hours Sneak Attacking and Trick Attacking with an Archer Knife when i wasn't rolling. I threw darts for pulls. The next night I got invited by the party leader to group again, and the week after that I got invited by someone else who was in the party. Corsair is the least popular job in the game (based on the census) and most people don't even know how our rolls work let alone what else our job can do. And those that do know generally care little about what we do beyond roll. I actually get asked to come /WHM a lot, and do so, though I tend to do /RNG when I don't mind adding to the party's damage.

SSSSHHHHHHH!!!!! if people realize that gcolibri XP/hr is capped by repop time and is generally the same 2 great DD + 2 leech + 2 support, 3 great DD + 1 leech, + 2 support, 2 great DD + 1 leech + 1 D/C-or-AFK + 2 support, the whole foundation of our performance maximizing society will collapse.

seriously, if you have a BRD and 2 other good melee, chances are your DD contribution isn't speeding much up. "but COR is a great DD!!" no, listen. this principle extends to any DD; you could join a good party, go AFK, and it wouldn't be that much different than if you hadn't, as long as all 5 of your party members are good. this is true whether you're a COR or a MNK or a NIN or a SAM or (etc). you don't need 6 maximizers to infinite chain colibri. you can do it with 1 maximizer, a competent puller and healer, and the rest scrubs.

the two caveats are: 1) if you can DD, why not? it's not going to hurt anything, do it. 2) as someone mentioned in that last COR thread i posted in, COR DD (like ANY maximizer DD!!!) can be a real difference maker in a PT where all the DDs are average or below average (this is not rare for pickup parties).

what i'm saying is fynlar's point about "don't kid yourself into thinking people care about your DD or even into thinking it's making much of a difference," point is not only true, but generalizes. i'm happy to make a bad/average party great, but i know very well that meriting is easy enough that i can go afk smoke and come back in a good party only to find they kept chain without me, if i'm with 5 good players. there's only so many pops at a merit camp, and in fortunate circumstances, it's not your big swinging epeen chopping them all down.

"what does any of that have to do with anything?"

eh, i don't know. if a COR doesn't DD and the party keeps chain, i don't give a sh*t. maybe because i get drunk and party with JP so much. if a COR does DD (rare), all the better. if a COR started requesting songs that benefited them at the expense of the 2-3 standard DDs, they'd get a prompt "lol no":D.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 4:08am by milich

also doable with 5 members. there are no "better camps" than most above average parties can top off unless you have a vacant mamool ja staging point or kill wivre/mamool/birds from middle and below. even if not topped off, the XP/hr difference is usually like 22k~ becoming 25k~ or so anyway.

it's a self-congratulating myth that parties with "pro" melee get significantly more XP than a pickup party with 1-2 great DD and pullers/healers that are competent enough not to fumble the chain. yes, more DoT = more XP/hr and also = safer infinite chain, but don't overstate how hard it is to maximize or near-maximize XP in a merit party.

i mean, this is especially the case if you're talking COR DD*3 BRD RDM. i would hope anyone who doesn't flat out refuse to pt with 4x DD + 2 support has, over the years, infinite chained with 4x DD + 2 support. for argument's sake, suppose there's a party with 4 DD each doing 25% party damage each. now suppose they lose a DD and pick up a COR, who sings chaos roll and COR roll, and may or may not melee.

what does chaos roll alone contribute? supposing for ease that it's 25% ATT average you're adding and we're not talking about GK SAMs, that's around a 30% increase in the remaining 3 melee's damage. so you have

25*1.3 +
25*1.3 +
25*1.3 +
=
97.5

so whether the COR melees or not, the party is already infinite chain if 4 DD was infinite chain.

to put it another way, i wonder if you realize just how different many parties are in terms of damage capability, but how relatively the same they are in terms of XP/hr. i mean, if your damage is being held back because someone else WSd faster than you, your party isn't really being limited by damage capability, or at least not the way one would naturally think of it. it's not that you just can't do damage fast enough to kill the mob. it's that someone did it already and you have to move to the next mob to unload that TP.

---

i'm not saying any of this to discourage COR DD or melee maximizing (in fact, i encourage both). i do think you should avoid overstating the difference either makes in a party where the melees and mages are very good. the fact is that a great party would still be great if it lost 1 melee, b/c this game has significantly more potential for beefing up the player than it provides difficulty, both in merits and events.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 11:36am by milich

Well, I can only speak for myself but the reason I post about COR's DD capabilities is to educate. LOL hope that doesn't come off as too high n mighty, but its the truth.

Fact: Most non-CORs are completely unaware of what a great COR's ceiling is.

Fact: Most COR's are also unaware of this.

Fact: Most people DO invite COR just for the buffs. Can't argue it. It may be "wrong" or "misguided" but it is the truth.

Solution: Make other CORs and other players in general aware of what a COR is capable of. One way to do this, aside from posting info and answering questions on here, is to pretty much double avg WS dmg of everyone else in the pt. Melees love their numbers. They do. It's true. They love watching big numbers on the screen. The whole point of being a DD is to do lots of damage and post those big numbers. The bigger they are, the better you're becoming (buffs and mob enfeebs aside).

So when a COR comes along and is routinely busting 1450+ slug shots, it actually does tend to get ppl's attention.

Did SSR last night on COR/WHM (again, my salvage group always asks for this). Did PKs room and the LS leader afterward remarked how fast we'd plowed through that room. We almost always have a COR on a run (almost always me, unless we do 2x runs at once then someone else will grab their pirate gear too). I'm the only one of us who plays COR/WHM like a DD though. Having a 4th DD (lineup was and almost always is DRK MNK THF COR BRD RDM) with a WS that does comparable dmg on the fomors and actually superior dmg on the imps.. I'd like to think that played a role in how things went.

So my main reason for posting about it is to open eyes, preferably of up-and-coming CORs, to say "don't settle for being this kind of COR. If you want more, it's out there." I haven't reached my ceiling yet. Most of that is gear-related (still need skadi legs, hands and body, still need enkidu body n feet, tho the feet would be situational.. still need a Legion Scutum).

On top of that, I'm really just starting to understand the potential of QDs. My best QD on something of consequence prior to this week was a 377 ice shot on Cheese Rat. Not bad but then I saw someone else in this forum busting him for 530 lol. Immediately I'm thinking "OK, why cant I do that... he can't possible have THAT much more MAB than I do." Not sure why i never noticed double weather is basically 100% in the ruins, but his pic of the shot dmg had those lil water drops in it and I was like "ohh yeah"

So yesterday we did armed gears and I finally caved in and became one of those CORs who carries all 8 shots now. I used to carry 4 (the bare essentials of light, dark, ice and earth). Especially on armed gears, having all 6 elem ones makes a massive difference. The other COR kept spamming earth shot and predictably did 0 dmg whenever gears wasn't weak to earth. I averaged about 140~145 per shot prior to 50% hp (when gears have a big time magic defense bonus). Once the bonus was off, 330 ice shots were the norm. Water shot? I have no obi yet (working on it) but occasionally I still got the weather bonus and capped out at 463 dmg. I knew from having tried /rng on gears before that it just wasn't all that practical while needing to stay 20 distance away to avoid AOE. So /rdm, HQ staves all around, focused on QD dmg and was still able to toss out cure 3s to anyone who needed them. Worked out great.

I really wish /rdm had paralyna n stuff. I'd go to salvage /rdm in a heartbeat if it did but if I can't paralyna/status cure in our group, not gonna cut it.

Anyway, that QD story is just an example of how posts on here can and should help improve other CORs. There was another thread about how STR, AGI, ratt and gorgets each influenced slug shot's dmg. That thread, combined with me finally getting a parser and seeing i was landing 95%+ of my slugs influenced me to pile on STR and finally go /war to merits. Needless to say my dmg was taken to an entirely new lvl.

So when new or upcoming CORs read these threads, that's the type of stuff they should look for and utilize. Some people may just see "look at me and my dmg" when they read it but that's kinda cynical. I'm betting most CORs don't realize they can solo some pretty big stuff. You almost never see COR mentioned as a good soloer. That's my current COR project. Working on my QD build so I can start soloing some ZNMs. All I really need (you know, aside from stuff like novio that's not readily available to me atm, no sea shell).... is an earth obi and a water obi. Once I get those, I think I'm ready to try it out.

I can tell you that, vs. birds at the very minimum, Light Shot blows Lullaby away when it comes to accuracy. I landed over 600 Light Shots in a row on G.Colibri without a resist... and that was only after I started counting.

As for the idea that COR's damage contribution is superfluous: it depends on the party. For the majority of parties (particularly pickups), even with 2 support, you're probably going to hover around 20-25k. But if you want to try to break the 30k barrier (e.g. killing birds+wivres or mamool+skoffins), you are almost certainly going to need to bring damage to the table.

The only people who think that bird camp is respawn-limited at ~25k are people who aren't good enough to be able to chain wivres. Even if you are limited to one floor, killing all the birds and wivres on that floor will give you 33k/hr before Corsair's Roll.

lol you and your amazing elite parties. "i turned my 25k/hr party into 28k/hr" woop de sh*t. i did an ENM one day and got 2k free XP. (i've also chained wivre, mamool, and colibri in the same party, and FUCK IT DIDN'T CAP ALL MY MERITS IMMEDIATELY WHAT A RIP OFF)

as for infinite chain as ultimate myth, what the hell are you talking about? first of all, infinite chain gcolibri at least at middle bird is 20k minimum, so i don't know what you're talking about with this 15/30 nonsense (surely you're pretty elite though, so maybe i'm talking out of place). second, yeah, 6 gimps can infinite chain, that's my fucking point, stupid. what did you think all that "don't congratulate yourself too much" talk was about? did you think i was saying, "i'm awesome b/c i get lots of XP"? are you literate?

but what am i even talking about, you want to swing epeen, not make reasonable observations about XP party dynamics. i'll bite; in relation to you, i invented epeen. i was infinite chaining (like that phrase?) in KRT before there were corsairs, and i was outparsing everyone i met too (hell, i still do). holy sh*t i think my epeen will explode if i post any more, i better just send this one in and go have a cigarette.

...and you act like 30k+ has anywhere near as much to do with DD as it does to do with COR roll. seriously, meriting is easy. get over it, maximize if you like it, buy your ammo, post your parses. don't kid yourself.

I'm sorry, but I can't believe half the things i've read in this thread.

COR DD is nothing like RDM DD, We don't want to fit every single role the game has to offer and convince everyone were great at it. You'd think RDM's would be happy with healing, de-buffing/supporting, solo-ing, and tanking.

All of our armor has RACC, RATT, ACC on. Our highest ranked weapon is a Gun. Yes, we can make a /WHM setup with a butt load of MP, but I could do the same thing MNK/WHM. SE didn't intend us to play like a Brd (yes i know, SE did'nt intend NIN to tank, or SAM to be the uber DD it is in initial design).

Ofc our DD does'nt come close to that of a pure DD like SAM, WAR or MNK, but if it did, don't you think we'd be the most broken job in the game being able to buff like a BRD, and DD like a SAM?

A BRD can half ass pty's by just singing 2 sets of songs, and standing still for 2mins, a COR could do a 3 roll rotation and stand still for the rest of the time, the thf could pull, but that pty would not be great. It would get the job done, but it could have been so much better.

If you want to level COR, but can't afford the gil to be one of those uber COR's that get remembered by other good players in this game, you can at least shoot standard bullets, or pull, or /DNC, keeping your Marksmanship capped for a day when you possibly could become a great COR.

COR is one job I have taken unbelievable pride in, because like thf, pup, blu and other jobs, there are so many crappy COR's out there, its nice to know that your doing the job well.

And for the record, Good cor;s do get noticed, theres been times i've been asked by ppl as soon as I log on sometimes if I could play COR for them. Good cor's attract the attention of good players, normal standard buffing onry no gun cor's still attract attention, but the attention they attract is just sub-standard players who will do anything for cor buffs in their crappy 'STR Rings > ACC rings' pty's.

Great, we agree, sort of, just know I'm rolling my eyes whenever you mention infinite chains.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 4:38am by Carrilei

Sure, but not with 5 other gimps.