JP Opinions of CORFollow

Yeah, chalk it up to being a failCOR, there are plenty around. Sadly. He could also be doing Slug Shot with 200 marksmanship skill, ya never know.

/WHM is never accepable because /DNC does everything it can do but better, if you absolutely must help the gimp RDM heal.

Neither of those CORs could cast haste.

No but I have eliminated a RDM with a DNC on a few occasions. Haste samba, Box step and SAM/Chaos rolls while I was /NIN pulling. We had no problem keeping chains going and everybody healed.

But two COR can't do it because of lack of haste buff. Although arguably, having Chaos/Hunters/Fighters on the Melee would somewhat make up for it esp with no /NIN requiring the utsu recasts to be hasted.

I like playing /whm^^
I also like playing /rng.
JP people never ask me to come /whm.
NA people never ask me to come /rng.
Seems like no one really cares, as long as i SUPPORT the party with my rolls, SUPPORT the DD with damage, or SUPPORT the healers with heal.
Ive read alot of stupid post on this thread, alot of you are just ignorant and assume alot. And before you say /dnc is better then my /whm, i'll just say i havent used /dnc yet, it might be better, but until i level it to 37 i wont know, and when i do, it will just be another subjob i can have on the very versatile and fun class of cor. play the game, stop crying, and stop knocking the other playerbases. I am half jp and half american, and there are things i hate and like about both of you on ffxi. both sides have their pros and cons on what they do, but if you dont like something, nothing is preventing you from hitting disband and walking away.

If a brd can pull and at least keep up ballad2.....

And evokers avg is over 2 even without relic. Its about 3 with relic hat. And can be even higher avg depending on how you use snake eye/fold.



?!

What does the # of DD matter. The more DD there are, the less I as a COR will have hate. Therefore I will be less of an mp sink /rng or /war with 3 dd vs when I have less dd for some reason. (Unless you are comparing it to a 4 dd cor + mage party, but I do those)

As the weakest DD in a party (you should be, or you should be kicking some crap DDs), you should have hate the least. On top of all that, you add refresh to the mix, so you would have to cause the depletion of all that mp before you were an mp sink vs a mp source. I dont get hit enough every 2 mins to require cure 4 unless I do something stupid like use all my JAs and WS in a row.

A COR should only be /nin when the extra defense is actually needed. I have yet to find a situation in merits where it was the best option. /rng, /war, and /dnc are all better depending on the circumstance.

Not having used something in no way diminishes the fact that it is in every way a better healing sub for COR then whm could ever be in every merit situation in FFXI 100% of the time.

COR/WHM just isn't good at all imo. For healing /dnc is better, and for events /rdm is better. I have never needed to remove status effects as COR, and if a group is relying on a COR for that, it should regroup, its on a path to fail. I have all these subs. I have tried every one of them in many situations since COR came out (I had COR to 75 in 3 weeks after release).
Even if you did want to heal with a mage sub, the best choice would be sch not whm imo.

As to knocking the other playerbase, its fun. JP play very poorly, and very inefficiently. Thier poor choices on SJs make noobs using /search to think that those subs are good, when in fact they are not. On top of all that, many JP treat us like crap. They are oft very arrogant and racists towards NA.

I say tear them a new one. And /check all JP you see, and always an extra time if they change equips to make you lose lock.

I'm sure the DD will kick a BRD that buffs them, but is lazy on the ballad cycle. Good thinking Kerb.




First of all, my math is right. This has nothing to do with 'feelings'. The COR relic hat isn't that hard to obtain because it drops well and it isn't that fought over compared to the rdm hat. However, the relic cor hat doesn't automatically give you a 3 tick Evoker's 100% of the time if you don't roll a lucky. Besides that, it's possible you could easily roll a 9 which does affect averages. Before you claim you can just use Snake eye, I doubt you would use it unless both melee rolls happened to be lucky. So in other words, I doubt the mage doesn't get the short end of the straw here.






2 COR
2 BRD if lucky
3 RDM
1 Sanction only if low enough mp
1 vermy

That's the real average of refresh in a party, refresh body and hat is not 'average'. Out of 100 RDM's, only 10 will have a hat vs the other 90 that don't. I'd say Mor robe/Dalma is more likely, but the Vermy IMO is more realistic.


Edited, May 15th 2009 6:27pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

wut

This thread has been amusing for all the wrong reasons. Racism and ignorance of the fact that other cultures that you perceive as wrong or backwards might be just as good as yours among other things made me laugh.

Btw, for the record I play /nin, and I could care less what anyone else says. If one party doesn't like it I'll have another one in about 2 seconds anyways.

Sometimes I don't want to be ultra efficient. I do it enough irl, so when I get on the game I do what I do to get decent xp and enjoy myself. I think its a reasonable compromise.

I like to drink beer served to me by women. Rawr!

I have to agree. I haven't gotten a job past level 60 yet, and I've only been playing about 6 months, but so far just based on the forums, this game is more about number crunching than about actually just plain old playing how you want to. I've played a dozen MMOs over the years and this is the first one that members of the community ostracize you if you don't play the way they want you to.

I thoroughly enjoy the game and don't plan on going anywhere any time soon, but I am just plain tired of hearing people complain that I might be wearing less +Attack or +Accuracy gear than I should be at my level. So I miss 1 out of 5 ranged attacks instead of 1 out of 10, or my bullets hit for 88 damage instead of 92. I'm ok with that. I'm not trying to turn this into a science project and crunch numbers into what gear is best and how many seconds into the fight I need to use Quick Draw or whether I should be spacing my Phantom Rolls at 72 seconds for proper overlap. The game isn't a job, I don't get paid to listen to people telling me what to do, how to level, or what to wear when I log in, so I am not going to always do what other people want me to do.

Well, forums always attract the hardcore rather than the casual players, so it's going to be a bit biased compared to how things really are in Vanadiel.

SOme people feel the purpose of the game is to perfect your avatar. Others feel it is to adventure and meet new people. Still others view it as an opportunity to gain some respect to make up for a perceived lack IRL. There are tons of different motivations to play a game like this.

PLay for yourself and don't take what people say on these forums too seriously. The forums are helpful for those wanting to improve their characters and use knowledge gleened over many parses. They are not good places to come for validation.

Actually that one came to me shortly after I made the post and was too lazy to go back in and edit it.

We all have our reasons for getting lost in Vanadiel. For me its a fantasy respite from having to tell people they're going to die from their brain tumor every day. So as serious as many of you seem to make this game, I can only laugh about that.

RL does not = FFXI.

RL comparisons don't work in FFXI, because there are no speed limits to exp/hour.

If you can do better, you should. It's one thing to not be able to. It's another to actually have a better option, be told that it's better, be proven that it's better through parsers, and then specifically choose to be worse just because another nation(s) joined your national video game franchise online and for once were better at it than you (the JPs). It would be one thing if they simply admitted they would rather be gimp and always have everyone in the white HP. It's a completely different story when they say that they are actually faster at meriting with Cor/WHM. And "Imma Computa". Riiiight.





Brd can't DD half as well as a Cor. That is why they make a great backup support healer (if they can manage that with pulling and singing/stringing).

You're right if you can do better, you should. My gripe with your logic is you're using the almighty parser as the smoking gun. I prefer to research the intangible evidence you don't see on a parse or easily dismissed by e-peen elite. The elite TP burn setup works great until someone d/c, someone makes a minor mistake, or bad luck reigns its ugly head. The problem is with all things, people don't keep that perfect level of concentration forever. Mistakes happen and people die. What usually happens in merit parties is we get to some triple chain followed by death of someone due to a mistake or bad luck. People take that as their cue to disband party because the concentration needed for this is on a downward spiral. The BRD who is bored of singing a their songs or mass pulling gets sloppy. Or the DD that is balancing hate well begins to either hold back(semi afk) or is reckless or doesn't voke off slept mobs. The mentality of teamwork is a lost art in NA/EU parties. It's just TP mob, mash WS button, and back to TP mob spam for hours on end. Most WAR's don't want to voke because it lowers their damage, God forbid the mob chases after the puller.

If you are a support job, then play that role. Rolling 3 buffs and meleeing without a care to your surroundings is not support, it's called being lazy. I just don't understand why so many on here advocate DD first, support last. If you want to DD only, that's what RNG is for.

In closing, I support the JP theme of teamwork maybe because of my life experiences idk. I don't agree however with subbing /whm either. Because it offers nothing that benefits our job. By that same token, both /rng and /war fail to impress me because of the limited support. If Light shot fails, you're going to take damage. If you're caught in AoE, you're going to take damage. If your party is caught up in AoE paralyze, you're last to be paralyna because you're not helping anyone or contributing as much as the main DD's. For meripo, only /nin or /dnc are acceptable to me. COR/nin obviously for pulling, migrating damage, and Dot weapons/or RACC. COR/dnc gives an ACC trait, Def/evasion debuffs(like Dia and Gravity), samba(regen/aspir), and cures and Erase. The only time in meripo where I would find /rng or /war appealing is LS parties or if DD was lacking.(too much support)

No merits are about getting limit points to apply to your character to make them better at the things you like to do when you are not meritting. How one goes about that is up to them at a personal level. Turning this task into a competition really takes the fun out of it for the majority of players.

No, they never were the best at everything. Even when they were 2~3 years longer in game, americans are usually the ones who push towards efficiency.


As you stated before, Japanese always played it safe. Some like that style, some not. It is certainly not as effective as the way americans play, but it also tends to be less disastrous when it derails.

How do you figure that? I've already gave a few reasons to prove that COR/rng is NOT a good team work combo. It's all about your e-peen, nothing to do with team work or benefiting the party unless you don't have any DD's in the first place. If a party has a WAR, DRG, and SAM all well geared and played, /rng is irrelevant. The differences between /dnc,/whm,and /rng are more than you like to admit. COR/dnc and /whm both help the party though some type of support, /rng doesn't. For example, both can remove paralyna,cure, regen and debuff mob's def. COR/dnc just meshes better for a support DD by giving us a single ACC bonus plus all the other tricks. Think about it for a moment. Let's say you're using the Chaos roll. Notice how this ATK up helps everyone. Well Boxstep and Quickstep is the same thing. By using them at the proper time, you benefit the entire party that much more. If you have a RDM healer and you all get Paralyzed by the dragons, how does /rng help in that regard? What you going to do, pop Barrage and pray that para doesn't get eaten and recast to 5min. If healing waltz is eaten, it's no big loss and you can try again in a few seconds or the healer can remove it on you so you can remove it on others. Nobody that is arguing /dnc is focusing on a lot of healing. Back-up healing means just that, back-up. The debuffs however are always useful. So is the ACC/RACC boost.

COR/rng is good at 2 camps IMO. The Mire especially with Imps and Colibri if your DD are good and not mp sinks. I say the Mire because those imps wreck havoc on TPing up in close range and always blocking your rolls with annesia. So /rng is ideal in that regard, /nin would be good too if you're pulling.




First of all, nobody should be asking you to pull, heal, and still do primary buffs. If you pull, you go /nin just like a BRD and you buff, that's it. You're talking my words out of context and it's very sad. A support COR doesn't do all those things. If /dnc, you should use the proper step to debuff, use samba ONLY if needed, and proceed like normal with your buffing cycle/DD.

By skewing the results by hand picking your party from LS members, you lose any credibility in understanding the situation. There's nothing wrong partying with ls mates, but to claim your contributions are worthy with a hand picked group is downright insulting. You used a loaded deck. That being said, I agree with your last sentence to a degree. If you change your sub because you don't trust your party, that's not a good decision. Usually people sub /nin in these situations just because it's 'safer'.

The bottom line my friend is 'urdoingitwrong', only you don't know it. You come on COR in a buffing/support roll and then proceed to play like a wannabee RNG. That's no worse than those RDM's years ago being invited for refresh and exploiting that easy invite to play whack-a-mole at the mob's HP bar. If I wanted a ranged DD job, I'd get a RNG or SAM/rng. That's not an insult to COR or an implication that we cannot do damage, only that's not our intended role. We're not invited for DD normally unless PL/outside healers and other factors weigh in the discussion. So it makes very little sense to focus on the exact opposite of the reason we got invited. I just don't understand why so many people don't get it. I'll say it once more hoping it gets though to you. COR's main job is support IE buff whore. Depending on party setup, you might sub /nin for pulling or /rng if you're short on DD's. You can't use your personal situation of 'friends and 'ls mates' to load the deck into your favor. The concept of a pick up party reminds me of the movie Forrest Gump. "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get"

Edited, May 25th 2009 11:36pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

Edited, May 25th 2009 11:39pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

RNG 75

But that aside, I'm not that competitive in FFXI. Or at least I've always preferred just to compete against myself. I'd rather cooperate with others and try to make them better than try to outdo them. That's why I gravitate to Support jobs in general.

But for those that wish to compete I'd just suggest you party with like-minded folk. Otherwise you just come off as an ass.

You're pissed because they get group invites just the same as you and chances are their groups probably gets about the same xp/hour.

This is a very important altitude in this game to have.

I do not like pick on what other does (as long as it does not step into my foot) unless they are cheating, intentionally glitching and exploiting the game.

Frankly, threads like this is a big dead horse. I would rather people necro an old post about this, instead of starting a new one >_>

That's your opinion, as for regard to the e-peen comparison. As for XP per hour, I'd be willing to wager for non-colibri camps, /dnc will out parse /rng any day of the week in xp per hour. Debuffs are much more useful over time than a spiked Barrage or berserked damage. Again, subbing /dnc isn't about spamming TP to help cure. It's about debuffing the mob and helping heal in a pinch to keep the flow of XP going. You can't tell me that if a person is fang rushed while the healer is in mid cast of haste or some misc spell it doesn't help to have an emergency cure just to keep them alive. Nor say Healing waltz removing Paralyze off DD's faster doesn't increase Dot/reduce damage taken. For reducing damage taken, it allows you to get Third eye or shadows up easier. This is where the teamwork element comes into play.

COR/dcn is superior to /war and /rng in every camp besides colibri. The only reason for this is because the colibri are harmless and weak. More damage is a good thing as debuffs help less due to less time alive.



I'm assuming this is a colibri party because that's the only time you could get away with this. That being said, the extra damage is only significant IF your party is able to chain that fast. Now before you jump the gun on my meaning behind this, rest assured if camps are free, it's not a difficult task.




That's because you guys disband when people want to leave. It's when nobody says anything in /p chat until the mistake happens is what I was referring to. This isn't limited to merit parties either. Often times though, people get bored or whatever and start posting TNL's.

The difference of opinion we have is because we see things in another perspective. Imagine if you were set to go hiking in the mountains. If your friends came ill-equipped for hiking wearing sandals compared to your hiking boots, who would tire first? That's exactly my point here in FFXI merits. The 'NA method' is about quick fast XP with very little support, grab a few merits and disband. The 'JP method' focuses more on teamwork that provides the pullers/healers with less stress thus allowing for a longer more comfortable party setting. So while the NA's probably do get more XP per hour, they don't net as much XP overall because people burn out. You said it yourself, you go until people want to go. Most of my long time BRD friends get tired of pulling non stop with DD's destroying mobs in 0.5sec.

So you see it's not only about XP per hour, but the comfort zone of how that XP is obtained. If you're only a DD or a COR/rng, you won't understand. The stress of a healer is not to be underestimated. You see if a DD gets sloppy near the 2hr+ mark, you only burn out the healer/puller faster. Whether it might be a tad slow on reapplying Third eye or sitting on TP due to mutli-tasking on your PC doing something else. These are only a few examples, so don't think this is the gospel.

The COR/DNC discussion would be relevant if JPs subbed DNC, but they don't. They sub WHM.

Yes.

That's... extremely selfish.

First off, its not my opinion, it is by definition the point of and Experience Party. They are to get EXP.

Second, we all know exactly what /dnc is for and how to use it.

Third, You make assumptions about my parties THAT ARE WRONG. If someone ges fang rushed, then they get healed, happens all the time perfectly well with no deaths and the mage never running out of mp. I get tired of exp after about 2 hours. I have my 5-6 merits, and am happy. Time to go do other stuff or go outside.

Note: 3rd eye is a JA an no one ever has trouble "getting it up". Plus it hardly matters, 1 hit generally loses any DD hate to one of the others.
And why are people paraed, skoffins are a waste of time to fight unless the rest of the zone is dead. And JAs are so unreliable under para anyway.

And Mamool are just as harmless and weak as birds. They all just die in a few secs, get off 1-2 tp moves at best, and only have 1 or 2 moves to worry about anyway.



I get away with it all the time at Mamool. In fact, I can't think of any merit party I have even been in at mamool that had any of the problems you describe. Quit the noobtastic pickups or something. Your view of merit partys is nothing at all like my experience with merit parties.

/DNC results in more exp only when more healing is needed no non-stop fight or if box steps DEF down will out parse you. I am sure gimp CORs may do less damage than boxsept adds to everyone else, but thats not me. Now sure I have 3 DDs @ mamool all sam or /sam, then sure i might bring /DNC. I have many times, however it all depends on WHO the DDs are. The best don't need me /DNC.

Hell, with the top tier of people I merit with I have to sub nin and help pull. To Clear all of mamool staging point with 1 party. (Because you can kill faster than 1 person can ever manage to pull with enough pimpness.




I could not disagree more. I make a merit party with friends, we merit until we don't want to anymore then do something else. I dont want to waste more TIME in exp parties. I have merited in fast partys that CAPPED MY MERITS went and spent them and CAPPED them again. 20 merits in 1 party. But I rarely WANT to play that long or do the same thing for that duration.

This game has tons of non exp things for me to do. I go and do them...

People are not burned out and unable to perform after 2 hours. Its just time to DO SOMETHING ELSE. The problems YOU face are not any that I face. I am sorry you can't get better parties.