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#27 Nov 09 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Terrible disappointment. It's annoying enough that our avatars don't get the favor effects, but they're significantly weaker when we use it? Come on.

#28 Nov 09 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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would love for someone to prove me wrong, but after 10 minutes of playing around with this ability it looks like it's time to put summoner away again for another 3 years.
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#29 Nov 09 2009 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm trying to see if this will have any positive impact on a soloing SMN.

I guess it depends on if a weakened Diabolos > Carby for kiting, seeing how you can get MP back with Diabolos now.

Other than that, meh.
#30 Nov 09 2009 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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moonica wrote:
would love for someone to prove me wrong, but after 10 minutes of playing around with this ability it looks like it's time to put summoner away again for another 3 years.


hmm, could be...

Overall, a neat little tweak, but +62 defense or refresh only when perpetuating an avatar doesn't exactly fix Summoner... especially at the cost of ~15% avatar power. Basically I get to have less perpetuation in exchange for less avatar. T _ T

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 11:14pm by KaneKitty
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#31 Nov 09 2009 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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Basically, someone said these favors will be more situational. But really, this only solves so much, we still require a refresher to make it so the perpet is 0 so we can use whatever avatar we want. I wish this ability worked as I thought it would be, and that's to fill in the gap where you can't supply perpet cost and make these pets free..and it's a fair exchange for the 15% reduction on avatar blood pacts. All i can hope is that this is anther bug.and they'll adjust it in some tomorrow with an emergency mait with the other bugs.
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#32 Nov 09 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Unclear wrote:
Basically, someone said these favors will be more situational.

I'm really disappointed with this update. It just does nothing for SMN. It has sparked some interest, yes - but in the long run, it won't boost our chances of getting party invites. Why? SE has put us in the same realm as Bards and Corsairs, but the problem is, BRD and COR can both do their jobs without downtime, and without their primary job functions being bound to something that is constantly depleting like MP. They can also put up more than one party effect at a time, and can potentially give a stronger bonus than the SMN ability does. For SMN to even be comparable to either of those two jobs, our ability would have to have a stronger effect (to compensate for only having one effect at a time), and our MP cost would have to be nil. But since that isn't the case, parties will always choose a COR or a BRD over a SMN. Even if neither of those jobs are available (for whatever reason), a party would more than likely choose another DD than a SMN. Especially since if we are in a party specifically to use Avatar's Favor, we won't be able to play the role of healer or backup healer - not with an avatar out full-time. This ability, sadly, is a joke.
#33 Nov 09 2009 at 6:59 PM Rating: Default
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Summoner never needed fixing.

A huge issue with the job is the lack of understanding in how to use bloodpacts.

The non-tiered Merit 2 magical BPs are superior to the physical bloodpacts for a vast number of things, including its pure dmg/mp ratio and most importantly high accuracy. But is rarely used to its potential because its a) not free - ie: need merits b) most SMNs fail to fully merit one ability and instead spread it over several c) lack of appreciation of the Avatar MAB gear we've been given access to this year (Redingote and Fay Staff)

Avatar's favor adds things in a group setting that can be useful. But are largely things none of the 'fix smn' threads had asked for so clearly, it's not going to 'fix' anything.

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 5:16pm by Dekusutaa
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#34 Nov 09 2009 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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I think a majority of the SMN community including myself are mainly upset with SE's mind set of "Lets beat around the bush".

Don't get me wrong Avatar Favor is a welcome change and a great idea. However, SE could have handled it much much better instead of leaving the community with a "Why" feeling.

ie: Why does avatar Favor lower our dmg ~15% when we are already 1 of the slowest DD/Support jobs in the game?

Why does avatar Favor NOT work on our avatars?

And why are Carby mitts broken!

On the plus side at least they are finally starting to realize we need more then just +mp and are adding much more gear that enhance our avatar performance.
#35 Nov 09 2009 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Carby mitts being broken will be fixed no doubt.

As for favors not working for avatars, it's a bit of a mixed blessing. MAB working on Shiva would make Heavenly Strike ungodly and make all other tier2s irrelevant, and for me personally, shifting merits to that bp, which I only unlocked but did not take up beyond lvl 1, would have been a hassle.



Edited, Nov 9th 2009 5:48pm by Dekusutaa
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#36 Nov 09 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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So, I had an opportunity to test Ifrit's favor in a "real world" setting. In this case, I was in a party with a BLU/NIN, MNK/WAR, BLM and RDM. It was the Excavation Duty assault, and all I really did was pull out Ifrit, throw out a Warcry, and use his favor the entire time.

BLU and MNK were definately reporting an increase in Double Attack, and I even did a couple of DAs as well (In a 15 minute period, I did about 3). So, Ifrit's Favor might not be borked as we originally thought, but it definately seems to be subtle. Perhaps great for NINs or /NINs or MNKs or PUPs where there's a good amount of attack rounds, but not so great for 2 handers...like SMN.
#37 Nov 09 2009 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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HalladayWeekend wrote:
I'm trying to see if this will have any positive impact on a soloing SMN.

I guess it depends on if a weakened Diabolos > Carby for kiting, seeing how you can get MP back with Diabolos now.

Other than that, meh.


Sadly, it's not going to work how you may think it will work.
Although, I cant figure out how you think it will work.

Carby kiteing works not only because Carby is free. It works because you can run far enough away so that;
A. You dont get hit while trying to re-summon
B. When you re-summon (far enough away) you dont get any Enmity.

Trying to do this with Diabolos you would need to be standing next to him in order to get refresh. Which would leave you open to AoE attacks as well.
If Diabolos was a lot (significantly) stronger then Carbuncle it could work. Stand near him, hopefully right at the end of the 10' so you could avoid AoE. Then when Diabolos is 15~20% run as fast/far as you can so that you can Re-summon without hate and interuptions.
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#38 Nov 09 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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This ability, sadly, is a joke.


I..well agree with you, they had a chance to do something amazing and just ended up ******** up. Their entire "We want smn's to keep their avatars out" can't be done if these avatars do nothing but cost mp to keep out and more mp to use pacts while we're using more MP to cure. I got on right after the update, was already outside summoned Ifrit..saw my perpet still ticking away..and instantly felt the same way.

I understand not giving shiva the 10 MAB because she would be the one to use. The others? I have no clue, i don't think it would kill if Ifrit got DA, Ramuh got critical hit rate % boost...Don't even think Titans def boost would make him into a tanking god...so I don't see how it would hurt especially if we're taking out a 15%.
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#39 Nov 09 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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If you use an offensive blood pact your Favor's Timer resets. You can test it easy with Diabolos. Summon him wait for his perp cost to decrease by 1 (your getting his refresh) then use Somnolence, Netherblast or Camisado. The refresh resets to its most base form. It does not appear to reset when you use Noctoshield or any defensive pact. Not sure about things like nightmare or ultimate terror.

Edit: It doesn't seem to reset if you have Diabolos's Favor maxed. Only if your still waiting for it to max. More testing. Wrong.

On the plus neither Nightmare or Ultimate Terror reset it.

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 7:17pm by Greenjester

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 7:29pm by Greenjester
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#40 Nov 09 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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You people would actually prefer that Shiva not get the 10 MAB just so all of the pacts can be equal?

I don't see many BLMS lobbying for every nuke to have Stone potency....
#41 Nov 09 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Well they also weakened the avatar bp damage when favour is on and according to another post, it will reset the beneficial buff to its lowest strength whenever you use an offensive BP with favour on.

So if it had applied to Shiva, you'd still be maybe nuking below normal strength.

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 8:05pm by Dekusutaa
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#42 Nov 09 2009 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hey guys I'm really happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but a free Garuda with this new ability and my NQ wind staff, relic body on windsday, af+1 feet, evoker's ring, and karura hachigane along with FoV refresh is one of the greatest things of all time.

Ok perhaps I should slow down on the memes a bit lol...
#43 Nov 09 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:
Hey guys I'm really happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but a free Garuda with this new ability and my NQ wind staff, relic body on windsday, af+1 feet, evoker's ring, and karura hachigane along with FoV refresh is one of the greatest things of all time.

Ok perhaps I should slow down on the memes a bit lol...


haha, we need more posters like you Arc.

Too many cynical people, to put it mildly. rate up.
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#44 Nov 09 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well they also weakened the avatar bp damage when favour is on and according to another post, it will reset the beneficial buff to its lowest strength whenever you use an offensive BP with favour on.

So if it had applied to Shiva, you'd still be maybe nuking below normal strength.


Right, well I guess that's part II of my disappointment. If only these buffs would have applied to the avatars, and not weakened them, this update would have been amazing.

But SE is VERY stingy about giving us ways to increase the damage of our avatars, so it makes sense that this big SMN update actually restricts the offensive output of our job.
#45 Nov 09 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly think the effect of favor resetting upon the use of a bloodpact rage is some kind of glitch, because it doesn't always happen when i've done it. If its not consistant, its probably a glitch. I wouldn't be surprised if some of what we know so far is based on glitched execution because the job and the gear that effects it has seemed to be glitched since the update this afternoon.
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#46 Nov 09 2009 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes it may be a glitch, using 'ward' effects also turns off the favor efforts for a brief period.

my perp with diabolous at full buff out went from 'free' to -5 perp to -3, to -1 then back to free in a matter of 1-2 seconds.

doing more testing on offensive bps
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#47 Nov 10 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I may have skipped by someone answering this already, but has anyone tested the favors in campaign? Do they effect all the npcs like bps? If so...sweet. I imagine you'd get quite a few curing points for having a constant regen up on every npc in range.
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#48 Nov 10 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
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HalladayWeekend wrote:
You people would actually prefer that Shiva not get the 10 MAB just so all of the pacts can be equal?

I don't see many BLMS lobbying for every nuke to have Stone potency....


What MAB? Avatars do not get the favor bonus themselves.

This is more like BLMs complaining about retrace, since it doesn't help US, but it helps others.
#49 Nov 10 2009 at 11:26 AM Rating: Default
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Theshizknight wrote:
I may have skipped by someone answering this already, but has anyone tested the favors in campaign? Do they effect all the npcs like bps? If so...sweet. I imagine you'd get quite a few curing points for having a constant regen up on every npc in range.


Only party (haven't tested alliance). No effect in campaign.
#50 Nov 10 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What MAB? Avatars do not get the favor bonus themselves.

This is more like BLMs complaining about retrace, since it doesn't help US, but it helps others.


Right, avatars don't get the bonus themselves. And more than one person has said something along the lines of "Well I'm glad that the avatars don't get the bonus, because that would make Heavenly Strike the best merit pact."
#51 Nov 10 2009 at 12:08 PM Rating: Default
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HalladayWeekend wrote:
Quote:
What MAB? Avatars do not get the favor bonus themselves.

This is more like BLMs complaining about retrace, since it doesn't help US, but it helps others.


Right, avatars don't get the bonus themselves. And more than one person has said something along the lines of "Well I'm glad that the avatars don't get the bonus, because that would make Heavenly Strike the best merit pact."


They should go look up the +Macc boots for Shiva only.
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