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#52 Oct 15 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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Well if that's true then it must've been Atma of the Baying Moon. I've done plenty of merit pacts with Minikin infused and seen nothing like that.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:57pm by Pergatory
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#53 Oct 16 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
Well if that's true then it must've been Atma of the Baying Moon. I've done plenty of merit pacts with Minikin infused and seen nothing like that.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:57pm by Pergatory


I believe you are right and my gut tells me that the crit effect is tied to the moon phase. I did a party earlier this morning and I only got 1 crit in a few hours. Yesterday I got more than a handful in a couple of hours when the moon was waxing.
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#54 Oct 18 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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So I finally got a chance to combine Stout Arm + Razed Ruins for some testing. First thing I have to say is that I did not miss Minikin at all. Between Refresh, Siphon, and HP/MP cruor buffs, I used Convert maybe three or four times in a 4-hour run.

Anyway, as for the results... I was astounded. We were in Abyssea Vunkerl farming seals. The main NMs we fought were Gnawtooth Gary, Seps, Pascerpot, Armillaria, and Iku-Turso (all pop NMs). I used Predator Claws the whole afternoon for a nice baseline. What I found was that Pred Claws low-range damage was in the 2000-2800s, and high-range damage was in the 3300-3800s. Yes you read that correctly: 3500+ damage against NMs using Pred Claws. These were not rare either, not like the high-range you're used to seeing on Pred Claws. About one out of three was over the 3000 damage range. I only saw one or two in the 1000-1800 range, I think both were against Gary and it may have been due to Garuda being blinded by Dust Cloud, and three duds (two of which were caused by Seps' AOE Flash move).

I think I'll be doing Stout Arm + Razed Ruins together from now on for SMN, unless I'm trying to solo and really need that Minikin, or have a really good reason to use magic BPs. If there's a regular opportunity to release & Siphon, and especially if Converting is safe, then Minikin isn't really needed.
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#55 Oct 18 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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ignore, I didn't see page 2.

Edited, Oct 18th 2010 4:30pm by Ahrana
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#56 Oct 18 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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got 2nd lunar abyssite and I was toying around with Minikin/Beyond setup... I was able to leave my Shiva out fulltime, and was doing 1.5-3.5k per Heavenly Strike. The 3.5k was on a mesa wivre in koschtat, and I was avg'ing 2.1k on Kukulkan. On Turul, I was only doing about 1.4k compared to the ~900dmg Predator Claws..


I think I like magic build still more than melee build :\
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#57 Oct 19 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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SakkaofValefor wrote:
I think I like magic build still more than melee build :\

That's cuz you need better melee atma :) Sounds like you're doing pretty good damage though, and I'm sure it's all situational. If you can average over 2k, it shouldn't be too far from the damage I'm doing with Pred Claws, but I think it's worth having both options available. I can't wait to get some nice MAB atma for stuff where magic damage is better, but I think I'll continue using the physical ones most of the time just because I've always preferred physical over magical on SMN.

Did Braireus yesterday and with an alliance of 18 I probably did 30% of the total damage. Every single Pred Claws pulled hate until Garuda died, anywhere from 1.7k damage up to 3k (on a zone boss!). I did Ovni as well, and every single one did over 3k to him. Knocked off 6% per BP. Carabosse is the only NM so far that I haven't been able to break the 3k mark on... she was taking 900-1800's. She's a tough cookie. According to wiki, she has -50% on both physical & magical damage taken, so I don't think merit pacts would work any better on her really.
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#58 Oct 20 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
SakkaofValefor wrote:
I think I like magic build still more than melee build :\

That's cuz you need better melee atma :) Sounds like you're doing pretty good damage though, and I'm sure it's all situational. If you can average over 2k, it shouldn't be too far from the damage I'm doing with Pred Claws, but I think it's worth having both options available. I can't wait to get some nice MAB atma for stuff where magic damage is better, but I think I'll continue using the physical ones most of the time just because I've always preferred physical over magical on SMN.

Did Braireus yesterday and with an alliance of 18 I probably did 30% of the total damage. Every single Pred Claws pulled hate until Garuda died, anywhere from 1.7k damage up to 3k (on a zone boss!). I did Ovni as well, and every single one did over 3k to him. Knocked off 6% per BP. Carabosse is the only NM so far that I haven't been able to break the 3k mark on... she was taking 900-1800's. She's a tough cookie. According to wiki, she has -50% on both physical & magical damage taken, so I don't think merit pacts would work any better on her really.



Hmm, if you were using a 5/5 Heavenly Strike with Atma of the Beyond and Atma of the Baying Moon, I don't know if you'd necessarily be saying that :) But you are right in that it is going to be situational. I fought Briareus and Carabosse this morning and magical pacts were a definite no-no. HS isn't going to do less than 2k for me on anything unless it has a native -MDT trait or is resistant to ice. You can hit 3k damage on it, but Predator Claws can surpass that on crits. Merit pacts are easier to deal with during kited fights, but Garuda can save that TP to heal herself. It's just really situational.

Full disclosure: Shiva has always been my favorite summon in FF games, so I admit my bias :) There are some other interesting magic atma combos out there for the other avatars as well. It's nice to have as much in your ******* as possible to adapt to what you are fighting.

Question for you though. With the RR Atma, have you noticed the DEX boost improving Garuda's accuracy at all?
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#59 Oct 21 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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Sasaraixx wrote:
Hmm, if you were using a 5/5 Heavenly Strike with Atma of the Beyond and Atma of the Baying Moon, I don't know if you'd necessarily be saying that :)

You're probably right

Sasaraixx wrote:
Question for you though. With the RR Atma, have you noticed the DEX boost improving Garuda's accuracy at all?

Yes, significantly. She very rarely misses her melee swings now. It's worth noting that Pred Claws accuracy for me has always been very high to begin with, so I didn't notice any accuracy improvement there. If there was one, it was overshadowed by the difference made by the crit modifiers. It's the critical aspect of Pred Claws that makes it so wildly varying, not the fact that she's missing swings. When you see a 300 damage Pred Claws, it could be that all 3 hits landed but none of them were crit. After seeing how effective Razed Ruins is, I'm actually debating switching from my Atk+15 Redingote to my Summoner's Doublet for Pred Claws.
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#60 Oct 21 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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I think I read somewhere on BG that crit+% is not as noticeable as straight up DEX/ATK/Whatever with the razed ruins atma.
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#61 Oct 21 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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SakkaofValefor wrote:
I think I read somewhere on BG that crit+% is not as noticeable as straight up DEX/ATK/Whatever with the razed ruins atma.

In my experience, and that of the DDs in my LS, the crit+% is the most noticeable part of Razed Ruins by far. I don't know how much of the crit rate increase was from DEX compared to how much was from the actual crit rate +%, but I used it on DRK the other day and was literally doing a crit about every third swing on DRK/SAM. I have 4 crit merits but normally my crit rate is closer to the 10% mark (never actually parsed it, just a gut feel). I peg the crit rate bonus to be somewhere around the +20~25% mark. The way I see it, the improvement in crit rate is THE reason to use Razed Ruins. DEX & Crit Dmg Bonus are just gravy.
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#62 Oct 21 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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I mean crit%+ on gear isn't as noticeable as, say, DEX/STR/ATK/Whatever when using razed ruins
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#63 Oct 22 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Oh I see what you meant, yeah that makes sense I guess for DDs. They don't all use crit WS, in which case the crit+% would only affect their melee attacks. Even those that do use crit WS, crits probably don't have as big of an impact as they do on Pred Claws. For Pred Claws specifically though, I think the crit+% is by far the most important benefit from Razed Ruins, as well as any crit+% you can get anywhere else. However, for the same reasons that BG said it's not that big of a deal, it probably isn't as important for other BPs like Spinning Dive which aren't critical damage.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 11:27am by Pergatory
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#64 Oct 22 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty sure NONE of the BPs actually say critical damage. So levi might be critting just as much as garuda, except you have 3 times as many chances on garuda to effect damage.
#65 Oct 22 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
All of the physical bloodpacts are capable of dealing critical damage even though they don't say it in the description for the bloodpact. That's why before the Royal Redingote came out, Summoner's Doublet was a great piece to throw in for the bloodpacts damage wise.
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#66 Oct 23 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
When you see a 300 damage Pred Claws, it could be that all 3 hits landed but none of them were crit. After seeing how effective Razed Ruins is, I'm actually debating switching from my Atk+15 Redingote to my Summoner's Doublet for Pred Claws.


I think the biggest case for this, the 300 damage, is that the first hit missed and 1-2 of the other hits landed. Keg's testing (seen here) had suggested that the first hit of the multi hit 70 bloodpacts is the strongest, and that the subsequent hits are weaker (but do also add to damage of course, especially in critical hits). Any physical bloodpact can critical though. I've seen it many times with tail whip and double slap in the lower levels...where they do ~50-100% more damage than they have been doing (like tail whip going from ~180-200 to the random 350). I've seen it with spinning dive on imps also (where at 75 I would use either garuda or levi on them.)

Quote:
Oh I see what you meant, yeah that makes sense I guess for DDs. They don't all use crit WS, in which case the crit+% would only affect their melee attacks. Even those that do use crit WS, crits probably don't have as big of an impact as they do on Pred Claws. For Pred Claws specifically though, I think the crit+% is by far the most important benefit from Razed Ruins, as well as any crit+% you can get anywhere else. However, for the same reasons that BG said it's not that big of a deal, it probably isn't as important for other BPs like Spinning Dive which aren't critical damage.


It's a little more complicated with avatar's over melees, too (which I'm quite sure you know). It's not like we can throw vulcan rings, triumph earrings, sea gorgets, ares' body, and cuch mantles on them or anything...or even critical hit merits. So really with the limited amount of gear we have that even affects our bloodpacts, atmas are like the biggest impact we can have on our avatars. The other thing that comes into my head now though is the Atma of the Azure sky. I heard someone say it's -10 second bloodpact timer and goes past the -15 cap (so -25, though I don't have it so I cannot verify). In that case, you'd have to wonder what's going to win out in the long run, though. Atma of the beyond + azure sky (mab+30 ice+30 bp timer-10) or atma of the beyond + baying moon (mab+60 ice+30). Bloodpacting ~28% more often if you ride the timer for less damage, or bloodpacting with a little more MAB. I -think- atma of beyond and azure sky would win over baying moon and beyond -slightly-, but I'd really have to do some math there...


Quote:
All of the physical bloodpacts are capable of dealing critical damage even though they don't say it in the description for the bloodpact. That's why before the Royal Redingote came out, Summoner's Doublet was a great piece to throw in for the bloodpacts damage wise.


I definitely agree with the doublet, I use it for all my physical bps and wish I had the +1 relic (I only have +1 gloves). On my Redingote I took -2 perp and 7mab/matt with magic merits and 5/5 wind/heavenly for keeping out a free garuda to build tp at 75 and wind blade on higher defense stuff... Now abyssea changes things a bit... but I'll likely just keep my redingote as is until the AF3 body comes out. If it has some nice -perp on it (since I never got around to trying to synth a penance robe with my leather) I'll definitely redo my redingote.
#67 Oct 24 2010 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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Just finished the Atma of Beyond/Atma of Baying Moon combo tonight.

Shiva, 5/5 Heavenly Strike, 5/5 M. Attack merits, Royal Redingote with +7 MAB, Caller's Sash, etc.,

3230 dmg on a Plateau Hare. Yeah, a bunny, but it's almost 4AM and I'm sleepy. Popped the Brooder very quickly and did a 2074 Strike before I high-tailed it out of there because I didn't have the alertness to solo it.

More testing to come.
#74 Oct 24 2010 at 5:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lucky 7 post I see.



I'm a bit split on attack still for avatars. I was using the attack:superior Baying Moon and can't say I saw ANY improvement in BP damage on +2 NMs. I was doing about 600-900 damage predator claws. With lucky hits of 1500.

I'd almost dare say the STR bonus is what effects the damage with atmas. Which would be consistent with how merits and crimson howl and gear never seem to make that much a difference in the attack department.

It would be interesting to try and mix two STR atmas for physical BPs, but I doubt it would ever beat the crit rate atma.
#75 Oct 24 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd almost dare say the STR bonus is what effects the damage with atmas. Which would be consistent with how merits and crimson howl and gear never seem to make that much a difference in the attack department.


I most definitely agree that the STR bonus is going to make a big difference in the damage, especially since there is such a huge multiplier. I think the big thing to consider here, though, is that avatars cap out around 4.0 pdif, whereas a lot of players cap out much lower (ie 2.0 pdif for one handed weapons). Thus, it takes a **** of a lot more attack to cap out your pdiff on summoner than it does on a melee job, and you have access to FAR less options than a melee job does. As you are well aware, the highest damage of bloodpacts is on squishier stuff where you have a capped or closer to capped pdif, and the same can be seen with their basic melee hits too.

Thinking about it.... +15 attack on royal redingote, +15 attack from merits, +50 attack from stout arm (potentially +70 if they also gain 20 attack from 40 str, but we are unsure of that) is +80 attack. Can add in things like karura hachigane if garuda, and the relic feet add a bit of attack (keg testing showing that it's really not that much unfortunately). Also, the fay crozier or better yet, the fire magian staff with pet attack on it. Crimson howl is a little limited compared to things like beserk, minuet, etc, being less than 9% of a boost. Crimson howl boosts 400 attack by just under 36, and berserk by 100 respectively.

But considering 80 attack... a melee, if their attack is high enough, gets 85 attack from using a yellow curry bun alone (in a party of 4 or more...) and a little bit of strength. Add in to that things like Amemet mantle/Foragers, Jewelry with attack (like aesir ear), ammo like bomb core/fire bomblet, etc and they have a LOT more attack that they can strap on. Also add into it chaos roll, and minuet... because no one is probably going to use Beast Roll for our avatar. The amount of attack that they can strap on is enormous compared to the limited resources summoner has.

Also... I have yet to confirm if cruor buffs work on pets yet. I'll have to run in as 37 pup and get buffs, and see if they add to my automaton as well. If they add to my precious Koumei, I'm sure they will add to my precious Shiva and Garuda as well. But if they don't work on pets, that's another attack bonus that melee will have over our avatars...

But yeah... I think all three of the factors work to increase the damage a lot. I think STR pushes the potential damage way higher (obvious), critical hits from razed ruin not only have a greater impact because critical hits are enhanced further, critical hits serve to increase pdif. Attack will greatly increase the damage by raising pdif.

But considering that two decent +str atmas (eve and briareus) likely DOUBLE the base strength of the avatar, that's pretty huge.

Upping the critical hit rate by a huge amount, and increased the damage done, is going to boost up pdif a lot.

Giving an Avatar +150 attack, which you can't even get that much from atmas (and would need some gear), isn't even going to double the attack that they have when compared to strength. Going strictly for attack will yield the poorest results because you aren't getting the most "bang for your buck" persay.

So yeah... you have it right. STR and critical hit are the best you can likely use physical bloodpacts. I don't think though that the problem with attack is that it doesn't do too much. I think the problem is that we just don't have enough access to it for it to truly be as successful as it is for melee jobs. I would love to see pet that we eat be used by our pets, similar to atma, but the problem there imo lies in balance. Giving an avatar a big attack boost probably wouldn't be game breaking, but giving it to beastmaster or puppetmaster may be, considering they as the master have much more use than we do for something like yellow curry.

And as a side note... I've always enjoyed your summoner passion, Mellowy
#76 Oct 24 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Been trying the Razed Ruins/Stout Arm combo and have been getting results similar to Pergatory. 1780, 3039, 3621 on Poroggo Dom Juan (yeah, lolnm but I was helping my THF friend get the squid for the Karkinos Nusku Sash NM). I use the SMN Doublet +1 macro swap for Pred Claws, along with AF2+1 feet, Sacrifice Torque, Karura Hachigane, AF leg, etc. The optimal phys setup has a huge damage variance, whereas the Baying Moon/Beyond Atma combo for Heavenly Strike is much more consistently 2000-3000 dmg. It will really just depend on my mood on the day and what we are fighting. I didn't try using Heavenly Strike on Poroggo because they have high INT and are magic resistant.

On Turul, Razed Ruins/Stout Arm-infused Pred Claws got 2720 as a high. I was taking off 4-5% of its HP every 45 seconds.

In any event, moral of the story, SMN is a beast in Abyssea with Razed Ruins/Stout Arm for phys and Beyond/Baying Moon for magic BP. I don't even miss Minikin Refresh anymore with /RDM and Convert.

I'm a few missions away from finishing the Azure Sky Atma but will post findings after that.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 3:32pm by Polltergeist

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 3:38pm by Polltergeist

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 3:46pm by Polltergeist

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 3:48pm by Polltergeist
#77 Oct 25 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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By the way, this thread mentioned that Cruor buffs don't apply to pets but I have no way to personally confirm at the moment. I can ask my PUP friends later.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=8&mid=128682027323978321&howmany=50
#78 Oct 25 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
All of the physical bloodpacts are capable of dealing critical damage even though they don't say it in the description for the bloodpact. That's why before the Royal Redingote came out, Summoner's Doublet was a great piece to throw in for the bloodpacts damage wise.

I never knew that, might have to give Rush another try with Stout Arm + Razed Ruins. All those buffs could potentially turn the tables in its favor.

Also, I agree in respect to the STR vs Attack thing. I've been stacking on attack for a long time and never very impressed by the boost it gives. I continue to do it anyway, but I think it's the STR that is making a big difference from Stout Arm, not so much the attack. In fact, most of the benefit comes from Razed Ruins. Stout Arm is just my next best DD atma. Voracious Violet might actually end up being better than Stout Arm for our purposes, even though double attack doesn't really give us much.

Also as a side note... I think Garuda's been spending too much time in Abyssea and her atma is becoming permanent. I've started seeing a few really large Pred Claws numbers outside of Abyssea now. For example, I did ACP7 yesterday and did several over 2k damage, on the Orc I did one in the 2680 range. Never seen Pred Claws that high on anything remotely difficult before Abyssea came along...
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#79 Oct 25 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Also as a side note... I think Garuda's been spending too much time in Abyssea and her atma is becoming permanent. I've started seeing a few really large Pred Claws numbers outside of Abyssea now. For example, I did ACP7 yesterday and did several over 2k damage, on the Orc I did one in the 2680 range. Never seen Pred Claws that high on anything remotely difficult before Abyssea came along...


My Garuda did like 3k on a lizard in kuftal tunnel helping someone doing trials... granted, an easy prey lizard is a **** of a lot easier than the beastmen in the fei yin fight... but I am not used to seeing 3,000 on easy prey mobs with predator claws. I'd expect seeing that on like... a goldfish. Her damage definitely has gone up substantially. I've seen ~2500 on stuff like bugbears in Newton Movalpolas (I was 80 I think, last update) and Ameretats in Bhaflau helping someone with dagger trials. I almost one shotted the one, went from 100% to like 5 or 10%...

But I definitely agree with you that the damage is definitely higher now. And obviously it makes sense one will say since we're a higher level but... yeah. They may have even cranked it up a bit anyways because I remember they said they changed some of the old pacts or something, didn't they?

Just wait til we start breaking 4k... =)
#80 Oct 27 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Annalise wrote:
They may have even cranked it up a bit anyways because I remember they said they changed some of the old pacts or something, didn't they?

Well, they did say they made some changes to the summoning skill equation so that it counts not skill over cap, but just skill in general. So yeah they obviously tweaked the Blood Pacts somehow. It definitely does seem like it's gotten stronger than expected from a mere 10 levels increase.

Annalise wrote:
Just wait til we start breaking 4k... =)

Already have, just not outside Abyssea :) My highest so far was something like 4146, I think it was on the rabbits near Gnawtooth Gary. I've done several over the 4k mark.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:34am by Pergatory
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#81 Oct 27 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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My highest is a 5.5k Heavenly Strike magic burst on Minax Bugard with only 35% TP. Easily would have broke 6k if I had let it build TP

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:31pm by SakkaofValefor
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#82 Oct 27 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Already have, just not outside Abyssea :) My highest so far was something like 4146, I think it was on the rabbits near Gnawtooth Gary. I've done several over the 4k mark.


Hehe yeah I meant 4k outside. But that's pretty ****. I need razed ruin still...
#83 Oct 28 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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@Pergatory:

When using RR/VV (or whatever atmas you use), are you able to do a bloodpact every 45 seconds, regardless of the fights duration? When I use MinikinMonstrosity/Beyond, I typically have Shiva out full time and I am able to use Heavenly Strike every 45 seconds. I'm sure there would be a big damage difference if you had to take time in between bloodpacts, even if it is 5-10seconds, even larger on the long fights.

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#84 Oct 28 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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SakkaofValefor wrote:
When using RR/VV (or whatever atmas you use), are you able to do a bloodpact every 45 seconds, regardless of the fights duration?

Yes, easily. In fact you could say it's more than once every 45 secs because not only do I Pred Claws the second that it's up, I also use Whispering Wind quite a bit these days. Whispering Wind rocks if you aren't using your TP on Rage BPs. (Maybe it even rocks if you are!) I tend to leave her out full time as well.

Even doing this for hours on end in light-farming parties where there's literally never a moment where I don't have something to BP, I only Convert maybe once every 20 minutes. Siphon is so big now (418 MP and still rising as I'm not quite capped skill) that between that and Refresh I almost break even.

This is with fairly standard perpetuation gear, too. I don't have magian perp staves, I don't have Caller's Horn +1, Augur's Brais, or Caller's Pigaches +2. Don't have a perp -2 body like ACP or Penance. I could drop perp another 7 points right there, although I think the avatar would be free long before that. Throw a BRD or COR at me, and I'll forget I have Convert.
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#85 Oct 29 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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It definitely does seem like it's gotten stronger than expected from a mere 10 levels increase.


I did a lot of research into avatar's physical damage and the level increases really do affect the damage that much. As noted by many others on this forum, Attack+ doesn't really help as I showed in my LJ, and STR+ is bloody awesome. My tests were conducted prior to Abyssea, and I said that the only reasonable way to increase physicial BP damage is by increasing STR, which happens when you level up. Therefore, the only worthwhile way to increase damage is STR/Levelling. Critical hits give a straight +1.0 pDIF which will affect damage greatly as well since your total damage prior to pDIF calculations is high. As Annalise said, the first hit is the big one, the others do not have the massive multiplier, so getting criticals on anything but the first hit won't result in massive damage.

As for DEX contributing more to the critical hit rate than the actual critical hit rate modifier itself on Razing Ruins, I am unsure as I did no testing on such things. I suspect that the rate will have a bigger effect since Avatars are treated as BLMs, and as such have little to no DEX. That being said, DEX contributions give an exponential increase to a cap of 20% for players. That is to say, putting on a small amount of DEX will have no significant effect on critical hit rate (akin to 1 DEX ~= 0.2% critical hit rate) but putting on a large amount of DEX will have a significant effect (akin to 1 DEX ~= 1% critical hit rate). This occurs because comparing dDEX/rate on a graph follows an exponential curve. If avatars follow the same pattern, then depending on the target, DEX may have a pretty substantial effect if you can break to the top of the curve.

tl;dr - To improve physical damage: STR+, LvUP+, CritRate+


Edited, Oct 29th 2010 12:43pm by kegsay
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#86 Oct 29 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
tl;dr - To improve physical damage: STR+, LvUP+, CritRate+


I'm just completely confused with avatars. Did a test run with 2 superior STR atmas. My predator claws were 900. This was on crawlers at vunkerln (also did 80 or 630 garlands bliss on them, why the big variation, I have no clue. It was not coccoon which one could expect)
#87 Oct 31 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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479 posts
Pergatory wrote:
Well if that's true then it must've been Atma of the Baying Moon. I've done plenty of merit pacts with Minikin infused and seen nothing like that.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:57pm by Pergatory


Just recently read somewhere that Murex take more damage when they are casting spells. If that is true, that may explain the spikes in damage that I saw. I will play around with some other mobs in Abyssea this week.
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#88 Nov 01 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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255 posts
Pergatory wrote:

Even doing this for hours on end in light-farming parties where there's literally never a moment where I don't have something to BP, I only Convert maybe once every 20 minutes. Siphon is so big now (418 MP and still rising as I'm not quite capped skill) that between that and Refresh I almost break even.


How are you getting 418 Siphons btw? I am capped skill and pretty well-geared on SMN skill but I only reach 383 max. Do you have Augur's Jaseran and specced Tatsumaki for Siphon (this would get me to 413)? Now that Tatsumaki has been rendered obsolete for my WHM due to Orison Pantaloons needing to be on when Cure cast lands, I might respec it for SMN.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 10:59am by Polltergeist

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 11:00am by Polltergeist
#89 Nov 01 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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On another note, I have now come fully around to the physical side of Avatar BP like Pergatory. As a norm, I infuse RR/VV, and only infuse Beyond/Baying if I know I will be fighting something specifically kited or highly susceptible to nukes over phys. (It is so easy just to head back to the Infusionist and purge/re-infuse.) Phys just wins out too much considering the lower MP cost and the fact that even on zone bosses I can pull out 2500+ numbers. (I was taking 4-5% HP off Amhuluk at a time last night.) On regular mobs, damage of 3000-4000 can happen fairly frequently.

Everyone in my LS requests my SMN for Abyssea stuff now. It is truly satisfying to see SMN come back out on top in the "new endgame."

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 11:09am by Polltergeist
#90 Nov 01 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Polltergeist wrote:
How are you getting 418 Siphons btw? I am capped skill and pretty well-geared on SMN skill but I only reach 383 max. Do you have Augur's Jaseran and specced Tatsumaki for Siphon (this would get me to 413)? Now that Tatsumaki has been rendered obsolete for my WHM due to Orison Pantaloons needing to be on when Cure cast lands, I might respec it for SMN.

Don't have the Tatsumaki for Siphon, but I have just about everything else. I did just recently cap my skill. I'm actually up to 421 siphon now. I have 8/8 summoning skill merits, and here is my Siphon set:
Bahamut's Staff
Vox Grip
White Tathlum
Marduk's Tiara
Caller's Pendant
Death Earring (ACP7, no smn skill)
Loquacious Earring
Augur's Jaseran
Summoner's Bracers +1
Bifrost Ring
Evoker's Ring
Astute Cape
Summoning Belt
Marduk's Shalwar
Caller's Pigaches +1

Total skill: 324+16+70 = 410 skill plus the bonus from Caller's Pigaches +1.

It should be possible to get another 10 skill (2 from Caller's Horn +2, 5 from Mythic Pole from ANNM, and 3 from Summoning Earring). Also, if I used Tatusmaki instead of Marduk Shalwar, it should add another 15 points. So that should give a theoretical max Siphon of 446 right now.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 11:43am by Pergatory
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#91 Nov 01 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: i c wut u did thar.

Still missing Aptus Earring, SMN skill +3. I believe I saw it posted on Killing Ifrit.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 2:46pm by SakkaofValefor
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#92 Nov 01 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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4,213 posts
SakkaofValefor wrote:
2 more skill from af3+2 head.

also 3 skill from aptus earring

Yeah I was adding the AF3+2 head just as you were posting that. Didn't know you can get 3 skill from that earring. So I guess the max now is actually 449.

*EDIT: Just for fun, there are 90 ticks in 5 minutes, so this works out to almost exactly 5 MP per tick if used every 5 minutes on the dot.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 11:47am by Pergatory
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#93 Nov 01 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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nice SMN skill set..
I really need to get down to focusing on recapping my SMN skill, although I mostly just let it slide and hope it just procs on a random event I bring my SMN as.

slight correction tho..
5 minutes is 100 tics, since 1 tic is 3 seconds, and 1 minute has 20 tics.

edit: so it works out to be aboue 4.4 mp/tic. I don't think theres been a precedent of anything give 0.x MP tho.. but thats theoretically what you're getting.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 5:00pm by spirasg
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#94 Nov 01 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:

Vox Grip
Augur's Jaseran
Summoner's Bracers +1
Caller's Pigaches +1



Ok these are the differences in our sets causing that 27 MP difference. I have the capped skill, 8/8 merits, and the other equipment on your list that has + skill. I had forgotten about the Pigaches +1 "Enhances Siphon" effect. Thanks.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 5:02pm by Polltergeist
#95 Nov 02 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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4,213 posts
spirasg wrote:
nice SMN skill set..
I really need to get down to focusing on recapping my SMN skill, although I mostly just let it slide and hope it just procs on a random event I bring my SMN as.

slight correction tho..
5 minutes is 100 tics, since 1 tic is 3 seconds, and 1 minute has 20 tics.

edit: so it works out to be aboue 4.4 mp/tic. I don't think theres been a precedent of anything give 0.x MP tho.. but thats theoretically what you're getting.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 5:00pm by spirasg

Thanks :) I just capped mine through events as well, it goes up pretty fast in Abyssea. Summoner rocks Abyssea hard too, so you shouldn't have any trouble getting some action.

However, I believe my initial number was correct. I'm almost positive a tick is actually 3.33 seconds (3 ticks per 10 seconds).

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:54am by Pergatory
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#96 Nov 02 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
However, I believe my initial number was correct. I'm almost positive a tick is actually 3.33 seconds (3 ticks per 10 seconds).


Refresh 1 is 50 ticks of 3 mp, for a total gain of 150 mp, over 150 seconds. 150/5 => 3.

You may be thinking of hMP vs refresh while resting? I know refresh counts as 3.3 hMP when resting per 1 refresh. 10 seconds /tick after the initial 20 second rest. So a 1/tick refresh body (if you don't feel like changing to seer's tunic every hMP tic) beats seer's tunic because the 3.3 mp beats 1 mp over ten seconds. You obviously know this, but I'm thinking that's maybe where you got the 3.3 from?
#97 Nov 09 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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So, since this kind of became a "how awesome SMNs are with Atmas" thread...

I'm convinced. Time to bring my SMN back into the spotlight. Got a pop ready for Hadal Saditor, and I want that Atma. How did you all manage to bring him down? Also, I need to merit Shiva's Heavenly Strike now...need to say goodbye to either Wind Blade or Geocrush lol.

Been trying to work on a pop set for EE as well, but the chests aren't being kind to me in the highlands. Can't get one of the Destiny abyssites for the life of me either (that **** shiny limule in the canyon is never up I swear). And I still don't know how I'm gonna get my hands on Razed Ruins...
#98 Nov 10 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So, since this kind of became a "how awesome SMNs are with Atmas" thread...

I'm convinced. Time to bring my SMN back into the spotlight. Got a pop ready for Hadal Saditor, and I want that Atma. How did you all manage to bring him down? Also, I need to merit Shiva's Heavenly Strike now...need to say goodbye to either Wind Blade or Geocrush lol.

Been trying to work on a pop set for EE as well, but the chests aren't being kind to me in the highlands. Can't get one of the Destiny abyssites for the life of me either (that **** shiny limule in the canyon is never up I swear). And I still don't know how I'm gonna get my hands on Razed Ruins...


Had like... 15 people for Hadal Satiator. We originally were going to have someone kite the babies... But I think your best bet is to just have the DDs break off and kill them (because our kiter died...) Not saying they cannot be kited or anything, but our DDs killed em pretty easy. I was on smn/whm (I prefer /rdm but with good -perp and 2x refresh atma I can main heal AND smn full time avatar out bloodpact spam hah) and Garuda could tank one easy. After procing the !! we took it down.

And as it stands... I'd get rid of geocrush because garuda is just... ****. Stun is nice and all but now if you really wanted a stun you could Razed Ruins + Stout Arm + Chaotic strike (when you get razed). Granted though Geocrush is much easier to connect on something being kited...

Eve wasn't that bad. We kited her around the mountain at conflux five. Granted you say your problem is completeling the pop... but yeah. With some competent people it's not too bad. One thing I love is paralyna -> sacrifice -> silena (if silena needed) on anyone who gets hit with bad breath. I hope white mages realize how awesome sacrifice is for bad breath... especially if you sacrifice the same status ailments onto you, so you can -na them off when you're done sacrificing people.

Razed Ruins was kind of a pain... getting the stupid thing to trigger. I was on whm/sch and was healing/seraph strike/earth crusher/sunburst. Eve's atma helped me a lot though getting tp for that. But yeah... it's best to follow it around and wait for someone to cast stun on it when you're trying to use a tp move on it. When it gets stunned, use your ws. Since every attack it does counts as a tp move... it's a pain. Can maybe get it with a shout, it's a VERY popular atma.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 6:28pm by Annalise
#99 Nov 12 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
AlternativeOne wrote:
Had this for a couple weeks now and i still havent quite figured out the weather effect. Its seems sometime the element and avatar doesnt matter. Then there are times when im cerian the weather is having no effect on my perp cost. Unless im using the matching element. Whats been you alls experience with it?
Example yesterday i was killing hippos with a friend and had 4mp refresh during thunder weather with fenrir ,favor ,and yama's +1. Water weather in sea serpant grotto didnt have this same effect and i only saw - perp when my laten ring was active.

Could be im just missing something maybe i need to test more... idk


It's going to be a weather effect of the same element as the avatar itself. The text is identical to the Summoner's Horn relic piece, which only kicks in if there is a weather effect present that's of the same element as the avatar. Shiva would need ice weather, Ramuh would need thunderstorms, etc.

For your example with Fenrir and the Hippogryphs, could you give us more details? If you could give like a full list of details (your gear, your subjob, any latents active, any buffs you had on, etc).



Ok, sorry i haven't replied sooner but i figured it out. It was the laten refresh from Sigil combined with the effect of my conjurors ring.
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#100 Nov 15 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks to a lot of awesome people on Bismarck, I now have VV and Beyond Atmas, and a lot more that I originally wasn't going for! Just gotta get Razed Ruins...

Who knew my simple shout for Hadal Satiator would lead to me getting the Atmas from Turul, Rasvonik, Hadal, Kulkulan, and EE all in one day? The fights were really entertaining as well, easily the most fun I've had on this game in a long time.
#101 Nov 16 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I got my Razed Ruin and Beyond Atmas this weekend! I was quite the happy Taru. I got to play around a bit with them and I see what all the fuss was about! I'm not ready to say that I'm on team physical BP's yet but they were far and away better on the tough bosses I fought over the weekend. We did a few Carabosse and Turul's over the weekend and Predator Claws and Chaotic Strike (I think people forget how powerful a pact it is too) were just stupendous - 2500+ on both of them.

Obviously on anything resistant to physical damage you'll want to go with nukes, but on some of the weaker NMs I've found Shiva to be reliably strong. I was killing the T1 VNM in Attohwa and I started off using Garuda. She would occasionally throw up huge numbers but she would also have some lower damage. Aside from 1 half resist in hours of killing, Shiva never did less than 3000 damage and seemed to cap around 3700. Garuda obviously has higher damage potential but I like the consistency of HS and it's ranged nature. It's also nice when you are soloing and need refresh. None of the refresh atmas enhance our physical side. One of those would be nice, as would an atma that increases MAB and Mag Crit Hit Rate.

I'm happy to have both and I think it's important not to neglect either one or the other.
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