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#27 Oct 08 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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I assume so, and based on my very non-scientific observations they do seem to help. With no STR/DEX atma on, just the normal STR/DEX cruor buffs, it seems like Garuda is quite a bit stronger than normal.

It only costs 100 cruor so I have just been doing it in case it helps. I'd be curious if someone does eventually test this... for now I'm going to assume based on my observations that it works.


Edit: I'm also gonna have to agree with Vlorsutes on the pendant dropping in a golden chest... pics or it didn't happen.


Doesn't need any real testing really. Just ask a puppetmaster to check for you.
#28 Oct 09 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Had this for a couple weeks now and i still havent quite figured out the weather effect. Its seems sometime the element and avatar doesnt matter. Then there are times when im cerian the weather is having no effect on my perp cost. Unless im using the matching element. Whats been you alls experience with it?
Example yesterday i was killing hippos with a friend and had 4mp refresh during thunder weather with fenrir ,favor ,and yama's +1. Water weather in sea serpant grotto didnt have this same effect and i only saw - perp when my laten ring was active.

Could be im just missing something maybe i need to test more... idk
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#29 Oct 10 2010 at 4:49 AM Rating: Excellent
AlternativeOne wrote:
Had this for a couple weeks now and i still havent quite figured out the weather effect. Its seems sometime the element and avatar doesnt matter. Then there are times when im cerian the weather is having no effect on my perp cost. Unless im using the matching element. Whats been you alls experience with it?
Example yesterday i was killing hippos with a friend and had 4mp refresh during thunder weather with fenrir ,favor ,and yama's +1. Water weather in sea serpant grotto didnt have this same effect and i only saw - perp when my laten ring was active.

Could be im just missing something maybe i need to test more... idk


It's going to be a weather effect of the same element as the avatar itself. The text is identical to the Summoner's Horn relic piece, which only kicks in if there is a weather effect present that's of the same element as the avatar. Shiva would need ice weather, Ramuh would need thunderstorms, etc.

For your example with Fenrir and the Hippogryphs, could you give us more details? If you could give like a full list of details (your gear, your subjob, any latents active, any buffs you had on, etc).

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#30 Oct 10 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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atmas definitely apply, but cruor buffs dont...
theres like some evidence out there with PUP tests..

anyway even if it did, it'd probably only work with a single casting of a pet thats already out and not dismissed, considering cruor buffs wear when you die or d/c...

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#31 Oct 10 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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anyway even if it did, it'd probably only work with a single casting of a pet thats already out and not dismissed, considering cruor buffs wear when you die or d/c...


They go away when you zone. Zoning includes d/c, tractor, and leaving. Dying does not get rid of them. I died duoing an iron giant earlier and the buffs didn't wear. Looking back at my log right now, they wore when I exited abyssea - attowha and zoned into buburimu.
#32 Oct 11 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Mellowy wrote:
Didn't hadal satiator or something drop the legs too? Or am I lost on my abyssea VNMs?



You are quite correct. I'm itching to fight him for both the atma and the legs. I also just got the Durinn atma so I'm looking forward to paring that with Hadal's for Shiva (or Eccentric Eve's atma for Garuda!)
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#33 Oct 12 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Sasaraixx wrote:
You are quite correct. I'm itching to fight him for both the atma and the legs. I also just got the Durinn atma so I'm looking forward to paring that with Hadal's for Shiva (or Eccentric Eve's atma for Garuda!)


I want both Beyond and MM so bad. I have a pop for Hadal maybe I should just shout..

I wanna see how good Razed Ruins is for PClaws. EE+RR might put out impressive numbers. (But then you lose refresh ; ;)

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#34 Oct 12 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Forget Eve's atma, it's been shown that double attack isn't that great for BPs. The STR+ and Regain+ are conflicting bonuses for SMN as well... unless you mix physical & magical BPs.

I think the best two are Stout Arm (Braireus) and Razed Ruin (Pulverizer). I don't have Razed Ruin yet but I figure it's probably the best since Pred Claws is critical damage. I do have (and absolutely love) Stout Arm.
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#35 Oct 12 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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You guys can get decent Predator Claw numbers in Abyssea? Every time I've done Abyssea (EXP, or NMs) my predator claws always fall short of wind blade... And that's without my Atma of Beyond (I typically use Ambition in abyssea... getting 2nd lunar abyssite soon so i can do Beyond/Ambition)
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#36 Oct 12 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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SakkaofValefor wrote:
You guys can get decent Predator Claw numbers in Abyssea? Every time I've done Abyssea (EXP, or NMs) my predator claws always fall short of wind blade... And that's without my Atma of Beyond (I typically use Ambition in abyssea... getting 2nd lunar abyssite soon so i can do Beyond/Ambition)

Funny, I'm the opposite. Wind Blade or other merit BPs don't even come close to Pred Claws.

I use Stout Arm + Minikin atmas (STR+40 Atk+50, Refresh+10 INT+50) and pick up STR/DEX cruor buffs as well. I also have 5/5 physical acc & 5/5 physical attack merits, so I'm definitely geared toward physical to begin with.

Against normal exp mobs, Pred Claws will do 1800-3000 damage. Against NMs, generally 1500-2000 damage. This includes pretty much every tier 1 pop NM in the 3 new zones, almost all of them I average about 1800 on Pred Claws and a little over 1000 for Wind Blade (up to 1700 with 300% TP). Some take more, Ironclad Executioner takes 2400+ damage usually from Pred Claws. I did 2800 to Avalerion once (colibri NM). I did Mictlantecuhtli yesterday and Mountain Buster was doing 2400, compared to peoples' Wind Blades which were doing about 1000-1400 (I think the 1400's were using atma).

Lately there's been a huge Summoner movement toward the magical BPs, but I think Abyssea and the level increases have brought the physical BPs back into the fold. Of course, I don't think anything at this point can touch Heavenly Strike in the right circumstances, mainly due to Atma of the Beyond... it's something of a special case right now. Especially if the wielder has Nirvana, then physical BPs go straight out the window I'd imagine.
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#37 Oct 12 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
SakkaofValefor wrote:
You guys can get decent Predator Claw numbers in Abyssea? Every time I've done Abyssea (EXP, or NMs) my predator claws always fall short of wind blade... And that's without my Atma of Beyond (I typically use Ambition in abyssea... getting 2nd lunar abyssite soon so i can do Beyond/Ambition)

Funny, I'm the opposite. Wind Blade or other merit BPs don't even come close to Pred Claws.

I use Stout Arm + Minikin atmas (STR+40 Atk+50, Refresh+10 INT+50) and pick up STR/DEX cruor buffs as well. I also have 5/5 physical acc & 5/5 physical attack merits, so I'm definitely geared toward physical to begin with.

Against normal exp mobs, Pred Claws will do 1800-3000 damage. Against NMs, generally 1500-2000 damage. This includes pretty much every tier 1 pop NM in the 3 new zones, almost all of them I average about 1800 on Pred Claws and a little over 1000 for Wind Blade (up to 1700 with 300% TP). Some take more, Ironclad Executioner takes 2400+ damage usually from Pred Claws. I did 2800 to Avalerion once (colibri NM). I did Mictlantecuhtli yesterday and Mountain Buster was doing 2400, compared to peoples' Wind Blades which were doing about 1000-1400 (I think the 1400's were using atma).

Lately there's been a huge Summoner movement toward the magical BPs, but I think Abyssea and the level increases have brought the physical BPs back into the fold. Of course, I don't think anything at this point can touch Heavenly Strike in the right circumstances, mainly due to Atma of the Beyond... it's something of a special case right now. Especially if the wielder has Nirvana, then physical BPs go straight out the window I'd imagine.


I have had better success with the Merit Pacts so far in Abyssea. And by Merit Pacts I mean Heavenly Strike. I don't have any of the awesome atmas yet aside from Minikin and I haven't been to Abyssea as SMN since I got that. Usually I just used the Shantotto and Windurst atmas for double refresh. My Heavenly Strikes do about 1700 damage with no TP. If Shiva gets some hits in that jumps up to 2000. I had not had particularly good results with P. Claws but as I said, I don't have any atmas that will help it yet. I hope to pick up Briareus, Pulverizer and Eve soon.

I think you are probably correct though about Shiva. With Atma of the Beyond and the right gear, it is going to be hard to beat Heavenly Strike. If only I could find some people to fight it!
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#38 Oct 12 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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Forget Eve's atma, it's been shown that double attack isn't that great for BPs. The STR+ and Regain+ are conflicting bonuses for SMN as well... unless you mix physical & magical BPs.


I know the double attack isn't the greatest with BPs but I really would just want the +50 STR. The added tp seems kind of conflicting, but at the same time, it's good to be able to pop off a nicer healing wind if you have a party of melee around Garuda. If she has haste on, you really don't have too many other uses for her ward timer besides healing if you're keeping her out. But I do agree with you that Stout Arm is pretty **** nice. Getting closer to cap Pdif is also what will make a big difference on bloodpacts of the physical variety.

Quote:
I use Stout Arm + Minikin atmas (STR+40 Atk+50, Refresh+10 INT+50) and pick up STR/DEX cruor buffs as well. I also have 5/5 physical acc & 5/5 physical attack merits, so I'm definitely geared toward physical to begin with.


So the int+ on Minikin doesn't really raise the damage on the merit bps all that much? I wouldn't expect anything phenomenal but I was hoping for a little more of a boost than that. I really need to get more atma to play with...

And by the way Pergatory, I truly enjoy your contributions and insight. I like reading what you have to say. Just feel like throwing that out there



Edited, Oct 12th 2010 10:40pm by Annalise
#39 Oct 13 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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So just got Beyond today. I've been pumping out 2.5k Heavenly Strikes all day. It's wonderful. 5/5 MAtk merits plus gear MAB (7 from staff I haven't finished, 7 from acp body, 2 from altius mantle, and the tp bonus from AF3+1) make for some impressive numbers with this atma. I want Baying Moon to see how much more 30 MAB will push that up. ; ;
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#40 Oct 13 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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SyncTheTempest wrote:
So just got Beyond today. I've been pumping out 2.5k Heavenly Strikes all day. It's wonderful. 5/5 MAtk merits plus gear MAB (7 from staff I haven't finished, 7 from acp body, 2 from altius mantle, and the tp bonus from AF3+1) make for some impressive numbers with this atma. I want Baying Moon to see how much more 30 MAB will push that up. ; ;


I am so jealous!
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#41 Oct 13 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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It's actually not to hard to get if you don't mind shouting/risking your luck. Solo'd the T2 pop. Duo'd the T3 pop (could be solo'd easily though.) Then shouted for some 14 odd people. Hit !! pretty early and decimated it. Just watch out for the babies and make sure people don't nuke the element it's absorbing and it's not too hard.

Also got Atma of Gales during said shout. 40 wind MAB and wind acc. Would be nice if I had Wind Blade meritted. :\
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#42 Oct 13 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Annalise wrote:
I know the double attack isn't the greatest with BPs but I really would just want the +50 STR. The added tp seems kind of conflicting, but at the same time, it's good to be able to pop off a nicer healing wind if you have a party of melee around Garuda.

I've found myself using Whispering Wind a LOT lately myself, so I can see how it would be useful. Caller's Pendant has definitely taught me the usefulness of TP. I will still take STR+40 Atk+50 over STR+50 with some handy regain though :)

Annalise wrote:
Getting closer to cap Pdif is also what will make a big difference on bloodpacts of the physical variety.

For most yes, but I really can't wait to see what Razed Ruin does for Pred Claws due to the whole critical nature of it. The STR/Atk one seems better-suited for things like Mountain Buster & Spinning Dive. It still works wonders for Pred Claws too, but I suspect Razed Ruin will be even better.

Annalise wrote:
So the int+ on Minikin doesn't really raise the damage on the merit bps all that much? I wouldn't expect anything phenomenal but I was hoping for a little more of a boost than that. I really need to get more atma to play with...

It's more or less immeasurable. It might not even affect damage at all, only resist rate. I think it's safe to ignore INT and go straight for MAB.

Annalise wrote:
And by the way Pergatory, I truly enjoy your contributions and insight. I like reading what you have to say. Just feel like throwing that out there

Thanks a bunch! A lot of people misread the bluntness in my posts as coldness, and don't see the empathy (internet strips emotion from posts, and all that jazz), and I tend to catch a lot of flak from them. So thanks for the words of encouragement :)
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#43 Oct 13 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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SyncTheTempest wrote:
It's actually not to hard to get if you don't mind shouting/risking your luck. Solo'd the T2 pop. Duo'd the T3 pop (could be solo'd easily though.) Then shouted for some 14 odd people. Hit !! pretty early and decimated it. Just watch out for the babies and make sure people don't nuke the element it's absorbing and it's not too hard.

Also got Atma of Gales during said shout. 40 wind MAB and wind acc. Would be nice if I had Wind Blade meritted. :\


Thanks for the info. Any tips if I try to solo the T2 and T3 pops myself? :)
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#44 Oct 13 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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It's more or less immeasurable. It might not even affect damage at all, only resist rate. I think it's safe to ignore INT and go straight for MAB.


I -thought- I remember someone saying that carbuncle's low (47 at 75?) int is what made meteorite damage pretty low, and raising his int with glittering ruby raised the base damage of it. I couldn't tell you where I saw that long ago, but I'm pretty sure I did... Then again, Meteorite =/= Merit blood pact, so they may be completely different anyways, who knows. The only way to test really is to see your numbers @ 0 tp on various mobs with and without the +50 int bonus I suppose. While the numbers may vary a bit from mob to mob by the level of the mob, I'd think if there was a worthwhile difference, it would definitely be noticeable.

I really want Atma of the Beyond though, so I'm going to see if I can work on getting the pop for that... In the meantime, I think I'll work on a shiva -perp staff (sitting on a slime trial right now...) and work toward a free shiva (with AF3 boots and horn I want also being quite delicious for making the non garuda avatars free...) With that atma, if in a party (with a rdm) I'd sub RDM (for convert) and ditch a refresh atma (though they are delicious) for another MAB atma or something for even crazier numbers. I figure free shiva + 6/tick refresh 2 + convert + temp items + siphon -should- be enough to keep me from resting... At least I hope.

Quote:

Thanks a bunch! A lot of people misread the bluntness in my posts as coldness, and don't see the empathy (internet strips emotion from posts, and all that jazz), and I tend to catch a lot of flak from them. So thanks for the words of encouragement :)


I definitely don't see any coldness at all. I only wish we were on the same server... haha.
#45 Oct 13 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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It is a bit tricky to tell which atma to use on a job like SMN.

The 10 MP per tick atma is like a given, just to remove the need for resting.

But many others seem like fine second choices. Personally I want atma of ruin since the 50 dex is just so good for a melee SMN. Better chance for spirit taker to crit is also wonderful (though you hardly need it with all that refresh around). The ice, wind, thunder, fire potency atmas can also be useful for BPs or spirits. (Yea, spirits are always useless, but it doesn't mean you can have fun with them!)

Still need to actually test things more throughly. Would be silly to use atmas that don't do the right things.
#46 Oct 13 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Mellowy wrote:
It is a bit tricky to tell which atma to use on a job like SMN.

The 10 MP per tick atma is like a given, just to remove the need for resting.

But many others seem like fine second choices. Personally I want atma of ruin since the 50 dex is just so good for a melee SMN. Better chance for spirit taker to crit is also wonderful (though you hardly need it with all that refresh around). The ice, wind, thunder, fire potency atmas can also be useful for BPs or spirits. (Yea, spirits are always useless, but it doesn't mean you can have fun with them!)

Still need to actually test things more throughly. Would be silly to use atmas that don't do the right things.


Spirit Taker can't crit naturally, since it doesn't have "Chance of Critical Hit" in its description. All the +Dex and +Crit hit rate in the world won't cause you to get a critical hit on Spirit Taker. Only way to get it to crit is Sneak Attack or Mighty Strikes.
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#47 Oct 13 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I agree, the INT thing is worth some testing.
Annalise wrote:
In the meantime, I think I'll work on a shiva -perp staff (sitting on a slime trial right now...)

I know exactly the trial you are talking about! Not the first slime trial in one of four weathers, but the one further down that's slimes in ice weather only? I've heard Lv13-16ish level sync in Ranguemont Pass is ideal for that trial. I'm not looking forward to it myself...

Annalise wrote:
I definitely don't see any coldness at all. I only wish we were on the same server... haha.

True dat! We need more super SMNs on Asura! Me, Enil, and Rakshaka all Asuran now. (Acturus quit unfortunately.) Join the party!
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#48 Oct 13 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Sasaraixx wrote:
SyncTheTempest wrote:
It's actually not to hard to get if you don't mind shouting/risking your luck. Solo'd the T2 pop. Duo'd the T3 pop (could be solo'd easily though.) Then shouted for some 14 odd people. Hit !! pretty early and decimated it. Just watch out for the babies and make sure people don't nuke the element it's absorbing and it's not too hard.

Also got Atma of Gales during said shout. 40 wind MAB and wind acc. Would be nice if I had Wind Blade meritted. :\


Thanks for the info. Any tips if I try to solo the T2 and T3 pops myself? :)


The T1 > T2 pop is simple. Any job can solo those just pop with a pet out/stoneskin and you're good.

The T2>3 pop is a little harder as he'll kill your pets easier. But kite him around the martello near conflux 5 (He pops nearish there) I used levi for the one hit BP. Don't remember what HS produced in terms of damage. But simple kite solo.

Only cockblock is the change rates. Took me like 5 t1's and 3 t2's and I got lucky :\
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#49 Oct 15 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the tip!


I just got my Caller's Pendant a couple of hours ago and I went to Abyssea Vunkerl to test it out on murex. I noticed something very strange. My Heavenly Strikes seemed to crit occasionally. I know that shouldn't be possible. Usually they would do between 2000-2300 damage, depending on how much TP Shiva had. Occasionally, the pact would do 3000-3300 damage. I couldn't attribute it to the TP Bonus on Caller's Spats +1 as there were times when a freshly summoned Shiva would hit for the 3k+ amount. It wasn't iceday nor was there ice weather. I was using the Baying Moon and Minikin atmas. The only thing I can thing of is that some piece of gear I was wearing or one of the atmas has a hidden Magic Crit Rate trait on it. That or Murex will randomly take more damage. Anyone have any thoughts? My usual MATK gear set is:

Shareeravdi +1
Marduks Tiara, Eidolon Pendant, Smn Earring
RR w/ MAB+7, Smn's bracers, Evoker's Ring
Astute Cape, Smn belt, Caller's spats +1, Caller's Pigaches +1


Also, this was just eyeballing (so take it with a grain of salt) but I did seem to nice that INT had an effect on HS. My XBOX froze while I was in Abyssea and when I returned I had lost all of my Cruor Buffs. Before I had to restart my lowest HS numbers (minus resists) were just a little over 2000. When I came back in with no buffs that dropped to 1900ish and i saw more 2900ish "crits" as well. I get +25 on my stats with the abyssites I have. Again, it was by no means a test but it did catch my eye. I had to run to get ready for lunch but when I go back I'll play around with Shiva's INT to see if it really does have an effect.
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#50 Oct 15 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting info Sas, the higher damage thing is very odd. Curious to see what comes of that, because that's a serious chunk of damage being added.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is that I picked up Razed Ruins yesterday and tried it a little bit. I only really had a chance to fight one NM, Keesha Poppo, but what I saw was much less consistent than the boosts provided by Stout Arm.

Using Stout Arm (STR+50, Attack+40, R.Attack+40) against NMs, I generally saw damage in the 1500-1800 range, very consistent, very rarely outside that range (maybe one out of 15).

Using Razed Ruins (DEX+50, Crit+ Major, Crit Dmg+ Major) against Keesha, I was seeing much more variance. My lows were in the 900-1400 range, which is much closer to what I would expect to see on NMs without atma. However, my highs were well into the mid-high 2000's. I did one for 2872, and two others that were over 2500 out of about 15 BPs total.

So the potential is definitely there, but I'm surprised at the wild variation. It seems the crit damage boost is having a huge effect, and the DEX & crit rate improvements are not making as big of a difference? That's my guess anyway. It could turn out that Keesha just has particularly high evasion or something, but the little testing I did so far seems to indicate Razed Ruins leads to better spike damage while Stout Arm leads to better consistent damage.

That being said... it's going to be really hard to resist just picking both of these and skipping Minikin altogether. I can't remember the last time I used Convert in Abyssea... so MP doesn't seem to be that big of a problem. More testing to come...
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#51 Oct 15 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the numbers Perg. I was in a party last night and a SMN friend was also testing out Raized Ruin while we were killing bats during a TE run. He didn't seem all that impressed and went back to using Heavenly Strike. I think for that atma to truly shine it needs to be paired with an atma like Stout Arm. If you have plenty of refresh and plan on using physical pacts, that makes the most sense to me.

Just a quick follow up on my earlier post, the crits I was getting have to be attributed to one of those atmas. I've been killing bats for Shiva's -perp staff and I have not seen anything close to the spikes in damage I saw this morning. A LS friend also mentioned that he had heard some BLMs noticing more mag crit spikes while having atmas equipped, but he couldnt remember if it was the ones I was using. Hopefully I'll get into a party later tonight or in the morning to run some more tests. If it wasn't just some random glitch then the thought of those 3k+ crits I was doing earlier along with an extra 30 MAB from atma of the beyond is simply mind boggling. I think I'll be farming a Hadal Satiator pop this weekend!
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