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#27 Jun 22 2009 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Anyone that needs a BRD to function (since I know that's what you're insinuating) is a subpar player.


No one ever said a COR needs a BRD to function. But its a given that a COR + BRD party will out-xp a single BRD or single COR party. A BRD is also a superior puller to a COR because of Horde lullaby and Carnage Elegy. Esp in mamool camps.

Additionally, COR doesn't have any haste roll. So an additional BRD support makes the party superior. Chaos/COR/March/Minuet can make mincemeat out of most areas.
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#28 Jun 22 2009 at 11:34 PM Rating: Default
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Anyone that needs a BRD to function is a subpar player.

This always makes me lol.

There's a difference between "need" and "want".

It wouldn't be overly difficult to play one-handed, but why bother? Just to prove to some random dime-a-dozen allanoob that you can? There's no incentive.

Just because you refuse setups that you judge to be **** doesn't mean you couldn't survive and scrape by with 18k/hr or whatever in them. It just means that you don't want to bother working like a ***** for table scraps.
#29 Jun 22 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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And yet again since it seems to be difficult to grasp:

Infinite chains do not mean anything in 2009. This game has been so imbalanced over the years that high chains mean nothing. Merit mobs are a joke, players are ridiculously overpowered with minimal meris and AH gear, and FFXI is rotting in easymode.

15k/hr and 30k/hr are both infinite chains. So what? Chain number means nothing. If you can get to 30, you can get to 300. You have so long to chain. Anything past 30 or so is just a measure of bladder strength, nothing more. No one is impressed by chain #45456456457457457. You can pull chain 100 on ToAU merit mobs with ANY setup as long as the players aren't functionally retarded. PLD BLM WHM COR DOMARU DOMARU can get chain 100.
#30 Jun 23 2009 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Fully agree with Kerb; anytime "infinite chains" are mentioned as a testimony to good merit results, it's an eye-roller.
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#31 Jun 23 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Default
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Infinite chains do not mean anything in 2009.


Well kerb, that's because you haven't done any single support PUG's in a while.

Since I'm not as picky as you, I'll join a pickup group if I've only got a few hours to xp. Most often they don't get a BRD and they want me to pull. So I'll pull and roll and you'd be surprised how often these PUG parties can't get infinite chains. They think they just have to wear their uber gear and go crazy on the mob. They don't pay attention to damage mitigation. /SAM is for Hasso and meditate only. /NIN is for shadows "when I remember". No one eats decent food even on mamools (last PUG i had at mamools, one WAR ate squid sushi +1 and that's it). I end up slowing pulls because the RDM starts running out of MP. Boom we're stuck at chain 7 or 8.

I have a simple rule. Even a crap party is worth sticking it out for the life of an Empress Band. After that, it's "Find an excuse to leave time".

Of course I've also been in your boat with the good players with good gear that know a COR + BRD party is the only way to merit. Gettting your 10 merits filled in a couple hours is pretty nice and I keep wondering, "why can't all parties be like this?"

So for a large percentage of the population, infinite chains do mean something. It's just that the top 10% of the population that attends Alla forums never sees the netherworld of crap SAM's that populate PUG meripos. And if you can easily avoid them... more power to you.
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#32Fynlar, Posted: Jun 23 2009 at 10:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I've yet to have even parties with a BRD exceed 18k/hr. So as far as I'm concerned, BRD is not the magical factor that will determine whether or not you can break that amount; there's more to it than just that.
#33 Jun 23 2009 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Honestly, by merit level, a good COR who isn't shooting for TP is not spending all that much. Do you guys think that none of the other DDs in the party spend money on any consumables, or what?

You're still blowing 50-100k-ish every party, as long as it's not a short party. Yes, that's in addition to food like normal DD's, and if pulling Shehei will be used. 200g per WS and 50g every 45 seconds in cards adds up. If SE decided to charge this for a melee to function tomorrow, there'd be riots. 250 gil every 45 seconds is what then, exactly? If not "all that much"?
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#34 Jun 23 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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Honestly, by merit level, a good COR who isn't shooting for TP is not spending all that much. Do you guys think that none of the other DDs in the party spend money on any consumables, or what?


Really? In a meripo where all i'm doing is pulling, I'll usually go through a stack of light cards (3500-4800/stack), 2-3 squid sushi's (12k/stack), about a third stack of shihei (2k/stack) and a stack of bullets (4-8k/stack) and 10-20 steel bullets for the odd slug shot (20k /stack). So I can easily come out 15k down in a 3 hour meripo.

A SAM uses one marinara pizza which are 6k I believe. Some melee will come /NIN and burn through a half stack of shihei to add 1k gil. A RDM uses a marron glace for 4k. Other than RNG, I'm not seeing a lot of consumable use amongst most party members. In a colibri camp its even worse where the melee typically eat nothing or maybe some meat mithkabobs (4k a stack). They might get unlucky and burn through a couple stacks of those.

Most COR's will spend twice as much per meripo as any other DD save RNG. So I think that gives COR's a bit of a right to determine who we party with. I'm not one of those COR"s as I'll pretty much go out with anyone. But I'll geenrally leave a crap party if I'm spending too much for too little reward.
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#35 Jun 23 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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"princess COR" and "princess BRD" make you sound like you're dissing a woman because she wouldn't fuck you. i know i'm talking to a wall, but i wish people could get it through their heads that people... actually... are... entitled... to... choose... who... they... party... with... regardless of how it makes you feel. read it slow, take it all in.

as for how expensive COR is, yeah there's no way a melee is spending that much these days. pizza+1 is dirt cheap and the best food around for almost all jobs (except for epeen swingers that could go red curry or something, and they don't give a sh*t about that kind of gil or they wouldn't be benefiting more from red curry than pizza in the first place). mithkabob/crab sushi spam is cheap too.

COR wouldn't put a dent in a lot of players gil--at least general maintenance-wise--but if you look at their general expenses as a % of general DD/support/mage expenses, it's going to be at least double.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 3:26pm by milich
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#36 Jun 23 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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If you need a BRD to perform well, you suck.


I'd argue that COR is one of the few jobs that actually does need a BRD to perform well. We are a support/DD hybrid job. To do that you have to have some other job pulling. BRD is the only job in meripo that is superior to COR as puller.

A COR without a BRD is a meripo puller/buffer. Reasonable work if you can get it but it hardly puts all those hard-earned merits and gear to good use. I could pull a meripo on COR naked with a light staff, peacemaker and light cards. I wouldn't consider that peak performance.

A COR with a BRD is a buffer, damage dealer or even support healer (/DNC). We can definitely put out good damage with QD every 50 sec, TP gain with Joyeuse and a pretty strong WS in SLugshot. That's what I call truly performing the job as intended (wtf would SE load us with gear heavy on RACC, RATT, STR and AGI if we weren't meant to DD).

Just my point of view.
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#37 Jun 23 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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"princess COR" and "princess BRD" make you sound like you're dissing a woman because she wouldn't **** you. i know i'm talking to a wall, but i wish people could get it through their heads that people... actually... are... entitled... to... choose... who... they... party... with... regardless of how it makes you feel. read it slow, take it all in.


Yes, and being choosy/demanding to the realm of unreasonableness is what defines you as a princess to the populace. Get THAT through your head.
#38 Jun 23 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
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"princess COR" and "princess BRD" make you sound like you're dissing a woman because she wouldn't @#%^ you. i know i'm talking to a wall, but i wish people could get it through their heads that people... actually... are... entitled... to... choose... who... they... party... with... regardless of how it makes you feel. read it slow, take it all in.


Yes, and being choosy/demanding to the realm of unreasonableness is what defines you as a princess to the populace. Get THAT through your head.


let's make up a word for "people who have MNK DRG SAM BRD at 75". because THERE ARE such people! it's important that we develop a terminology for it. i mean, sure, the offensive and stupid term 'princess BRD' came about through enough people feeling saaaaad that they met a BRD one time who force DC'd from their party and that seems silly, but it's totally valid. i mean, that BRD you met was UNREASONABLE! that BRD exists, so we needed a term to cover other plainly unreasonable people. we also need terms for people with MNK DRG SAM BRD at 75. and of course people with WAR RDM WHM DRG RNG at 75. that has to be another term.
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#40 Jun 23 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I wont say what the proper way to play is. All I know is that when I have pulled, I'd buff like normal, shoot a mob, run to camp, sleep, and repeat until I get TP for a WS.
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#41 Jun 23 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Yes, and being choosy/demanding to the realm of unreasonableness is what defines you as a princess to the populace. Get THAT through your head.

Subjective term is subjective.

The problem with terms like "princess JOB" comes when people abuse it.

"This princess COR left because we're making 15k/hr."
"This princess COR left because we don't have a BRD."
"This princess COR left because we're making 5k/hr..."
"This princess COR left because we're 6/6 and have no healer, not even a /DNC....."
"This princess COR left because we wiped to 4 G.Colibri in a row......."

It gets watered down and meaningless. If anything, people hear someone complain about a princess, and the logical assumption is "The so-called princess left because your party sucks..." But "sucks" is subjective too.

In the end, everyone wants fast, easy, fun exp. People will have differing opinions about what's fast enough to be worth their time. Healers and pullers especially will have a specific tolerance for how stressful of a party they'll tolerate. And everyone has their own definition of fun. You can bash on people for being rude or condescending or force d/cing. But making judging remarks on someone, just because your standards are lower than theirs, is silly and futile. Just ignore them and find someone else to play with.
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#42 Jun 23 2009 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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How about those darn "Princess Warriors", who dont voke off the "Princess Cor", and the "Princess RDM" who refuses to help sleep when light shot is down?
And the "Princess MNKs", who just engage and WS and soak up the xp; they just tick me off.
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#43 Jun 23 2009 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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let's make up a word for "people who have MNK DRG SAM BRD at 75". because THERE ARE such people! it's important that we develop a terminology for it.


OK, sure, go for it. But you do realize that now you sound like you're arguing just for the sake of looking silly, right?


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Subjective term is subjective.


It's really not hard to know what is reasonable and what is not. Use your head.

Not knowing these kinds of things can get you in trouble with the law in real life. If you truly don't know, you'd best start learning.


Quote:
The problem with terms like "princess JOB" comes when people abuse it.

"This princess COR left because we're making 15k/hr."
"This princess COR left because we don't have a BRD."
"This princess COR left because we're making 5k/hr..."
"This princess COR left because we're 6/6 and have no healer, not even a /DNC....."
"This princess COR left because we wiped to 4 G.Colibri in a row......."


People do abuse the term, yes, but that doesn't mean princess players don't exist. It's understandable for people to excuse themselves from parties like the bolded ones above, for instance.

But just because some high school kids abuse the term "***" and apply it to things that it should not be applied to does not mean that there's no such thing as homosexuals.


Quote:
People will have differing opinions about what's fast enough to be worth their time.


Right, and the extreme opinions will still get you labeled as a princess, nonetheless. As stated, it's really not hard to know what is reasonable. Insisting that a certain job is in your party, or that a certain job is never in your party, is just one of the many ways for me to brand you as one.

Don't like it? Try being less of a ****.


Quote:
But making judging remarks on someone, just because your standards are lower than theirs, is silly and futile.


If you're being a cockbite, I will certainly call you out as such. I already know it isn't going to change your behavior, but that doesn't stop you from being what you are.


Quote:
How about those darn "Princess Warriors", who dont voke off the "Princess Cor", and the "Princess RDM" who refuses to help sleep when light shot is down?
And the "Princess MNKs", who just engage and WS and soak up the xp; they just tick me off.


Anyone can be a princess player. It just applies more to jobs like BRD and COR because "everyone wants them" and therefore more of them feel they are more entitled to be choosy than anyone else.
#44 Jun 23 2009 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
"princess COR" and "princess BRD" make you sound like you're dissing a woman because she wouldn't fuck you. i know i'm talking to a wall, but i wish people could get it through their heads that people... actually... are... entitled... to... choose... who... they... party... with... regardless of how it makes you feel. read it slow, take it all in.

I'm not sure why you continue to have such an obsession with stopping use of the word "princess" (as opposed to, say, "noob" or "gimp"), but it goes beyond simple I-DCed-because-we-weren't-making-enough-exp.

It's the RDM who refuses to cast Dia because it's too bothersome.
It's the BRD who refuses to pull because it's too hectic.
It's the COR who use brass bullets because steel bullets are too expensive.

It's the general mindset of putting yourself above the rest of the party solely because the job you are playing is high demand.

Ever wonder why you don't hear about princess SCH, or princess THF, or princess BLU? Because those jobs don't get to be a princess. They get f*cking booted.

If you are one of the chosen few, you can be as much as an obstinate jerk as you want, and your parties either have to suck it up or be willing to sit in Whitegate hoping that another (high-demand) replacement pops up.

Do not attempt to simply frame this as people having minimum expectations; it goes far beyond that. All of us have seen the RDM that insists that everyone sub NIN so that he doesn't have to cure as much, even when that will reduce the party's performance.

It's not an issue of having standards; it's an issue of "I want what I want, and if you don't give it to me, I'm taking my ball and going home." THIS is what defines a princess.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 7:38pm by redvenomweb
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#45 Jun 23 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, COR does have the right to not want to pull, and have a BRD do it, but also, if you're gonna pass on pulling duties, you better be ready to do something else to help the party. Myself personally, won't join a merit party if there is no BRD pulling, but I also spent a lot of gil getting my gear to the point where I can essentially be the 4th DD. Sure I'm not putting up SAM or DRG like numbers, but I hold my own pretty well, and have no problems spamming Slug Shot with Steel Bullets and keeping up 2-3 rolls always (COR and Chaos always, and using Evoker's if the mage is getting a bit low).

I have left parties with the other people pretty impressed with my output, and always have requests to go party with them again. I put in my seacom that I do not wish to pull, and always ask before accepting an invite, as to not cause drama once we reach camp. I feel that is my right as someone who sunk a lot of money into not being the prototypical sit back, buff, and in some cases, forced to /WHM and backup heal COR. Too often people consider COR to just be a support job, when it has been stated many times it's a Support/DD hybrid job, and I plan on playing both parts of that equation so that I can enjoy my time meriting, and that is what it's about anyway, right? If we aren't having fun, what are we doing?
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#46 Jun 23 2009 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm drunk but i've been playing since the NA release and i say 'princess' isn't a valid term. is that enough for you ******* *****?

p.s. i haven't been playijng since the NA release but i dfid start playing in 2004 so my opiunion is matter
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#47 Jun 24 2009 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
i'm drunk but i've been playing since the NA release and i say 'princess' isn't a valid term. is that enough for you @#%^ing sh*ts?

p.s. i haven't been playijng since the NA release but i dfid start playing in 2004 so my opiunion is matter


i have never heard of this player before or his opinions but i believe he is probably right
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#48 Jun 24 2009 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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p.s. this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGc_KIiSRs
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#49 Jun 24 2009 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:


WHAT!? HOLD ON THAT VIDEO CUTS OFF LIKE HALFWAY THROUGH THE SONG!

F

U

C

K


Y

O

U



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBCAPakjr8k

ALSO SOME RANDOM GACHIMUCHI VIDEOS THAT I'LL NEGLECT TO LINK BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WON'T APPRECIATE IT

CAPS

CAPS

CAPS

CAPS

CAPS

SPAC

PAC

P

PEE
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pahn
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#50 Jun 24 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
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believe it
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#51 Jun 24 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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I wonder who won the pool for which job forum would be the first to realize awesomeness of drunk pahn outside mnk forums.
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