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Carbie Kiting: What am I doing wrong?Follow

#1 Jan 07 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, so I got SMN to 53 and decided to try out carbie kiting mobs in Garliage Citadel, mainly Hellmite bombs.

I got the first bomb to blow up no problem... in like 20 sec. But after that one, not a single one has blown up on its own. I've actually killed 2 of them by throwing enough carbuncle's after them. A few others I'd kite for 5-10 min straight before carbie stops being able to get hate. I don't do anything other than summon Carbuncle anywhere near the mobs, and that's only because if I go further out of range and it blows itself up I get 0 xp for it.

So, my question is, what am I doing wrong?

I buff up (Stoneskin (from titan), blink, prot, shell, barfira, then I summon carbie, and send him at a hellmite (in the room with the skeletons). I then run to the entrance of that tunnel, wait for carbie to die, resummon, then start running away toworads the tunnel that has all the weapon type mobs. I resummon, run a bit further into the tunnel, and wait for carbie to die, resummon, and here is usually where I start having problems with Carbie. He refuses to hit the bombs, and they ignore carbie and only focus on me, so I end up running away for a good min from where the pots are all the way to the other side of garliage citadel, and carbie STILL doesn't have hate... so... what am I doing wrong? Constructive critisim is appreciated. :)
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#2 Jan 07 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Chances are, after the first summon or two, you were still close enough in range that when you finished summoning Carbuncle while within the hate range of the bomb. You can actually be further out of range then you'd think and still gain exp should it blow up, but if you can see the mob before/by the time you're finishing casting, or can hear the battle music, then you're borderline too close, and you risk drawing hate from the summon. It's a tricky process to get used to at the start, but with enough practice it ends up being really easy to do.

As for the bombs not blowing up that you mentioned at the start, that's really just the luck of the draw when it comes to the mob's TP ability choice. For a Bomb it's a 50/50 chance that it'll blow itself up when it uses a TP move, when it's a Snoll it's only a 1/4 chance, and most Bomb types tend to favor Berserk over Self Destruct.
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#3 Jan 08 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Good
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One thing I learned during my bomb solos: if the bomb blows up and you are out of exp range, you can run back into range and still get the exp if you do it fast enough.

Several times when soloing at the top of the mountain, I would just see a semi-beaten Carby run back to me, and I'd quickly run towards where he was fighting the bomb to suddenly recieve the exp. And a few times, if I wasn't fast enough, I missed out on it.

Just something to keep in mind.
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#4 Jan 08 2010 at 3:30 AM Rating: Decent
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having done this from 53 - 75
thought i'd throw my 2 cents in..
carbys health bar is the marker for where the ideal distance to resummon is,
just run until the very moment his health bar vanishes.. and dont go any further. this will stop you from being too far away from the monster for your avatar to auto aggro.
(i've noticed that avatar auto aggro has a range which is less than a monster needs to stay aggroed on you, which is why your carbys were not auto attacking the bomb)
hope that made ANY sense
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#5 Jan 08 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Regarding 50/50 chance, I'm pretty sure they nerfed it in the old days to be less chance to blow up just to stop people from constantly dying to bomb explosions. Might have just been the damage formula that got changed though. Just remember they adjusted bombs to not have adventurers constantly die to them if they ever tried to kill them.
#6 Jan 08 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Rostofff wrote:
i've noticed that avatar auto aggro has a range which is less than a monster needs to stay aggroed on you, which is why your carbys were not auto attacking the bomb

Not true. There is no limit to the range of avatar auto-attack. If Carby doesn't auto-attack, you've already lost hate and the mob has probably already de-popped (or someone else is on top of the hate list, not you).

Vlor is correct, you are too close to the bomb when you finish resummoning. That's what will cause the bomb to ignore Carby and come straight for you if Carby misses his first swing. In order to not get any hate when resummoning, you need to finish casting the spell before the bomb gets within 30 yalms of you. If you finish casting with him closer than 30 yalms, you will get a finite amount of hate from it, and the next few resummons (usually 3 or 4) will be a lot harder until your hate levels off again. A good point of reference (assuming you're kiting in a straight line) is to run to the point where Carby's HP bar is no longer visible, then go about 5 more steps beyond that. You're still within exp range, and should have no trouble resummoning in time. If there are a lot of bends and corners you go around, you can get away with resummoning a lot closer, but keep in mind that you must finish casting with the bomb 30 yalms away or more 'as the crow flies'.

Edited, Jan 8th 2010 4:38pm by Pergatory
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#7 Jan 09 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Not true. There is no limit to the range of avatar auto-attack.


Sorry, I have to over-turn that. Simple test in most any area can easily prove that there -is- a limit. Just get any monster, and if you run far enough (must be in the region of 200"+) when you summon the avatar, it will be facing you and not move. After a few seconds (longer than normal delay/lag) it will then focus on the monster.

Tested and took a video if you really continue to dispute it on a Marid in Wajaom.

Quote:
He refuses to hit the bombs, and they ignore carbie and only focus on me


This is a common problem when you get hate of any sort. This can be gained from getting attacked (hit miss blinked 0 damage all count) or by being merely hit from an AoE move (not a problem on the bombs since they kill themselves).

Occasionally the real problem is that you've summoned too close to the monster, but for bombs (which run at +0%) the odds are if you summon too close, you'll get whacked and then it'll be an attacked issue. It's important to trail behind your avatar before hate is re-focuses. If you do it all correctly, it shouldn't matter if Carbuncle misses or hits, the bomb will ALWAYS be focuses on him. You can use that to see when you are doing right, and when you are doing it wrong.

Other than that, you're doing everything else fine, consider looking at Spira's summoning guide on KI.



Edited, Jan 9th 2010 8:19am by kegsay
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#8 Jan 10 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with Rostofff/Kegsay. Though I have never tested the distance, there have in fact been a few times where I'd recast Carby just to have him sit there and look at me for a few seconds before the mob got close enough for him to aggro it.
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#9 Jan 11 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Yea, carby only defend within a certain range. Which is a shame since else it would have been a fool proof aggro detector. Now you only know if you have aggro close.

I still don't get why some mobs have super tracking skills though. I've had that darn chigoe NM lose track of me plenty of times, which is annoying. I've had aggro chigoes and trees lose track of me, which was great. I've had thunder elementals stalking me to the end of time. Also had Yagudo stalk me the same distance, though that is an older and different zone experience.
#10 Jan 11 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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kegsay wrote:
Sorry, I have to over-turn that. Simple test in most any area can easily prove that there -is- a limit. Just get any monster, and if you run far enough (must be in the region of 200"+) when you summon the avatar, it will be facing you and not move. After a few seconds (longer than normal delay/lag) it will then focus on the monster.

Interesting, this must've been a recent fix then. It used to be that if the monster was outside that range, Carby would warp to it. I had this happen sometimes when I would be running around with Gaiters and Carby out, he'd get soooo far behind and then I'd aggro something and he'd simply pop on top of the mob and hit it. There used to be no maximum range for auto-attack, could be 3 maps away on Ifrit's Cauldron.
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#11 Jan 12 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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it seems the OPs main problem is likely the distance from the mob at which you recast.

The Carby HP bar is a good indicator of distance (it marks around 30') but that is not enough. Usually once you see Carby's HP bar disappear, you can still afford to take another 10 steps directly away from the bomb. You will still be in EXP range. I dont know the exact distance since you can't test it solo, but EXP has a guesstimate range of maybe 40+', so you have to really be pretty far to get out of range.

Another thing to note is that the arcana aggro radius is possibly around 20+', and this is an absolute distance if you draw a straight line between you and the mob, so take this into consideration if your kite path is windy, in such a way that there may be greater travelling distance between you and the mob, but the straight-line distance may still be within aggro range, causing you to get hate from the mob.
That said, this applies less to GC and more to Ifrits Cauldron or Ule
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#12 Jan 20 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks all for the input! I think you're right that I need to take a few more steps. I'll try that the next time I'm on SMN and have nothing to do. :)

Thanks for all the helpful insight into SMN!
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