Favors testFollow

You're getting 3? I'm getting only 2. I got no gear on 10 perpet. bt remember we have auto refresh.

It took a minute if not less to get full favor effect, just wanted to add that in. I'm doing Diabolos now and I got the full MP rather quickly.



Edited, Nov 9th 2009 3:48pm by Unclear

Oh good point. I was naked and just used raw 13 MP per tick in my thinking. I'll change it to 2, and go be grumpy.

Alas poor carby, I knew you well.

YY robe, Evokers Ring, Carby Mitts and HQ apollo staff = 3 mp a tick

1 mp a tick with Avatar's Favor.

Try using Conjurer's Ring or Evoker's Feet +1 and you'll get that free Carbuncle.

Pretty sure the point is that it should already be free, but now carby mitts aren't working anymore.

In the past though I've never had to. I've always used the 4 pieces with the rest of my gear being MP boosters and would always get +1 a tic with carbuncle out.

Uh oh, Carby Mitts are broke.

Carby is probably thinking "what is this I don't even"

So the favor is over doing the mitts? Need to let S.E. know..while you're at it get 'em to add a bit more -perpet..oh well one thing at a time.

Some Favors are based on Smn skill, calculated immediately, not when favor was activated or pet was summoned. As tested by Mr. Muted. See Sui's post on BG for the tests.

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 9:58pm by Gerkin

does anyone know if ifrit's favor is working as its supposed to be? The effect seems very subtle for the bonus it should be giving.

I really have been wanting to ask if it's working for anyone else, because if its broken or not working we need to send reports of this to the suggestion box and GM's right away while they are still fixing errors and glitches this week. If we wait too long to report something like that we may be SOL on getting it fixed. I've been hearing mixed reviews that its not working and that it is. Maybe it simply gives a DA increase if you already have the DA trait. It seems like its doing a lot when i have my brutal earring on, but I haven't had a chance to test it on any actual melee yet. trying to sample DA on summoner using staff is not the best way to see the results.

has anyone ACTUALLY hada chance to function with favors though?
i know i havent touched it more than 3 times maybe, and never been asked.

also .. diabolos providing refresh for a tank is tricky, most of the time as summoner i am staying back from AOE's but if i want refresh on my self which would be essential from diabolos then i need to be standing with the PLD and avatar

It wouldn't be unbalanced in the least. SE is going to have to take another swing at this. It has potential but for now it's just too limiting.

At a bare minimum, the range needs to be increased drastically. Since we are only able to keep one of these wards up at a time, we need to be able to hit as many people as possible. Personally, I would just automatically grant the favor to everyone in party, but if we are going to maintain the aura effect, the range should be increased so that mages can stay out of aoe range but still receive the favor from a meleeing avatar.

Secondly, the favor should not be reset every time the summoner uses an ability. I think that only rage pacts should reset the favor.

Give the avatars the favor benefit! Make it a trait.

The JA should be a stance that reduces perp cost and grants the favor from the avatar to party members but at a cost to the avatar. I'd increase the -perp in the stance to -4 but triple the BP rage timer as well as lower the damage, HP an DEF of the avatar. The potency should be a little less than a perfect roll. This would keep the stance from making SMN solo too powerful but would allow summoners to be more effective as a support role in parties.

Outside of the stance, the avatars can still give a weakened favor (less than a lucky roll) to party members and would all be slightly buffed in different ways, but would not have their perp cost reduced.

After all that is said on these boards, I'm pretty sure people these days don't use any job not doing at least 2k damage per minute. Considering my SMN tend to top out at about 900 on things that aren't weak like pots, I'd guess we wouldn't even be desired if we had favors ADD 100% damage.

Of course SMN isn't all about damage... but when was the last time we got a Ward update that didn't suck?

For the record I've played very little lately, but I haven't used favors ONCE during these few occasions. Partly because I even forget they exist since the difference is so small.

So far, I only have 2 uses for favors. The first is to reduce the perp cost on Fenrir while farming low-level mobs. The second is for Carby's regen effect after I've taken damage while farming low-level mobs, since I'm usually /thf. Beyond that, I'm as unimpressed with the ability now as I was when SE first announced it.

Except -4 perp or -2 perp makes no difference on Fenrir, so everything we can solo today, would be the same with -4 perp, thus no extra restrictions are needed (unless you think SMN TODAY is overpowered solo)

They do less damage than Fenrir or Garuda. Basically you are calling it overpowering to lower your DoT.



Who apart from doing more damage than carby makes no difference. Again, in this case you call it overpowering if you can raise your DoT.

I mean, what do you call a WAR buying a new weapon? If he buys a weaker weapon, he is overpowered. If he buys a stronger weapon, he is overpowered? Because whatever he buys, he will be doing the same thing he did with his old weapon. Just at a slightly different level (either worse or better).

Unless we suddenly change a lot, I can't see how we'd even get close to overpowered. Sure, I choose SMN for killing DC mobs, because it is good at it. But you won't see me calling the job overpowered because I can solo small time mobs better than on my COR.

Well, it is certainly obvious something need to change. A global recast on things costing a fortune that give no noticable result just screams "emergency update", except it has gone 6 years and SE haven't done anything of that kind.

Imagine the same situation for DNC. 1 min global recast on waltzes/jigs/steps/flourishes and then a cost of about 35 TP for each. Great since it leaves you with more TP to WS, terrible since it means you aren't really doing anything another melee isn't already.

It just doesn't work. Not even SMN works currently, but it at least can crawl forward at a slow steady pace with being hate free and having a pet as well as MP to cure for.

Except free avatars doesn't matter. I've had free Carby since 2004. Possible free fenrir and garuda since a year. What difference will making more avatars free do?

Free avatars mean nothing for balance. And if they did, then we needed a nerf 2003 when carby mitts were added.



Seriously. 3 MP per tick and Nether Blast and something that soak up your damage is hardly something that needs a nerf to balance it out. Take a RDM with bind/sleep, aero III or whatever their highest nuke is and refresh and you have the same thing. Do you think RDM needs a nerf while having refresh and sleep active? Perhaps -25% magic damage so their tier III nukes won't ruin the game?

You need to compare the job to other jobs when you talk balance.



Neither are you.



Did you read math in school?

Predator claws 164 MP.
Net gain from refresh 20 MP per minute.
Time needed for a predator claw = over 8 minutes.

Net gain from Siphon is about 300 MP per 5 minutes.
Time needed for a predator claw = less than 3 minutes.

Are you willing to say that Siphon update made SMN overpowered? Because it is basically TRIPLE the amount of predator claws compared to having a free avatar with auto-refresh active.

You are sitting there saying 300 MP + 100 MP = 400 MP is overpowered and 300 MP was not overpowered. In other words, you have alone decided that some kind of balance barrier lies between 300 MP per 5 min and 400 MP per 5 min.

Queue RDM comparison. 5 min with 3 MP per tick = 300 MP. Add for point of fun an auto-refresh piece and you have 400 MP. TADA! RDM is overpowered if they can wear auto-refresh items. Too bad RDM can wear TWO of them, and with that becomes SUPER OVERPOWERED and makes SMN able to have any amount of free pets they want until RDM is nerfed.

You just don't get it. Of course there is a difference, but not about WHAT we can do, just HOW we do it.

There are only 3 things that can stop me from soloing it.

1. No kite path
2. Regen larger than damage from carby
3. Kills carby in 2-4 hits

So you get your free Diabolos with 4 MP per tick refresh, what does it change? Not 1, not 3, but it will help on 2. Now list every single NM with high regen and you'll see the list of what changes for SMN solo.

And yes, I hoover in default land because I spot tiny differences, while most others just see black and white and rate down everything that isn't black and white.



I drew parallels to a massively nerfed RDM though. One who can't cast haste, cure III, dia, slow, paralyze, etc. Though I guess you think a RDM who can't cast all that is also overpowered? I mean, refresh + tier III + sleep/bind + stoneskin or whatever I wrote surely is all you need to become brokenly good.



What exactly are you fighting though? If it is a NM, you WON'T be standing in aura range. There went your refresh, which apparently was broken. There went your argument that you can do something different than with carby.

Is it not a NM? Ok, then your choice is predator claws for 1k damage for 170 MP or 500 damage for 110 MP. Even with 40 MP gain per minute, your loss at choosing diabolos over garuda is 60 MP per min and BP. Add -BP gear and it becomes 30 MP gain and 60 MP loss. Diabolos would lose in MP over time.

Now your hypothetical situation would be overpowered. A place where a solo SMN can find a NM that can't kill Diabolos for several minutes of fighting and you constantly fire off Nether Blasts and use Sihpon without summoning a spirit.




Btw, since it is your claim that it is overpowered, the burden of proof is on your end. Show me a real NM and real location where you'd go from "impossible to kill" to "possible to kill" by just having more MP.

Bonus points if it is a NM no other job can solo.

I have been reading and writing in this thread and in another thread titled "What part of SMN makes you think 'healer'."

Well, I have been noticing how my replies to either topic boiled down to almost the same thing. My only real 'issue' I have with the SMN is the insanely small buff range of favors. It makes Diabolos downright impractical to use if one wants to maintain it's refresh effect.

But perhaps the thing is, that refresh effect was MEANT to have such a short area of effect. As in, perhaps that refresh was meant mainly for the melée, while Diabolos joins the fight with melée swings and occasional blasts. For jobs like DRG/WHM, BLUs and DRKs. Or for WARs and other melée jobs finally being able to take full and continuous advantage of the rune weapons. Of course, it all ends up for the playerbase itself to help SMN come around to where everyone wants it to be.

The more I think about what could be improved on SMN, the more I 'discover' justifying whatever it is that I 'may' have an issue with.

While the other thread focused more on the SMNs unfortunate unpopularity, both threads share ways in which you could 'improve' the SMN job. As 'unpopular' the SMN job is, I will love my SMN until the last final days of Vana'diel's existence. It will in my eyes also continue to be the most beautiful job of all.