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Chant Du Cygne BuildFollow

#1 May 26 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I was reading over on the PLD forums for an ideal CdC build, but as I play BLU more frequently than PLD I was wondering peoples' insight into an ideal build for BLU. I don't fully understand SC modifiers and so, based on the fact that DEX is primary modifier on CdC should I be stocking up on DEX for my WS?

Thanks in advance, sorry if this has been posted elsewhere.
#2 May 27 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty much, though crit hit rate/damage should come first (read: atmas). I use RR/MM/GH, some people like using Apoc for Triple Attack.

Gear wise, you're looking at:
 
Almace / DAorOA2-4 Khanda / / Thunder Sachet 
Aias or MKE hat / SnowGorget / DEX / DEX 
Loki's / Alcides+1 / DEX / DEX 
Nifty or Resil+1 / Warwolf or Snow / Mavi+2 / Lithe 


There's a few debatable pieces, some people use DEX+Eponas for rings, some people use different feet, etc
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#3 May 27 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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So can Double Attack and Triple Attack proc on CdC hits then? Sorry, really want to unravel this WS.

Thanks!
#4 May 27 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Like all multi-hit weaponskills, DA can occur on any one of the multiple hits AND the off-hand hit. TA can only occur on the first hit and the offhand hit (not the 2nd and 3rd hits of CDC in this example). However, these extra attacks are only treated as normal hits (no DEX benefits or fTP bonus).

The main reason why DA/TA is included in CDC builds is to make Almace DA/TA when Aftermath is up (more times Almace hits, more chance of proc, more damage you do)

EDIT:
Might as well pad out extra info about Almace/CDC:
- Aftermath proc is ~45%
- Cannot proc on weaponskills or any hits that are not Almace.
- Does not affect blue magic.
- SCs with Benthic for Darkness or Goblin for Fusion. Damage kinda meh on SC.
- 100%TP=30sec, 200%TP=45sec, 300%TP=60sec durations for ODD. 30sec is enough for me to build to 100%TP again (and cast 1 quick spell) comfortably using OA2-4 offhand.
- ODD can proc on criticals for very nice damage.
- CDC will consistently outperform Vorpal in or out of abyssea, looking at 1k-2k outside and 1.5k-4k inside depending on monster/gear. It will consistently outperform non CA/Effluxed Quad Con, regardless of mob type (provided mob isn't weak to pierce). As a result, I tend to prioritise using CDC over spell spam (though this is highly dependant on what I'm doing!)

Edited, May 27th 2011 10:02pm by kegsay
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#5 May 29 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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Unless attack capped Atheling Tumbler's Brutal/Aesir (unless you have a Jupiter's Pearl) Alcide's+1 feet and Cuch Belt should be the best options for the slots. 2-4 khanda can't be recommended for anything but sanguine spam I suppose? The elemental shamshirs are also a fair option (dex clear winner if acc is an issue, Str can beat DA depending on attack).

Edited, May 29th 2011 10:18pm by Neisan
#6 May 30 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Add attacks from DA / TA most certainly get WSC added to them, they just don't get fTP (damage type) or any cRatio bonus's added. Used to see this all the time on SAM, whiff the first hit on gekko and still get ~400 ish damage on a DA proc, a Hagun won't be hitting for 400 ever on a regular hit.

My only caution is that you watch your attack on CDC. Like most of the emp WS's there is no cRatio bonus, so whatever attack you have in your WS macro is what you'll be hitting the monster with. And seeing as any job that can use CDC would be a "low attack" job (RDM / BLU / PLD) I would highly recommend using +atk in spots that don't have a fck ton of +DEX. And before anyone makes a snide comment, monsters that are 90+ are rocking 350~400+ defense now. It takes approx 2x attack the monster has defense to cap out. Its always a good idea to get in the ball part of 700~800 attack on anything lv 95 or higher.
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Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#7 May 30 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Add attacks from DA / TA most certainly get WSC added to them, they just don't get fTP (damage type) or any cRatio bonus's added. Used to see this all the time on SAM, whiff the first hit on gekko and still get ~400 ish damage on a DA proc, a Hagun won't be hitting for 400 ever on a regular hit.

My only caution is that you watch your attack on CDC. Like most of the emp WS's there is no cRatio bonus, so whatever attack you have in your WS macro is what you'll be hitting the monster with. And seeing as any job that can use CDC would be a "low attack" job (RDM / BLU / PLD) I would highly recommend using +atk in spots that don't have a fck ton of +DEX. And before anyone makes a snide comment, monsters that are 90+ are rocking 350~400+ defense now. It takes approx 2x attack the monster has defense to cap out. Its always a good idea to get in the ball part of 700~800 attack on anything lv 95 or higher.


Rough rule of thumb (2.5att = 1 dex) during CDC. Also 1.5 STR = 1 DEX (if fSTR not capped) on CDC.

****Used lvl 95 mob with 400 def and eating red curry outside abyssea for purposes of calculations*****
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#8 May 30 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd go with Bison steak instead but thats the general idea. What your base attack is it has alot to do with it. If your at less then 600 you might want to be stacking a bit more attack then if your at 700+.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#9 May 31 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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kegsay wrote:
Gear wise, you're looking at:
 
Almace / DAorOA2-4 Khanda / / Thunder Sachet 
Aias or MKE hat / SnowGorget / DEX / DEX 
Loki's / Alcides+1 / DEX / DEX 
Nifty or Resil+1 / Warwolf or Snow / Mavi+2 / Lithe 



I noticed you had Snow Gorget listed, when I was checking out the gorgets on wiki I noticed it lists CDC for Light Gorget but not Snow. I'm wondering is it effected by both? And if so, would it make a difference which was used?

For Reference:Snow Gorget Light Gorget


Edited, May 31st 2011 6:31pm by Zaeon
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#10 Jun 01 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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The elemental gorgets / belts are based on the weapon skills SC attributes. There are currently 12 standard attributes and two special ones. Each gorget / belt is aligned with one of the standard attributes.

L1 Standard
Compression: Shadow: Dark
Transfixion: Light: Light
Scission: Soil: Earth
Reverberation: Aqua: Water
Detonation: Breeze: Wind
Liquifaction: Flame: Fire
Induration: Snow: Ice
Impaction: Thunder: Thunder

L2 Standard
Gravitation: Shadow / Soil: Dark / Earth
Distortion: Aqua / Snow: Water / Ice
Fragmentation: Breeze / Thunder: Wind / Thunder
Fusion: Light / Flame: Light / Fire

L3 Special
Darkness: none : Dark / Earth / Water / Ice
Light: none : Light / Wind / Fire / Thunder

Weapon Skills can have up to three of the above properties with them being in the order of precedence A > B > C

Chant Du Cygne: (two gorgets)
A: L3 Special Light: none
B: L2 Standard Distortion: Aqua / Snow

vs something like

Death Blossom: (four gorgets)
A: L2 Standard Fragmentation: Wind / Thunder
B: L2 Standard Distortion: Aqua / Snow

And

Aeolian Edge: (three gorgets)
A: L1 Standard Impaction: Thunder
B: L1 Standard Scission: Soil
C: L1 Standard Detonation: Breeze

For some reason SE decided that the L3 Special properties would not be aligned with any gorgets and remember L3 Special Light is not the same as L1 Standard Transfixion, nor L3 Special Darkness with L1 Standard Compression.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#11 Jun 05 2011 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Thanks for all the info, I have invested in some of the gear recommended here.

So from what I am reading then, would a Snow Gorget be a good investment? I am currently using Fort Torque for lack of a better option (well, was using it to maintain ACC on Vorpal Blade etc.) Thanks again in advance.
#12 Jun 05 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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2,890 posts
Yes for almost every WS the gorgets / belts are the best option, there do exist some situations where another item might be better but that's on a case by case basis.

Snow gorget is useful because it covers all the distortion and induration WS's which happen to be many good WS's. I have Snow / Soil / Thunder and Light which covers each of the major WS's and most of the minor ones.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#13 Jun 05 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Sorry if I seem dense, though I need some clarification. So even if I am not SC'ing with Chant du Cygne, Snow Gorget is preferable? Often I Self-SC Fusion with Goblin Rush. Is this still the best option? Again, thanks in advance.

Edit: I upgraded my gear as I asked for suggestions earlier and have noticed CdC is more reliable now - Hovers in the 3k range in Abyssea. Highest single hit I have seen was 4.3k, though I did a self-SC for Fusion once which did around 8k which I was pretty happy with :)
#14 Jun 06 2011 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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354 posts
Quote:
For some reason SE decided that the L3 Special properties would not be aligned with any gorgets and remember L3 Special Light is not the same as L1 Standard Transfixion, nor L3 Special Darkness with L1 Standard Compression.


Wiki mentions light gorget has the properties of Light and even has Chant du Cygne listed. Is this incorrect? Also Light belt is not shown on wiki to have that L3 light property. I would have thought both would be the same.

The Light and Shadow gorgets getting the L3 property made sense to me back in the day since they requred an extra ufo organ. Actually I just checked, Shadow gorget does not display, Darkness.

If light gorget does not have Light property I would need to get a new gorget for when I finish my Almace in the future.
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#15 Jun 06 2011 at 4:35 AM Rating: Good
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Wiki is EXTREMELY outdated right now, don't trust anything on it.

"Light" skill chain does not equal "Light" Gorget nor "Light" elemental property. Blame it on mis-translation.

The "Light" element SC is known as Transfixion, the "Dark" element SC is known as Compression. The gorgets / belts work off the WS's SC attributes.

The Fusion SC has properties of both Transfixion (Light) and Liquefaction (Fire), thus anything with a SC property of Fusion would inherit the properties of both Transfixion and Liquefaction. Gravitation SC has properties of both Compression (Dark) and Scission (Earth), so anything with those properties will also work with Gravitation.

The L3's are different, "Light" is actually Fusion (Transfixion / Liquefaction)+ Fragmentation (Detonation / Impaction) this it attacks with four element (Light / Fire / Wind / Thunder). This ~should~ make it compatible with four different gorgets, except SE made the L3 SC's unique. They don't inherit any of the SC attributes, they have their own special attribute.

Basically the skillchain called "Light" is not Fusion nor Transfixion thus it doesn't gain the properties of the Light gorget / belt.

CDC is Light / Distortion for attributes. Distortion has properties of Reverberation (Water) and Induration (Ice) so its effected by both Aqua and Snow gorgets.

And no the gorgets are not just for SC's, any WS with the appropriate attributes will get the +0.1 fTP and +10 ws.accuracy. This is one of the few ways to increase fTP and thus is usually one of the best / better options for each WS.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#16 Jul 05 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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1,755 posts
Interesting people on BG reporting Light Gorget as working on these weapons I have both light and snow so will test as soon as I can to be sure. Seeing 5k damage on a Dusk Lizard in abyssea almost made me fall out my chair lol. Trying different atmas and setups I did from 1.2k - 5.2k and steady 2.5k - 3K mostly switching up gear and atmas currently favoring RR/Omnipotent/Apoc but peeps saying A/O which I haven't tried but that be a awful lot of triple attack RR/APOC/A/O. Ok now I see apoc/gh/rr damn more to test more to test lol...

Anyone have a new recommended spell load for CDC? Guess need to add more attack and make use of Triumphant Roar more.

I feel like cdc is gonna change the hell out of my playstyle aftermath is no joke and man even thinking subbing sam to do some cdc - cdc light action lol.

Edited, Jul 5th 2011 10:32am by kenshynOnShiva

Edited, Jul 5th 2011 2:15pm by kenshynOnShiva

Here's testing of Namas arrow relic Light ws with Light Gorget/Belt:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90723-Relic-Augments?p=4415008&viewfull=1#post4415008


Bling;4415008 wrote:
I finished bow tonight. I did some before and after tests, not sure how useful any of it is but thought it might help figure out where the 25% boost is. All shots done @5 yalms or feet or w/e it is to avoid true shot bonus except for the ones @10 yalms. True shot is 7% with traits and +2 legs. Anwig is str/ws acc and agi/ws damage (subbed in 4str/agi when not wearing).

85 Yoichi, antlion arrow, 114 str, 115 agi:
base - 2127
gorget - 2202
gorget and belt - 2277
gorget, belt, anwig - 2322
gorget, belt, anwig, @10 yalms - 2484

90 Yoichi, antlion arrow, same stats:
base - 2771
gorget - 2872
gorget and belt - 2970
gorget, belt, anwig - 3028
gorget, belt, anwig, @ 10 yalms - 3240

Looks like a straight increase across the board. Does that mean it's a separate term?




Edited, Jul 5th 2011 3:13pm by kenshynOnShiva
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#17 Jul 11 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Sorry for the late reply. I'm highly suspicious of those numbers, it didn't list how many of each and their too "clean". Damage is inherently random in this game, even on a level 0 bunny you will still get variance. It's why we want a large posted data set, so we can map out what is doing what. Plus nothing in that post mentions light gorget / belt, only that a gorget / belt was used. So unless there is most info in that mammoth 120+ post thread then I'd take it all with a grain of salt. Testing I've done with some of my LS SAM's has shown that neither Kaiten nor Fudo got bonus's from Light Gorget / Belt, neither did CDC but that one is much harder to check on.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#18 Jul 11 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Archery tho is pretty stable to test with imho its pretty consistent if you sit at fixed range...

CDC damage is fing all over the place lol....

Edited, Jul 11th 2011 2:59pm by kenshynOnShiva
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#19 Jul 11 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Default
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#20 Jul 11 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Entirely possible that it's on a case by case basis. I say that because T3 "Light" isn't "Light Element", its Fire / Wind / Thunder / Light element. And thus if "Light Gorget" worked then so would Flame / Breeze / Thunder gorgets. Same for Darkness, as Soil / Aqua / Snow / Shadow gorgets would work for all of those. For something like CDC, you would have Flame / Breeze / Thunder / Light / Aqua / Snow gorgets working, which has been demonstrated not to be the case.

Then again SE could of Ninja'd something in that made L3 "Light" have the SC affinity of Transfixion and L3 "Dark" have Compression.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#21 Jul 12 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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1,755 posts
Even SE should get LIGHT Gorget should effect LIGHT property on a WS lmao. I have a few gorgets and when I get a chance will test them but wasn't seeing a change from Snow/Light on CDC but like I said damage on CDC can be all over the place.
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#22 Jul 12 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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kenshynOnShiva wrote:
Even SE should get LIGHT Gorget should effect LIGHT property on a WS lmao. I have a few gorgets and when I get a chance will test them but wasn't seeing a change from Snow/Light on CDC but like I said damage on CDC can be all over the place.


It's not "Light" it's Transfixion, which deals light elemental damage. The SC you call "Light" isn't light either, its a mistranslation nor does it deal exclusively light elemental damage. The "Light" that your talking about is actually Fusion / Fragmentation mixed which in turn is Liquifaction / Transfixion / Detonation / Impaction mixed. The big "Light" SC deals Fire / Light / Wind / Thunder damage and will use the element the monster has the least resistance to. You can demonstrate this by using MB's. Only light element will MB on Transfixion, yet all four elements will MB on the big Light SC.

So what you have is a gorget, a level 1 skillchain, a level 2 skillchain and one of the elemental damage types all being mixed up.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#23 Jul 13 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
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I think your getting stuck on it dude I know what light is made from was making a joke that even SE could get LIGHT correct its the most expensive gorget to make as well. Seems many has it affecting the light ws properties except your testing. So lets see some actual test data and the test setup like the post above. I have a few gorgets and belts and the ws and will be doing the tests over but archery for sure has less variability.

For now I use the light gorget in my setup seems to be working I don't see a difference in using my snow one but thats just eyeballing it with the wild swings of CDC fun.



Edited, Jul 13th 2011 10:09am by kenshynOnShiva
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#24 Jul 13 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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You won't notice a 0.1 fTP different in a WS without lots of tests. And the last extensive testing ever done was back in 07 on the Relics. The idea was that you can just get Shadow + Light gorget and be set for every single relic WS, which was proven wrong.

Shortly after Emp weapons were released, the first few sets of people messed around and again it was the same. Now between then and now, something might of changed and it would be a good idea for people to check again on level 0 bunny's, at least 100 WS's for each set should nail it down.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
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