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How do you manage it all, 4 Buffs, DD, and pulling?Follow

#1 Apr 15 2009 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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I am starting to feel a little overwhelmed. Lately, I have been asked to pull for my parties. I also need to maintain 4 buffs, 2 on Melee, 2 on Mages. Plus I need to contribute my damage so I feel like I am doing more than just pulling and buffing.

Seems that I am always allowing my buffs to drop on someone, and if I stay behind long enough to buff, my pulls aren't fast enough.


Veterans, how do you folks manage all this workload?
#2 Apr 15 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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Invite a BRD to pull.
#3 Apr 15 2009 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, what level COR are we talking about? Pulling at 75 is vastly different than low lvls or even 50+. If we're talking merits, doing all of the above is nearly impossible. If your pt is a lil slow at killing, you can outpull them and take a few shots at the bird they are killing after you've slept your own.

If your pt is not at a level where consistently getting higher than chain 7 is legit, then it's not so bad. You buff when you need to buff. That should take precedence over anything. You can disengage a lil early and either go for the next pull or go buff the mages real quick (you can obviously buff the melee at any point if you're joining them).

The biggest part is just repetition. The more you do it, the more you get that clock in your head that says "you haven't rolled in a while, it's probably time. Pre-75 you're pretty much rolling as soon as phantom roll is up to maintain rolls anyway. If you dont ave windower, just build a /recast macro. I used to put 4-6 JAs/spells in the macro. So "/recast "Phantom Roll" hit that and it will ell u how many seconds till your roll is up. When it's ready, go roll. That's the easiest, non-windower way to do it.

A hint, if you plan to put several JAs or whatever in one recast macro (I used to do this on SAM for med, third eye, seigan, etc etc), put the MOST IMPORTANT one in the list LAST. Battle txt spam flies by prety fast. If you have a list of 6 recasts, the one you're mostly likely to see is the last one.

Anyway, at 75 you'll either be full-time pulling/buffing or full-time DD/buffing. Makes it a bit easier. That recast macro should help you a lot, at least on keeping rolls up. And if you don't need to roll right away, disengage a lil early for the next pull or even position yourself during the fight so you can see the pull area and perhaps see where the next mob is even before you leave. But I'd say if the mob is near death and you need to both pull and do a roll, do the roll first. If you're under chain 5, you won't lose the chain anyway. If you're over chain 5, chances are you're not getting much higher than that if you're not 70+.

Hope that helps.
#4 Apr 16 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Im not close to 50 yet... just hit 40 if that helps. I do have a pretty good idea when rolls are supposed to be done, but it seems that I am always getting sidetracked into pulling and people's rolls drop off at that time, which then delays the rolls to come all the way down the line.
#5 Apr 16 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Well when you have to pull and have a 4 roll rotation, I found that you don't really have the luxury of rerolling RIGHT at the 1:00 recast so you can leave 2 melee buffs on you for 2 minutes...instead you take advantage of your recast being up between pulls and make sure you keep rolls up.

As said before...just try to leave a hair early for the next pull unless you need a minute for MP or to heal HP after a nasty fight, and interrupt your DDing to apply buffs. All you'll miss out on is a shot or two to reapply instead of having the party wait 10-15 seconds for Roll + doubleups after the fight that could break the chain.

As I like to say with COR...it just takes experience to get a "feel" of the timers and how to manage everything. You'll get it down...but I agree, it's infinitely easier to keep a good roll rotation up without having to pull. You can still do it, just makes timers tougher to manage.
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#6 Apr 16 2009 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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#7 Apr 16 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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just hit 40 if that helps.

Evokers Roll level, so I'm imagining you're rolling that at the very least. Melee rolls are probably Hunters/Chaos. Maybe Samurai roll if there's a SAM in the pt. Is your fourth roll Healer's? (not in that order)

When I was around that level and asked to pull, I tried keeping a 4 roll rotation going, but sometimes healer's roll just wasn't necessary. So I just kept evokers up on the mages/pld tank. Just because people can benefit from two rolls, doesn't mean they have to. If your party's support really was taxed on MP, then I'd suggest either asking if someone else can pull, or try to keep up with your rotation. Majority of the playerbase IMO don't freak out when they are missing a roll for a few moments.
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#8 Apr 16 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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To add on to the last post...

I usually do Evoker's, then Healer's...then Melee rolls. Since often you only have Evoker's/Healer's on 1 or maybe 2 people depending on your party, it's easy to miss the 1 line message that it wears.

By doing this order...if Evoker's wears and I miss it, if I catch Healer's wearing off, I then apply Evoker's right away, skip Healer's, and still am on pace to get the melee buffs up on time. Then I restart the cycle asap after the melee rolls to get all 4 back up.

Just a thought.

Edited, Apr 16th 2009 1:50pm by dawgdchi
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#9 Apr 16 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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kk, so lvl 40 you probably aren't getting chain 6 and it's amazingly easy to get chain 5. I guess if it's an east ron (S) colibri burn you could get a lil higher but I haven't lvled a job that level in ages so I've never done one.

I will say that COR rolls take a bit of getting used to. I was a career DD before COR (heh, i still am). Never leveled BRD in a pt (it's lvl 9), took RDM to 37 but that was mostly solo so I had zero experience buffing people or trying to keep a cycle up before COR.

But yeah, make a recast macro and use it so you know when rolls are ready (again, if you use windower, this is a non-issue, it does that for you). Disengage from the mob a little early to either start the next pull or go buff a mage if they need it. Buffs before pulls. Like I said, you're not infinite chaining and below chain 5, you have an eternity to get that next mob for the chain.

As for your question in another thread, yeah racc is like that. You typically need more racc than you would need acc in a similar situation. I have a ton of racc gear. If i went crazy, I could get something like racc +115 on gear alone. Obviously I don't do that, but I have that much gear. If you feel your racc is lacking, try add some until you feel it's good enough. Vice versa, if you're never missing, maybe pull a little racc off for some rattack or STR instead. Having a parser is good for this cuz lord knows if you're pulling, DDing, buffing, you may not have time to count your hits and misses lol.

But yeah, at 40, chains won't be higher than 5 typically. I'm guessing you're in the nest and crawlers in the basement and they are so spread out. Maybe that's another thing that you need to think about. I've pulled on every job I have (I even pulled on BLM sporadically lol). Really get to know your camp, where the pops are and try to pull in a way that you can cycle through that too. For example, if you're at secret room in the nest, pull the crawlers at the mouth of the entrance first, then get the south ones, then head north. At some point at first ones will repop and you can't miss them. At that point, just go through the cycle again. If you know where the mobs will typically be and remember what you've already pulled, you spend less time hunting. But, if there's another pt at that camp too.. not a whole lot you can do. You can't watch them too.

But yeah, buffs > pulls.

#10 Apr 16 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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By doing this order...if Evoker's wears and I miss it, if I catch Healer's wearing off, I then apply Evoker's right away

This actually sounds like a good idea. I used scavenge/camouflage right before I started my roll rotations and /recast to let me know when my rotation was going to start, but never thought about doing this.
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#11 Apr 16 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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I just found myself missing that one line message from time to time. While MP/Refresh is pretty easy to eyeball, when you have a RDM + BRD + COR, it's really tough to know if the MP they're getting back is due to Refresh, Ballads, Evokers, or Sanction. I found this way, I have a little room for error with the only dropped roll being Healer's, and Melee's are still on time.
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#12 Apr 16 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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By doing this order...if Evoker's wears and I miss it, if I catch Healer's wearing off, I then apply Evoker's right away, skip Healer's, and still am on pace to get the melee buffs up on time. Then I restart the cycle asap after the melee rolls to get all 4 back up.

This is exactly what I did, too.

Quote:
If your pt is a lil slow at killing, you can outpull them and take a few shots at the bird they are killing after you've slept your own.

Good advice but I'd be wary about trying it before you can equip a light staff. Your healer would have to be ready with a backup sleep if light shot fails, and even then, people start freaking out when they see 2 mobs and do silly things like burn their 2-hours, or try and solo the add, and end up tanking the rest of the fight.

40-50 is the worst time to be pulling on cor. Even if you do an amazing job there will still be issues.
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#13 Apr 16 2009 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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"Good advice but I'd be wary about trying it before you can equip a light staff. Your healer would have to be ready with a backup sleep if light shot fails, and even then, people start freaking out when they see 2 mobs and do silly things like burn their 2-hours, or try and solo the add, and end up tanking the rest of the fight."


Hmmm, I've actually never been resisted by a colibri on light shot since I merited QD to the max. But then again I havent tried it since enfeebs got all messed up soooo who knows.
#14 Apr 16 2009 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'm talkin' level 40.
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#15 Apr 16 2009 at 5:58 PM Rating: Default
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I don't find rolls to be as much of a hassle as some people are making it out to be. They last 5 minutes as opposed to BRD's 2 to 2.5 minute songs and they are applied much more quickly than songs are. At merit level, you can even make them longer if you choose to. The only real difference is that you have to space them out due to the Phantom Roll recast, but the bottom line is, you are doing 4 buffs every 5 minutes as opposed to 4 buffs in half the time on a job like BRD.

There might be fights where you won't contribute quite as much as others, such as rolling constant 1s on Evoker's Roll or something and needing to reroll often, but overall I don't see a big problem.
#16 Apr 17 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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I think the difference though is that the Bard...

(cant say for sure since I dont party with them and I havent leveled mine, and 54 is my highest job so I am a bit ignorant)

...is really only expected to be support full time. Buff front line, buff back line, one or two debuffs or dispels, throw out some heals if they can. I have heard of Bards pulling, but as I understand it, those are usually in burn groups where you go for as many pulls and kills as fast as possible, usually for Merit or Colibri groups (again, I can't say for certain).

Meanwhile, the COR who is subbing anything other than MAGE is expected to contribute Ranger-esque DD, pull if they have a gun (and why wouldn't we?), and still maintain all of their buff cycle. At least that is how the last 5 levels have been for me. Since getting Evoker's Roll, I have been feeling like I can't keep up, and once I had actually been asked why my melee only had one roll applied (while I was out pulling).


I'm not saying a COR is busier than a BRD, I hear they are pretty busy too with their shorter duration, I am just saying that I don't think a BRD has nearly as many *different* tasks to manage, which could be why they are more prized for support than COR are (again... I can't say for sure, I am still quite ignorant in the game mechanics).

Edited, Apr 17th 2009 2:35am by Mjrna
#17 Apr 17 2009 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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Mjrna wrote:
I'm not saying a COR is busier than a BRD, I hear they are pretty busy too with their shorter duration, I am just saying that I don't think a BRD has nearly as many *different* tasks to manage, which could be why they are more prized for support than COR are (again... I can't say for sure, I am still quite ignorant in the game mechanics).


The backline support/healing only bards you've been seeing are not what people are talking about when they say the job is busy. That is an easy role to play, and perfectly fine for early levels in my opinion, but once you get to ToaU areas and especially merit camps, you'll most likely see a lot more bards who are active 100% of the time.
#18 Apr 17 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Mjrna wrote:
I'm not saying a COR is busier than a BRD, I hear they are pretty busy too with their shorter duration, I am just saying that I don't think a BRD has nearly as many *different* tasks to manage, which could be why they are more prized for support than COR are (again... I can't say for sure, I am still quite ignorant in the game mechanics).

They are prized becuase of how they fit into Min/Max schema of FFXI. People invite specific jobs for a specific task thus a hybrid job such as COR are only invited for one pupose: to Buff.

Bards are prized over COR since they can buff quickly and pull incredibly safe and fast. Bards aren't known for their DD abilities and therefore aren't expected to contribute to the melee pool.

The majority of the populace looks at it this way:
  • Tank
  • Damage Dealer
  • Healer
  • Support



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#19 Apr 17 2009 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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For one, I like to alternate my buffs between mages and melee. If you miss one, atleast both groups will have atleast one buff on till next rotation. For example: If you're rolling drk, sam, smn, whm then i would order it sam > smn > drk > whm

#2 as far as pulling goes, usually if your light shot timer is up, it is safe to pull. So pull. If you're at G.colibri and your party isn't killing fast enough for you to pull once every 60-75 seconds then something's wrong. D:

#3 When pulling, I like to come RNG or SAM sub. Both have abilities to get TP instantly. Both help your damage but RNG isn't as safe for pulling.
RNG: Use barrage on one bird, use the WS on the next(or when you think a bird is taking too long to die). Has no dmg mitigation, but has enough firepower to let you help contribute to damage with barrage and the subsequent TP gain from it.
SAM: Use meditate to gain extra TP, hasso for STR for WS, and seigan+ third eye for added safety when pulling. Use light staff or fire staff for hasso/seigan to work properly o/


Only sub nin when you absolutely have to. ;O
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#20 Apr 17 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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SAM: Use meditate to gain extra TP, hasso for STR for WS, and seigan+ third eye for added safety when pulling. Use light staff or fire staff for hasso/seigan to work properly o/

I never really thought of this approach. Part of my motivation for /RNG is for the latent items and Accuracy that I get from it. Once I finish up the Ampoules for my Buccaneer's belt then the latent items will be less of an issue. But I like how good timing on Seigan/TE could still provide the pulling safety (or at least more than /RNG) while still offering something to contribute to DD (that /NIN does not).

I pretty much full time Fire Staff anyways, so that works fine for me. Good idea :)
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#21 Apr 17 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the difference though is that the Bard...

(cant say for sure since I dont party with them and I havent leveled mine, and 54 is my highest job so I am a bit ignorant)

...is really only expected to be support full time.


How is that any different from what (most) people expect from COR?

Ranger-esque DD? Lol. I wouldn't say that can't be done as I'm sure it has been, but I've yet to meet ANYONE that would expect it out of anyone else. Most people don't give a **** about how much damage the COR is doing as long as:

1) they are getting their buffs
2) they don't have to pull

The reason? They KNOW that the COR has other stuff to do. It's the same reason why you wouldn't bother parsing a BRD's damage if he tried to melee: you know it's going to be gimped because you're making him buff and pull too.

That's not to say you shouldn't try to do what damage you can, or that you should even make the COR pull in the first place, but most people view BRD and COR as mostly interchangeable jobs (whether you like it or not is really of no consequence). In my eyes, COR is a BRD that gives up a bit of its buff dependency (the roll system) in return for being able to do some damage. Oh, and people shout for you to reset their 2hrs in Whitegate all the time. Sorry about that.
#22 Apr 18 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
Don't worry as much about the dd. Just get used to the timing of each party first if you have to pull, and then try and land rolls at a convenient time. Once you get the flow of the party, you'll find times to dd with each pull. you also can just engage and weaponskill now and then from the tp you get by pulling.

You don't have to do it all. DD is just one aspect of what we can do, and to be honest, not the strongest one. If we have to be the only support puller, its better to adapt to that than muck it up by trying to force dding into the mix as well.

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#23 Apr 19 2009 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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COR doesn't pull!

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#24 Apr 19 2009 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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#25 Apr 20 2009 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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If i was doing all that and got complaints about missing a few rolls then i'd just pick up on the fact that

A) The mage is clearly not overworked, since they have so much time to comment on everything else.

B) The melee should pull; at level 40 80% of jobs are better at it than COR is.
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#26 Apr 20 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I usually just leave the second someone complains about a roll dropping or a roll not being rerolled within a minute or two if they're expecting me to pull as well..especially competing against multiple parties.

Seriously, everytime they're like:

"Ok COR..go pull."

Normally, I wouldn't mind..have to eventually but I always ask:

"So, why isn't the THF/WAR/SAM/BLU/DNC/BRD/RNG pulling again?"

After awhile you can get used to rotating 4 rolls, DD and Pulling but it's a lot better if you're doing one set over the other, like buffing/dd or buffing/pulling because doing all 4 especially lower levels is kinda heafty amount of work.

Edited, Apr 20th 2009 10:10am by Theonehio
#27 Apr 20 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Mjrna wrote:
I am starting to feel a little overwhelmed. Lately, I have been asked to pull for my parties. I also need to maintain 4 buffs, 2 on Melee, 2 on Mages. Plus I need to contribute my damage so I feel like I am doing more than just pulling and buffing.

Seems that I am always allowing my buffs to drop on someone, and if I stay behind long enough to buff, my pulls aren't fast enough.


Veterans, how do you folks manage all this workload?

Here is my Smiley: twocents

As a COR in that situation I prioritize in this way:
  • Pulling
  • Phantom Roll
  • Damage Dealing


You can only do 2/3 whole heartily. So filling in DD when you have the free time. I look at it this way. If you choose to pull, putting up buffs does no good if the PT isn't fighting a mob, and you shouldn't be doing DD if your rolls are down.

There are situations were other PT members are more capable of pulling. I usually go out of my way to make sure the PT goes as smotthly as possible, even if it means I'm pulling when there is someone more capable, but that's my choice. Do what works best for you.

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