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#1 Nov 19 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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You're an experienced player returning after a number of years, with the intention of running as a BLU main. You've researched fairly heavily, but are finding inconclusive information regarding BLU in the new, post-75 world, particularly about subjobs.

My question is this: If you're on a brand new character, which path would you take, to optimize your play time? (i.e., which subs are proving most valuable ;) )

My time is limited these days, and I would hate to have spent the effort leveling a sub that proved to be less than useful.
#2 Nov 20 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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/nin is my general go to sub if im not sure whats going on, doing nm's, or in a pick up.

/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up

/sch is popular but i havent tried it much. i did do 85blu/30sch with light arts up and do 700 plenilune embrace without a light staff. i imagine i could probably push it to 800-900 in abyssea.

other than that, i think /thf still has uses. /dnc....
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6/75 orthrus claws
#3 Nov 20 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
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this is how i roll.











guess someone had to do it, sorry >.>

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 4:15am by DarkBiBi
#4 Nov 20 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks figster! 42½ times more useful than a link to a video that contains content that is not available in my country. ;)

Helps me plan out my order of progression.
#5 Nov 20 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Default
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IMO /rdm in abyessa is useless. If your going to sub a mage, /sch.

/RDM gives you refresh, so does battery charge, they dont stack. Rdm can dispil, so can /sch.
/rdm lacks reraise
/rdm gets a C rating 129-159 skill. /sch 220-280.

Why is skill important? Try landing a dispell with 120 vs 220. Or as noted above healing affects your blumagic spells on top of blu magic.

Drain, aspir, at a B+ or higher rating. You can also GA these spells while solo. No rdm can do that. This helps when doing mog trials. Drain for 1k+ will be great

/rdm has hase, so does blu.

JA Conserve MP 3 at 90 for sch.

If you want to tank on blu, Ereasga

even Phantax is worthless as it is skill related. 120 skill, i'm sorry it won't help you much. We get Magic barrie 100% protection on mp spells at us. Sch gets regan 2 as well.

And if in abyessa you can always get a +5-10 refresh ATMA. So I wouldnt bother. Some people have problems with breath or nukes landing in abyessa. Well /sch give syou access to many weather spells, equip a sea obi and now you can get better nukes.

/nin is ok. I say /thf for V dive is great and cannoncall.

/drk is nice for attack bonus JA 3 @ 90 and LR SE what stack with our spells. This is more for a KS 30 or a Abyessa NM zerg suggesion. At 90 we get absorb TP and all other absorb spells. These in turn can help us buff our spells. We get same rating as a /rdm would just different spells.

People thought rdm was going to own for blu. But SE gave us all the spells we would of got by subbing it and we are not gimped witha C rating due to subjob.


Edited, Nov 20th 2010 2:53pm by kimjongil76
#6 Nov 20 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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kimjongil76 wrote:
IMO /rdm in abyessa is useless. If your going to sub a mage, /sch.

/RDM gives you refresh, so does battery charge, they dont stack. Rdm can dispil, so can /sch.
/rdm lacks reraise
/rdm gets a C rating 129-159 skill. /sch 220-280.

Why is skill important? Try landing a dispell with 120 vs 220. Or as noted above healing affects your blumagic spells on top of blu magic.

Drain, aspir, at a B+ or higher rating. You can also GA these spells while solo. No rdm can do that. This helps when doing mog trials. Drain for 1k+ will be great

/rdm has hase, so does blu.

JA Conserve MP 3 at 90 for sch.

If you want to tank on blu, Ereasga

even Phantax is worthless as it is skill related. 120 skill, i'm sorry it won't help you much. We get Magic barrie 100% protection on mp spells at us. Sch gets regan 2 as well.

And if in abyessa you can always get a +5-10 refresh ATMA. So I wouldnt bother. Some people have problems with breath or nukes landing in abyessa. Well /sch give syou access to many weather spells, equip a sea obi and now you can get better nukes.


did i say i use for dispel? did i say i use it for regen? do i care if sch gets regen 2(but so does blu so im confused)? i had assumed that when i said "/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back" i figured everyone would have collectively said "convert. he's using it for convert to get a full mp bar when he runs out and cant make it go back up fast enough."
do i have a 5mp/tic atma? yes. do i have a 10mp/tic atma? yes. do i have refresh 2 or battery charge on? most likely. do i use ether's and elixers as fast as the come from chests? yes. do i still run out of mp? sometimes. so would convert be good to use? absolutely. so instead of saying
kimjongil76 wrote:
blah blah blah, negative negative negative

write something constructive.
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#7 Nov 20 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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I usually go /nin and full out DD wading into the middle of things.
I generally need /nin because... I pull hate, alot... and it helps to tank :D (****, I even put cocoon back in the mix!)

Blu really is one of those jobs that can be molded to your play style.

Like nukes? Gear more magey and have fun with breath - I've seen some blu's do some amazing things. At this point, /rdm or /sch are your friends

Want to stand back, SATACAEFF and see some huge single numbers? /thf is still your best bet.

Want to wade in there, two swords hacking, popping off 2k+SCC's for the BLM's to MB (and get themselves killed?) - /nin is your friend. Because, lets face it, if they don't MB, there's a mob looking at you, and he's not happy.

With my standard spell set, I generally have fun being on the front lines, hacking away, debuffing a bit (Flash, stun, poison... think I have 1 or 2 others in there), helping to cure if the WHM is overwhelmed, and seeing some great, big numbers from SSC's.

The best part is, you can change what your job does a the flip of a sub-job and re-gearing.
Not to helpful... but some options at least.
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#8 Nov 20 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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I just recently hit 85 but I've learned a good amount on this forum(amazing posters), in game from friends, and as playing it.

/nin is your main sub. It's essential no matter what you end up doing.

/rdm is "neat"(I am doing it for enspells and phalanx while while nerfed, are FUN)

/sch I know nothing about, which means "sh*t is situational" and you don't need it.

/dnc is fun for solo, I have lived MANY times by healing via TP rather than MP and killed an add or two with single digit MP remaining that as any other sub I'd not have had. However, Blu are squishy. We have AWFUL evasion skill and TERRIBLE defense without specific buffs/builds. Use for solo'ing EP or the like for fun.

All said and done, /nin is the only sub you need.
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#9 Nov 20 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Lots of good information. Thank you, gentlemen! This should help me get off to a good start.
#10 Nov 20 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I liked the long tirade about /RDM being useless in Abyssea while completely ignoring the one thing you'd probably sub it for.
#11 Nov 20 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dinishte wrote:
/sch I know nothing about, which means "sh*t is situational" and you don't need it.


Just because it's situational and you know nothing about it does not mean it's "not needed."

Reraise, useable Drain/Aspir, better curing spells (yes, even the Blue magic spells get buffed by /SCH), a dispel you don't have to use set points for, more sleeps (again, no points set for them), access to some nukes (with native gear to make it work ok... even if it isn't wonderful), Sublimation, Regen2, situational use for Desert Boots and Sandstorm... /SCH adds a lot to BLU. Unfortunately, it doesn't add a lot of defensive capability and Accession doesn't work with BLU spells. Given some of our more potent defensive abilities, though, this can be overlooked. It just doesn't add much on offense, either, specifically, and so it isn't used a ton. I used to use it in Campaign at 75 and tank 3-4 mobs at once - sleeping any if I got in over my head just a little too much. I could have handled more, but I hated being that guy holding up the entire event - I'd drag my 3-4 just out of sight of the tower sot he NPCs wouldn't kill them then would have at it. If campaign were anything like Bastion, I'd probably still be doing it to this day.

If I didn't end up tanking 90% of the time I was on BLU, I'd consider playing around with /SCH some more.
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#12 Nov 20 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Default
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Well, I am glad others do see my point.

And as for convert, you assume you have HP, and when you convert you cure yourself. As a Galka, even if I am fulll HP, I have to spend 200+ MP on a convert to cure myself. So it is not effecient. Subligation stacks with metalic body. So as MP stores you get MP back and you can store it while get your +5 refresh from ATMAs.

/sch saying sch is for situations due to you not knowing is a sign of ignorence. That be the same as a student telling a teacher basic math is useless as I don't know and it wont help me get a job. Learn about something before you critize it.

I deont even see /rdms. Say a few upon update but after that it was mostly nin and a few /schs. As our friend pointed out, we get sandstorm. The next update we get rainstorm. After that wind and fire. These spells can be placed on us.

Acrid stream is water based, it would enhance our magic accuracy. In addition you can put on the sea obi and do even more dmg. The same would go for spells like firespit, blazing bond, and a few other spells. The part most people overlook though is the spell points saved by sch.

an AoE cure 3, erease, is nice, as well as paralizna, poisena and so on.

Conserve MP JA 3 saves 4 points
Dispil regardless if you use, saves 2-3
Even having sleep 1 spell that can land and AoE saves points of sorpethic. 4

My healing skill on blu/sch is 300 my drk is 320. Those are A ratings, so I wouldnt want to give myself below 200 for subbing rdm what doesn't save me on points and gives me less spells to work with. But again it is just my expereince and opinion.

When you go get a mog sword and have to kill 100+ birds. It sure is nice to gather together 20+ and just aoe drain for 1800 recover and death of monsters. No healing spell inthe game can equal that or aoe aspir.
#13 Nov 21 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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fynlar wrote:
I liked the long tirade about /RDM being useless in Abyssea while completely ignoring the one thing you'd probably sub it for.


reading. no one does it.
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#14 Nov 21 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
figster wrote:
/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up


Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.
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#15 Nov 21 2010 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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BelenosSwiftWater wrote:
figster wrote:
/rdm if im in abyssea and going through mp faster than im getting it back. use it mainly if i cant keep shadows up


Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


Not to mention, Battery Charge is Refresh. So.. yeah.


As for being "ignorant" for saying Sch is situational and therefor not needed, maybe you should read the OP a couple of times before jumping out of your chair over a comment.

Quote:
My time is limited these days


Reading comprehension ftw.

Focus on the IMPORTANT sub, /nin. /sch has use, stop trying to twist "situational" into "useless" because you fail. In an exp party, you sub Ninja. Period. There is no point subbing anything else now that parties are 18 people and pure DD's. Maybe if you wanna do an old group outside, healing matters. In Abyssea, there is no shortage of Whms, Rdms, and Schs who need to cap skills/merit/exp.

Please learn to read before you have a conniption over someone saying situational. If I said "worthless" sure, have at, but I didn't. Calm your hormones. He wants the best result for his time, ninja is obviously best.

*edit*

As for comparing leveling a situational sub to a student challenging a teacher, that is the dumbest thing I have read on this forum in years. Seriously? Comparing a sub that MAY be used occasionally vs a learning environment?
Perspective, it's a **** of a thing.

1: Anyone who argues they do not need math, is an idiot. There is no person on Earth who does not use math on a daily basis. Telling time is even math based, so really?

2: School is a process to teach you to learn. That is why we have "useless" subjects which would have ALMOST been better examples, such as History and Sciences. Just because you do not use them does not mean learning is worthless. Try teaching a a 40 year old who dropped out of H.S. thermonuclear reactor processes. Unless he is a savant, he won't get it because his brain is not attuned to learning. Teach the same thing to a grad student, at least they well get some of it.

Stupid example is stupid.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 4:58am by Dinishte
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#16 Nov 21 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


Agreed.

The additional forms of refresh that Abyssea has given to us (be it 5 or 10mp a tic) means that the % of damage that comes from spells has shifted upward; it does NOT mean that you should forget how integral MP management is to BLU as a job. The only benefit to /rdm these days is Convert. We have Refresh, we have Fast Cast, we have dispel (and have had it since inception, I'm not sure why that came up).

What we don't have, is a native enhancing magic skill, so En-spells are lack luster.

I would posit that if you're geared the way you ought to be, any edge RDM would grant you from a few hundred MP every 10 minutes, is lost by having to blow the MP to cure yourself from the hate you ought to have from somehow managing to blow that much MP to need convert in the first place.

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#17 Nov 21 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Best path for Blu main.

Start mnk*, level mnk to 20. Unlock sub job and get choco liscense started.

Head back to your starting city. Level as war/mnk** up to at least 30.

Unlock Ninja and Blu advanced jobs.

Blu can be done solo. Nin needs a party at 30 or 1 high level person to kill leeches.

With ninja unlocked ( and your war leveled to 30+), you can nin/war up to 49 and that sub is done.

Now you can finally start Blu and go blu/nin all the way to 99.

*Mnk is the easiest job to get 1-20 in my experience. Its much faster than thf or war in those levels.
** Without having advanced jobs unlocked. War/mnk is better to try and get to 30 for advanced quests. Real key nowadays is get to Qufim at 20 and stay until 30 there.

For Blu honestly - /nin is overall most used sub. Quadratic Cont. has replaced Cannonball. and becasue of that spell Blus take tremendous hate. I now prefer Blu over Sam in a lot of abyssea stuff just because they can drop 1100-2000 Quads at nearly any time. with /nin they tank most stuff and with 2+ can trade hate just fine.

The ones that solo still /nin. I have one thats tried /rdm and while having self refresh and convert. He falls way behind the /nin ones because spends more time/mp having to self cure.

/dnc just doenst heal enough hp/mp if the mob is hitting you consistently to be useful. Plowing through Easy stuff in the teens is way different than trying to kill EP at 75+.

#18 Nov 21 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Getting a refresh atma is very easy, and there is just no reason to sub RDM.


I sport 2x refresh atmas on BLU, but it's not enough to let me continuously spam. Other than a Chainspelling RDM, nobody can manadump quite as well as a BLU.


Quote:
I would posit that if you're geared the way you ought to be, any edge RDM would grant you from a few hundred MP every 10 minutes,


Few hundred? Try 1500, or more if you're Taru or simply better geared for it than me.

Sounds like someone needs to get some merit abyssites.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 7:06pm by Fynlar
#19 Nov 21 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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I sport 2x refresh atmas on BLU, but it's not enough to let me continuously spam. Other than a Chainspelling RDM, nobody can manadump quite as well as a BLU


I'm figuring if you are dropping 600mp per minute; you will have hate. This hate will not only be from the mob, but from your healers as well. More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.
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#20 Nov 21 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm figuring if you are dropping 600mp per minute; you will have hate. This hate will not only be from the mob, but from your healers as well.


Healers having trouble healing in Abyssea? Really?

Quote:
More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.


I wonder, if you were a healer, would you be applying that same logic toward melee subbing /WAR or /SAM in your group?

If so, that'd be the cue for me to find a better healer.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 7:39pm by Fynlar
#21 Nov 21 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Default
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More than likely, they will say something like "Why is this dumbass /rdm? Just let him die and make it easier on everyone." Just my 2-cents on why I /nin.


healers in abyssea heal. i dont see how this a problem. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage. why would you want your dd to do less damage so your healers dont have heal as much? isnt this the same logic behind people doing /sam in colibri pt's instead of /nin? if your blu is the only one getting hit, then get him a good healer or get some better dd's that are able to take hate once in a while or at least do damage to kill the mob a bit faster.
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99blu 99pup 60sch 99dnc 99nin 99sam
50/50 glavoid shells
50/50 itz scales
6/75 orthrus claws
#22 Nov 21 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Few hundred? Try 1500, or more if you're Taru or simply better geared for it than me.



I'm no taru, But I don't see you getting a 1500 MP pool (- the MP to heal your HP back up of course) in anything resembling decent phys casting, or tp gear.

If you want to theory craft what your benefit of that bonus few hundred MP is, be sure to not to use spell Avgs from an actual cast set while you burn down your pool to a max-MP sustainable in real gear.

Quote:
I wonder, if you were a healer, would you be applying that same logic toward melee subbing /WAR or /SAM in your group?


It wasn't my post, but personally, Yeah. If I were a healer and there's someone in my group actively trying to kill themselves, I wouldn't feel too bad letting them have it their way.

I value DD's that can manage their output -without- becoming a burden to the support line.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 9:31pm by renasci
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Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#23 Nov 21 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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School is a process to teach you to learn. That is why we have "useless" subjects which would have ALMOST been better examples, such as History and Sciences. Just because you do not use them does not mean learning is worthless. Try teaching a a 40 year old who dropped out of H.S. thermonuclear reactor processes. Unless he is a savant, he won't get it because his brain is not attuned to learning. Teach the same thing to a grad student, at least they well get some of it.


I think school OUGHT to be that process, but unfortunately it seems like the focus is far more brute memorization than imparting the value of critical thinking.
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Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#24 Nov 21 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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healers in abyssea heal. i dont see how this a problem. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage.


Thank god someone gets it.


Quote:
I'm no taru, But I don't see you getting a 1500 MP pool (- the MP to heal your HP back up of course) in anything resembling decent phys casting, or tp gear.


Psst, you don't have to keep your standard casting gear on all the time. If putting on that gear after Convert would zap a third of your potential max MP (with +MP gear on), then here's an idea -- don't put it on yet. Any spells you cast with your +MP gear on is still a ton of extra potential damage until your MP falls to the point where you can take the +MP gear off without losing any MP.


Quote:
It wasn't my post, but personally, Yeah. If I were a healer and there's someone in my group actively trying to kill themselves, I wouldn't feel too bad letting them have it their way.


Then, as I said, it would be time for me to rep you with an actual healer.

Again, it's Abyssea. Healers should not be having trouble doing their jobs, blood tanks or not.
#25 Nov 22 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage. why would you want your dd to do less damage so your healers dont have heal as much?


Oddly enough, most healers dont care about what your damage output is. And some are even lazy.
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#26 Nov 22 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, I've outright left parties where I don't get healed when I'm on a job expected to do damage.
#27 Nov 22 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm no taru, But I don't see you getting a 1500 MP pool (- the MP to heal your HP back up of course) in anything resembling decent phys casting, or tp gear.

If you want to theory craft what your benefit of that bonus few hundred MP is, be sure to not to use spell Avgs from an actual cast set while you burn down your pool to a max-MP sustainable in real gear.

Quote:
Psst, you don't have to keep your standard casting gear on all the time. If putting on that gear after Convert would zap a third of your potential max MP (with +MP gear on), then here's an idea -- don't put it on yet. Any spells you cast with your +MP gear on is still a ton of extra potential damage until your MP falls to the point where you can take the +MP gear off without losing any MP.


??

I'm not exactly sure what your point is, since I said as much in the original post.


Quote:
healers in abyssea heal. i dont see how this a problem. if a blu is getting hit the most in the alliance then he's probably also doing the most damage.


There's no rule that says you can't have the most hate and be taking ZERO damage...



Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 5:02pm by renasci
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Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#28 Nov 22 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not exactly sure what your point is, since I said as much in the original post.


I'm not exactly sure what YOUR point was, unless you're trying to figure out whether or not [some amount of damage] is greater than zero. (If you haven't figured it out yet, the answer is yes.)

I don't really give a **** about spell averages or parses or whatever. The bottom line is that by not taking advantage of your bonus MP, you are still losing a big chunk of your damage and in such a case you might as well not even bother with subbing /RDM at all. Surprising as it may seem, BLU spells can actually still do decent damage with absolutely nothing but a sword equipped.


Quote:
There's no rule that says you can't have the most hate and be taking ZERO damage...


Well yeah, but if you're giving up Convert to use /NIN (which is not necessarily a bad thing, don't get me wrong), it does mean you are giving up potential MP and can't spam as much, meaning you ARE giving up potential damage. Even with dual Refresh atmas, like I've said, I can still easily spam myself out of MP on BLU, and if you can't, you're not trying hard enough. Playing BLU is akin to playing RDM with constant Chainspell on, really.
#29 Nov 22 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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...you don't seem to be getting it.

I wasn't attacking your first post. I merely meant, that if you're doing a sub job comparison between /rdm and something else (/nin let's say) that when(if) you run the math, you should take into account that the bonus spells you can cast from extra MP from convert will not be at the full damage as provided by a casting set, since you have to spend down to you normal Max MP.

So yeah, the venom on your part was wholly unnecessary and unprovoked.

Continuing the point though, you'd have also have to take into effect the loss to acc and damage to TP'ing from being in a full MP set, in addition to the damage losses from DW1 vs DW2 (assuming DW1 is set as /rdm), and added MP losses for the additional healing required.

Which is to say, if the numbers were run, your gains could be slim to nil (then again, they could be significant, I don't know, I'm only pointing out the variables)

Quote:
I can still easily spam myself out of MP on BLU, and if you can't, you're not trying hard enough


Can doesn't mean should.
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Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#30 Nov 22 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
BLU spells can actually still do decent damage with absolutely nothing but a sword equipped.




By decent, do you mean slightly less than a rdm with joy toy and en-spells? Without spells, we would be around that level i think.
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#31 Nov 22 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Man what a big debate. Sad thing is we go throug this once to twice a month. A common question just asked by a new person picking up the job.

I judge by lvl 99 not 85.

So to make it easy and tto make it so no one argues, the question is "What /sub to level"

/nin if you want most melee dmg and damage midigation due to dhadows. DW3+ shadows are the strength. Loss of MP and other JT are its weaknesses.

/rdm strength is convert, fast cast 3, a bonus to mp pool. C rating spell catahory, and enspells. Weaknesses MP cost after convert, DW 1

/sch B+ rating all magic, conserve MP 3, reraise, weather spells to buff "some" blue magic. Subligation, what does stack with certain refreshs "Atma + refresh 2" Saave points "sleep, dispil conserve mp. But I say its mostly used if your playing blu as a nuker, not a melee. AoE drain aspir, dispil. weather spells to buff firespit blazing bond acrid stream and such.

So

/nin if your a melee blu
/rdm is your average maybe solo, but no reraise.
/sch if you want to nuke and endless MP

IMO /sch makes teh best even in exp lately. Seems my ls either fights frogs, or sperm. In both cases we 3 shot AOE. War does new WS AOE, Smn Odin, Blu Whir of Rage + heat Breath. The reason I say /sch in both cases for these monsters you can AoE aspir to get your 5000 mp back.

/if I was a blu/nin they ask me to sit on the sidelines as the party is not fighting one moster at a time.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 12:56am by kimjongil76
#32 Nov 23 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Default
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I would just sub nin and forget the rest, no matter what your doing its the one you cant go wrong with. In abysea sub what ever you want. Being a nin 85 has shown me that shadows are practically useless on any other job but nin main.
I personally like /war for berserk. sure you take damage but thats what whm's are for. Even with shadows you gonna get pounded after doing a 1200 savage blade > 2000 gob rush lol you wont get shadows back up so dont bother. Wouldn't use a mage sub ever cause they offer nothing important except MAB which is easy to get in large amount without a mage sub. All the benefits from mage sub fall mostly in the support category and that should be handled by some one else so you can DD. Convert is good but i rarely ever need to use it even as a smn even less as a blu. I guess if you wanted to supplement your spells and save some points for other spells you could sub a mage to fill in the gaps.

In the end nin wins and its mostly because of the higher tier of dual wield you get
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#33 Nov 24 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
you should take into account that the bonus spells you can cast from extra MP from convert will not be at the full damage as provided by a casting set,


Well duh. The reduction isn't nearly as drastic as you're making it out to be though. You seem to be giving off the impression that it isn't even worthwhile to try to do something like that, which just isn't true.

BLU isn't the only job on which I've employed a tactic like that, either. Efficient RDMs have obviously done it for years now, and now other mages are getting into it as well due to Convert now being subbable.

This is the kind of thing that spellcast will take care of for you automatically, as well, if you've written up the code correctly. You don't NEED it to use it though; you just need some brains and a little effort.

Quote:
Can doesn't mean should.


If you're a DD, why shouldn't you be trying to do as much damage as possible? Especially in Abyssea which is probably the best place in the game to actually get away with doing so?

Quote:
By decent, do you mean slightly less than a rdm with joy toy and en-spells? Without spells, we would be around that level i think.


Well, we DO have spells, and they still function just fine as long as you have a sword equipped, so I'm not sure what the point of your argument is... as usual.

Really, assuming you've got atma, your standard melee DoT should be taking a backseat to spell DoT in Abyssea. I know that is not necessarily how it should be everywhere else in the game, but the fact of the matter is that Abyssea has changed efficient battle mechanics and strategies around.

Quote:
Being a nin 85 has shown me that shadows are practically useless on any other job but nin main.


That's by far one of the most ignorant statements I've read on these forums in some time. Have you ever heard of RDM, or THF, or DNC, or most of the other jobs that aren't in your sig?

Quote:
Subligation, what does stack with certain refreshs "Atma + refresh 2"


Sublimation does NOT stack with Refresh. In fact, Refresh 2 will *overwrite* Sublimation, so if you have stored MP and someone casts Refresh 2 on you, kiss that MP goodbye.

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 7:52pm by Fynlar
#34 Nov 24 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you're a DD, why shouldn't you be trying to do as much damage as possible?


A DD should be trying to do as much damage as is SUSTAINABLY possible.

If you have a group of mages who have nothing better to do than Cure you, then your strategy works fine. If you have ones who can't sustain the MP strain, or have their focus split by having to heal multiple targets (i.e. aoe heavy mobs like worms) Or ****, just don't like sponges, then spastic casting just gets you dead.

Ask monks how often they get to sub /war, for example.
____________________________
.:Seraph:.
Blu90/Drg90/Dnc90/Mnk90/Nin90/Rng75/Sam75/Bst66
Pld64/Cor50/Rdm50/War45//Thf38

Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#35 Nov 24 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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It's really not that hard to stay alive in Abyssea parties when you pull hate. Just hit it with 1-2 headbutts, use Sanguine Blade when needed and it only takes basic MND gears (which dont differ too greatly from my SB build) to pop 500 Magic Fruit on myself. Unless you run into some major crits in a row or something, its tough to die. Heck, on certain mobs, SB can hit for 800-1000 pretty consistently, healing back a good chuck of HP.

I personally have used /RDM almost all the time now (as I solo a lot of magian, seals, etc) and its great. I have no problem taking out IT Murex with /RDM. Icespikes, Protect/Shell, MATK, En-spell (5-10dmg per hit with OA2-3x swords adds up quick), Convert and Fastcast 2 make it a great sub. Not to mention Dispel is great and even with the crappy rating, rarely gets resisted. Eventually I'll level up SCH to compare, but I love /RDM. (I typically set Accuracy Bonus, DW, DA, Conserve MP, Refresh, SC Bonus)

Really hard to go wrong with subs with so many settable traits these days.
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#36 Nov 25 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If you have ones who can't sustain the MP strain,


If this is ever true in Abyssea of all places, your group/healer(s) has much bigger problems than you trying to do as much damage as you can.

Quote:
or have their focus split by having to heal multiple targets (i.e. aoe heavy mobs like worms)


In which case everyone else on the frontline is going to be taking about as much damage as you anyway (and it also isn't going to mean a **** thing defensively whether you sub /NIN or not). What's the big deal?

By the way, I would hope you don't put melee on worms; that's a huge waste of potential. They're meant for BLMs (assuming you're not just farming pops for Pallid Percy). The melees should be going to chigoes or something.
#37 Nov 25 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
By the way, I would hope you don't put melee on worms; that's a huge waste of potential. They're meant for BLMs (assuming you're not just farming pops for Pallid Percy). The melees should be going to chigoes or something.


I don't pretend to know why people like making pt's at worms, all I know is that they do.

Quote:
Not to mention Dispel is great and even with the crappy rating, rarely gets resisted.



Why does Dispel keep coming back as a pro for /RDM? We have no less than FOUR ways of removing buffs from mobs, natively.
____________________________
.:Seraph:.
Blu90/Drg90/Dnc90/Mnk90/Nin90/Rng75/Sam75/Bst66
Pld64/Cor50/Rdm50/War45//Thf38

Square Enix when ToAU first went live wrote:
The TP information included in "physical" blue magic spells is
only applicable when using the job ability "Chain Affinity."
#38 Nov 25 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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162 posts
To the OP:

Tepogue has a good answer. By the time you're done with all that you will have a better understanding of the game in general to determine what other subs you need.

For the subjob argument:

Why can't people get things are situational? Period. I've been in lots of abyssea parties where there are in fact NOT enough healers. I can go /rdm or /sch and pop off huge magic fruits/plenilune embrace and keep a party healed just fine. If there's a moderate amount of healers, I can actually get away /rdm being the top DD AND consistently throwing out magic fruits to myself and others without losing all my mp thanks to atma. I feel much more invincible with this insane amount of refresh than before.

When I know I need to tank or I'm soloing? Am I fighting more dangerous abyssea mobs and my whole party sucks? /nin all the way. I can save everyone's butts a lot better /nin than any other sub. It can depend on if you're with really reliable friends or a terrible pick-up party. Just be ready to adjust accordingly.

Convert set: There's a reason rdm have long had a convert set. You add enough mp to your pool to cure yourself back up to full at the very least with no loss to your regular mp pool. Any extra after that you burn with a slightly weaker casting set. Then you switch back to tp/spell casting set and have virtually lost no mp otherwise. It's been a trick for years.
#39 Nov 25 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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Well, we DO have spells, and they still function just fine as long as you have a sword equipped, so I'm not sure what the point of your argument is... as usual.

Really, assuming you've got atma, your standard melee DoT should be taking a backseat to spell DoT in Abyssea. I know that is not necessarily how it should be everywhere else in the game, but the fact of the matter is that Abyssea has changed efficient battle mechanics and strategies around.



I read the post that I repsonded to, too quickly. I thought it said something like "blue can do decent damage with just swords equipped". I skipped over the word "spells" which was a key word. My mistake.
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You can't transform numbers into other numbers like that. It'd just go on forever. That's like witchcraft.


There's one guy I know who
Quote:
is a big deal now.
#40 Nov 25 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't pretend to know why people like making pt's at worms, all I know is that they do.


Well, those people are doing it wrong. I've only ever seen BLMs xping on those, which is how it should be. Many of them are actually there to help farm TE for a bigger group doing other things elsewhere, as well.

Quote:
Why does Dispel keep coming back as a pro for /RDM? We have no less than FOUR ways of removing buffs from mobs, natively.


One of them is a gaze which is annoying to use in groups, one of them is AoE, one of them takes forever to cast, and one of them has an enormous recast time. They all have their disadvantages, not to mention that they cost set points.

Quote:
I read the post that I repsonded to, too quickly. I thought it said something like "blue can do decent damage with just swords equipped". I skipped over the word "spells" which was a key word. My mistake.


Fair enough XD
#41 Nov 26 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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The best part of dispel is no set points. The fact that it casts decently quick, has a low recast time and low MP cost make it an advantage for the sub (not massive, but i have no set points to spare, so note-worthy at least).
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