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How Dice Rolling Works (Phantom Roll FAQ)Follow

#1 Apr 21 2006 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen a lot of bits and pieces on dice rolling, and I figured that (after some testing of my own) I'd provide a (edit: no longer short) guide on the mechanics of rolling dice.

As I've stated before, here are the different rolls, their level, and effect:

Roll Name               Effect                  LV      Lucky#  Unlucky# 
Corsair's Roll          +EXP                    5       5       9 
Ninja Roll              +Evasion                8       4       8 
Hunter's Roll           +ACC/RACC               11      4       8 
Chaos Roll              +ATK/RATK               14      4       8 
Magus's Roll            +Magic DEF              17      2       6 
Healer's Roll           +hMP                    20      3       7 
Puppet Roll             +pet ACC                23      4       8 
Choral Roll             -spell interruption     26      2       6 
Monk's Roll             +Subtle Blow            31      3       7 
Beast Roll              +pet ATK                34      4       8 
Samurai Roll            +Store TP               37      2       6 
Evoker's Roll           Refresh                 40      5       9 
Rogue's Roll            +critical hit rate      43      5       9 
Warlock's Roll          +Magic Accuracy         46      4       8 
Fighter's Roll          +Double Attack          49      5       9 
Drachen Roll            +pet MAB/MACC           52      3       7 
Gallant's Roll          Damage reflection       55      3       7 
Wizard's Roll           +Magic Attack Bonus     58      5       9 
Dancer's Roll           +Regen                  61      3       7 
Scholar's Roll          +Conserve MP            64      2       6

Rolls are learned by using Die (like using a scroll for a magic spell), which can be bought from Chayaya @ J-8 in Al Zahbi (for original FFXI and WoG job dice) and Jajaroon @ G-7 in Nashmau (for RoZ/ToAU job dice).

Now, as for the actual mechanics of rolling...

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Job Abilities

At LV5, Corsair obtains two Job Abilities:

1) Phantom Roll (recast: 60 seconds)-
Starts the chosen roll. For example:

/ja "Corsair's Roll" <me>

...would use Phantom Roll to execute the Corsair's Roll. Six cards numbered I-VI will spin around your character, then one will be selected, and your running total will be shown.

The range of the Phantom Roll effect (using the Distance plugin for Windower) is 7.9, or 15.9 with Luzaf's Ring equipped.

2) Double-Up (recast: 7 seconds)-
After executing a Phantom Roll, you will have a 45 second Double-Up window to increase the value of your Roll. Each time you use the Double-Up JA, a set of six cards will spin around you and one will be selected. That card's value will be added to the total for your current Roll. You can continue to Double-Up until either you "Bust," or the 45 second Double-Up window expires.

Furthermore, the final roll value that a party member receives corresponds to the last roll/Double-Up that they were hit with, not the last one that you performed. If you hit 5/6 members with a V Evoker's and then run over to the 6th member and Double-Up to VIII, only the 6th member (and yourself, of course) have the VIII roll. The other 4 members have V.

The command for Double-Up is simply:

/ja "Double-Up" <me>

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Roll Duration and "Busting"

Rolls have a 5 minute duration, which starts from the moment you execute your Phantom Roll (not the moment you execute your last Double-Up on that Roll). However, if you Double-Up and your Roll total exceeds 11, you will "Bust" and all party members will lose the benefit of that Roll. In addition, you (the COR) will receive a negative penalty; for example, if you Bust on Ninja Roll, you will receive an Evasion debuff (-Evasion) for the duration of the Bust.

Busts also last for 5 minutes, but they last for 5 minutes from the moment of the Bust, not from the beginning of the Phantom Roll that led to the Bust.

It is also important to note that when you Bust, only party members in roll range will have the corresponding roll removed. In other words, if you Bust out of range of everyone else, they will all keep their roll (this can occasionally be useful for managing roll rotation).

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Removing/replacing Roll effects

You cannot manually cancel a Roll effect. However, a COR can overwrite a current Roll with a different Roll, provided that he does not have the desired replacement Roll active on himself. If you attempt to do a Phantom Roll for a Roll that is current active, you will receive the message, "The same roll is already active on <me>." Consequently, this means that you cannot "renew" a Roll like you can with a BRD song; you have to wait for it to expire (or replace it with a different Roll) first.

A COR main can provide two active Roll effects to the party. You can replace either of these effects with any inactive roll; however, if you Bust, you (the COR) can only have 1 effect active until Bust status expires (however, you can still provide two effects to the party by rotating your 1 open effect slot). If you Bust again and have double Bust status, you will be unable to successfully Roll until one of your Busts expires; any Roll attempt will result in "No effect."

Zoning will clear all Roll effects.

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Multiple CORs in party

Much like BRD songs, you can have multiple CORs in one party providing multiple Roll effects (two per COR).

--
Lucky / Unlucky numbers

As you can see from the chart above, each Roll has a "Lucky" and "Unlucky" number. Normally, the potency of a Roll corresponds to your running total for that Roll; a Ninja Roll with a total of III provides less +Evasion than a Ninja Roll with a total of VII. However, the Lucky/Unlucky numbers are an exception; a total that matches the Lucky number will provide an effect slightly less than a total of XI (the maximum effect), while a total that matches the Unlucky number will provide the lowest benefit of any roll (a lower effect than a total of I).

--
Exact roll effects

I strongly recommend that new corsairs consult this roll calculator Excel spreadsheet, created by Kylen. It gives a statistical analysis not only by roll probability, but by the actual return on each result, telling you whether the expected increase in buff potency is worth the risk (statistically speaking, of course). You can also see the average expected return on a roll (the "Expected Value of Double-Up" for Roll #0).

It is important to note that there is a level-based penalty on Chaos Roll or Wizard's Roll when the COR is lower-level than the target:
corLVL / targetLVL x bonus total

Other rolls may also be affected by this level penalty (though Evoker's definitely is not).

Here's a quick reference to the data contained in the spreadsheet (these values do reflect the changes from the 8/27/07 patch)...

Corsair's Roll - EXP Bonus (with COR):
I    = +10% EXP 
II   = +11% EXP 
III  = +11% EXP 
IV   = +12% EXP 
V    = +20% EXP 
VI   = +13% EXP 
VII  = +15% EXP 
VIII = +16% EXP 
IX   = +8% EXP 
X    = +17% EXP 
XI   = +24% EXP 
Avg. = +15.7% EXP


Hunter's Roll - +ACC/RACC (without RNG/with RNG):
I    = +10/25 
II   = +13/28 
III  = +15/30 
IV   = +40/55 
V    = +18/33 
VI   = +20/35 
VII  = +25/40 
VIII = +5/20 
IX   = +27/43 
X    = +30/45 
XI   = +50/65 
Avg. = +29.6/42.6


Chaos Roll - +ATK/RATK (without DRK/with DRK):
I    = +6.3%/16% 
II   = +7.8%/17.6% 
III  = +9.4%/19.1% 
IV   = +25%/34.8% 
V    = +10.9%/20.7% 
VI   = 12.5%/22.3% 
VII  = +15.6%/25.4% 
VIII = +3.1%/12.9% 
IX   = +17.2%/27% 
X    = +18.8%/28.5% 
XI   = +31.2%/41% 
Avg. = +18.6%/27%


Magus's Roll - +Magic Defense Bonus (without BLU/with BLU):
I    = +5/13 
II   = +20/28 
III  = +6/14 
IV   = +8/16 
V    = +9/17 
VI   = +3/11 
VII  = +10/18 
VIII = +13/21 
IX   = +14/22 
X    = +15/23 
XI   = +25/33 
Avg. = +14.9/22.3


Healer's Roll - +hMP (without WHM/with WHM):
I    = +2/5 
II   = +3/6 
III  = +10/13 
IV   = +4/7 
V    = +4/7 
VI   = +5/8 
VII  = +1/4 
VIII = +6/9 
IX   = +7/10 
X    = +7/10 
XI   = +12/15 
Avg. = +7.3/10


Monk's Roll - +Subtle Blow (without MNK/with MNK):
I    = +8/18 
II   = +10/20 
III  = +32/42 
IV   = +12/22 
V    = +14/24 
VI   = +16/26 
VII  = +4/14 
VIII = +20/30 
IX   = +22/32 
X    = +24/34 
XI   = +40/50 
Avg. = +24/32.8


Samurai Roll - Store TP (without SAM/with SAM):
I    = +8/18 
II   = +32/42 
III  = +10/20 
IV   = +12/22 
V    = +14/24 
VI   = +4/14 
VII  = +16/26 
VIII = +20/30 
IX   = +22/32 
X    = +24/34 
XI   = +40/50 
Avg. = +23.6/32.8


Evoker's Roll - Refresh (without SMN/with SMN):
I    = +1/2 
II   = +1/2 
III  = +1/2 
IV   = +1/2 
V    = +3/4 
VI   = +2/3 
VII  = +2/3 
VIII = +2/3 
IX   = +1/2 
X    = +3/4 
XI   = +4/5 
Avg. = +2.3/3.3


Fighter's Roll - Double Attack + x (without WAR/with WAR):
I    = +1%/6% 
II   = +2%/7% 
III  = +3%/8% 
IV   = +4%/9% 
V    = +10%/15% 
VI   = +5%/10% 
VII  = +6%/11% 
VIII = +6%/11% 
IX   = +1%/6% 
X    = +7%/12% 
XI   = +15%/20% 
Avg. = +7.2%/11.6%


Drachen Roll - +pet MAB/MACC (without DRG):
I    = +3 
II   = +4 
III  = +12 
IV   = +5 
V    = +6 
VI   = +6 
VII  = +2 
VIII = +8 
IX   = +9 
X    = +10 
XI   = +16 
Avg. = +9.5


Gallant's Roll - % damage reflection (without PLD/with PLD):
I    = 5%/15% 
II   = 8%/18% 
III  = 24%/34% 
IV   = 9%/19% 
V    = 11%/21% 
VI   = 12%/22% 
VII  = 3%/13% 
VIII = 15%/25% 
IX   = 17%/27% 
X    = 18%/28% 
XI   = 30%/40% 
Avg. = 18%/26.9%


Wizard's Roll - Magic Attack Bonus (without BLM/with BLM):
I    = +2/6 
II   = +3/7 
III  = +4/8 
IV   = +4/8 
V    = +10/14 
VI   = +5/9 
VII  = +6/10 
VIII = +7/11 
IX   = +1/5 
X    = +7/11 
XI   = +12/16 
Avg. = +7.1/10.7


Dancer's Roll - +HP/tick (without DNC/with DNC):
I    = +4/7 
II   = +4/7 
III  = +11/14 
IV   = +4/7 
V    = +5/8 
VI   = +6/9 
VII  = +1/4 
VIII = +7/10 
IX   = +8/11 
X    = +8/11 
XI   = +14/17 
Avg. = +8.3/11


Credit for the above data should go to the following:
Corsair's Roll- Asphodel (Lakshmi)
Healer's Roll- Dracont (Titan)
Samurai Roll- myself
Wizard's Roll- Dyvid (Pandemonium), myself
Dancer's Roll- myself
Hunter's, Chaos, Magus's, Monk's, Fighter's, Drachen, Gallant Roll- http://ladyluck.holy.jp/cor

Edited, Dec 31st 2008 1:59pm by redvenomweb
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#2 Apr 21 2006 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Rate up! Excellent compendium of information!

Thank you!

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#3 Apr 21 2006 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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Nice.

I don't have ToAU yet, so I don't understand all of this in a crystal clear way yet.

Do rolls like Fighter's Roll, which gives +Double Attack, only affect WAR and /WAR in the party(those that actually have Double Attack); or would it apply Double Attack to all party members, while strengthening it in WAR and /WAR?

Some rolls obviously would affect any party members, being that those rolls aren't specific to a JA or JT.

And it's been said that COR can stick 2 rolls at once. And one roll lasts up to 5 minutes. Let's say you get 2 good rolls and leave them up. What then? If you landed them back to back fairly quickly, you would have a window of a little less than 5 minutes where you wouldn't have to land any more buffs, correct?

I guess at that point you launch into Card Shots on the mob, or throw out some Cures (depending on sub).

I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. Seacrest out.
#4 Apr 21 2006 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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The roll effects don't just effect mains and subs. They are kind of like BRD songs, and effect EVERYONE within range, and even if you don't have Double Attack, you will get that temporary effect, but it will be weaker then someone in the party with Double Attack already in effect + the +dbl atk effect.

You can stick two good rolls for 5 minutes a piece (so to speak), you can roll out another effect, but like BRD it will replace the old one. You CANNOT double up on effects and can only recast the same one when it has run out. The duration is the same time for every member in the party, so when your effect wears off, as will everyone else's.
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#5 Apr 21 2006 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow. If that 16% on the Lucky Number is the case, then it *really* helps to get a Jackpot (11). Jackpot on the Corsair's Roll gave me a ~24% exp bonus. 50 and 72 exp kills went up to 62 and 89.
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#6 Apr 21 2006 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if Cor/Brd or Brd/Cor will catch on. Sounds like a match made in heaven to me :D
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#7 Apr 21 2006 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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SheepishMonk wrote:
I wonder if Cor/Brd or Brd/Cor will catch on. Sounds like a match made in heaven to me :D


PlayOnline wrote:
A character with the ability to use both Phantom Roll and bard songs is restricted to a maximum combination of two effects per party member.


When I read that in the update details, it made it sound like combining COR and BRD wouldn't really get you that many benefits.

At least if you subbed a mage job you would have a variety of spells that weren't restricted by the roll/song stacking rules.
#8 Apr 21 2006 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I discovered something that hasn't really been mentioned yet. That is that if you are rolling and get a "bust," after the 1min re-roll timer cools off, you can attempt again with the same roll.

So, you do a Corsair's roll. first roll, you get a 6.
You decide to try again...get another 6...BUST.

Once 1 minute has passed from the time you first executed your Corsair's roll, you can try again. (In my case, I ended up doing the exact same thing, and had 2 "bust" effects active on me at the same time.) However, it appears that a "bust" counts as 1 of the 2 effects you are able to have on you. So, if you bust, then re-roll and get the effect you wanted, that's your maximum number of effects.

HOWEVER...currently I am only lvl 5, so the only roll I've been able to play with so far is Corsair's. So possibly you can have a Corsair's bust, a Corsair's roll, and a Ninja roll active at the same time. I'll find that out after I finally get to lvl 8.
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#9 Apr 21 2006 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Seekotwo wrote:
So possibly you can have a Corsair's bust, a Corsair's roll, and a Ninja roll active at the same time.


Not if your bust effect hasn't worn yet. I think your Corsair's Roll would be overwritten by your Ninja's Roll. I don't think the bust can be overwritten.

So it would go:

Billybarty uses Double-Up.
Billybarty busts.
(gain 1 "Bust" status)
Billybarty uses Corsair's Roll.
Billbarty rolls a 5.
(you have one "Bust" effect and one Corsair's Roll effect going now)
Billybarty uses Ninja's Roll.
Billybarty rolls a 6.
(at this point, "Bust" status remains, Corsair's Roll effect is replaced with Ninja's Roll effect, equalling 2 total effects still)

I could be wrong, but that's what I hear.
#10 Apr 21 2006 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, that's how I figured it would be, I just haven't been able to try it out yet. Thanks for clarifying that. ^^
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#11 Apr 21 2006 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Redvenom, are you leaving THF and taking up COR now?

Back on topic. Thinking this through, here's how I see COR working as part of the party dynamics. Forgive me if I don't get all the roll names correct.

COR uses Dark Knight Roll on the melle - Melle gains the effect of ATK up. There's a Dark Night in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses Ragers Roll on the melle - Melle gains the effect of Accuracy up. There's a RNG in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses Summoners Roll on the mages - Mages gains the effect of refresh. There is a SMN in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses another good roll for mages - Mages gain the other good effect.

Mob is dying very fast.

Right before the mob dies, COR uses Corsair's Roll - Party gains the effect of exp up. Party is happy happy happy.

The only problem I see, is the 1:00 timer and how to manage the exp up at the end of every mob vs. benificial party traits.
#12 Apr 21 2006 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Question, kinda pertains to the above post. It says a Corsair can only have 2 roll effects active at the same time. Does this mean 2 rolls/pt member/corsair, like bard songs? Or is it a strict 2 rolls/corsair?

In the above example...
Quote:
COR uses Dark Knight Roll on the melle - Melle gains the effect of ATK up. There's a Dark Night in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses Rangers Roll on the melle - Melle gains the effect of Accuracy up. There's a RNG in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses Summoners Roll on the mages - Mages gains the effect of refresh. There is a SMN in the party, so the effect is doubled.

COR uses another good roll for mages - Mages gain the other good effect.


Is this possible? Or would the first 2 rolls count as the maximum?

Edited, Fri Apr 21 14:37:18 2006 by AchillesOfUnicorn
#13 Apr 21 2006 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Understand that the COR abilities are added to all party members in AoA range, much like a bard. So much like a bard, we'll be running between the Melle and the Mages so the melle only get melle rolls and the mages only get mage rolls.

Both the Melle and COR will have two roll's active and then the COR runs over to the mages, and uses two mage Roll's thus, overwriting the two previous melle roll's active on the COR. Rinse repeat, fire off a bullet when you can.
#14 Apr 21 2006 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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due to the 1:00 timer on Phantom Roll i dont believe we're going to see a whole lot of throwing the EXP bonus out near mob death.

Theoretical scenario:

Last fight, COR put Healer's Roll on mages.

Before the pull,COR Jackpot's a Chaos Roll.... lets say it's +20% atk. (not that i would know)

COR lands a decent Hunter's Roll, a 7.

1 minute later, COR puts 4mp/tic refresh on the mages.

Another minute later, the mob is near death (this is already a 2 minute fight, a little unrealistic because chains 4 and 5 would be lost at this point, if this is your 5th or 6th mob) and COR rolls EXP buff, wiping the +hMP and ATK rolls from everyone. (am i correct here, is it the oldest roll that's replaced? lets move forward assuming i am)

The COR in question now has to wait another 4 minutes to replace these buffs, since the first 2 will only wipe the other buff, leaving the EXP bonus up until another set can be rolled. At higher levels i don't believe the time wasted will be worth it.

During merit PTs i may be able to envision leaving Refresh and Attack up on the mages/melee respectively and just adding EXP roll since the fights are SOOOO quick...and relatively low amounts.

On another note... COR+BRD+RDM (since rolls and refresh and ballads all stack, tested with juice and bard song) could equal 10+mp /tic refresh O_o nuts.

(i once was a THF, i will now be maining COR for almost everything i do once it's sufficient level)
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#15 Apr 21 2006 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I see it as being more likely that you'll roll DRK for melee, SMN for mages, and COR for everyone.

Edited, Fri Apr 21 17:07:18 2006 by redvenomweb
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#16 Apr 21 2006 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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25+ i'm going to be in a static with my COR, so i guess i'll do what my friends ask of me.

OH, and before anyone starts whining, "Why do you think COR will get more than 3mp/tic refresh? BRD and RDM don't!", think for a second. Cor cannot Dispel, or Sleep, or Slow, or Elegy, or Haste, or March, or DoT... at least from main. I think _potentially_ being able to land more than 3mp/tic refresh and the occasional sick attack numbers will compensate. (i forgot, with Soul Voice, BRD can produce 6MP/tic.)
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#17 Apr 21 2006 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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After further testing, Double-Up's recast is 7 seconds, not 10. Hey, it was 5 AM, cut me some slack. =P

Original post has been edited accordingly.
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#18 Apr 22 2006 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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this is the job i'm having the most fun 1-10 on (plus i got a 65whm/smn pl'er)
#19 Apr 22 2006 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
Gah, wish I'd read this thread before getting on the boat to Nashmau, getting kicked off, and getting on the boat again. I could have bought dice in Al Zhabi :(

On topic: I see Corsair's Roll as being solo-only. Keeping battle-centric buffs (I'm a brd, so I'm thinking like Minuet & Ballad) will increase your exp/hr by far more than 16% on a chain #3 or #4 every now and then. In solo situations, where you're going to wind up resting till your rolls wear off anyways, there's no reason not to Corsair's Roll up.

Bear in mind that it's the lowest-level roll available...there's not many jobs that use their low-level spells right up to endgame. Dia being the only real example I can think of...but even then, only until Dia II is available.
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#20 Apr 23 2006 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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the only time you really need corsair's roll up is right before the mob dies, do it a bit before, and everyone gets good exp, then re-do the beneficial ones
#21 Apr 24 2006 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Zoning will clear all Roll effects.




So if you bust then zone you can start again? So if you camp next to a zone you can afford to gamble all the time?
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#22 Apr 24 2006 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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LMAO I was just about to make a post exactly like this, but you beat me to it redvenomweb. :P

A few additions.

COR and BRD in party:
If you have a pty with a COR and a BRD, the buffs do stack. So you can have 2 rolls effective, and 2 songs with no penalties.


COR/BRD or BRD/COR:
If you sub COR for BRD or vice versa, there is a penalty from what I've heard. In other words you are limited to how many buffs you can use. Here are the possible combos with COR/BRD, BRD/COR
- 1 Roll and 1 Song
- 2 Roll and No Songs
- No Rolls and 2 Songs

Outside of that you cannot add any additional buffs to yourself or the party. Now I have not tested this so this is not definative, but I wouldn't doubt if it was true.

Bust Penalties
Now from what I have experienced up to this point, the only penalty I see when you bust, is the fact that you cannot cast more than one buff at a time while the bust effect is active. I have not witnessed any negative penalties from the roll effect. When a bust is active, it is simply a "Bust Effect" it is not specific to the roll that was cast. But since I have not tested it with Chaos Roll so I can see some physical evidence of this (Drop in total ATT), I cannot say with absolute certanty that this is true or not. Others may have tested this and proved the negative penalties do exist, but I myself have not seen them. I will do some testing tonight and verify.

Edited, Mon Apr 24 09:47:58 2006 by DDragonace
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#23 Apr 24 2006 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Another thing worth mentioning about replacing rolls:

It seems that a stat increase roll will not override the Corsair's Roll.

Even if you roll something like Corsair's Roll first, then Ninja Roll, then want to replace the Corsair's Roll (say, from a previous battle), with a Chaos Roll, the Chaos Roll will override the Ninja Roll rather than the XP roll.

I think that the rolls are treated as different entities depending on what "Roll Group" they fit into.

You'll notice that the stat increase rolls all have the same lucky and unlucky numbers. They can override one another, but cannot override Corsair's Roll which has its own lucky numbers and is in a "Roll Group" of its own.
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#24 Apr 24 2006 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Another thing worth mentioning about replacing rolls:

It seems that a stat increase roll will not override the Corsair's Roll.

Even if you roll something like Corsair's Roll first, then Ninja Roll, then want to replace the Corsair's Roll (say, from a previous battle), with a Chaos Roll, the Chaos Roll will override the Ninja Roll rather than the XP roll.

I think that the rolls are treated as different entities depending on what "Roll Group" they fit into.

You'll notice that the stat increase rolls all have the same lucky and unlucky numbers. They can override one another, but cannot override Corsair's Roll which has its own lucky numbers and is in a "Roll Group" of its own.


Incorrect!!

When overwriting rolls, if 2 are already active, the next roll will overwrite the oldest active roll. I tested this out myself. There is not logical grouping of rolls, you cast a new roll, it will overwrite the oldest roll.
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#25 Apr 24 2006 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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DDragonace wrote:


Incorrect!!

When overwriting rolls, if 2 are already active, the next roll will overwrite the oldest active roll. I tested this out myself. There is not logical grouping of rolls, you cast a new roll, it will overwrite the oldest roll.


Hmm. Maybe I'm just completely crazy. I wasn't able to get a roll to overwrite Corsair's.
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#26 Apr 24 2006 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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w00t n00b question! You can't blame me though we are all COR n00bs!

Ok, now I played BRD to 36 and am familiar with Song distance for Ballad and Minuet, etc. Does dice roll work the same? I am only level 8 COR so I haven't PT'd yet but say at higher levels, mages want MP Att/Acc/etc roles and DDs want Crit and Acc. Can I split the rolls like I did as a BRD? For example roll when mob comes in for Acc and Crit and then run behind Mages and do MP stuff. Will the seperate groups get seperate roll buffs or is it PT wise no matter what distance?

I know that the 2 MP rolls would cancel out my own Melee buffs so I'd probably reverse it. Mage then Melee.
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#27 Apr 24 2006 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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It's the same as Bard distance. If you aren't exactly between your melees and the mage, you might miss someone if you're trying to hit all.

On the other hand, the sucky part is that you have that 1 minute recast, so you have to hit who you intend to hit, then wait for the recast before you can roll again.
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#28 May 22 2006 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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So if you bust then zone you can start again? So if you camp next to a zone you can afford to gamble all the time?


Yes and Yes.. Verified this last night in Yhoater Jungle. Got an Unlucky number on Healers Roll and told PT I would Bust it (Mages were almost out of MP). Put another Healers Roll up after bust and then zoned. Bust and Healer's Roll were both cleared from my stat bar. By the time I got back, healers were almost at full MP, puller was on his way back with another mob and Phantom Roll was ready again.


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#29 May 23 2006 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Updated the original post to correct some info on Unlucky Numbers and renewing rolls, as well as to add some hard numbers on roll results.
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#30 May 23 2006 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Even if you don't have a zone to play with, at times a bust is beneficial, like if you hit an unlucky number on a healer's roll and have no busts. 1 extra mp/tick isn't worth it so you should re-roll, and if you bust, you can come back and do it again. That's what I've been doing and it's seemed to work pretty well.

One thing I've noticed is people asking for Corsair's roll at the end of every fight. A lot of people don't understand how Corsair works yet, so please educate them if they ask for it, that it takes three minutes (four minutes at 40 onward) to rebuff the party from Corsair's roll, so unless you're chaining VT, it's really not worth it.
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#31 Jun 25 2006 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited original post to add Wizard's Roll data.
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#32 Aug 05 2006 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Updated the original post to include Chaos Roll % and Evoker's Roll returns. I'm also moving the Chaos Roll testing I did down here:

LV35 COR/RNG, 131 ATK
II = 5 = 3.8% increase
III = 5 = 3.8% increase
IV = 15 = 11.5% increase
V = 8 = 6.1% increase
VI = 9 = 6.9% increase
VII = 9 = 6.9% increase
VIII = 1 = 0.8% increase
IX = 10 = 7.6% increase
X = 12 = 9.2% increase
XI = 24 = 18.3% increase
Bust = -9 = 6.9% decrease

LV35 COR/RNG, 152 ATK
II = 6 = 3.9% increase
III = 6 = 3.9% increase
IV = 17 = 11.2% increase
V = 9 = 5.9% increase
VI = 10 = 6.6% increase
VII = 10 = 6.6% increase
VIII = 1 = 0.7% increase
IX = 12 = 7.9% increase
X = 14 = 9.2% increase
XI = 27 = 17.8% increase
Bust = -10 = 6.6% decrease

35COR/WAR (133 ATK)
I = 5
II = 5
III = 5
IV = 15
V = 8
VI = 9
VII = 9
VIII = 1
IX = 10
X = 12
XI = 24
Bust = -9

35COR/WAR with Berserk (166 ATK)
I = 5
II = 5
III = 5
IV = 15
V = 8
VI = 9
VII = 9
VIII = 1
IX = 11 (!)
X = 12
XI = 24
Bust = -9

37COR/RNG (138 ATK) partied with 69WAR/NIN (289 ATK)
I = 5 (3.6% increase) / 6 (2.1% increase)
II = 5 (3.6% increase) / 6 (2.1% increase)
III = 5 (3.6% increase) / 6 (2.1% increase)
IV = 16 (11.6% increase) / 19 (6.6% increase)
V = 8 (5.8% increase) / 10 (3.5% increase)
VI = 9 (6.5% increase) / 11 (3.8% increase)
VII = 9 (6.5% increase) / 11 (3.8% increase)
VIII = 1 (0.7% increase) / 2 (0.7% increase)
IX = 11 (8.0% increase) / 13 (4.5% increase)
X = 12 (8.7% increase) / 14 (4.8% increase)
XI = 25 (18.1% increase) / 29 (10.0% increase)
Bust = -9 (6.5% decrease) / 0

edit: Also adding Arek's Healer's Roll testing down here, as I don't have a link to the original thread:

Arek from Remora has provided the following data on Healer's Roll (as a 34COR/13RDM):
Total Roll  1st tick   2nd tick   3rd tick   4th tick   Effect 
 No Roll       12         25         39         54       -- 
  I            13         27         42         58      hMP +1	 
  II           13         27         42         58      hMP +1 
  III          19         39         60         82      hMP +7 
  IV           14         29         45         62      hMP +2 
  V            14         29         45         62      hMP +2 
  VI           15         31         48         66      hMP +3 
  VII          13         27         42         58      hMP +1 
  VIII         16         33         51         70      hMP +4 
  IX           16         33         51         70      hMP +4 
  X            17         35         54         74      hMP +5 
  XI           21         43         66        >88*     hMP +9 
 BUST           9         19         30         42      hMP -3


Edited, May 3rd 2007 3:03pm by redvenomweb
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#33 Aug 09 2006 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Added Corsair's Roll data and a link to Kylen's roll calculator spreadsheet.
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#34 Jan 05 2007 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Updated with fixed Wizard's Roll data.
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#35 Apr 05 2007 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17851&start=60

Mojo posted some preliminary data about Magus Roll in Brenner. Keep in mind that his data set is incomplete, and that some abilities are adjusted for PvP, but at least it's a start.

NIN/WAR casting elemental Ni spell on a COR/WAR (no BLU in party)

BaseDamage from a Ni spell = 85 in this scenario.

(BaseDamage)*100/(100+MDB)=Damage
 
Roll  Damage  MBD 
----------------- 
1     81      +5 
2     77      +10 (lucky) 
3     ?       +? 
4     ?       +? 
5     79      +8 
6     84      +1 (unlucky) 
7     78      +9 
8     ?       +? 
9     ?       +? 
10    78      +9 
11    71      +20 

Keep in mind that since his base damage was low, it's difficult to accurately state the MDB because of rounding. If anything, it looks similar to how MAB works out, and probably will end up being the same values. More testing on actual mobs with higher-damage spells will be needed.

Edited, Apr 5th 2007 3:44pm by nekio
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#36 Apr 05 2007 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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I saw that data too. It's a good start, but I wouldn't go adding that data to any stickies yet. For one thing, magic defense might work completely differently in Brenner/Ballista than it does in other areas. Also, Mojo is assuming that Magus Roll gives MDB, but the description of the roll says "enhance Magic Defense". MDB (i.e. the WHM/RDM job trait) and Magic Defense (i.e. Shell) are two completely different things and are calculated in different ways.

If anyone has the time, grab a level 75 friend, sub /WHM, and head to Aydeewa to do some tests on worms there. Let the worm nuke your friend w/o Magus Roll and with it, and record the damage they take each time. Also record the gear they're wearing, how much INT they have, and whether they're playing or subbing a mage job with inherent MDB job trait. If I can convince the one 75 BLU in my shell to spend an hour doing this with me, I'll try to get some data for Magus Roll with BLU.
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#37 May 03 2007 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Newly reorganized with piping hot data! Note the handy averages for each roll.
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#38 May 04 2007 at 4:49 AM Rating: Good
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Nvm, withdrawn.

Edited, May 4th 2007 6:35am by Filian
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#39 Nov 05 2007 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Old (pre-update) roll data moved here:

THIS DATA IS NO LONGER VALID!

Corsair's Roll - EXP Bonus (with COR):
I    = +7% EXP 
II   = +7% EXP 
III  = +7% EXP 
IV   = +7% EXP 
V    = +16% EXP 
VI   = +9% EXP 
VII  = +9% EXP 
VIII = +12% EXP 
IX   = +7% EXP 
X    = +14% EXP 
XI   = +24% EXP 
Avg. = +12.3% EXP


Hunter's Roll - +ACC/RACC (without RNG/with RNG):
I    = +3/8 
II   = +3/8 
III  = +4/9 
IV   = +10/15 
V    = +5/10 
VI   = +5/10 
VII  = +6/11 
VIII = +1/6 
IX   = +8/13 
X    = +9/14 
XI   = +18/23 
Avg. = +8.6/12.8


Chaos Roll - +ATK/RATK (without DRK/with DRK):
I    = +4%/11% 
II   = +4%/11% 
III  = +4%/11% 
IV   = +12%/18 
V    = +6%/12% 
VI   = +7%/13% 
VII  = +7%/13% 
VIII = +1%/7% 
IX   = +8%/15% 
X    = +10%/16% 
XI   = +18%/25% 
Avg. = +9.3%/14.7%


Healer's Roll - +hMP (without WHM/with WHM):
I    = +1/4 
II   = +1/4 
III  = +7/10 
IV   = +2/5 
V    = +2/5 
VI   = +3/6 
VII  = +1/4 
VIII = +4/7 
IX   = +4/7 
X    = +5/8 
XI   = +9/12 
Avg. = +5.0/7.7


Samurai Roll - Store TP (without SAM/with SAM):
I    = +3/8 
II   = +10/15 
III  = +4/9 
IV   = +4/9 
V    = +5/10 
VI   = +1/6 
VII  = +6/11 
VIII = +7/12 
IX   = +8/13 
X    = +9/14 
XI   = +18/23 
Avg. = +8.7/13.3


Evoker's Roll - Refresh (without SMN/with SMN):
I    = +1/2 
II   = +1/2 
III  = +1/2 
IV   = +1/2 
V    = +3/4 
VI   = +1/2 
VII  = +1/2 
VIII = +2/3 
IX   = +1/2 
X    = +2/3 
XI   = +4/5 
Avg. = +2.1/3.0


Rogue's Roll - crit rate + x (without THF/with THF):
I    = +2%/8% 
II   = +2%/8% 
III  = +3%/9% 
IV   = +4%/10% 
V    = +12%/18% 
VI   = +5%/11% 
VII  = +6%/12% 
VIII = +6%/12% 
IX   = +1%/7% 
X    = +8%/14% 
XI   = +18%/24% 
Avg. = +8.1%/13.4%


Fighter's Roll - Double Attack + x (without WAR/with WAR):
I    = +2%/8% 
II   = +2%/8% 
III  = +3%/9% 
IV   = +4%/10% 
V    = +12%/18% 
VI   = +5%/11% 
VII  = +6%/12% 
VIII = +7%/13% 
IX   = +1%/7% 
X    = +9%/15% 
XI   = +18%/24% 
Avg. = +8.5%/13.6%


Wizard's Roll - Magic Attack Bonus (without BLM/with BLM):
I    = +2/6 
II   = +2/6 
III  = +3/7 
IV   = +3/7 
V    = +9/13 
VI   = +4/8 
VII  = +5/9 
VIII = +5/9 
IX   = +1/5 
X    = +6/10 
XI   = +12/16 
Avg. = +6.2/9.7


Credit for the above data should go to the following:
Chaos Roll- myself, Ilean (Ifrit)
Wizard's Roll- Archain (Valefor), Zorak (Shiva)
Healer's Roll- Arek (Remora)
Corsair's Roll- kylen (Caitsith)
Samurai Roll- Valyana (Ramuh)
Hunter's Roll, Rogue's Roll, Fighter's Roll- translated by Dyvid (Pandemonium)
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#40 Nov 07 2007 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Hunters roll 45 acc without RNG? Isn't that a bit too extreme to be true? Isn't it like a free 9 snipers rings all over your face.
#41 Nov 07 2007 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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It may be level-limited, but I beleive those numbers, because Hunter's is seriously potent now. In my COR's static, we had a high-30's DRK with underlevelled weapons hitting 80% acc with kabobs on capped-XP ITs. The DRG was slamming the acc cap by using sushi. Even my melee acc was 80%, despite wearing -acc rings and only having Hunter's about 60-70% of the time. RACC was 93%.
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#42 Mar 12 2008 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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Updated with roll data from JP COR site, as well as Dancer's Roll.
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#43 Dec 31 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe the information for Dancer's Roll is incorrect. According to Wiki and results I have seen Lucky is 3 and Unlucky is 7.
#44 Dec 31 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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You're right; the top of the FAQ didn't have the correct Lucky/Unlucky numbers for Dancer's or Scholar's.
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#45 May 06 2009 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:

It is important to note that there is a level-based penalty on Chaos Roll or Wizard's Roll when the COR is lower-level than the target:
corLVL / targetLVL x bonus total

Other rolls may also be affected by this level penalty (though Evoker's definitely is not).


I'm not sure if this has been brought up but tonight i was helping my 75Blm friend farm organs in sea, and I decided to go as 41Cor to give him Evokers and Healers rolls. We noticed though that he wasn't getting the full refresh amount.

If i rolled a 5 I would get 3 per tic, while he would only get 2. It was the same for every roll, he would always get 1 mp per tic less than what I was getting, so it seems there is a level penalty for Evokers. I'm not sure what level I would have to be for him to get full strength Evokers rolls though. Anyone have this info, or maybe there's something I'm overlooking that would cause him to get less per tic?
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