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#1 Nov 19 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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You're an experienced player returning after a number of years, with the intention of running as a BLU main. You've researched fairly heavily, but are finding inconclusive information regarding BLU in the new, post-75 world, particularly about subjobs.

My question is this: If you're on a brand new character, which path would you take, to optimize your play time? (i.e., which subs are proving most valuable ;) )

My time is limited these days, and I would hate to have spent the effort leveling a sub that proved to be less than useful.
#2 Nov 20 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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/nin is my general go to sub if im not sure whats going on, doing nm's, or in a pick up.

/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up

/sch is popular but i havent tried it much. i did do 85blu/30sch with light arts up and do 700 plenilune embrace without a light staff. i imagine i could probably push it to 800-900 in abyssea.

other than that, i think /thf still has uses. /dnc....
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6/75 orthrus claws
#3 Nov 20 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
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this is how i roll.











guess someone had to do it, sorry >.>

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 4:15am by DarkBiBi
#4 Nov 20 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks figster! 42½ times more useful than a link to a video that contains content that is not available in my country. ;)

Helps me plan out my order of progression.
#5 Nov 20 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Default
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IMO /rdm in abyessa is useless. If your going to sub a mage, /sch.

/RDM gives you refresh, so does battery charge, they dont stack. Rdm can dispil, so can /sch.
/rdm lacks reraise
/rdm gets a C rating 129-159 skill. /sch 220-280.

Why is skill important? Try landing a dispell with 120 vs 220. Or as noted above healing affects your blumagic spells on top of blu magic.

Drain, aspir, at a B+ or higher rating. You can also GA these spells while solo. No rdm can do that. This helps when doing mog trials. Drain for 1k+ will be great

/rdm has hase, so does blu.

JA Conserve MP 3 at 90 for sch.

If you want to tank on blu, Ereasga

even Phantax is worthless as it is skill related. 120 skill, i'm sorry it won't help you much. We get Magic barrie 100% protection on mp spells at us. Sch gets regan 2 as well.

And if in abyessa you can always get a +5-10 refresh ATMA. So I wouldnt bother. Some people have problems with breath or nukes landing in abyessa. Well /sch give syou access to many weather spells, equip a sea obi and now you can get better nukes.

/nin is ok. I say /thf for V dive is great and cannoncall.

/drk is nice for attack bonus JA 3 @ 90 and LR SE what stack with our spells. This is more for a KS 30 or a Abyessa NM zerg suggesion. At 90 we get absorb TP and all other absorb spells. These in turn can help us buff our spells. We get same rating as a /rdm would just different spells.

People thought rdm was going to own for blu. But SE gave us all the spells we would of got by subbing it and we are not gimped witha C rating due to subjob.


Edited, Nov 20th 2010 2:53pm by kimjongil76
#6 Nov 20 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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kimjongil76 wrote:
IMO /rdm in abyessa is useless. If your going to sub a mage, /sch.

/RDM gives you refresh, so does battery charge, they dont stack. Rdm can dispil, so can /sch.
/rdm lacks reraise
/rdm gets a C rating 129-159 skill. /sch 220-280.

Why is skill important? Try landing a dispell with 120 vs 220. Or as noted above healing affects your blumagic spells on top of blu magic.

Drain, aspir, at a B+ or higher rating. You can also GA these spells while solo. No rdm can do that. This helps when doing mog trials. Drain for 1k+ will be great

/rdm has hase, so does blu.

JA Conserve MP 3 at 90 for sch.

If you want to tank on blu, Ereasga

even Phantax is worthless as it is skill related. 120 skill, i'm sorry it won't help you much. We get Magic barrie 100% protection on mp spells at us. Sch gets regan 2 as well.

And if in abyessa you can always get a +5-10 refresh ATMA. So I wouldnt bother. Some people have problems with breath or nukes landing in abyessa. Well /sch give syou access to many weather spells, equip a sea obi and now you can get better nukes.


did i say i use for dispel? did i say i use it for regen? do i care if sch gets regen 2(but so does blu so im confused)? i had assumed that when i said "/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back" i figured everyone would have collectively said "convert. he's using it for convert to get a full mp bar when he runs out and cant make it go back up fast enough."
do i have a 5mp/tic atma? yes. do i have a 10mp/tic atma? yes. do i have refresh 2 or battery charge on? most likely. do i use ether's and elixers as fast as the come from chests? yes. do i still run out of mp? sometimes. so would convert be good to use? absolutely. so instead of saying
kimjongil76 wrote:
blah blah blah, negative negative negative

write something constructive.
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99war 99mnk 96whm 99blm 90rdm 99thf 85pld 99bst 99brd 99drg
99blu 99pup 60sch 99dnc 99nin 99sam
50/50 glavoid shells
50/50 itz scales
6/75 orthrus claws
#7 Nov 20 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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I usually go /nin and full out DD wading into the middle of things.
I generally need /nin because... I pull hate, alot... and it helps to tank :D (****, I even put cocoon back in the mix!)

Blu really is one of those jobs that can be molded to your play style.

Like nukes? Gear more magey and have fun with breath - I've seen some blu's do some amazing things. At this point, /rdm or /sch are your friends

Want to stand back, SATACAEFF and see some huge single numbers? /thf is still your best bet.

Want to wade in there, two swords hacking, popping off 2k+SCC's for the BLM's to MB (and get themselves killed?) - /nin is your friend. Because, lets face it, if they don't MB, there's a mob looking at you, and he's not happy.

With my standard spell set, I generally have fun being on the front lines, hacking away, debuffing a bit (Flash, stun, poison... think I have 1 or 2 others in there), helping to cure if the WHM is overwhelmed, and seeing some great, big numbers from SSC's.

The best part is, you can change what your job does a the flip of a sub-job and re-gearing.
Not to helpful... but some options at least.
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#8 Nov 20 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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I just recently hit 85 but I've learned a good amount on this forum(amazing posters), in game from friends, and as playing it.

/nin is your main sub. It's essential no matter what you end up doing.

/rdm is "neat"(I am doing it for enspells and phalanx while while nerfed, are FUN)

/sch I know nothing about, which means "sh*t is situational" and you don't need it.

/dnc is fun for solo, I have lived MANY times by healing via TP rather than MP and killed an add or two with single digit MP remaining that as any other sub I'd not have had. However, Blu are squishy. We have AWFUL evasion skill and TERRIBLE defense without specific buffs/builds. Use for solo'ing EP or the like for fun.

All said and done, /nin is the only sub you need.
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#9 Nov 20 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Lots of good information. Thank you, gentlemen! This should help me get off to a good start.
#10 Nov 20 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I liked the long tirade about /RDM being useless in Abyssea while completely ignoring the one thing you'd probably sub it for.
#11 Nov 20 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dinishte wrote:
/sch I know nothing about, which means "sh*t is situational" and you don't need it.


Just because it's situational and you know nothing about it does not mean it's "not needed."

Reraise, useable Drain/Aspir, better curing spells (yes, even the Blue magic spells get buffed by /SCH), a dispel you don't have to use set points for, more sleeps (again, no points set for them), access to some nukes (with native gear to make it work ok... even if it isn't wonderful), Sublimation, Regen2, situational use for Desert Boots and Sandstorm... /SCH adds a lot to BLU. Unfortunately, it doesn't add a lot of defensive capability and Accession doesn't work with BLU spells. Given some of our more potent defensive abilities, though, this can be overlooked. It just doesn't add much on offense, either, specifically, and so it isn't used a ton. I used to use it in Campaign at 75 and tank 3-4 mobs at once - sleeping any if I got in over my head just a little too much. I could have handled more, but I hated being that guy holding up the entire event - I'd drag my 3-4 just out of sight of the tower sot he NPCs wouldn't kill them then would have at it. If campaign were anything like Bastion, I'd probably still be doing it to this day.

If I didn't end up tanking 90% of the time I was on BLU, I'd consider playing around with /SCH some more.
#12 Nov 20 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Default
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Well, I am glad others do see my point.

And as for convert, you assume you have HP, and when you convert you cure yourself. As a Galka, even if I am fulll HP, I have to spend 200+ MP on a convert to cure myself. So it is not effecient. Subligation stacks with metalic body. So as MP stores you get MP back and you can store it while get your +5 refresh from ATMAs.

/sch saying sch is for situations due to you not knowing is a sign of ignorence. That be the same as a student telling a teacher basic math is useless as I don't know and it wont help me get a job. Learn about something before you critize it.

I deont even see /rdms. Say a few upon update but after that it was mostly nin and a few /schs. As our friend pointed out, we get sandstorm. The next update we get rainstorm. After that wind and fire. These spells can be placed on us.

Acrid stream is water based, it would enhance our magic accuracy. In addition you can put on the sea obi and do even more dmg. The same would go for spells like firespit, blazing bond, and a few other spells. The part most people overlook though is the spell points saved by sch.

an AoE cure 3, erease, is nice, as well as paralizna, poisena and so on.

Conserve MP JA 3 saves 4 points
Dispil regardless if you use, saves 2-3
Even having sleep 1 spell that can land and AoE saves points of sorpethic. 4

My healing skill on blu/sch is 300 my drk is 320. Those are A ratings, so I wouldnt want to give myself below 200 for subbing rdm what doesn't save me on points and gives me less spells to work with. But again it is just my expereince and opinion.

When you go get a mog sword and have to kill 100+ birds. It sure is nice to gather together 20+ and just aoe drain for 1800 recover and death of monsters. No healing spell inthe game can equal that or aoe aspir.
#13 Nov 21 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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fynlar wrote:
I liked the long tirade about /RDM being useless in Abyssea while completely ignoring the one thing you'd probably sub it for.


reading. no one does it.
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99blu 99pup 60sch 99dnc 99nin 99sam
50/50 glavoid shells
50/50 itz scales
6/75 orthrus claws
#14 Nov 21 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
figster wrote:
/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up


Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.
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#15 Nov 21 2010 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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BelenosSwiftWater wrote:
figster wrote:
/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up


Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


Not to mention, Battery Charge is Refresh. So.. yeah.


As for being "ignorant" for saying Sch is situational and therefor not needed, maybe you should read the OP a couple of times before jumping out of your chair over a comment.

Quote:
My time is limited these days


Reading comprehension ftw.

Focus on the IMPORTANT sub, /nin. /sch has use, stop trying to twist "situational" into "useless" because you fail. In an exp party, you sub Ninja. Period. There is no point subbing anything else now that parties are 18 people and pure DD's. Maybe if you wanna do an old group outside, healing matters. In Abyssea, there is no shortage of Whms, Rdms, and Schs who need to cap skills/merit/exp.

Please learn to read before you have a conniption over someone saying situational. If I said "worthless" sure, have at, but I didn't. Calm your hormones. He wants the best result for his time, ninja is obviously best.

*edit*

As for comparing leveling a situational sub to a student challenging a teacher, that is the dumbest thing I have read on this forum in years. Seriously? Comparing a sub that MAY be used occasionally vs a learning environment?
Perspective, it's a **** of a thing.

1: Anyone who argues they do not need math, is an idiot. There is no person on Earth who does not use math on a daily basis. Telling time is even math based, so really?

2: School is a process to teach you to learn. That is why we have "useless" subjects which would have ALMOST been better examples, such as History and Sciences. Just because you do not use them does not mean learning is worthless. Try teaching a a 40 year old who dropped out of H.S. thermonuclear reactor processes. Unless he is a savant, he won't get it because his brain is not attuned to learning. Teach the same thing to a grad student, at least they well get some of it.

Stupid example is stupid.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 4:58am by Dinishte
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#16 Nov 21 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


Agreed.

The additional forms of refresh that Abyssea has given to us (be it 5 or 10mp a tic) means that the % of damage that comes from spells has shifted upward; it does NOT mean that you should forget how integral MP management is to BLU as a job. The only benefit to /rdm these days is Convert. We have Refresh, we have Fast Cast, we have dispel (and have had it since inception, I'm not sure why that came up).

What we don't have, is a native enhancing magic skill, so En-spells are lack luster.

I would posit that if you're geared the way you ought to be, any edge RDM would grant you from a few hundred MP every 10 minutes, is lost by having to blow the MP to cure yourself from the hate you ought to have from somehow managing to blow that much MP to need convert in the first place.

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#17 Nov 21 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Best path for Blu main.

Start mnk*, level mnk to 20. Unlock sub job and get choco liscense started.

Head back to your starting city. Level as war/mnk** up to at least 30.

Unlock Ninja and Blu advanced jobs.

Blu can be done solo. Nin needs a party at 30 or 1 high level person to kill leeches.

With ninja unlocked ( and your war leveled to 30+), you can nin/war up to 49 and that sub is done.

Now you can finally start Blu and go blu/nin all the way to 99.

*Mnk is the easiest job to get 1-20 in my experience. Its much faster than thf or war in those levels.
** Without having advanced jobs unlocked. War/mnk is better to try and get to 30 for advanced quests. Real key nowadays is get to Qufim at 20 and stay until 30 there.

For Blu honestly - /nin is overall most used sub. Quadratic Cont. has replaced Cannonball. and becasue of that spell Blus take tremendous hate. I now prefer Blu over Sam in a lot of abyssea stuff just because they can drop 1100-2000 Quads at nearly any time. with /nin they tank most stuff and with 2+ can trade hate just fine.

The ones that solo still /nin. I have one thats tried /rdm and while having self refresh and convert. He falls way behind the /nin ones because spends more time/mp having to self cure.

/dnc just doenst heal enough hp/mp if the mob is hitting you consistently to be useful. Plowing through Easy stuff in the teens is way different than trying to kill EP at 75+.

#18 Nov 21 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


I sport 2x refresh atmas on BLU, but it's not enough to let me continuously spam. Other than a Chainspelling RDM, nobody can manadump quite as well as a BLU.


Quote:
I would posit that if you're geared the way you ought to be, any edge RDM would grant you from a few hundred MP every 10 minutes,


Few hundred? Try 1500, or more if you're Taru or simply better geared for it than me.

Sounds like someone needs to get some merit abyssites.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 7:06pm by Fynlar
#19 Nov 21 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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I sport 2x refresh atmas on BLU, but it's not enough to let me continuously spam. Other than a Chainspelling RDM, nobody can manadump quite as well as a BLU


I'm figuring if you are dropping 600mp per minute; you will have hate. This hate will not only be from the mob, but from your healers as well. More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.
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#20 Nov 21 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm figuring if you are dropping 600mp per minute; you will have hate. This hate will not only be from the mob, but from your healers as well.


Healers having trouble healing in Abyssea? Really?

Quote:
More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.


I wonder, if you were a healer, would you be applying that same logic toward melee subbing /WAR or /SAM in your group?

If so, that'd be the cue for me to find a better healer.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 7:39pm by Fynlar
#21 Nov 21 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Default
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More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.


healers in abyssea heal. i dont see how this a problem. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage. why would you want your dd to do less damage so your healers dont have heal as much? isnt this the same logic behind people doing /sam in colibri pt's instead of /nin? if your blu is the only one getting hit, then get him a good healer or get some better dd's that are able to take hate once in a while or at least do damage to kill the mob a bit faster.
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99war 99mnk 96whm 99blm 90rdm 99thf 85pld 99bst 99brd 99drg
99blu 99pup 60sch 99dnc 99nin 99sam
50/50 glavoid shells
50/50 itz scales
6/75 orthrus claws
#22 Nov 21 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Few hundred? Try 1500, or more if you're Taru or simply better geared for it than me.



I'm no taru, But I don't see you getting a 1500 MP pool (- the MP to heal your HP back up of course) in anything resembling decent phys casting, or tp gear.

If you want to theory craft what your benefit of that bonus few hundred MP is, be sure to not to use spell Avgs from an actual cast set while you burn down your pool to a max-MP sustainable in real gear.

Quote:
I wonder, if you were a healer, would you be applying that same logic toward melee subbing /WAR or /SAM in your group?


It wasn't my post, but personally, Yeah. If I were a healer and there's someone in my group actively trying to kill themselves, I wouldn't feel too bad letting them have it their way.

I value DD's that can manage their output -without- becoming a burden to the support line.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 9:31pm by renasci
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Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#23 Nov 21 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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School is a process to teach you to learn. That is why we have "useless" subjects which would have ALMOST been better examples, such as History and Sciences. Just because you do not use them does not mean learning is worthless. Try teaching a a 40 year old who dropped out of H.S. thermonuclear reactor processes. Unless he is a savant, he won't get it because his brain is not attuned to learning. Teach the same thing to a grad student, at least they well get some of it.


I think school OUGHT to be that process, but unfortunately it seems like the focus is far more brute memorization than imparting the value of critical thinking.
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Pld64/Cor50/Rdm50/War45//Thf38

Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#24 Nov 21 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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healers in abyssea heal. i dont see how this a problem. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage.


Thank god someone gets it.


Quote:
I'm no taru, But I don't see you getting a 1500 MP pool (- the MP to heal your HP back up of course) in anything resembling decent phys casting, or tp gear.


Psst, you don't have to keep your standard casting gear on all the time. If putting on that gear after Convert would zap a third of your potential max MP (with +MP gear on), then here's an idea -- don't put it on yet. Any spells you cast with your +MP gear on is still a ton of extra potential damage until your MP falls to the point where you can take the +MP gear off without losing any MP.


Quote:
It wasn't my post, but personally, Yeah. If I were a healer and there's someone in my group actively trying to kill themselves, I wouldn't feel too bad letting them have it their way.


Then, as I said, it would be time for me to rep you with an actual healer.

Again, it's Abyssea. Healers should not be having trouble doing their jobs, blood tanks or not.
#25 Nov 22 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage. why would you want your dd to do less damage so your healers dont have heal as much?


Oddly enough, most healers dont care about what your damage output is. And some are even lazy.
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#26 Nov 22 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, I've outright left parties where I don't get healed when I'm on a job expected to do damage.
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