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#1 Oct 29 2009 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Update Augments Posted: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/index.html#shantotto

Elemental Siphon +20
Pet: Acc+7 Racc+7
Pet: Att+7 Ratt+7
Pet: Store TP+8 / subtle Blow+8
Pet: Mag Acc+7
Movement Speed +8%
Mp+25 Enm-4
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#2 Oct 29 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
Personally I am conflicted either I am going:
Elemental Siphon+ 20 & Movement speed+8
or
Elemental Siphon+ 20 & Cure Potency+5% (for smn and whm healing)

I am sort of angry though I had just gotten Oracle Pants oh well

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#3 Oct 29 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Seems... Lacking for Smn.
No one would ever take 7Acc over our AF1 pants. Even when combined with 7Att.
Store Tp... too small of an amount to make a big enough different for Merit Pacts. Subtle blow.. no one cares. Mag Acc... Not good enough unless it has Mag Att on it as well. Elemental Siphon... 15 more mp every 5 minutes... Not big enough for anyone to waste on unless Smn is their only 75. More Mp, who cares. Enmity down.. For soloing maybe, but I'd still bet that Af1 Legs will outperform for soloing. Movement speed... Avatars still can't keep up with us, Gaiters are better if you have access, and running a tiny bit faster, to me, again isn't worth wasting a possible piece for other jobs.

I really REALLY wanted to sport Dragon Pants, with my YY robe to look bad ***, but... Not gunna happen, unless they make some adjustments.

If I was a melee Smn, Dragon Pants with 3% Haste and 7Acc would be worth it, but nope.

Quite curious as to how Conserve TP will work though.

Looks like this will have to be my Homam Legs substitute.
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#4 Oct 29 2009 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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No idea what I'm going to do. As people have already said, AF pants would do better for physical BP. Magic acc might be good for HNM. But meh. For WHM the cure potency is nice, but if you're going to main the legs, you either lose -enmity, or the haste. Not to mention they wouldn't match with anything.

I'm thinking Movement +8 and Elemental Siphon+20.. haha.

Then again for WHM, could macro the pants in with cure potency and -enmity. And then I wouldn't have to look at them all the time. Could macro on SMN too!..
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#5 Oct 29 2009 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course i'll wait a few days after the update to see how the update really effects the job, but i see no reason to get ES+20 for me at least. I don't want another macro piece to carry around. I was thinking about making a good idle piece for when avatars are meleeing. STP/Subtleblow+8 and magic acc+7 might be cool, that way i could take out my magic acc merits and put them somewhere else since i have the acp body too.

I'll have to look more, but these may be going to my pup and bst. I like the look of both pants, hate the look of the heavy melee ones. Kind of sad none of these mini expansions have produced anything worthwhile for my drg. My smn and pup made out like bandits in both final mission items and augmented items from the chest in tenshodo.
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#6 Oct 29 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I'm just musing, so take it how you will.

For physical Rage pacts, Acc and Att are the obvious choices. However I don't think these will beat the 14-15 acc on our AF pants, unless you exclusively use Spinning Dive.

For magical pacts, the 7 MAcc will overcome the 5 skill for Oracle and Marduk, especially if the magic accuracy formula is anything similar to the physical. However, even at 1:.9, it's only a couple points higher. Still better, but debatable if it's worth the augment slot.

For magical pacts again, we have the unique case of trying to increase TP gain (and sometimes only TP gain). Correct me if I'm wrong, Store TP will increase TP by 8%, so every 13 (12.5) hits you get enough extra TP to match what you'd earn in a single hit, so basically a free hit every 13 hits. Using kegasy's work, we can assume that melee accuracy is 60%, 67% with relic hands. At 67%, it'll take 20 hits to connect 13 on average (x*.67=13, x=19.4). If you use AF legs instead, accuracy is 74%, and it takes 19 (x*.74=14, x=18.9). With full accuracy merits, it takes 18 hits for both sTP and AF pants to get "14 hits" worth of TP, (17.4 for sTP, 17.2 for AF legs). Long story short, even creating conditions favoring sTP, it only matches our AF for pure TP gain.

As for the misc augments, MP (while not much of a concern for SMN) is matched by Oracle legs which also give HP (a concern for most SMNs except dak the galka). Enmity is matched by Mahatma/Jets. Movement+ is beaten by Heralds, but a lot of people find that unobtainable.

So really, the useful states are Cure+, Move+ and Siphon+, with MAcc a runner up if you want absolute bleeding edge damage from magic pacts. Did I miss anything?
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#7 Oct 29 2009 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Movement+8% sounds good for those who don't have 12% from Heralds (like myself). Plus, that bonus is useful on other non-SMN jobs i.e. WHM.

Elemental Siphon +20 is somewhat underwhelming, if you manage to use ES every 5min (unlikely) that's about 0.2mp/tick.

Pet:ACC+7 as I worked out a few weeks ago, is only 1/2 as good as our AF spats, so not worth going for that.

Pet:Store TP/Subtle Blow also seems pointless and much more geared to BST.

Pet:MACC+7 seems interesting, and could be worth it if you have max merits in Merit BPs and do HNMs. MAcc functions very similar to Acc, so an increase of 7 here will see your resists cut down by around 3.5% on particularly hard monsters, nothing too amazing.

Pet:ATTK+7 seems slightly pointless, resulting in a ~0.025 increase in PDIF on a DEF300 monster (fairly reasonable assumption). Even with a high fSTR ranking, that will result in a maximum 1 damage/hit more.

What am I going to go for then? Movement and Siphon.
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#8 Oct 29 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I'm looking at Haste+Acc, which I had in mind specifically for RDM, Cure+ and Siphon+, or Siphon+ and MAcc+.

I have Oracles, so this would be roughly a 1% decrease in resists... which is barely noticeable. Especially since I primarily use physical pacts right now.

So... mini-haidate or hybrid cure/siphon? I need to see how much Cure+5% compares to Haste+3% for overall HP cured over a given time period. I know Walmart Truban handily beat the 3% on Selenian, but this is even closer. If there's not a hands down winner, looks like I'm getting mini-haidate.
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#9 Oct 29 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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Yea, I'm also unsure about what is better here.

I kind of wanted something for my melee SMN along with something for my avatar. But 14 accuracy is a bit much to toss out for something else on avatars.

I assume the 7 MND and 7 INT on the jets are better than 5% skillchain damage? (though the new pants have 2 MND and 2 INT too)
#10 Oct 29 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mellowy wrote:
I assume the 7 MND and 7 INT on the jets are better than 5% skillchain damage? (though the new pants have 2 MND and 2 INT too)
"Skillchain", not "Weapon Skill". So unless you have some crazy thing about closing pre-70 BPs with Retribution, you won't see anything. Spirit Taker doesn't skillcahin.
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#11 Oct 29 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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I was looking at this, was wondering do you think the +20 to the Siphron is just 20 more MP? or a fixed percentage? I don't know if I'd take up a spot for that. I mean the most you can put on the pants for smn magic skill is..5? ZNM / Salvage gear?

Well..guess I'll have to see how the update goes in order to decide what I'll be doing.
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#12 Oct 29 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Throw me up there in the "unsure of what to get" crowd.

However...I think I'm definitely going for +move speed, so I can say **** you to Herald's Gaiters and Tiamat lol. The 2nd bonus? Dunno...cure potency is the safe option, but I'm kinda looking at pet magic accuracy as well. Since my ACP body piece already has the pet magic attack/accuracy augment on there, getting pet magic accuracy would complement the previous augments quite nicely. As for ES+20...bah. If it was higher I'd consider it, but it's not so forget it.

Of course, this is assuming I want to make a SMN piece. Still rather torn whether to do that or make some nuking pants for SCH.
#13 Oct 29 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Default
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Movement speed is just for kiting anyway. A SMN actually walking through a dungeon with movement speed is not going to have a body guard for long.

Wish I could get pet movement speed up!
#14 Oct 29 2009 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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I'm assuming that ES+20 means 20 more MP, which if the case isn't all that exciting for me.

I dont have any Movement for SMN, but I rarely find myself in a position to need it on SMN. Getting places faster maybe, but it seems like a waste of an Aug for just running somewhere faster, so I can wait for everyone else to gather and get ready just that little bit longer...

Acc/Atk has already beed bested bu AF pants for BP and melee

Store TP and Macc might be worth it for a Merit BP build... but I think Acc+14 will beat Store TP anyway and the events I take my SMN too I find i'm using 70 BP's more then Magical ones...

So this leaves me leaning more towards getting these pants for my BLM.
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#15 Oct 29 2009 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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kegsay wrote:
Elemental Siphon +20 is somewhat underwhelming, if you manage to use ES every 5min (unlikely) that's about 0.2mp/tick.

.2mp/tic is also comparing to no pants originally.
It's even less for those of us who are already using Oracles, or Marduk.
Making the net gain only 15mp per 5 minutes, 3mp in 1 minute, or .105mp/tic. And by the looks of this update, with lowered perp cost, I see even less need for Mp than we already had. I don't really have MP issues now, lowering perp cost, will only further convince me, I don't need to care about a tiny gain on my Ele Siphon.

The Mag Acc... Someone mentioned HNM's, currently with the ACP body 7MaB/Macc I've found it extremely rare to be resisted, with 0 Macc merits. I have 5 in Patt and Matt each. So I have a hard time justifying that augment.

The only use for Smn I see, is the Ability to Run Fast with no gaiters, but personally, I've never really found it to be a need on Smn, especially if our avatars can't keep up. The only time I've 'needed' movement speed was if I'm tanking something, which I don;t do on Smn, lol.

Summoner's who solo a lot will probably get the most use out of Haste/Double Attack, although I can;t understand why SE gave us 3% haste but only 2% Double Attack, when Haste is always better even on a 1:1 scale. Also take into consideration of what you're going to be solo'ing. There's a possibility that AF1 pants will provide more more Pet Dmg than the pants will Smn Dmg.

But melee'ing in (Turban, goliard, swift belt, nashira, and these pants) 17% haste, on top of (Brutal, Pole Grip and these legs) 9% Double Attack, you're looking at a decent solo build, with Hasso putting you up to 27% haste, and using Hastega for 42% haste, then swapping to Ifrit for 3 Minute Increments for another 12% Double Attack with his Favor. That's 42% Haste, and 21% Double Attack while solo'ing.
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#16 Oct 29 2009 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Well i won't say movement speed is only a tank stat. I love having my gaiters because with sprinters boots effect on I can run to HNM camps faster lol. Also running around town or a zone fast is a time saver and very good if you need to put distance between you and a mob. That said if you think you'll have a chance at gaiter's no point in getting these 8% legs.

This is a tough choice because it looks like my pup and bst may both benefit more from these pants and augments, but i'll wait about 3 days after the update to decide which job to get them for. In order of what i like looks wise its:

Dragon pants > pup/bst pants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate mail DD pants


those DD pants that pld and drg can wear look so terrible lol.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 9:55pm by shadowkind
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-Kairos lvl300 petmaster Caitsith
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* *****, please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#17 Oct 30 2009 at 3:00 AM Rating: Default
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Please SE if you read these forums...Please add Pet magic attack augment. I have merited and made a magic build for my smn. Please don't let us down. It makes no sense why you wouldn't add that stat on the augments. There is every other important stat for melee and for pets. If they add that on the pants then I will get them for smn no questions asked. If not...i don't know if i can justify them for my smn, which makes me sad/frustrated.
#18 Oct 30 2009 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the best use I could make of these pants for my SMN would be to turn them into a melee piece. I will very likely eventually do that, when I feel like turning the other augment items into melee pieces as well.

However, for now, I'm considering just turning them into movement+8%/PDT-4% idle pants for my other mages. They might get some use on SMN as this, too.

The Pet: Accuracy is no match for our AF pants. The Attack I consider not worth it. The Store TP is almost insignificant. And if summoning skill works as I believe it to, the Macc+7 isn't enough.

I think the only thing that could change my mind would be if the Elemental Siphon+20 works as a +20% boost and not as +20 MP. In that case, I'd maybe get the Elemental Siphon and Pet: Macc+7.
#19 Oct 30 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
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If the elemental siphon turns out to be 20% i may consider it. If the effect was that good then I could leave an elemental out to get gains in mp instead of coming in at just above breaking even outside of day/weather. I'd walk around with some avatar out all the time if that's the case.
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* *****, please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#20 Oct 30 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Default
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I already go plus with elemental siphon with my merits and gear. Doesn't do me much good since they never cast the correct spell in time. (They may cast AM, while the mob dies, or may cast cure V, but when the player dies)
#21 Oct 30 2009 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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lol. Maybe your spirits are just rebellious or something, I never have that much trouble getting them to do things. But i was just thinking it would be entertaining to walk around with a spirit following you to regain mp and play body guard as opposed to having to see carby's ugly tail all the time when you look back.
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-Kairos lvl300 petmaster Caitsith
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* *****, please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#22 Oct 31 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm thinking of goin with Pet: "Store TP +8"/"Subtle Blow+8" Pet: Accuracy +7 Ranged Accuracy +7 for a Avatar melee piece so they feed less TP but still get some acc from my legs when soloing and macro the AF pants in for Blood pacts
#23 Oct 31 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Default
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shadowkind wrote:
lol. Maybe your spirits are just rebellious or something, I never have that much trouble getting them to do things. But i was just thinking it would be entertaining to walk around with a spirit following you to regain mp and play body guard as opposed to having to see carby's ugly tail all the time when you look back.


I've been playing with that thought a while, but I usually end up using carby anyway. I'm simply too lazy to keep track of when siphon should be used to keep the MP filled and like just walking around.

In theory using dark spirit as guard could sleepga aggro, unless it of course uses one of the less useful spells.

On the topic of spirits I was trying something new out with light spirit. We all know (I hope) that assaulting resets attack timer, and is useful to do during AM to start the timer before the spell goes off. However I tried retreat on light spirit instead. With my gear (pretty good, but can't remember details) I got the feeling that it more or less managed to cast a spell 18-20 seconds after a retreat, which I think was faster than when I let it work alone. Still have no idea where the fluctuations are coming from in time. Lag? Spells not ready (what is recast on say haste anyway? more than 20 seconds?
#24 Oct 31 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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+5 cure pot is very enticing but I'm probably going +20 siphon/8 movement so I can use it for my WHM moving around set and SMN idling set.

Though I may switch out +20 siphon if the +20 is actually +20mp and not 20% as I'm expecting.
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#25 Nov 08 2009 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
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This augment update isnt the best, so we actually have to put alot more thought into what we pick this time around.

Now Im thinking about MP+25 -4emn with movment speed 8. at least id be able to get away from a mob in time while my avatar sis getting beat... no wait.... I mean is distracting the mob.

But the ES +20 seems good as well... Guess ill gauge it and see when i get to the point where im about to pick my pants and augments.
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