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One of 'those' smns.....Follow

#1 Dec 16 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, I'm certainly one of 'those' smns. The ones who are leveling in Kor. Tunnel without knowing a single thing about the job. I originally intended just to use it to help others level, but its getting to the point to where I need to equip it. I just don't have the inventory space or available T1 merit points to fully develop smn, but rather than be totally gimp I figured I'd at least ask how to be respectable with what I already have.



I have several 'main' jobs and when I leveled other jobs just to be more well rounded in events and asked 'how can I make this work w/o putting a ton of gil/time into equipping a job I will rarely play?' the response was, as you can imagine, a bit harsh. I understand that nobody wants someone to come into a job forum and essentially ask 'how can I half-ass this?'. But even though my gear will never be ideal, I do want to understand the concepts that make it work. There are several places I will want to use gear from other jobs for inventory reasons, so sticky suggestions are not always relevant etc. So if someone could just give me a bit of direction that would help. Below is what I'd like to use. If there are easily obtainable substitutes that would be better please let me know. Also, if my reasoning for equipping a certain piece is bad, please let me know as well.


Standing set: I would imagine a standing set for smn would be similar to blm/brd/etc: terra staff, cheviot cape (although I may full time gigant to keep hp bonus?), jelly ring, merman's ring, ethereal ear, +movement shantotto pants, marduk body, etc?



BP rage set:
fey staff with -BP timer
axe grip (hp)
Phantom tathlum (don't really want to afford HH bomb. any alternatives?)
Auster's hat (-1 BP)
Smn torque (+7 skill)
Stoic and Pigeon Earrings (hp)
Auster's Body (-3 BP)
Auster's Hands (-1 BP)
Evoker's Ring (+10 skill)
BQR Ring (hp)
Gigant Mantle (hp)
Hierarch Belt (mp)
AF legs (+avatar acc)
Nashira feet (+5 skill)

The likelihood of me doing dynamis again is slim. I do solo limbus from time to time for af items, but don't know if smn is on my usual track.



BP ward set: It is my understanding that I should shoot for +30 skill to make ward last 3 min? Are there any other stats that boost ward?

Auster's hat (2)
Smn torque (7)
Evoker's Ring (10)
Auster's hands (2)
Nashira feet (5)
Marduk legs (5)
total (31)

Fill in the rest with hp/mp and -BP time?

Thanks for all feedback.



edit: spell


Edited, Dec 16th 2009 10:32am by BarberofSeville
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#2 Dec 16 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Figure out what you intend on using it for if you want to half-ass it.

For solo I strongly suggest going for as much -perp you can.

For HNM I suggest you focus on +MP and +skill and whatever avatar acc/att you can find.

For parties (lol!) I'd suggest going for the +30 skill for your wards, and possibly go for -perp so you can keep favors out.

-BP is a very minor stat to care about, since all it does is boost killing speed, which almost always is too slow so people use other jobs anyway. It is amazing for career SMNs though, but if you are going to use it rarely it won't matter.
#3 Dec 16 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Correct, +30 skill is the number to shoot for in regard to Wards. That'll extend your 90-second BPs to 3 minutes (the maximum). In terms of gear, most of SMN's desirable equipment is Ex. So it's not so much an issue of money, but of time. If you don't plan to do Dynamis, you'll be missing out on a bunch of really great equipment from there. Limbus also has a fair bit of good stuff.

Really there are 3 main sets for SMN:

Perpetuation Down (your standing set without an avatar can be different, or it can just be the same as with an avatar)

BP (stats that make your BPs stronger, such as BP timer, smn skill, pet accuracy, etc.)

Rest

These are the 3 main sets. You can also get more specialized, and do things like a BP timer reduction set. So you'd swap to the timer reduction set, then trigger BP, then swap to your BP power set before the BP actually lands. You can also create different BP sets for your Wards, physical Rages, and magical Rages. It all comes down to how much effort you want into it. I'd recommend at least doing the basic 3, though, even if you don't take SMN very seriously. Looks like you have the BP set, and I'm assuming you probably have a resting set since it looks like you may have BLM leveled, so I'd suggest working on your standing/perpetuation set. Fay Crozier is a good first step, try to get one with perp-3 and maybe some other good stats. Evoker's Pigaches +1 are another piece you should try for, as it's not very hard to get if you do Limbus already. Also, Yinyang Robe is pretty easy to get, so consider looking into one of those. I wouldn't worry about making a strong damage reduction standing set. SMNs don't pull hate. Worry more about squeezing every drop out of your avatar because they are pretty weak and you really gotta work 'em hard.
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#4 Dec 16 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Mellowy wrote:
For parties (lol!) I'd suggest going for the +30 skill for your wards


Of course, that's based on having capped skill. Being a Korroloka Summoner, he'll probably have 60+ job levels worth of skill to catch up on before any skill+ gear would be effective. That means wards will have the absolute minimum duration, and effects granted from Avatar's Favor (lol) will have absolute minimum potency.
#5 Dec 16 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the tips. I know there must be a touch of resentment for people who use a cheap method to hit 75 when many people here must have spent months (or years) to hit 75. I also reckon the lack of playtime getting to 75 probably leads to some pretty bad representations of smns overall.


I don't have any misplaced assumptions that I would be able to replace a career smn in situations where they excel. But I've leveled a ton of jobs, merited them all out, and spent years equipping them. I'm just far too lazy to do that again so want to equip the best I can with what I have. I imagine I'll max avatar acc/att and that will be it for merits.


There are certain situations (most recently the ASA final battle) where having multiple smns would have turned a challenging fight into a cakewalk. Having that possibility in a linkshell as small as mine certainly would make things more simple.


I got subdefaulted (and appear to be on my way there again!) back when I started when I was one of the first to ask advice on the mini-fork battles when every other smn had to use carby only into the 60's. Now the stigma from obtained summons this way is no longer there. Perhaps one day this will be the case with astral burning but I doubt it.
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#6 Dec 16 2009 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thanks for the tips. I know there must be a touch of resentment for people who use a cheap method to hit 75 when many people here must have spent months (or years) to hit 75. I also reckon the lack of playtime getting to 75 probably leads to some pretty bad representations of smns overall.


Don't worry. Even though people spam SMN to 75 in the tunnel all the time, there are only ever like 5 75 SMN online at once due to the job being considered useless.

The good part with SMN is that the damage difference between a poor SMN and a good SMN is minimal, so you need to parse to even notice it. Well, good if you aren't career SMN.
#7 Dec 17 2009 at 1:11 AM Rating: Decent
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BarberofSeville wrote:

BP ward set: It is my understanding that I should shoot for +30 skill to make ward last 3 min? Are there any other stats that boost ward?

Auster's hat (2)
Smn torque (7)
Evoker's Ring (10)
Auster's hands (2)
Nashira feet (5)
Marduk legs (5)
total (31)


For the head piece, the following is probably better for BP: Ward
Elite Beret (4)

This is cheaper (unless you want the +1, which is nice, but more expensive)
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#8 Dec 17 2009 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Toioiz wrote:
BarberofSeville wrote:

BP ward set: It is my understanding that I should shoot for +30 skill to make ward last 3 min? Are there any other stats that boost ward?

Auster's hat (2)
Smn torque (7)
Evoker's Ring (10)
Auster's hands (2)
Nashira feet (5)
Marduk legs (5)
total (31)


For the head piece, the following is probably better for BP: Ward
Elite Beret (4)

This is cheaper (unless you want the +1, which is nice, but more expensive)


Even better yet, forget the Austere Hat, forget the Elite Beret, get Evoker's Horn. 5 Summoning Magic, 20 MP, and all for the low, low price of free.

To add more to the discussion, get your AF legs and AF head at the VERY minimum. The legs add +14 accuracy to your blood pacts, which will beat out any other leg piece. The horn gives us the second biggest boost to summoning magic in the game, only losing to Marduk's Tiara. If you do Limbus, I would also recommend getting the AF feet so you can +1 them. The quests are not that time consuming, especially if you have the warps to the protocrystals.

If you've got the Marduk body that is fine for idle/Carbuncle, although I do advocate the use of the Yinyang Robe just for the BP Delay -5, but as was stated, you can get away with that, especially if you use the Austere Body for BP Delay -X.

Also, get your carbuncle mitts. These are a staple of every summoner's arsenal because it makes refresh carbuncle incredibly easy. Takes a little bit more work, but the fight is a trigger fight and the NM is easy to kill, plus comes with a 100% drop rate on them.

Um... aside from that I can't really think of anything else to add that you said you didn't wanna go after. Maybe Karura Hachigane if you wanna mess around with ZNMs, if you ever do dynamis get the relic hands ASAP. Everything else are small upgrades that I wouldn't worry about unless you were trying to go balls out on summoner.

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#9 Dec 17 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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FartaruOnSeraph wrote:
Toioiz wrote:
BarberofSeville wrote:

BP ward set: It is my understanding that I should shoot for +30 skill to make ward last 3 min? Are there any other stats that boost ward?

Auster's hat (2)
Smn torque (7)
Evoker's Ring (10)
Auster's hands (2)
Nashira feet (5)
Marduk legs (5)
total (31)


For the head piece, the following is probably better for BP: Ward
Elite Beret (4)

This is cheaper (unless you want the +1, which is nice, but more expensive)


Even better yet, forget the Austere Hat, forget the Elite Beret, get Evoker's Horn. 5 Summoning Magic, 20 MP, and all for the low, low price of free.

To add more to the discussion, get your AF legs and AF head at the VERY minimum. The legs add +14 accuracy to your blood pacts, which will beat out any other leg piece. The horn gives us the second biggest boost to summoning magic in the game, only losing to Marduk's Tiara. If you do Limbus, I would also recommend getting the AF feet so you can +1 them. The quests are not that time consuming, especially if you have the warps to the protocrystals.

If you've got the Marduk body that is fine for idle/Carbuncle, although I do advocate the use of the Yinyang Robe just for the BP Delay -5, but as was stated, you can get away with that, especially if you use the Austere Body for BP Delay -X.

Also, get your carbuncle mitts. These are a staple of every summoner's arsenal because it makes refresh carbuncle incredibly easy. Takes a little bit more work, but the fight is a trigger fight and the NM is easy to kill, plus comes with a 100% drop rate on them.

Um... aside from that I can't really think of anything else to add that you said you didn't wanna go after. Maybe Karura Hachigane if you wanna mess around with ZNMs, if you ever do dynamis get the relic hands ASAP. Everything else are small upgrades that I wouldn't worry about unless you were trying to go balls out on summoner.



They are free... except for the dignity lost by wearing a dildo on your head. I would rather sacrafice the 20 MP for my elite beret +1 which also has +5 summoning skill :)
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#10 Dec 17 2009 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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i have 5 sets of gear:

1)perp- gear
2) BP timer down gear
3) BP gear (full acc-att-smn skill)
4) smn skill gear to boost favors
5) carby kiting set with alot of enmity down for me without losing the auto-refresh (yyr and no enmity down for carby)
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#11 Dec 17 2009 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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By the sound of it, you would also have a lot to gain from ACP7. You can get some really sweet pet pieces from it, on top of some really amazing earrings for other jobs. Definitely a huge boost to having a ton of jobs is that you have much better odds of getting something you want from the fight.

I'm confused why your BP set has so much HP in it. You could also consider a conjurer's ring, which would drop your perp cost another point and be pretty easy to activate (at least on a taru it's like shifting 150 hp, which gigant and -hp/mp rings nearly do alone). They're cheap and there really isn't anything else a SMN can gain from a 2nd ring.

Fortune egg gives me more MP than phantom tathlum, though max mp doesn't really matter that much in small doses.
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#12 Dec 17 2009 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Could add a 6th set to that, RandamantisRagnarok.

Stoneskin setup.

Personally, I had a capped-stoneskin setup for SMN for the rare cases that I was /whm.


Noticed you could add a 7th.... hMP setup..
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#13 Dec 18 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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although paying 400k to have an item less useful than a free item is kinda like having a dildo on your head anyway lol
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#14 Dec 18 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
Really there are 3 main sets for SMN:

Perpetuation Down (your standing set without an avatar can be different, or it can just be the same as with an avatar)

BP (stats that make your BPs stronger, such as BP timer, smn skill, pet accuracy, etc.)

Rest

I would seperate BP into BP:Rage/Ward and BP Timer for 4 main sets. Even without Windower or Spellcast, it's almost trivial to equip and use both sets for a single BP. No reason to make concessions for not using them as seperate sets.

Quote:
They are free... except for the dignity lost by wearing a dildo on your head.

What kind of person would use a spike for that.
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#15 Dec 18 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Default
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I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't want a horn on their SMN. It is the trademark design. There is a reason you are supposed to laugh at the line in FFX that says "We'll make a statue of you Yuna. With a great horn!" from the blue animal guys with horns.
#16 Dec 18 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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jlejeune wrote:
Pergatory wrote:
Really there are 3 main sets for SMN:

Perpetuation Down (your standing set without an avatar can be different, or it can just be the same as with an avatar)

BP (stats that make your BPs stronger, such as BP timer, smn skill, pet accuracy, etc.)

Rest

I would seperate BP into BP:Rage/Ward and BP Timer for 4 main sets. Even without Windower or Spellcast, it's almost trivial to equip and use both sets for a single BP. No reason to make concessions for not using them as seperate sets.

Read further down the same post you quoted :) I suggested the same. In fact, I suggested you can even go further: Separate sets for physical rages & magical rages. This didn't used to be true, but lately there are a lot of items that can enhance pet m.acc & m.atk, so we can use different sets depending on the type of damage we're dealing.

However, the three sets I listed above are really in my opinion the absolute bare minimum. If this person doesn't do Dynamis then their BP timer set won't be that great, nor will it likely be very different from their Rage/Ward sets (except maybe swapping from Austere Hat to Evoker Horn). So they can likely get by with just the one BP set, but you're right that there's no reason to stop there and most SMNs can and should do better.
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#17 Dec 18 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did read the whole post. I was mostly saying the bare minimum should be four sets, not three.

As an aside, I honestly can't imagine a SMN not wanting Relic though.
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#18 Dec 18 2009 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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jlejeune wrote:
I did read the whole post. I was mostly saying the bare minimum should be four sets, not three.

In general, yes. I'd agree.

jlejeune wrote:
As an aside, I honestly can't imagine a SMN not wanting Relic though.

BarberofSeville wrote:
The likelihood of me doing dynamis again is slim.

This singular remark was the main reason I omitted a BP timer set from my "must have" list for this person. Without relic gear, the only swap he's very likely to do for BP timer is Austere Hat (which changes to Evoker's Horn mid-BP). Anything else that reduces BP timer will likely stay on for the BP itself. There are exceptions, of course... maybe he builds a SMN ACP body, in which case he'd have to do that... However, ultimately, this person is unlikely to see much benefit from it.

I will concur though, that they should do it nonetheless even if it only gives them benefit from 1 more piece. The BP timer is the keystone of the SMN job and just about everything we do (or more importantly, can't do) revolves around it.
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#19 Dec 19 2009 at 3:22 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I will concur though, that they should do it nonetheless even if it only gives them benefit from 1 more piece. The BP timer is the keystone of the SMN job and just about everything we do (or more importantly, can't do) revolves around it.


BP timers worth varies depending on pacts. Lowering it for the endgame rages is not as important as for the low level ones. Which is ironic considering you won't get -BP timer until endgame.

The reason is that your BPs cost MP, so you never really need to be able to use more MP on pacts than you can regain in the same time. Siphon has slightly nudged this balance since it used to be about 200 MP return in resting 50 seconds and you would be wasting roughly 200 MP on BP+release. I.e. anything over -10 BP timer were going to meet its limit sooner or later and have you lose your shaved off seconds due to lack of MP.

Of course refresh also played some role, but you are talking to the person who played SMN for 3 years and never got a refresh support since I had auto-refresh trait. (And since we had to put in all the awesome melee so we could spare 2 slots of mages)

I have played 6 years though, but lately it has not been much and occasionally I've gotten refresh!

Well, the point I'm trying to make is that -BP timer is not always needed, it depends on your MP regeneration.
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